Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: lilly on November 03, 2005, 03:47:43 pm
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I am interested in both spas. Can anyone help me with the differences between them? The HS is a little more money but the Artesian guy keeps pitching more pumps...help!!
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The dealership I worked at sold both of those. Which models are you looking at?
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100% No-Bypass Filtration, that's the key...that's the key!
Terminator
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The Vanguard from HS and I forget the name of the Artesian...it was just a bit smaller model if that helps!
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Single MotoMassage and DX MotoMassage, another piece of the puzzle.
Terminator
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Can you elaborate on the moto massage things? Also, the HS guy said his tub had "better" foam?
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I'd think a wet test would settle this pretty quick.
The HS has the moto massage wich some folks love, others hate. ...er, rather don't prefer. I shoud lsay. Personally I liked it, but the tub overall was not the right one for me and my wife. You shoud try it though, it is definetly worth the time to check out.
Better foam, must mean he feels the quality of the foam insulation is superior.
??
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Can you elaborate on the moto massage things? Also, the HS guy said his tub had "better" foam?
Yes ma'am, I'll be happy to.
The MotoMassage is the most unique jet in the spa industry and, arguably, the most popular jet ever. In the standard single Moto configuration, a stream of water "paints" up and down your spine, giving you a top-to-bottom massage. The 4 vertical holes create a slight pulsing sensation as the water passes through.
In the DX (Double) Moto configuration, 2 streams of water traverse the length of your back targeting the large muscles. It provides a massage like no other jet in the industry.
They are only available on HotSpring Spas.
As far as foam, that is one of the least items I would be concerned with. Artesian is a good quality spa that will last you many years. The HotSpring Vanguard is a great spa that will last you a lifetime.
Good luck with whichever one is best for you. :)
Terminator
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I don't sell either, but AFTER wet testing both you still are torn, I would lean to the HS. What is it Term, 700,000? people can't be wrong!
I think that foam issue is that HS uses "closed cell" foam, Artesian "open cell" foam. Closed cell foam wont absorb moisture as readily as open cell will.
As a Sundance dealer I worry more about HS than Artesian. With HS quality and reputation for taking care of their customers, they are tough to sell against.
Good Luck
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Edited due to salesdvl informing the board that Artesian does indeed use closed cell foam, which is a good thing. :)
Terminator
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I would lean to the HS. What is it Term, 700,000? people can't be wrong!
Actually they have sold 700,000 tubs, which means that at an average of two family members per tub, carry the three, about 'Millions' of people can't be wrong.
Give or take.
;)
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I thought Hotspring was the only one that used closed cell.
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I thought Hotspring was the only one that used closed cell.
Is that true? Surely not in this day and age.
Terminator
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They are both great tubs. Blow off all the sales jargon, and go with the tub that feels better to you. If you like the feel of both tubs then go with which ever dealer you feel more comfortable with. I chose an Artesian (Piper Glen) over a HS or a Caldera (the HS dealer also sold Caldera) because it was a better fit for me. Don't get caught up in marketing hype. For example, the type of foam used is not going to be as important as how well it insulates. Does closed cell insulate better then open cell. I haven't got a clue, but then you would also need to take into account the weight of the foam, and how much is used. I have not noticed that my Piper Glen has any problem holding in heat, but I'm certain that the same would be said about HS. As to the number of jets, the number of pumps, or the HP of the pumps, doesn't necessarily have a lot to do with the quality of the message you will get. I'll admit being a over clocking gear head type I was intrigued by the PG's use of 5 pumps. Does the fact that the PG uses more pumps mean you'll get a better message then in a HS, NO . Is the Moto message in the HS hands down the best way of doing things, NO.. Try them both, and then trust your own judgement. They are both good tubs, as are many others that are discussed on these boards.
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Well, you certainly are getting a lot of sales pitches here. As an Arteisan Dealer and a Service Company of both brands, all I will tell you is wet test. See the difference for yourself and decide which tub is really the best for you and your family. They are both fabulous companies. Let your back, legs, shoulders and neck decide and not the type of foam sprayed behind your cabinet. I think you will be surprised. Goodluck and enjoy the hot water. Dave.
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Bob,
Well said. Nice post! Everyone is different and has a different reason for a purchasing a spa. When narrowing down your search, try before you buy. Dave.
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Well, you certainly are getting a lot of sales pitches here.
??? From who?
Hymbaw doesn't have a horse in this race and that's the only post I would consider to be a pitch.
I'm sure not pitching spas up in Michigan, just trying to answer the nice lady's questions. ???
Terminator
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Hey Terminator,
Boy, you jumped on that one fast. I was talking about you, but in complimentary way. I can see you are a very good salesman and never stop selling, probably selling spas in your sleep. Keep up the good work and keep posting you photos. Dave.
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Terminator - I have to agree with Dave, your reply while informative did come off to me as a sales pitch. Not in a No money down, what do I have to do to put you in this tub today kind of way, but the saleman was there none the less. I certianly understand being biased, when you really believe in the product you sell, particularly when its a product as respected as HS. But comments like, 'thats a good spa, it'll last you for years, but mine will last you for a life time', just come off as hype. No doub't HS is a reliable tub, and yes it may or may not outlast other tubs, but 'for the rest of your life',that my friend is pure salesmanship.
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When I first viewed this thread, I was at work and started writing a whole bunch of stuff due to the salesmanship aspect of the answers. I got busy and did't post.
Thankfully Bob and NJDave came by and drewstar gave good advice. Artesian is a great tub from a consumer's standpoint and seems to be as equal as HS or any company in taking care of their customers. They haven't sold as many tubs but they also don't spend the $$$ to do infomercials or that widely known. The truth is all tubs can break and HS is no exception.
In my market, HS can't touch the Artesian on a price to feature basis. Does it have the same value - only time will tell. 10 years down the line IF my tub never breaks - then yes it is the same value. In 2004 I got a price of $7400 for a Vanguard which was $700 more than my tub and it had less than my tub. Salesman even tried counting the circ pump as a "pump"
I understand that the HS koolaide is a strong brew but other tubs are just as good and may even be better on an individual basis. And as far as Sundance ... well, I won't go there! ;D
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I don't sell either, but AFTER wet testing both you still are torn, I would lean to the HS. What is it Term, 700,000? people can't be wrong!
I think that foam issue is that HS uses "closed cell" foam, Artesian "open cell" foam. Closed cell foam wont absorb moisture as readily as open cell will.
As a Sundance dealer I worry more about HS than Artesian. With HS quality and reputation for taking care of their customers, they are tough to sell against.
Good Luck
OK. McDonalds has sold billions of burgers but that doesnt make them the best. It just means that billions of idiots have bought them.
NEXT, Artesian does not use open cell foam. Thats exactly how people get misinformed.
OK, I'm done. thank you for listening.
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I am strickly a happy hot tub consumer/user & not a dealer (thank god! :P). We wet tested both Watkins (e.g. Hotsprings, Caldera, Tiger River), D1, and Artesian and chose an Artesian Diamond. Our view is always, when making a major purchase (car, house, hot tub, fine anything) go for the best quality you can afford. That was our motto in selecting what to wet test. We excluded Marquis simple because we felt the jets were very under powered and therapy hydromessage was important to us. We liked all the tubs we tested and simple went with what felt best. Why include a non-quality brand in your wet test? If you are chosing between Hot Springs and Artesian you can not go wrong. Get what feels best.
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Actually they have sold 700,000 tubs, which means that at an average of two family members per tub, carry the three, about 'Millions' of people can't be wrong.
Give or take.
;)
As a counterpoint, GM sells the most cars in the US, but I doubt anyone would categorize them as the best or most desirable...........numbers do not necessarily equal superiority.
Oops, should have read devils post first.
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Sales pitch? I simply made an effort to help counterbalance lilly's obvious frustration with the Artesian salesman's relentless monotony of "pitching more pumps...help!!" I was trying to provide her with a variety of features that HotSpring offers which might help her to make an informed decision regarding the best spa for her. The only time I really elaborated on any aspect was at her request.
Yes, I do have an opinion on which spa will last 20 years or more, that's pretty obvious. When the day comes that I run across another brand that's still running and looks good 25 years after purchase, I'll consider that spa to be in the same league as a HotSpring. Just haven't seen one yet.
McDonald's sells tons of burgers because they are CHEAP and they put little toys in the bag. HotSpring sells tons of spas yet they are very EXPENSIVE. Most brands of spas cost less, have more jets, have wang-dang-doodles and woo-hoos on them, yet HS year in and year out extends their market share lead. I imagine it's because they build a pretty dang good spa! :)
I'm glad to hear that Artesian uses closed-cell foam in their spas, I couldn't imagine any serious spa maker not doing so. They make a fine spa, nothing wrong with them at all.
Terminator
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I thought Hotspring was the only one that used closed cell.
Not true!
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If you wettest the two its a no brainer! In my unbiased opinion its the HS hands down for comfort, reliability,and overall customer satisfaction.
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Hey terminator, don't let the turkeys get you down - I've been impressed with your ability to not act like a salesman. You make it clear you sell them, and state what you like without bashing everyone else. I was amused by the subtle 'lifetime' comment. But then, I bought a HS and hope it's true....
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Thank you very much Ritz, that's one of the nicest compliments I've ever received. I am truly appreciative and I hope you enjoy your spa for many, many years.
Terminator
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McDonald's sells tons of burgers because they are CHEAP and they put little toys in the bag. HotSpring sells tons of spas yet they are very EXPENSIVE. Most brands of spas cost less, have more jets, have wang-dang-doodles and woo-hoos on them, yet HS year in and year out extends their market share lead. I imagine it's because they build a pretty dang good spa! :)
Good Mcdonalds point! I had a guy the other day comparing a cheap brand to mine. I asked him to give me an example of any pruduct where cheaper is better? He couldnt think of any.I do believe Hs would be violating a copy right law if they added a "wang-dang doodle" as I believe its being used on the Stuper duper custom falls apart model!
They could possibly add a woo hoo though , but that would have been appropriate only in the "sex in the hottub" thread.
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Good point spaman!
Terminator
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:-[ :-[ :-[McDonald's sells tons of burgers because they are CHEAP and they put little toys in the bag. HotSpring sells tons of spas yet they are very EXPENSIVE.
Terminator
Who ever said you had be smart to be wealthy? ;)
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Wow! After my posts yesterday I logged off and haven't kept up with all the helpful information that everyone gave me! I really appreciate it!
As to people getting upset about the "sales pitches" I PERSONALLY don't mind. Hearing from lot's of salespeople as well as the owners of spas gives you a ton of information to make a decision on.
I am still torn and I am not really comfortable getting into a spa on the salesfloor to try it out.
Also, both dealers have been around for years (I think) but one of them has alot more locations...if that makes any difference? If anyone else has anything to help aid my decision I would really appreciate it! Thanks...
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Wow! After my posts yesterday I logged off and haven't kept up with all the helpful information that everyone gave me! I really appreciate it!
As to people getting upset about the "sales pitches" I PERSONALLY don't mind. Hearing from lot's of salespeople as well as the owners of spas gives you a ton of information to make a decision on.
I am still torn and I am not really comfortable getting into a spa on the salesfloor to try it out.
Also, both dealers have been around for years (I think) but one of them has alot more locations...if that makes any difference? If anyone else has anything to help aid my decision I would really appreciate it! Thanks...
Lilly, many stores have a private area, or will be willing to acomodate you after hours, so that people are not walking in. Wet Testing is very common and you shouldn't feel uncomfortable. But everyone has different comfort zones. However, I would give it serious considerstion to wet testing as the jets on these two tubs are significantly different and could help you make up your mind.
:)
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Yes, drewstar makes a good point in that most spa dealers should have a private area where you can try the spas out in comfort. Our stores have private rooms with a selection of 5 spas available to you. If you want to try a spa that's not in the mood room, we will meet you after hours so that you can have privacy. That's how we do it, anyway.
Terminator
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Who ever said you smart to be wealthy? ;)
Evidently someone with poor grammar skills. They were probably very wealthy. ;D
Terminator
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Touche'. I rewrote it a couple of times and mistyped it afterall.
How 'bout: "Ya aint gotta have no book learnin to be rich."
Thats how they'd say it back in Kentucky where my folks are from.
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Touche'. I rewrote it a couple of times and mistyped it afterall.
How 'bout: "Ya aint gotta have no book learnin to be rich."
Thats how they'd say it back in Kentucky where my folks are from.
My ol' Pappy's favorite words of wisdom were "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is." He was right.
Terminator
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In case you didn't notice, I said "I THINK the foam issue is"
Lilly said the HS dealer said they have "better" foam. Universally true or not, I would bet that is what he was pitching.
HS uses 100% closed cell foam.
It odd that nowhere on Artesians web site or in there brochure they mention "closed cell"
Sundance doesn't mention it either. Why, because they use a combination of closed and open cell foam. To pitch our "closed cell foam" would be deceptive because a good portion is open cell.
So , if I was "pitching" I was pitching against my own horse. Which Terminator so graciously pointed out, wasn't in this race!!!
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Lilly - I can fully understand your reluctance to wet test. Despite the fact that it is undoubtedly the best way to determine which spa is best for you, few of us are comfortable with the thought of standing around a show room in our bathing suit. As a few others have mentioned most dealers either have privacy rooms or will let you wet test after hours, which does take away much of the anxiety. To push the concept even further you should do a round of wet testing, narrow down your list, and the wet test some more. If you'd like to read up on taking this line to an extreme search out some of duffmans threads. Even after wet testing you may still be undecided as to which is best for you. I've read many posts along these lines, "I liked the seating in tub A best, but the jets were better in tub B, while tub C was almost as good as A & B but cost $1000.00 less" The point is that for many there will be no perfect tub that has every thing exactly how we want it. Accept that there will be trade offs and decide which are more important to you. Now that I have championed wet testing to a degree, I'll be honest with you and let you know that the only tub I wet tested was the Artesian. I dry tested the HS and Calderas, but when I asked about wet testing, I got the impression I was somehow putting the dealer out. I'm not much of a shopper, and it doesn't take much to put me off. Would it have been in my best interest to wet test the HS, and possibly some others along with the Artesian. Definitely, and if the HS dealer had been someone like Term, I might be sitting in a Grandee right now (well I don't actually mean right now, I don't think even HS has the option to use a computer while your in the tub ::) ). I'm more comfortable doing some research, finding what I want and going for it, the idea of spending countless weeks agonizing over little details is just not for me. There may have been a better tub out there for me, but I'm perfectly happy with the one I chose. After all were are buying these things to relax, not to get stressed out over.
Term - if you in any way took my comments as bashing, I do apologize for they were not meant that way. My report card in Kindergarten said I don't always play well with other children, and then there were those years in the Marine Corps...well you get the idea. You are most definitely an asset to this board and I enjoy reading your posts. I'll agree that you are one of the more restrained dealers on the board, never hiding the fact that you are in fact a dealer, while not coming on to strong with the sales pitch either.
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Oh for Heaven's sake Bob, no way did I take anything personally. :) This is all fun and games. I'm sorry if I offended you (or anyone) on here. I truly do try to have a good time on this forum, I think it is a great place full of great people looking to help each other out. I want everyone to enjoy themselves as I have always felt the calling to be hospitable to people.
I consider you a great asset to this board my friend. You share your experiences as an owner, something I can't do. Please don't ever worry about hurting my feelings or me taking something the wrong way. I'm thick headed and thick skinned. :D
Terminator
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I feel another group hug coming on! ;)
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Oh for Heaven's sake Bob.....Terminator
Oh for Heaven's sake... Who says that??? (besides you & my Grandma) ;D ;D
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Oh for Heaven's sake... Who says that??? (besides you & my Grandma) ;D ;D
Maybe he IS your Grandma ... ever hear of cross dressing! ;D
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Maybe he IS your Grandma ... ever hear of cross dressing! ;D
Nope, I'm his Daddy. And Rayman's, too!
Terminator
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My ol' Pappy's favorite words of wisdom were "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is." He was right.
Terminator
I have always liked the saying from Jossie Wales "Senator don't pi$$ down my back and try to tell me its raining"