Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Frankie25 on November 17, 2004, 11:30:56 am
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I have been looking at spas for the past month and thought that I had narrowed it down to Sundance and Master Spas. We went to our Master spa dealer one more time last night to look at the LSX again. I think that I like the Master spa more but I am still a little concerned because I have not heard much about them and the dealer just picked the line up this year. It seems to be a pretty good spa with the LED lighting, the 4 pumps, and the number of jets and we really liked the extreme seat. But another concern of mine is the price, for the LSX it is going to be $9500 with LED lighting, cover, chemicals, lifter, steps, and delivery. This is about $1000 more than the Sundance Cameo we were looking at that has the aromotherapy, cover, lifter, delivery, and chemicals.
I know I posted a question the other day about this but we just want to make sure we don't spend an extra $1000 and regret it. Can anyone give me any advice on if Master Spas are worth the extra money and what any experiences are with them???
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Frankie25,
Sundance as 4 pumps too. It has two therapy pumps, an air blower, and a circulation pump. That is the same 4 types of pumps the Master spa uses. Jets mean absolutely nothing in the spa purchase. It is the massage you are getting from the Jets.
I don’t think any professional on this board is going to say the Master is better than the Sundance. Every professional knows the quality and reputation of the Sundance, and it is leaps and bounds ahead of Master.
I find it quite amazing that the Sundance is less expensive.
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I wish "pumps" was used just to describe vessels that move water to the massage jets!
HTM
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Frankie25,
Sundance as 4 pumps too. It has two therapy pumps, an air blower, and a circulation pump. That is the same 4 types of pumps the Master spa uses. Jets mean absolutely nothing in the spa purchase. It is the massage you are getting from the Jets.
I don’t think any professional on this board is going to say the Master is better than the Sundance. Every professional knows the quality and reputation of the Sundance, and it is leaps and bounds ahead of Master.
I find it quite amazing that the Sundance is less expensive.
There is NO COMPARISON between Sundance and Master for Quality, Customer service, engineering and reputation. Sundance wins hands down!!!
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As I said in the previous post. I used to carry Master Spa and would NEVER recommend them.
Let me put it another way:
BUY THE SUNDANCE.
If the Sundance is cheaper and EVERYONE here says it is a better quality spa, then:
BUY THE SUNDANCE.
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Aw Cmon, Devil, tell us your real opinion in this matter!
No more holding back now!!!
Brewman
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Well, I just want to make sure I'm clear this time. :)
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Ive owned a Master Spas for YEARS, havent had problem at all. The LSX is an awesome spa, you should be able to get that spa down around 8600 with cover, steps, and chem kit.
Talk to windsurfdog, he has the LSX and loves it.
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Spa guy and Windsurf dog....
I know you both are proud and Happy master spa owners...and I do not doubt that your/their spas feel great...but does it bother in any way that they market their products with some very questionable programs at best.....the rebate voucher program being one ...the totally false presentation of spa expo super shows advertising many different brands of spas only to attend the show and find out it is all Master Brands...does it make you wonder at all about the integrity of how they operate
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Ya know Mendo, I feel the same way. I just wasn't sure how to say it. We did that Voucher thing and we all felt a little slimey doing it. Next Summer is the 3rd anniversary for it so we will see if anyone gets burned.
The other thing they did to us was to allow another dealer to come from out of state to display at a fairground and tell people to just call us if we had service problems. Thats pretty low.
We have many people that bought Master Spas and are happy. I just can't bring myself to advise anyone to buy one. I'm sure there were quite a few happy Yugo customers for a while too.
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I didnt do the voucher program, but do know a few folks who have gotten their money back on it. From what I know, not all dealers are involved, its an option. I do know some other hot tubs dealers in the area are involved who are not MS dealers with the voucher program.
All I know is Im happy with mine. If I had bought it from XXX co and was happy, thats all that matters to me.
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ISundance Cameo we were looking at that has the aromotherapy,
Both good spas, don't let this be the deciding factor, it is a worthless option. IMO
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All I know is Im happy with mine. If I had bought it from XXX co and was happy, thats all that matters to me.
And I think thats great. You & WindsurfDog are good advocates. I just look at it from the other side. When you have hundreds of tubs in the field you can get a different opinion very easily.
But going back to Frankie. Again, if the Sundance is cheaper and the test soaks are equal, whats the confusion. I wouldn't suggest trying to talk yourself into justifying the $1000 extra for the MasterSpa. Yes, the ONE seat in the LSX is awesome (assuming the jets stay in place).
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I have been looking at spas for the past month and thought that I had narrowed it down to Sundance and Master Spas.
I know I posted a question the other day about this but we just want to make sure we don't spend an extra $1000 and regret it. Can anyone give me any advice on if Master Spas are worth the extra money and what any experiences are with them???
I've seen individuals who have come to these sites and said they own a Hot Spring, Marquis or Sundance and have had problems and would not recommend that brand. I look at that as a sample of one as I know they are very good spas and there are always exceptions even if a spa maker is known to make a quality product. At the same time, if someone owns a spa and says its great that is also a sample of one so the fact they've had no issues does not necessarily mean its a top notch brand, it simply means that spa has worked well. I look more at the experiences of the many (including, but certainly not limited to, the spa professionals on these sites) and for that reason I'd take Sundance over Master.
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I look more at the experiences of the many (including, but certainly not limited to, the spa professionals on these sites) and for that reason I'd take Sundance over Master.
Dude, nicely put. Unbiased. To the point. I like it.
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Frankie25,
Sundance as 4 pumps too. It has two therapy pumps, an air blower, and a circulation pump. That is the same 4 types of pumps the Master spa uses. Jets mean absolutely nothing in the spa purchase. It is the massage you are getting from the Jets.
I don’t think any professional on this board is going to say the Master is better than the Sundance. Every professional knows the quality and reputation of the Sundance, and it is leaps and bounds ahead of Master.
I find it quite amazing that the Sundance is less expensive.
I assume your are a customer and not in the business. One of the pinacles of sales is knowing the competition. Something I believe you are lacking. The LSX has Three massage pumps and a seperate filtration pump. No air pumps. As far as jets meaning nothing in the spa purchase (did this make any shoppers cringe) See "I have to ask my Manager". I love when some one posts on this site, the question "which tub is best" Because anyone with out a hidden agenda (or just willing to help) will understand that there is not one hot tub that is perfect for every one. If you say that one particular brand is "leaps and bounds" ahead of another. You have shown your true colors. If all hot tubs only had one feature, this would be a respectable judgment. However, what makes it leaps and bounds better than the other spa in aspects that suit everyone. Surely even you could see that there are features in Master that would make someperson buy one over a Master. Just as there are reasons why someone would buy a home depot spa over any of the other top 10. Please keep this sight a non-biased place where consumers can go to get accurate and helpful information.
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Other than home depot, what spas are in the top ten and why?
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Other than home depot, what spas are in the top ten and why?
Wait....hear that? Listen very closely and you will hear it.......
Yep, a can of worms is being opened! ;) ;D
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Who makes the Depot tubs in the U.S.? In the great white north its MAAX that is behind the Depot brand which is Nahani or something like that.
HTM
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Ok, I will give you that they offer 3 therapy pumps and 1 circulation pump. So Sundance uses 4 pumps too. 2 therapy pumps, one air blower, and a circulation pump. My apologies for getting the air blower thing wrong. Read all of the posts on this thread. Is there more than two people saying the Master Spa is better?
To answer your question, no there is no feature on the Master that would make me want to purchase that brand. Go knock on the cabinet. Did it fall off?
Based on reputation alone, the Sundance is better. Based on the amount of satisfied customers Sundance is better. It is also better because in general they have better dealers than Master at least here in the Northeast. Do I need to go on?
This isn’t a non-biased place, just look at the people that post on here. Hotspring, D1, Marquis dealers, Hotspring, Sundance, Marquis owners. We tout what we believe is better. Unfortunately, Master isn’t better.
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Ok, I will give you that they offer 3 therapy pumps and 1 circulation pump. So Sundance uses 4 pumps too. 2 therapy pumps, one air blower, and a circulation pump. My apologies for getting the air blower thing wrong. Read all of the posts on this thread. Is there more than two people saying the Master Spa is better?
To answer your question, no there is no feature on the Master that would make me want to purchase that brand. Go knock on the cabinet. Did it fall off?
Based on reputation alone, the Sundance is better. Based on the amount of satisfied customers Sundance is better. It is also better because in general they have better dealers than Master at least here in the Northeast. Do I need to go on?
This isn’t a non-biased place, just look at the people that post on here. Hotspring, D1, Marquis dealers, Hotspring, Sundance, Marquis owners. We tout what we believe is better. Unfortunately, Master isn’t better.
Playing devil's advocate here: does it matter that the customer likes the Master spa more?
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You would think. Unfortunately Chris is going to tell them what is best for them. Everybody on this site is caught up with lists. They all talk about the "top ten", "top three", whatever, assuming that any of the tubs represented by those manufacturers would be perfect for any person no matter the circumstances. The reason I brought up Home Depot (Image Spas by the way) is that there are in fact reasons why I would purchase one over a Master. There are reasons why I would purchase a Hot Springs, Sundance or Jacuzzi over a Master. But there are also several reasons why I would purchase a Master over any of the other brands. These "reasons" are called features. These features are what sepperate the different brands. Untill they make a hot tub with EVERY feature in it, there is not one tub that will be perfect for every one. If you can decide what the features are that are important to you and find the tub that best meets your needs, then you have found the perfect hot tub...FOR YOU! However, this industry gets a bad rap, and can be very confusing to work with because you have people like Chris who will tell you that certain features aren't important (ie JETS). I have no problem walking a prospect if I don't feel that I can meet his/her needs completely. Do you have a problem with that Chris? I have been scarce around this forum for the past month. Fortunatly, I have been busy. Selling. Chris, you seem to have plenty of time on your hands, so I expect a lengthy reply.
Cheers to all.
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Good posts, huh and zaphod!
When I was looking, I began to wish that I could "build my own" with the features that I liked from ALL of the tubs I looked at. I really loved the waterfall in the Jacuzzi. Too bad I floated really badly, and, oh yeah, the dealer went out of business the week after the wet test! I learned it from the LA Spa dealer who admitted to me that I had dodged a serious bullet, she had known the Jacuzzi dealer! I loved my LA dealer, she grew up in a small town close to where I grew up! Anyway, we could talk for hours! The Sundance Altamar lounge fit the best, which I thought I just had to have. The HotSpring, well...I liked the therapy the best. It was the least "gadgety" tub I looked at.
I, as an informed buyer, thanks to this board (and a couple of others) I chose the tub best for me! I didn't look at Master or Marquis. The Jacuzzi guy sold Master (I didn't know that until I wet tested at his store across town from me. I guess I should have realized something was wrong when there were never any employees at the store closest to me.) The Sundance dealer had just picked up the Marquis line and would really only talk to me about Sundance.
If the Master is the best, go for it! Windsurfdog loves his!
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I have to get in on this. My own experience consisted of my favourite tub AND the dealer I felt good dealing. It eventually came down to two tubs, Hydropool or Beachcomber. Both were affordable but my confidence in my dealer tipped the scale bigtime. I amthe proud owner ( 1 month) of a Hydropool Serenity 6000 Elite Plus .THE BEST TUB FOR ME!!! Review to follow shortly. bobhol
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Ok, I will give you that they offer 3 therapy pumps and 1 circulation pump. So Sundance uses 4 pumps too. 2 therapy pumps, one air blower, and a circulation pump.
As a dealer, I have always had issue with salespeople that count the air blower as a "pump" to make themselves sound like they have more. Maybe it's because I'm also in the swimming pool business but to me they are different. Even when I carried spas that had blowers we NEVER tried to jack up the pump count by blurring the two.
I prefer to call a spade a spade. Sundance does not have 4 pumps. They have 2 jet pumps and 1 air blower, and 1 circulation pump. Which shouldn't even be in the count to begin with because when a customer asks "How many pumps?", they are not asking about a circ pump.
Thank you all for listening. I shall be exiting the soapbox now.
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I go away on business for 1 week and look what happens! ;D
Frankie,
Please take all posts in this thread into consideration but here is the bottom line:
You are preparing to make a decision that will result in a major debit to your bank account and a major credit to your quality of life. You should have set a budget and, if so, you will be able to find a spa within that budget. You've narrowed it down to 2 tubs, one of which I own. If you have read my review on the LSX, you will get a very good understanding of my feelings for the tub's therapy.....I'm extremely pleased. Having had the tub since 7/11/04, I have had ZERO issues with it.....it has been an absolute pleasure to maintain. I estimate electricity usage to be within $20-$40/month.....after a year's use, I'll know more about that.
Frankie, I suggest you re-read this thread with these points in mind:
1) Forget all the talk about Master's marketing philosophies.....they have nothing to do with the therapy or the construction of their product.
2) Take comments' like stuart's "There is NO COMPARISON between Sundance and Master for Quality, Customer service, engineering and reputation. Sundance wins hands down!!!" with a grain of salt. He has an axe to grind with Master Spas and this occasionally spills over into his comments. Both Sundance and Master Spas compare very favorably. To couch statements with the superlatives that he used is misleading as it addresses emotions instead of facts. Please DO listen to stuart when he is not Master bashing because he is a VERY knowledgable and enjoyable netizen at this sight (....luv you, bubba stu.... :))
3) Salesdvl said that everyone here says Sundance is better........hate to break it to ya, pal, but you are wrong again......and to think I even pm'ed you to let you know I was leaving town for a week.....I feel so violated.....(and I luv you too, man...... ;D)
Frankie, whether you buy an LSX or an Optima/Cameo is of no consequence to me or anyone else on this board.....YOU are the only one that matters. If you have been looking for only a month, I suggest you look longer and not rush into a purchase. If you feel you have all the input you need and you truly have narrowed it down to the two products, then choose the one with the most favorable therapy or choose the one that will fit better into your budget.....you can't go wrong with either manufacturer. I got my LSX for around $8000 with the accessories listed in my review.
Best of luck to you and let us know how it goes......
8)
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We have many people that bought Master Spas and are happy. I just can't bring myself to advise anyone to buy one.
Windy, I am trying to play it straight. Many times I have said that it is ultimately the choce of the buyer to decide where the best value is for them.
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And I think thats great. You & WindsurfDog are good advocates. I just look at it from the other side. When you have hundreds of tubs in the field you can get a different opinion very easily.
But going back to Frankie. Again, if the Sundance is cheaper and the test soaks are equal, whats the confusion. I wouldn't suggest trying to talk yourself into justifying the $1000 extra for the MasterSpa. Yes, the ONE seat in the LSX is awesome (assuming the jets stay in place).
Windy part deux,
Here I credit you on your mission, but again I am simply trying to voice an opinion to help Frankie. If S & M are the same and S is way cheaper.....
( Let me just say I have no opinion on S&M as any other topic) :)
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and to think I even pm'ed you to let you know I was leaving town for a week.....I feel so violated.....(and I luv you too, man...... ;D)
8)[/quote]
And finally, Windy the final chapter, ( I wish I knew how you all put multiple quotes in the same reply)
I can't believe you blabbed that you PM'd me. I feel cheap and used now. That was supposed to be just between us. ;)
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I feel cheap and used now.
And WSD previously said:
.....I feel so violated.....
salesy,
Between you feeling 'cheap and used' and me feeling 'violated', I'd say it sounds as if we're having a pretty good time.... ;D
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And WSD previously said:
salesy,
Between you feeling 'cheap and used' and me feeling 'violated', I'd say it sounds as if we're having a pretty good time.... ;D
WindyBob buddy!
Where the heck have you been?! We were starting to miss you.....
Hey, considering my poor experiences with master and how I feel about them don't you think I've been pretty sedate on this topic? ;) I was trying not to violate you to much, you know.... the truce and all.....? ;D 8)
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And WSD previously said:
salesy,
Between you feeling 'cheap and used' and me feeling 'violated', I'd say it sounds as if we're having a pretty good time.... ;D
I'm jealous, it's been years since I've felt cheap, used, and violated. LOL ::)
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bubba stu,
You are and always will be DA MAN! Yeah, I was in Orlando for the week for work (poor, poor me ;D) and I certainly missed you's guys as well.
Truce violations?......What truce violations?....... ;)
Naaah, you have your story to tell and I certainly feel your opinions should not only be heard but should be heeded......I'm just trying to 'tone them down' a bit for you as well as voice my excellent MS experiences thus far. Keep up the good work, m'man...... 8)
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Dude, nicely put. Unbiased. To the point. I like it.
Nicley said.
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Are you still happy with your LSX? I am down to choosing between the lSX for $10,500 (incl. stereo, delivery, ozonator, cover, lifter, chemicals) and the SD Optima for $9300 (same package but no stereo.) The Master felt better (I could only wet test the 800 so I couldn't try the extreme therapy seat, but what power!), but my SD dealer is established and I feel like they will be here to help out, whereas w/ Master I would be on my own (brand new dealer, rented some space in a warehouse, etc, does not seem to be an ongoing business).
Paul
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Wow, Paul, you are certainly doing your homework on the board! I had completely forgotten this thread and it was enjoyable reading it again.....especially the violated part!
On the serious side, yes, I'm completely happy with my LSX. It has been absolutely issue free and my infatuation with the therapy continues to this day. I will disagree with salesdvl's comment that the tub has 1 awesome seat....IMHO, it has 3 awesome seats including the the xtreme therapy, the corner/shoulder seat and the lounge.....I usually visit all three during my soaks. And I don't know why salesy said "assuming the jets stay in place".....I haven't experienced "wandering" jets in my tub but I guess he has run into a few.
Take your time--wet test, wet test, wet test. If you are like me and you find the LSX offers the best therapy for you, there is absolutely no reason to buy anything else unless you are not satisfied with your dealer, which is an important issue. I actually gave the therapy more weight in my decision because my closest MS dealer at that time was 200+ miles away. I bought it from him anyway because I trusted him and really liked the tub. Now an MS dealer has located within 30 miles and he has been wonderful to agree to service my tub should anything be needed.
Good luck! 8)
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I love this forum guys...I've never been so entertained at work and still feel like I'm doing something productive, but hey ;)
Anyways, Frankie, buddy,pal, trust me whatever decision you make is the right one for you...When you're soakin in that water, what you paid for that hot water doesn't even matter.
There is a lot of professional opinion in this board and yes, of course I'm going to say SD is the better of the two. Through my own research and wet-testing, SD definately throws the master's features to the dogs.
-filtration
-jet technology
-warranty
-reputation
-ease of maintenance
-design
-industry firsts (a big list too)
the list goes on and on, so while your soakin stay a lil longer, okay im gettin carried away... 8)