Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: SS spas on September 21, 2005, 04:13:00 pm
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Who here can tell me the difference between sundance and arctic? Which one is the best.....and why.... 8)
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There are MANY differences between those two spas but both have satisfied customers here. I'd suggest you shop each and wet test. That way, when people give you their plusses and minuses on each you'll have a reference to compare your thoughts.
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Is it true that sundance clamps all of there jet fittings and has a new 2005 microfiltration filter that filters down to 5 microns and dosent have to be replaced but like once a year?
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Yes there is a difference between Sundance and Arctic. Two different types of insulation. Arctic does a "Heat Lock" where Sundance does full foam. Arctic has access panels on 4 sides to upgrade (add more jets) and fix the spa after it's installed in your home (most importantly after your warranty is up). But you still need to wet test the spa. What is best for one customer isn’t the best for another.
I own 4 Arctic Spas stores in various states. We can fill any spa in the store for you to test, as we feel that an Arctic will give you the best therapy of any spa. Arctic has been producing its own jets that are berringless, which improves the pressure per jet.
If you have any further questions about Arctic Spas please ask!
Again WET TEST!!!
Michael
www.HeavenlyTimes.com
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Please be careful SS on the sales pitch of adding more jets. Most quality spas are designed to offer specific jet pressure based on numbers of jets and HP. Once additional jets are added, you are left with either a weak therapeutic result or the cost of buying a new pump(s) to compensate.
As for Arctic offering you "the best therapy of any spa ::) ", again, please be careful of salespeople overselling their product. Actually, HotSprings is the best...no wait...that was last week....D1 is actually...no wait...Hydropool!
We're all the BEST SS! Don't you just HATE that word? :-/
Steve
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We're all the BEST SS! Don't you just HATE that word? :-/
Steve
Absolutely.
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Depending on what you like, Arctic could be the best. It was for us. They are both excellent brands IMHO. I tested both. Sundance Maxxus, Optima, Bahia. Arctic Tundra and Frontier. We selected the Tundra.
In my opinion Arctic uses the best feeling jets and that is truly what sold me. Their sculpted seats were extremely comfortable for us. The arm rests give you something to do with your arms and helps control float in the deeper seats. In general Arctic uses more jets that rotate than any other mfr that I found and the majority are 3" or 5" jets which are just more comfortable feeling. Their signature seat that appears in several models looks like an upside down triangle. No other mfr has a design like that with those large rotating jets up high. They really work the muscles of the traps/shoulders/neck, not just penetrate/needle it. It feels great and really helped sell us on the tub.
At this level tub, it's not about insulation, adding jets etc. It's about finding the combination of what fits and feels best. For us it was Arctic. You really need to wet test and focus on general comfort and jet feel.
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Most definitely the Marquis.....Therapy....Build Quality .....You made the wise choice ....uhhh what was the question again..... ;).......No really both are good spas, Owners and Dealers of both will naturally be partial to theirs .....Once in the back yard....You will most likely enjoy them the same ....Wet test if you can and let that and your relationship with the dealer be your guide.....
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if i were choosing all over again, I would be back down to my final choices. I tested jacuzzi, calspa, canspa, LA spas, sundance, hydro pool, arctic and a tiger river spa.
I loved every tub, im not going to lie to you, hot water and jets feel good no matter what you sit in. I found after wet testing though, that certain tubs fit me better.
I actually put a deposit on an optima, I absolutely loved it. The owner was a different story though. I also put a price lock on an arctic sumit which I felt was amazing.
A month later the new MAXXUS tub came out. I loved it and actually began searching for best price. I got one, but the local dealer somehow found out, and called the store and threatened to go to sundance and tell that he was undercutting the local store. I guess this was a no no and I couldnt get the deal. The local guy now held the cards and I really didnt like his sales tactics and the way that he screwed me out of a good deal.
The arctic was the first tub that I ever look at and really did not know that much about hot tubs. I always liked it. So I went back in sat in a tundra and the rest is history.
What are the differences, well honestly name brand, and different built, with one being heat lock and one full foam.
I said it once and ill say it again, when you are spending 10,000 on a tub, and you are sticking with a good brand name you are really arguing minor issues.
Find the tub that fits you best when you wet test, do some homework, here is a great place to start and get a feel for your local dealer. In the end, these factors will guide you to the right tub.
I agree with the last comment made, dealers and owners are partial to the brand that they have. So many will tell you what is best. Hell, I will argue that my tub is the best tub FOR ME. I think it is well designed and great quality.
Sundance has been around forever though. They make a sound product and it looks great and feels great. Dont fall victim to the great arcitc debate. Bottom line, arctic is a great product, one in which I feel can compete on the market with top brand tubs. Just dont fall into the belief that it is a superior product and most efficent. All these tubs that you are going to be looking at are all efficient and run and feel great.
Good luck, keep us posted. I am interested to see which tub you find most comfortable. Dont let price steer you away from the one that you like best. What is expensive right now can be paid off over time.
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Depending on what you like, Arctic could be the best. It was for us.
Again, every manufacturer has at least one customer who loves the jets and therapy they offer. Gee...I guess that makes ALL of us the best! Where have I heard THAT B4? ;)
Steve
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I love my Hydropool 625 Anniversary Edition 6 person tub. And i haven't even sat in it wet yet. I did in the Serenity 6800 is it? - and the jets were amazing. That convinced me enough to upgrade several models on spec.
Arctic design is too sculpted and constricting for my tastes - when i have friends over and want to brush against that beautiful blonde in the itty bitty I don't want to do it thru a microban armrest. But then when her husband whacks me maybe I'd want it there! All about choice!
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Would SOMEBODY (Except JA, who coined the phrase) please defing the term "Best Therapy"?
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Would SOMEBODY (Except JA, who coined the phrase) please defing the term "Best Therapy"?
How's this....
(http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/mba/lowres/mban884l.jpg)
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Now STUART knows therapy right buddy! ;D He's had years of it! ;)
Steve
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Arctic design is too sculpted and constricting for my tastes - when i have friends over and want to brush against that beautiful blonde in the itty bitty I don't want to do it thru a microban armrest. But then when her husband whacks me maybe I'd want it there! All about choice!
Nothing against what you said ;), but we are purchasing our tub for us, not for or to impress or brush against our friends. Not everyone may care for the sculpted seating, but I would recommend evaluating why you are investing in a spa and satisfy the results of that evalutaion first. If you want a party tub, then a tub with 4 sculpted corner chairs may not be for you, or you just may not like the feel. Since probably >95% of our use will just be us, I'm was looking for comfort and therapy to satisfy that use first. Arctic was it. Arctic does make less "restrictive" designs. We just happened to prefer the design/seats in the Tundra. Two deeper for me and two more shallow for her. Although because of the armrests, she can use all seats. That was something she could not do in other tubs - use all the seats.
Again it comes down to personal opinion. But regardless of what people think, none of the major mfrs I examined had the 4 corner captains chair layout of the Tundra. Darn - I forgot to check JA. ;D The Sundance Optima offers semi sculpted 4 corner seating, but nowhere near as comfortable in my opinion since it lacks any semblance of an armrest and not available with therapy levels in each of those positions with which you can equip an Arctic. If we have another couple over, no one has to wait for "the good seat".
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Would SOMEBODY (Except JA, who coined the phrase) please defing the term "Best Therapy"?
I think this would be great therapy ;D(first entry)
http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=wtb-hottub;action=display;num=1127308981
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Who here can tell me the difference between sundance and arctic? Which one is the best.....and why.... 8)
What it comes down to it no one can tell you which of these 2 brands is right for you. You may prefer a different one than either of these. I think it's to bad you are limited to just these 2 or maybe you have allready eliminated some others? I feel there are 10-15 high quality brands and 10 -15 others that are more value brands and a bunch that fall between both these levels. and there prices show the different levels, as long as we leave out the few garbage brands that have consistent trouble. Not that a value brand isn't right either, I could have 3 of the brand I chose for the price of most of thoses quality brands and mine may last as long or longer but it might not have as much HP or as many "extra's" but that may be suffieciant for alot of people, not just me. After all it is just circulating hot water and you can do that with a barrel, paddle and a fire. So to limit yourself to just 2 choices seem's to me like you will be missing something. After all another that you have not mentioned could be considerably better than either of the 2 you mentioned. I would search more because in my oppinion niether of those brands is a great value. Why, they are both overpriced and your not getting what you pay for. They are good tubs at to high a price.
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Yes when you add more jets to a spa you will decreas the amount of pressure for the other jets. That's why you can also add an additional pump for the new jets that are added.
We have done this for customers on contless occasions!
Michael
www.HeavenlyTimes.com
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We have done this for customers on contless occasions!
Countless times? So I guess you must have sold countless tubs too. Must keep the accountant busy ;)
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Please be careful SS on the sales pitch of adding more jets. Most quality spas are designed to offer specific jet pressure based on numbers of jets and HP. Once additional jets are added, you are left with either a weak therapeutic result or the cost of buying a new pump(s) to compensate.
Steve
Hey Steve, I’d like to take Bosco as an example. He’s got a Signature series Tundra - 33 jets. Two years from now, he’s buying chems at the Arctic dealer and they show him a new jet design. He likes it. He’d love to swap it in for some of his current jets and likes it so much, he wished he could add a couple in one of the seats. No problem. He’s now got 35 jets and is a happy camper. Did it truly affect his overall pressure – doubtful and he just picked up a little extra therapy in one of his chairs. And if you suggest 2 jets won’t matter, after wet testing and turning individual jets on and off, I’d say 2 jets can make a difference.
Seems to me like a pretty nice way to differentiate your product. Adding a couple of jets is inexpensive. Adding a pump and jets would cost more, but nowhere near the cost of a new tub. Rather than put down Arctic, what is the Hydropool alternative? There is no alternative. You can't do that with your spas. In my opinion, you’ve got no answer other than to put it down.
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Once again a "P"ing match. I have a question. Has anyone on this board (customer only not dealer) added jets to their Arctic? Has anyone other than Arctic owners lost sleep at night knowing that they couldn't then decided to sell their current tub and buy a new one? The question is which one is better and we all know it's niether, it's a BEACHCOMBER 750BLE of course. ::) 8) ;D :D ;). Just kidding.
Ray
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"....that beautiful blonde in the itty bitty I don't want to do it thru a microban armrest. ..."
Microban can protect you against cooties. ;)
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I have a question with regards to adding jets...Are there recesses there for the jets with the thought of adding them later....or do you just drill holes in the shell and pop them in with no recess ......to be most upfront neither option seems appealing to me .....but without seeing it myself perhaps it works just fine....
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I have a question with regards to adding jets...Are there recesses there for the jets with the thought of adding them later....or do you just drill holes in the shell and pop them in with no recess ......to be most upfront neither option seems appealing to me .....but without seeing it myself perhaps it works just fine....
There are predetermined recesses there for the jets. If you look at the Arctic line, they have the models and then different jet/pump combinations available within a model. To save money, you could get a lower level pump/jet line and add a couple of jets to target a specific area. Especially for those who do chose a lower level pump/jet combo, it certainly lends flexiblity. Everyone claims to keep their tubs for years. It just might be nice to be able to update a bit down the road. It's a benefit and one not readily answered by competitors. Is it the sole reason to buy? No. But when the decision narrows, it's a nice way to differentiate your product in a positive manner.
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We have an 'intermediate' jetting package with our Arctic tub. While we have no plans to upgrade/alter the tub at this time, it may prove to be a nice alternative down the road. I do not know how much this would cost, but I can't help but feel it would be less than purchasing a new tub all-together.
This is kind of like re-inventing your experience if you will.
Jc
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This is kind of like re-inventing your experience if you will.
Jc
Or reliving old arguments
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I'm sorry but I just don't think alot of the crud argued about on this board means beans to 98 percent of the tub owners out there. There looking for hot steamy water to soak in with some friends or by yourself, and relax. Why is it used as a sales pitch....cause ya gota sell tubs.
The question was, Sundance over Arctic......they are both OK for creating hot water to soak in. Not my favorites and IMHO not great value but they will do the job. Whichever feels the best in a wet or dry test should be the one decided on.
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...we are purchasing our tub for us, not for or to impress or brush against our friends. Not everyone may care for the sculpted seating, but I would recommend evaluating why you are investing in a spa and satisfy the results of that evalutaion first. If you want a party tub, then a tub with 4 sculpted corner chairs may not be for you, or you just may not like the feel.
I know, I know. It wasn't really about brushing against our friends [joke = haha] nor as a 'party pool' and just having a hot tub is impressive enough. We have two girls 13 and 10 and sculpted seats may be too deep for them and their sure-as-rain frollicking. I just don't like being told where to sit and being put in my place, firm and therapeutic as that may be.
My evaluation results were satisfied and i guess yours were too. Arctic's seem to have many great features but at a cost. Enjoy!
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Seems to me like a pretty nice way to differentiate your product. Adding a couple of jets is inexpensive. Adding a pump and jets would cost more, but nowhere near the cost of a new tub. Rather than put down Arctic, what is the Hydropool alternative? There is no alternative. You can't do that with your spas. In my opinion, you’ve got no answer other than to put it down.
The reality is that people can upgrade their current jets to new jets anytime and keep up with the new therapy offered. We let people use the tub for a couple of weeks and bring in and exchange any jets for free. For an average of $15 - $20 per jet, they can upgrade their jets as new therapy jets are offered. This isn't exclusive to Hydropool by any means and most manufacturers offer this ability. Nice feature IMO.
Adding jets down the road is like adding a sunroof to car after market. It's never quite the same. I would guess that cost associated to adding more jets and a pump would be prohibitive in most cases and doesn't happen much at all.
Let's face it, people often find that they've purchased more jets than needed in most cases and have been over sold by their salesperson. Most of us sit in the spa without the jets on more than we do on full power. It's a sales gimmick... though with our insulation design, we could offer it as easily but choose not to. It just doesn't reflect the average customers needs.
Steve
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I'm sorry but I just don't think alot of the crud argued about on this board means beans to 98 percent of the tub owners out there. There looking for hot steamy water to soak in with some friends or by yourself, and relax. Why is it used as a sales pitch....cause ya gota sell tubs.
The question was, Sundance over Arctic......they are both OK for creating hot water to soak in. Not my favorites and IMHO not great value but they will do the job. Whichever feels the best in a wet or dry test should be the one decided on.
TMAN What are your favorites and which do you feel give the best value??
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.....Adding jets down the road is like adding a sunroof to car after market. It's never quite the same.
If you don't do it, how can you make such a statement? If the recesses are there, you know where the jets go. Adding a few, which could make a difference, would be a snap. I doubt it takes much to make the change. Adding a pump and multiple jets of course would be more involved.
I would guess that cost associated to adding more jets and a pump would be prohibitive in most cases and doesn't happen much at all.
Still nowhere near the cost of a new tub and I still maintain the ability to update down the road is a nice way to differentiate the product. Nearly everyone can swap jets, few to none can add. It's fair to point it out. You squawk when the Arctic guys claim "best X". But when a true and tangible difference is pointed out, you still squawk.
It's a sales gimmick... though with our insulation design, we could offer it as easily but choose not to. It just doesn't reflect the average customers needs.
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I wouldn't say digging out all that foam is "easy". The Hydropool website suggests your spas are mostly foam filled with 2lb closed foam. I guess it could be done, but conceptually to the average customer it's not going to fly. Again I believe that is the real reason you "choose" not to do it and why you try to dismiss it as a gimmick. It would fly better to hear, "yea that's a nice option, but from my experience, there wouldn't be much demand." But from what I've read from you, your keyboard would melt as you tried to type it. ;)
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TMAN What are your favorites and which do you feel give the best value??
I believe Marquis to be of good value depending on the dealer and his mark up structure. I like Emerald and Catalina and for the value line I prefer Great Lakes. But there are others and if I had to choose again I would do the same as I did last time choose based on value, componants used. and cost. Not some sales pitch regarding adding jets or standing on the cover. If your not in the mechanical field as I am I would add comfort with the dealer as also very important, but I fix my own stuff.
Here's a list, maybe some of these are in your area. Take your time and look at as many as you can.
Artesian Spas
Bradford Spas
Charisma Spas
Great Lakes Spas
Jacuzzi Whirlpool
L.A. Spas
PDC Spas
Phoenix Spas
Royal Spas
Saratoga Spas
Sonoma Spas
Sunbelt Spas Affordable Spas
Apollo Spas
Aries Spas
Baja Spas
BullFrog Spas
Comfort Line Products
Coleman Spas
Emerald Spas
Galaxy Aquatics Inc
Gatsby Spas
Honey Tubs
Morgan Spas
Nordic Hot Tubs
North West Spas
QCA Spas
Sedona Spas
Soft Tub
Sweetwater Spas
Aber Hot Tub Mfg
Action Spas Inc
Creative Design Products
Diamondback Spas
Freeflow Spas
Hydro Wave Spas
Millennium Spas
Moon Water Spas
Quantum Products
Southland Spa
Spas and Such 4U
Sunrise Spas
Thermo Spas
Almost Heaven Tubs
Arizona Pacific Spas
Astra Spas
Adventure Spas
Blueridge Spas
BPS Spas
Canadian Hot Tubs
Crestline Spas
Dolphin Spas
Great Northern
Holiday Spas
Hydro-Health Spas
Shore Line Leisure
Streamline Mfg
Sunset Spas
Waters Edge Spas
Arctic Spas
Beachcomber Hot Tubs
Caldera Spas
Cal Spas
Catalina Spas
Clearwater Spas
Coast Spas
Dimension 1 Spas
Gulf Coast Spas
Hydropool Hot Tubs
Hydro Spas
Marquis Spas
Manufacturer Direct Spas
Spas Direct
Spa Companies w/Multiple Brands
Dynasty Spas
Garden Leisure Spas
Hot Spring Spas
Hot Spot Spas
Solana Spa
Tiger River Spas
Hawkeye Spas
Barefoot Spas
Master Spas
Down East Spas
Sundance Spas
Jacuzzi Premium Spas
Vita Spa
Reflections Spas
Swim Spas
Dimension 1 Swim Spas
Hydropool Swim Spas
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stl-rex:
Please don't feel like you need to justify your purchase to me.
Steve
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if I had to choose again I would do the same as I did last time choose based on value, componants used. and cost. Not some sales pitch regarding adding jets or standing on the cover. If your not in the mechanical field as I am I would add comfort with the dealer as also very important, but I fix my own stuff.
I agree to a point, but you're leaving out, in my opinion, the primary criteria and that is comfort and fit of the spa. Do you fit, float, are the jets positioned for you or your shape, do the jets massage the groups you want massaged? All accomplisehd with a wet-test. I based my decision on wet tests and which worked best for me not secondary attributes. The only way those should come into play is if there's a true toss up among 2-3 spas. But based on wet testing, there usually are enough differences that wet testing should decide.
From reading here however, the vast majority don't wet-test, so dealers are reduced to sales pitches to move product. Every dealer I went into tried to tell me why their tub was the tub for me and how wonderful they were, but most backed off when I let them know I was going to wet test and that was going to be the deciding factor. If people are going to buy spas at a show or at a showroom without a wet-test (which they do), and I think I can get an edge by standing on a cover, why wouldn't I? Shame on the consumer for forking out all that money without testing it first.
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stl-rex:
Please don't feel like you need to justify your purchase to me.
Steve
Ummmmm. I wasn't ::) You seem to take pride in knocking Arctic down with a pretty broad stroke. I see nothing wrong with challenging you on points with which I disagree.
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Who here can tell me the difference between sundance and arctic?...
The main difference I see is: if you put Arctic in a thread title you will get a minimum of 3 pages of posts and most likely 7, while Sundance may only generate 2. ;D
You aren't going to get a consensus answer to a question like that. Each has their own champions, (one just has more aggresive champions and challengers) and like every spa manufactured, they both have strengths and weaknesses. If you are going to chose between those two, pick the one that matches your needs best and don't worry about what others think. Good Luck!
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The main difference I see is: if you put Arctic in a thread title you will get a minimum of 3 pages of posts and most likely 7, while Sundance may only generate 2. ;D
You aren't going to get a consensus answer to a question like that. Each has their own champions, (one just has more aggresive champions and challengers) and like every spa manufactured, they both have strengths and weaknesses. If you are going to chose between those two, pick the one that matches your needs best and don't worry about what others think. Good Luck!
A most sensible answer ......obi one ....much simple truth in it .... ;)
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Tman,
That list is ridiculous. I don't understand why you posted it.
Are you saying that all those tubs are among your favorites?
Or were you simply trying to illustrate that a consumer should look at as many tubs as possible?
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The main difference I see is: if you put Arctic in a thread title you will get a minimum of 3 pages of posts and most likely 7, while Sundance may only generate 2. ;D
You aren't going to get a consensus answer to a question like that. Each has their own champions, (one just has more aggresive champions and challengers) and like every spa manufactured, they both have strengths and weaknesses. If you are going to chose between those two, pick the one that matches your needs best and don't worry about what others think. Good Luck!
Soakin Can you list the strenths and weakness of each? It may help the new buyer to consider if his needs will be met by either tub
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Soakin Can you list the strenths and weakness of each?...
Yes, I can list some, and thanks for asking jismo ;)...
but IMO that depends on your situation, perspective and needs, which is why I suggested SS focus on their own situation, not the opinions of others. He/she is either a dealer trying to provoke another round of Arctic bashing on the board or a shopper who seems to already have done enough evaluation to have narrowed their search to two quality manufacturers (even if one brand that they are considering is one that people seem to love or hate, no one disputes their product, just their marketing.) If they were looking for validation of both as legitimate choices, I think they received that, so it comes down to their own evaluation.
Regardless of SS' motives, I'll give you a few examples of why I think others' lists of strengths and weaknesses wouldn't help them any more than the current discussion of marketing hyperbole and upgradeability has:
1. Arctic's "Forever Floor" could be important if you intend to set the spa on an unprepared surface, but wouldn't mean as much if you are putting it on a deck.
2. Sundance's longevity and and reputation may be a deciding factor for someone, but a moot point if the local dealer is inadequate.
3. Arctic's cover may be well be a feature that appeals to some, but if you live in a warmer climate with less return on cover insulation and no snow load, is it an issue? Even if you do live in the snow belt, is it worth the cost compared to an upgraded cover from Sundance? Do you plan to use the cover as a dance floor, or just to keep the heat in and the dirt out? ;D
4. If you don't mind cleaning filters every few months and agree that almost any quality spa can provide clean, clear water is Sundance's disposable microfilter an important point in your decision?
5. If the spa is going outside, is Arctic's premium ozone system with the catalytic converter a strength or an unnecessarily complicated and expensive system? What if you don't even want ozone?
6. Then there all of the (IMO) philosophical discussions that have taken place here regarding full foam vs. thermal-loc and their effects on operating costs, repairs and upgrades. Which one is a strength and which one is a weakness (if either are) depends again on your perspective.
I'm not trying to duck your question jsimo, I just don't feel that my list of strengths and weaknesses would be of any more benefit to SS or you than Tman's list of spa manufacturers, and they would only serve as fodder to propel this thread into double digit pages, so I'm not going to invest the time. (looking back at this, it appears I have already put in too much time and taken up too much space, given that my original post was only meant to be a jab at all the overblown Arctic debate) That is what Duffman is for ;) and there is much debate whether his results/opinions are applicable to anyone else, too. ;D
Have a good day!
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Soakin.....I think you did a fine job in answering the question... both are fine products and your comfort in the spa and your dealer should ultimately decide which one to go with ....Perhaps some folks are looking for the definitive answer as to who has the best spa and outside of a Marquis...... :o.......just kidding......sorta....no really I am..... ;)....there is no clear answer, in the end it is what someone is most comfortable with, spa and local dealer and the advice of most is always to wet test and to stick with those company's who over time have proved to stand behind the products they build......
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Tman,
That list is ridiculous. I don't understand why you posted it.
Are you saying that all those tubs are among your favorites?
Or were you simply trying to illustrate that a consumer should look at as many tubs as possible?
I asked if those were the only choices the original poster had and never got an answer. The response wasn't meant for you. But if you would of read it you would of seen my favorites as they are clearly stated in the post. The idea was to let the original poster know that there are infinite choices and no one should limit themselfs to just 2. Unless of course you think a choice between 2 is enough, and don't care about all the sales crud but just want hot water.
But that doesn't seem to be the case with the poster as they want an answer of which is the best between the 2, and if I had to make that choise then it would come down to cost as I see no difference in quality between the 2. Both mediocre value IMO but good choices if they fit your backside and your budget.
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I agree to a point, but you're leaving out, in my opinion, the primary criteria and that is comfort and fit of the spa. Do you fit, float, are the jets positioned for you or your shape, do the jets massage the groups you want massaged? All accomplisehd with a wet-test. I based my decision on wet tests and which worked best for me not secondary attributes. \
Your right here Rex, but during my wet test time I found all I needed was a hot water vessel to make me content. And I am sure there's plenty of others like me. I am actualy a perfect canidate for a wooden tub as that is how I use mine. I hire a massuese when I want a massage because a hot tub no matter what brand or jet configuration didn't do it for me. And I have wet tested around 20-30 different tubs ranging in HP and jet count from 3/4 HP and 4 jets to 12 HP and 135 jets. For me it is more the ambiance, ouside, 20 degrees, steam rising, cold beer, deer walking by, stars in the sky, and not a sound except the gurgling of the tub. There's no disputing its relaxing power but a massage it didn't deliver. And I can get the relaxation with alot less tub. So reliability, ease of repair and longevity were main issues. Then we look at pump and motor manufacturers, control board heater manufacturers and what type of shell material and frame. If we have all good quality components in a brand that is considered a value brand then why not?
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Thanks for every ones responses on this subject! Didnt want to offend any one but all of your answers have been quite helpfull! I actually have checked out several other tubs and had narrowed it down to those two. I like my local sundance dealer and have decided to go with an altamar with stereo the sundance stereo is the best we have heard....we have been looking since the last home show....Thanks Agian :)
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Yes, I can list some, and thanks for asking jismo ;)...
but IMO that depends on your situation, perspective and needs, which is why I suggested SS focus on their own situation, not the opinions of others. He/she is either a dealer trying to provoke another round of Arctic bashing on the board or a shopper who seems to already have done enough evaluation to have narrowed their search to two quality manufacturers (even if one brand that they are considering is one that people seem to love or hate, no one disputes their product, just their marketing.) If they were looking for validation of both as legitimate choices, I think they received that, so it comes down to their own evaluation.
Regardless of SS' motives, I'll give you a few examples of why I think others' lists of strengths and weaknesses wouldn't help them any more than the current discussion of marketing hyperbole and upgradeability has:
1. Arctic's "Forever Floor" could be important if you intend to set the spa on an unprepared surface, but wouldn't mean as much if you are putting it on a deck.
2. Sundance's longevity and and reputation may be a deciding factor for someone, but a moot point if the local dealer is inadequate.
3. Arctic's cover may be well be a feature that appeals to some, but if you live in a warmer climate with less return on cover insulation and no snow load, is it an issue? Even if you do live in the snow belt, is it worth the cost compared to an upgraded cover from Sundance? Do you plan to use the cover as a dance floor, or just to keep the heat in and the dirt out? ;D
4. If you don't mind cleaning filters every few months and agree that almost any quality spa can provide clean, clear water is Sundance's disposable microfilter an important point in your decision?
5. If the spa is going outside, is Arctic's premium ozone system with the catalytic converter a strength or an unnecessarily complicated and expensive system? What if you don't even want ozone?
6. Then there all of the (IMO) philosophical discussions that have taken place here regarding full foam vs. thermal-loc and their effects on operating costs, repairs and upgrades. Which one is a strength and which one is a weakness (if either are) depends again on your perspective.
I'm not trying to duck your question jsimo, I just don't feel that my list of strengths and weaknesses would be of any more benefit to SS or you than Tman's list of spa manufacturers, and they would only serve as fodder to propel this thread into double digit pages, so I'm not going to invest the time. (looking back at this, it appears I have already put in too much time and taken up too much space, given that my original post was only meant to be a jab at all the overblown Arctic debate) That is what Duffman is for ;) and there is much debate whether his results/opinions are applicable to anyone else, too. ;D
Have a good day!
Sokin .. I appericate the time and effort to answer my question. Thanks. I would have considered Artic but found no dealers close to me.
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Thanks for every ones responses on this subject! Didnt want to offend any one but all of your answers have been quite helpfull! I actually have checked out several other tubs and had narrowed it down to those two. I like my local sundance dealer and have decided to go with an altamar with stereo the sundance stereo is the best we have heard....we have been looking since the last home show....Thanks Agian :)
A friend of ours has an Altimar and likes it a lot. The lounge fits him perfectly and was his deciding factor for that tub. He wanted the Maxxus, but the lounge didn't fit him. I doubt you will be disappointed in it.