Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: stl-rex on September 14, 2005, 11:11:18 pm
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Can folks share warranty experiences?
I have been looking at warranties.
Red Flag 1 - if the tub has to go back to the factory or a new tub to replace the old is sent out, or both - the customer flips for the freight, del, set up etc. I doubt it happens often, but it's a pretty significant exclusion. Has it happened to anyone?
Some are vague and list "freight expense" as not covered. Does that include the cost merely to ship parts is also not covered?
Red Flag 2 - 'X' years parts and labor, BUT the cost of the service call/mileage is on you. They only pay labor for the repair. Technically that means if you have to call the dealer back the week following initially delivery to fix something, he can charge you X dollars for a trip charge which to me is a crock of s__t.
Red Flag 3 - certain wear items warranted for condition at delivery only. If your cabinet warps in the Texas sun 2 months after delivery, too bad.
Not every brand has all of these, nor am I necessarily looking for a brand that has none of these since I'm not sure it exists and if it did, there's no guarantee it will fit me or I will like it. I'm wondering what to expect should I need service once I buy a spa given these worst case scenarios.
The warranties, like many others sound great until you read the fine print and find substantial exclusions. I'm guessing what I'll hear is "if you have good reputable local dealer, they'll take care of you". And my question back would be - are you the dealer willing to put in writing that you waive the right to ever collect a trip charge for a warranty repair? (I know better than to ask them to assume liability for freight of an entire spa.)
Nitpicking.....maybe. But as I'm close to buying, I'm finishing up my research. Hopefully, I'll never have to address having a warranty repair, but it's good information to have to keep things in perspective.
Thanks.
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I don't know which tubs you are looking at, but we bought a Marquis Epic and it has the easiest warranty with the least exclusions I've seen. In fact, it doesn't have an "exclusions" section in the warranty.
You can download the warranty from Marquis' website. This is what I got from my dealer when I asked about Marquis' warranty and travel charges.
Actually, you will have a full five yr warranty on parts, labor and travel. The Marquis Everyday Hot tub line is 3 years on parts and labor.
7 years - Shell, skirt and plumbing
5 years - Motor(s), pump, heater, jets and spa pack (computer)
3 years - Lights, ozonator, fuses, cover and (see actual owner’s protection plan)
This is considered the best warranty from the major manufacturers.
I'm sure there will be "discussions" on that last sentence as far as the "best", but it seems to be a fairly straight forward warranty.
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I don't know which tubs you are looking at, but we bought a Marquis Epic and it has the easiest warranty with the least exclusions I've seen. In fact, it doesn't have an "exclusions" section in the warranty.
You can download the warranty from Marquis' website. This is what I got from my dealer when I asked about Marquis' warranty and travel charges.
I'm sure there will be "discussions" on that last sentence as far as the "best", but it seems to be a fairly straight forward warranty.
They still have a few.
From Marquis:
"Marquis Corp. agrees to repair any plumbing or surface defects and to repair or furnish a replacement for any factoryinstalledcomponents covered under this warranty which, upon test and examination by Marquis Corp., prove defective. All materials for examination must be returned to Marquis Corp. freight prepaid."
"Other items not included in this warranty are freight expense; labor and material costs associated with removal and/or replacement of spa;"
"Your authorized Marquis Dealer reserves the right to assess travel charges for service calls which are beyond the scope of their normal service area." (fair enough - but then again their normal service area should be their sales area imho.)
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They still have a few.
From Marquis:
"Marquis Corp. agrees to repair any plumbing or surface defects and to repair or furnish a replacement for any factoryinstalledcomponents covered under this warranty which, upon test and examination by Marquis Corp., prove defective. All materials for examination must be returned to Marquis Corp. freight prepaid."
"Other items not included in this warranty are freight expense; labor and material costs associated with removal and/or replacement of spa;"
"Your authorized Marquis Dealer reserves the right to assess travel charges for service calls which are beyond the scope of their normal service area." (fair enough - but then again their normal service area should be their sales area imho.)
Your Marquis dealer is reasonable for returning the items and as for the trip charge, this to cover those who as you mention buy out of their normal sales territory, perhaps like someone who moves and brings a tub say for example to Big Bear (here in so cal) I would be their servicing dealer but it is out at of the realm of my normal territory .....I think most customers understand when live on the out shirts of places.
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I didn't find enough difference in warranty between the spas I shopped to make a difference one way or another. Like most other concerns, it was only a small part of the overall consideration.
Don't put too much into your shopping and research that it takes all the fun out of what should be a fun thing- shopping for a new toy. Unless you like that sorta thing and thinks it's fun. If that's the case, go nuts.
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One thing I found interesting when shoppnig for a spa is that a lot of the manufactures (Hot Springs, Coleman) warranites are not transferable to new owners. This seemed crazy to me, and raised a flag.
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I'm hoping that trasferable warrenty will be a selling point for me as I'm trying to sell my 2004 Marquis.
As far as warrenty work done on my marquis, I've a couple things done on mine, and I can't say enough good things.
The latest was that the handle on my cover ripped off. I called my dealer and emailed them pics. The next thing I knew, about 4 weeks later, the tech was at my door with a new cover.
I don't know if I say my dealer is awesome or Marquis, but I do know that the warrenty was a huge factor in buying my Marquis the first time, and a main reason for buying one the next time (hopefully upgrading to an Epic soon)
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Agree, Ruby. Mendo and my dealer told me Marquis' warranty was transferable. Don't know of any other warranty that is.
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Beachcomber is. Hot Springs is not.
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Every warranty has at least one exclusion.
Beachcomber for example, touts that they have a guarantee not a warranty. They also claim to have no exclusions.
From the Beachcomber Guarantee:
"There is only one condition attached to our guarantee: the hot tub must not in our opinion have been subjected to any willful abuse, neglect or misuse during the the period of coverage, including having the required regular maintenance performed. The Beachcomber Guarantees are transferable to a new owner within 30 days of expiry. ...."
If you ask me that is a pretty fat exclusion. I would rather have specific examples/list of things that are not covered or considered "willful abuse, neglect or misuse" than a vague promise that could be retracted "in our opinion"
I am amazed consumers expect bullet proof warranties on spas when they don't get them in automotive, electronics etc.
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I am amazed consumers expect bullet proof warranties on spas when they don't get them in automotive, electronics etc.
Hottubman...you make a good point.
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I am amazed consumers expect bullet proof warranties on spas when they don't get them in automotive, electronics etc.
I don't expect bullet proof. It's obvious all have wiggle room, even some of the more comprehensive. I'm sure they are based on experience and intentionally limit their liability. But if you get a lemon, which is always a possibilty, you are open to substantial unintended expense. The biggest issue I have is the "you pay for the service call" disclaimer. It's not as if you have a reasonable option to take the tub in, like a car, stereo, etc. So I think that's a pretty crappy exclusion. Unfortunately, the mfr towards which I am leaning has it in their warranty and I may be stuck with it.
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Does the dealer you're shopping at actually charge the fee?
My Sundance warranty has the dealer fee blub, my particular dealer doesn't charge it.
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It's not as if you have a reasonable option to take the tub in, like a car, stereo, etc.
stl-rex...you make a good point also.
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Does the dealer you're shopping at actually charge the fee?
My Sundance warranty has the dealer fee blub, my particular dealer doesn't charge it.
Did they put it in writing or is that just their "policy" subject to change at any time. Again, I know I'm nit-picking, but I have been burned by "not putting it in writing" and unfortunately trusting a person to keep their word.
If I recall, the dealer indicated they don't charge that. But I didn't ask for it in writing as I haven't gone in the final time. I like the guy and probably believe him. But the mfr's really have cya'd themselves
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It's not as if you have a reasonable option to take the tub in, like a car, stereo, etc. So I think that's a pretty crappy exclusion. Unfortunately, the mfr towards which I am leaning has it in their warranty and I may be stuck with it.
I understand and agree to a point. I do not think you should have to pay a travel charge within the dealers sales territory, since you cant take it in like a car.
I also know that some consumer electronics that would think you could take in, dont work that way. For example we have a HP Laserjet 3330 in our office. One might assume (as my employer did) that a huge company like Hewlett Packard would have a solid warranty program. When we had an issue, we could not return it to the point of purchase. We were required to ship it, prepaid, to their office. Not what we would have expected from a computer giant like HP.
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Then it seems to me it ultimately comes down to the dealer. Buy a top manufactured tub from a well-known, reputable dealer who is known for customer service...and ask the dealer how he handles trip charges. Get it in writing from the dealer if it will make you feel better.
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The dealer I bought my spa from replaced the cover that had a small puncture hole in it in 4 days. They didn't have to replace it as the delivery crew that I had hired put the hole in it. I explained this and they said not to worry, they would send a new one out. I didn't know they were even there. They took apart the coverlifter and installed the new cover along with the locks.
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I was wondering how the payment part comes with warranty work, considering parts and gas prices.
I have had to call my dealer on two very minor repairs that I wouldn't normally care about but decided to call him partly to test the service and partly because I could.
Both times the tech came out within a day or so and never questioned a thing.
Does the manufacturer absorb the costs or does the dealer?
Another thing that confuses me is to why people seem to make the decision to buy a particular brand over a couple years difference on a warranty issue, like 7 years opposed to 5 years.
Also confusing is how a coverlift, steps, and chemicals is so often a deal sealer when purchased separately would cost:
1. Cover lift: Around $200
2. Steps: $100??
3. Chemicals: $75 max?
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I was wondering how the payment part comes with warranty work, considering parts and gas prices.
I have had to call my dealer on two very minor repairs that I wouldn't normally care about but decided to call him partly to test the service and partly because I could.
Both times the tech came out within a day or so and never questioned a thing.
Does the manufacturer absorb the costs or does the dealer?
The manufacturer pays for the parts, provided they are covered. Some manufacturers dont cover fuses(for example), some dealers may absorb that cost. Most repairs have a labour allowance, ie 30 minutes for a pressure switch or 1 hour for a pump R&R. As far as gas/travel, some manufatcurers pay a flat trip charge (Coleman, Hydropool) where others expect the dealer to completely absorb these costs (Beachcomber, D-1).
Another thing that confuses me is to why people seem to make the decision to buy a particular brand over a couple years difference on a warranty issue, like 7 years opposed to 5 years.
Its all in the cost. Manufacturers are obliged by law to set aside a portion of gross profits to honour these warranties.
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You will note that some people have a good relationships or attitudes about or with their dealers, while others may not speak so kindly of their relationships.
We (both consumers and dealers) are inherently all good people and want to do good things for our friends, neighbors and those we like. On the other hand, treat me rudely with indignance, belittle me, berate me or make demands expecting everything to be my fault or their fault, and of course, not your fault, and that it should be provided for free of charge, then we've got a problem.
Dealers are in the people business and they still have to buy gas to travel to help their customers who also are people who have done something for them. While we do appreciate this, service does come at a cost and someone, someplace along the line takes money out of their pocket to accomplish this objective.
Of course, the consumer naturally expects this to be the dealer because he "made money" in the transaction. However, keep in mind that every consumer reading this forum is doing so in order to make the best decision and to get a fair price, however some want the LOWEST price don't they. Some even go to extremes to play the game and to "negotiate" to get the best price from the salesperson or dealer in order not to not pay more than necessary. And, we dealers don't want these people walking out over a petty matter of $100 because we both loose. Usually, this is the shopper that get's the short end of the stick from some disreputable seller who is gone three months later.
This is where the additional charges apply, and this is where people "squeek". They want low prices and everything free. While others may only want a "Fair" price allowing the dealer to "benefit" in the transaction. This is the customer that we all go the extra mile for at no charge, doing extra things that are not expected at no cost because WE ARE IN A PEOPLE BUSINESS.
Yes we are given that discreationary option for mileage charges and the freight charges that we must pay to accomodate your needs. 75% of the time we do this at no charge, but maybe, just maybe 25% of the time the charges just may be justifiable.
When people are nice, it is nice to be nice to people, but when some of the people are not nice they make it very, very hard to be nice and then they usually tell a hundred other people about their bad experiences while the others just appreciated being taken care of nicely. Maybe we should look in the mirror.
There is not a dealer reading this forum that does not care about his customers, that is why he is here.
In like kind there is not a consumer here who is not looking for the best decision to make and NOT to be taken advantage of, that is why he is here.
Focus on the product first, the dealer "relationship" second, then expect to pay what you choose to afford. If the dealer has been in business for a longer period of time, chances are it will be a good decision and a rewarding experience. If the dealer has been in business 12 months, then maybe he just may be one of the best dealers entering into this business and just starting out, BUT the risk factor is a little bit higher.
All warranties have exclusions of some sort, and not all product failures are the fault of "defective" materials or the result of the ambiguous factor of "workmanship", but we are here to take care of it for you and most of us are reputable business people looking to survive in a business to support our employees and their families.
It is the american way.
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Did they put it in writing or is that just their "policy" subject to change at any time. Again, I know I'm nit-picking, but I have been burned by "not putting it in writing" and unfortunately trusting a person to keep their word.
If I recall, the dealer indicated they don't charge that. But I didn't ask for it in writing as I haven't gone in the final time. I like the guy and probably believe him. But the mfr's really have cya'd themselves
They didn't put it in writing, and honestly, I could really care less. It's such a teeny part of having a spa. I spend most of my spa time enjoying the soak, and not so much fretting over things that really make little difference in the long run.
Even if I had to have service out once per year for 5 years, and I had to pay $60 per trip, it's only a few bucks. Heck I'm spending hundreds per year on electricity, chemicals, filters, so I'm not going to worry about something that minor. I've had service out a total of 0 times so far.
You know that saying, don't sweat the small stuff?
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You will note that some people have a good relationships or attitudes about or with their dealers.............
Appreciate the thoughtful well written comment.
On here and other boards, there's a buyer-beware attitude about dealers. Lot's of "is this a good price". It is much like buying car without the MSRP as a reference.
You seem to condemn those who strongly negotiate. No dealer is going to drop below a certain price. Anyone who comes to or close to that price is not necessarily a bad customer. That person still may buy chemicals and supplies from you and enjoy shooting the breeze about the spa business after the sale. Remember, a $10K investment (after electric and site prep) is substantial and many dealers do nothing to discourage the price game by not displaying prices and by acting evasive if you want a price. There is as much of a bleed the customer mentality as a bleed the dealer from what I've experienced and I've yet to seriously negotiate with anyone (as in let's place an order).
I also believe dealer rapport is more critical with a small business than someplace like Watson's. It has to be a reasonable win for both parties and that's the key. You also have to hope your dealer makes a profit or he/she won't be in business long to serve your future needs.
I would also think the dealers should be as unhappy about the warranty exclusions as potential customers as they will eventually bear their wrath if things don't go right and they probably absorb a lot of costs to keep the peace and to keep the customer happy.
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Appreciate the thoughtful well written comment.
I would also think the dealers should be as unhappy about the warranty exclusions as potential customers as they will eventually bear their wrath if things don't go right and they probably absorb a lot of costs to keep the peace and to keep the customer happy.
First, I say thank you.
Secondly, I say no truer words were ever spoken.
I believe in communication up front to answer all the issues in the mind of the consumer, this includes the concept of pricing. When the question of pricing comes up, it is a legitimate question and one that intends to measure affordability and what I want to spend. When I become "better" informed, I may adjust my budget, but what do I know when the process begins.
As it relates to warranty, your dealer is 85% of waranty determination. Not everything is a defect of material or the result of "poor" workmanship. More common than not, it is simply the result of what happens when we do not know what to do, watch for or how to manage good water conditions. This, I feel, is the responsibility of the dealer to properly indoctrinate his customer.
In this interest, when we deliver the spa, we leave a booklet that covers start up, water conditions, changing seasons, most common issues that arise, what to do IF something happens, our 800 number, and a recorded message that makes available our personal cell numbers for urgent needs.
Unfortunatly, we have experienced glue failure that affected '95, '96, '97 production and 100% of our sales during that time. This was a direct result of a mandate by the EPA to reduce emmissions going into the atmosphere that changed the formulation of glue properties. Tis affected many different industries including the counter tops that are laminated.
Nevertheless, after 4 to 5 years glue failed. Dealers of many different brands have been plagued by the problem and all have treated it differently.
Dealers do "eventually bear their wrath if things don't go right and they probably absorb a lot of costs to keep the peace and to keep the customer happy". When people vent their anger on the dealer, sometimes it becomes hard to bear, but yes dealers do pay the price. But, dealers who are committed to their customers do make a big difference and IMHO are worth the price you pay.
I agree, they may be hard to find or identify before the purchase. Maybe we should wear stars on our forehead. ;)
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As a dealer, we choose NOT to levy trip or fuel surcharges for warranty work.
Our manufacturer does pay me to pick up your tub if it has to go back to the factory, and once fixed, pays me to return it to you.
What we do charge for under the warranty period is a false service call. No warrantiable part to replace. Like- my spa isn't heating- we go out and find dirty, neglected filters. $85.00. We ask abunch of questions and sometimes take care of a problem right over the phone. We try to qualify all service calls prior to just running out and checking it. We have over 3,000 spa in the field and we try to educate our clients as best as possible.
Just yesterday, I talked to a gentleman who had bought one of our brands, yet from another dealer. The other dealer wanted a $125.00 trip charge in addition to $60.00 labor to go look at an out-of-warranty ozone. A meager 25 miles for the dealer to drive.
We just do not choose to do business and treat or clients in this type of fashion. You do not receive very many referrals that way.
Yes, it's buyer beware, you should read the fine print, and thank god.....more people are!
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The dealer of the spa in which I have an interest offered to write into our contract with him no trip charge during the warranty for warranty repairs and his responsibility to change out tubs during warranty period if it came to that. His position was that's how he does business anyway and it's no issue with him adding it in. As I think I stated earlier, I like him (and so does my wife). He's a fun guy to shoot the breeze with.