Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: mjyp on August 29, 2005, 01:03:11 pm
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We finally made our decision to buy a tub, we have it narrowed down to 2 models
The Jacuzzi J365 and the Sundance Optima.
Now the hard part, they are nearly both the same, except for a couple of extra bells and whistles.
What I need are the pros and cons for all owners of the above spas.
One big plus in my eyes is the Jacuzzi is a bit cheaper. The stainless jets on the Sundance appear to be plated and will most likely need replacement in a couple of years.
Thanks in advance.
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The stainless jets on the Sundance appear to be plated and will most likely need replacement in a couple of years.
Not true on either count.
Brewman
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I took one out and they are not solid stainless, if they are not plated then what are they??
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Is there any benifit to the SS jets, or is it all cosmetic?
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that is why i favor the j365, just really wanted some feed back on both tubs is all.
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Is there any benifit to the SS jets, or is it all cosmetic?
cosmetic
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They may be plated, if so, they are done well. Going on 3 years, and ours still look brand new.
Brewman
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Mine are over three years and look new. A friend has a ten year old SD and his still look new.
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Hey MJYP, Jacuzzi J-355 owner here. Same size as the 365, except with lounger. I too looked at the Sundance's. Here's my breakdown and why I went with Jacuzzi.
Along with the price being significantly higher, the only other major differences I saw were...
1. fluid -x jets - could be very good(Jacuzzi IMHO has incredible, unique jets)
2. filtration - different (better or same as Jac?)
3. blower - the button you push and the whole tubs starts sending bubbles out (gadget - like waterfalls are as far as I'm concerned) I may be ignorant here of some actual benefit of this feature?
Similarities
1. Shells - exact same materials and colours available
2. Cabinets - almost exactly the same - Maxxus has identical cabinet
3. Cover (not that this matters much) but they're identical
4. Warranty - I'm not sure here but they appear similar
So I think you're on the right track. However, I can say that we made our decision also based on a comfort with the dealer (who I knew from previous tubs I'd owned) and the fact that he is a client of mine and my wife's (we're both in advertising sales)
To me, Jacuzzi makes a very good tub at a great price. My friend, who owns a late model HS Grandee was in my tub for the first time the other night and loved it. He was very impressed with the jetting.
Good luck hunting....
BTW, the platinum shell w/ coastal cabinet looks awesome (in Jacuzzi or Sundance)
Mark
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So aside from the jets, I really want to kno what you all feel about either tub should you happen to own one of them.
Instead of getting into a discussion about the SS or plastic jets.
thanks in advance for any tub feedback (J365 or Optima)
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Well I'm not a pro, but thought I would respond since we had our choice down to the Jacuzzi 385 and the Sundance Maxxus. Both appear to be very good tubs, and from what I know they are made in the same factory or something. The Sundance jets do not have any moving parts, whereas the Jacuzzi does - I don't know if that really matters but I liked that point. I liked the filtration system on the Maxxus better, and suposedly it can trap particles down to 5 microns. We liked the bells and whistles, and the Sundance seems to have a few more. But when it came down to it - my wife liked the Jacuzzi better because of the open feel. We then wet tested them both, one after the other, Jacuzzi first. The Jacuzzi felt great, I was about sold but we did the other test with the Maxxus. I found that the Maxxus had a more intense massage, and seemed a little more versatile. My wife was then sold on the Sundance.
I was a little concerned about the stainless jets too, but people have not had problems with them. The price difference for both was around $800 and when you're already spending so much, that isn't too bad. So I guess it comes down to this - go and wet test both - the same day if you can. I would have been fine with either but the choice was clearer with the wet test.
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We did the wet test on both, the dealer (Great Escape Chicago land burbs) carries both models.
Wife and I loved them both, which is whey this is so hard.
So far it's a dead heat as fa as positive/negative input.
One way or another come this Saturday we will be a new spa owner.
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I was torn over the J385 and Marquis Epic. We went with the Epic. I don't know what price quotes you've gotten on the Jacuzzi and the Sundance. We wet tested the J385 and the Sundance Cameo. Maybe Sundance has a few more bells & whistles but I think they both felt the same. Maybe between the two you're looking at it comes down to price IMO.
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The Sundance 880 Series (which the Optima is) not only has the Microfilter instead of the traditional paper filter, the circulation pump on the 880 Series moves 35 gallons per minute as opposed to 5-7 gallons per minute in everyone elses(including Jacuzzi). 50000 gallons filtered per day versus 10000 gallons per day.
If you dont want bells and whistes- SS jets, waterfall, blower, Microfilter, etc. compare the Jacuzzi to the Sundance 780 Series (The Bahia in this case) Paper filter, 7 GPM circ pump, plastic jets, etc. at a price that should be LOWER than a Jacuzzi.
Good Luck!!!!
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As a dealer for another line of tubs (which I'll not mention here, since it isn't one you're considering), if I was in your position, I'd take the Sundance. They are the only other brand outside of what I sell that I would ever recommend to friends or family.
I definately recommend wet testing both lines because comfort is a huge issue, but as far as quality, the Jacuzzi is nice, but Sundance is far superior.
Good luck in finding the right one for you!
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As a dealer for another line of tubs (which I'll not mention here, since it isn't one you're considering), if I was in your position, I'd take the Sundance. They are the only other brand outside of what I sell that I would ever recommend to friends or family.
I definately recommend wet testing both lines because comfort is a huge issue, but as far as quality, the Jacuzzi is nice, but Sundance is far superior.
Good luck in finding the right one for you!
Sundance and Jacuzzi supposedly come off the same line and have similar warranties. In my quest for a spa, tripped over the J365. Still have to wet test, but why the apparent preference for Sundance? What makes it so superior? The price differential, at least with essentially no haggling, is staggering, not to mention the folks at Jacuzzi were a lot nicer than the Sundance folks. I know the dealer is irrelevant to the hot tub quality, but we're talking a substantial price difference between the J365 and the Optima. Other general comments or knowledge of general Jacuzzi quality also appeciated, first hand preferred. That said, until a wet test proves otherwise, Arctic still reigns first for comfort, but they too are at substantial price disadvantage vs the Jacuzzi.
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Well, like you said, they are both made by the same manufacturer (or "come off the same line").
Why would a manufacturer make two identical tubs and price them differently? They don't. I think what TubsAndCues was implying is that the differences are not "bells and whistles".
If I remember from past threads on jacuzzi and sundance, the following have been offered as differences. not advocating either, but it might add another dimension to the research. If anyone knowledgable can speak to these, please do!
1. Sundance started with the powerful pumps and they were migrated to the jacuzzi without updates to the plumbing infrastructure which can cause problems over time.
2. The filtration on the Sundance tub is superior, with longer-lasting filters, a much higher capacity circulation pump (which aids filtration and ozonation), and more-fine-tuned filtration (5-micron or down to 1 micron with pre-filter).
3. The sundance line jets have little or no moving parts making them more robust.
4. It was observed that the quality control of the sundance product was tighter than the quality control of the jacuzzi product, but that was years ago and presumably things have "normalized" since then.
Questions I would ask for each tub to help figure out the engineering side of it:
1. What kind of ozonator is available on the jacuzzi and the sundance. My guess is the sundance has a "better" one, but I don't know for sure.
2. What is the replacement schedule and cost of the filters for each tub?
3. What is the *actual* surface area of filtration for each tub from the filters. Trust me, it seems like a bell/whistle but when you go outside after a party and see gunky water (because ozonation/filtration system is less powerful) it's still a PITA.
4. My personal observation of the jacuzzi is (among other things) it did not pass the kick-the-tire test -- too many things seemed either flimsy or trouble-spots over the years. The bigger jacuzzi we tested had a flat waterfall thing which looks like some child tried to sit on it and it was cracked and very broken looking. Make sure you are comfortable that your tub will put up with the kind of unintentional abuse you, your family, and your friends will inflict upon it. It is a hard to quantify measure, but the tub should feel sturdy to you.
-Ed
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the circulation pump on the 880 Series moves 35 gallons per minute as opposed to 5-7 gallons per minute in everyone elses(including Jacuzzi). 50000 gallons filtered per day versus 10000 gallons per day.
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This statement is not true, Beachcomber has 27 GPM =38880 gallons per day on their circ pump(This is just a comment about this fact) Pick the tub you feel right in. No one seems to have anything negative to say about either brand.
Ray
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Sundance and Jacuzzi supposedly come off the same line and have similar warranties. In my quest for a spa, tripped over the J365. Still have to wet test, but why the apparent preference for Sundance? What makes it so superior? The price differential, at least with essentially no haggling, is staggering, not to mention the folks at Jacuzzi were a lot nicer than the Sundance folks. I know the dealer is irrelevant to the hot tub quality, but we're talking a substantial price difference between the J365 and the Optima. Other general comments or knowledge of general Jacuzzi quality also appeciated, first hand preferred. That said, until a wet test proves otherwise, Arctic still reigns first for comfort, but they too are at substantial price disadvantage vs the Jacuzzi.
Hey stlrex, I do own a J-355 Jacuzzi, so I'll give some first hand knowledge here. Yes, I do believe that Jacuzzi slightly less in overall quality and bells and whistles to Sundance, however, they do have their own unique jets. I do rank Jacuzzi way ahead of Sundance's 780 line (Bahia, Cayman, Lagunas, etc.) Jacuzzi has tubs that are much more full featured than that. So that being said, realistically, Jacuzzi is just a notch lower than the 880 line of Sundance and higher than the 780 line. IMHO. The filtering is not an issue to me. I have incredible clear water, using their inline dispenser system and Bromine pucks.
Jacuzzi J-355's and up all have the LCD control panel, almost identical to Sundance.
We have had a Jacuzzi product for almost 1 year now, with no troubles with jets, waterfalls or other issues.
And if we did, the Jacuzzi dealer has bent over backwards with little things, so I'm sure he be there for us.
My humble two cents....
Mark
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I can speak from Orlando regarding Jacuzzi and say that the service for small things like a radio issue and an air switch has been superior as well as the dealer's offer to sell me any accessories at his cost.
As far as the technical stuff, what are the moving parts that are being referred to, and why are people with the moto massage in their tubs that sit on wood bases getting into this discussion? As far as i know, the only "moving" parts are the jets that move from the water propulsion. Also, two pumps driving these jets make plenty of force.
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Many thanks for comments. Sundance was 9K plus on the Optima unless I wanted to take a "scratch and dent" whereas Jacuzzi was just over 7K all inclusive (steps, lift, chems, ozone etc). I didn't see that much difference between the two. The comment on the big pumps on connections designed for smaller pumps gives me pause and they glue their connections, not clamp them like Sundance, but it's definitely worth a wet test in my mind. Sundance touts ISO as a sales gimmick, but Jacuzzi is ISO also.
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As far as the technical stuff, what are the moving parts that are being referred to, and why are people with the moto massage in their tubs that sit on wood bases getting into this discussion?
Because anyone can point out technical discussions, regardless of whether they have the much better moto-massage and completely sealed 20-year proven pressure treated base or not.
I'm assuming that answers your question. If you had a different point, I missed it. Well, that and some of us actually looked at, researched, and wet-tested jacuzzi tubs before running away from them. 8)
-Ed
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Thanks. The explanation was good, but the geek part in the signature was all that was necessary. ;D
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. Sundance touts ISO as a sales gimmick, but Jacuzzi is ISO also.
ISO is just a binder filled with paper controlling all aspects of the manufacturing process to meet a predetermined expectation. If the company sets an expectation of a 50% failure rate and always meet it then they keep their ISO certificate. ISO should not sell a product IMHO.
Ray
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ISO is just a binder filled with paper controlling all aspects of the manufacturing process to meet a predetermined expectation. If the company sets an expectation of a 50% failure rate and always meet it then they keep their ISO certificate. ISO should not sell a product IMHO.
Ray
Yep - if you build it wrong the same way everytime, you're ISO ;D
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ISO is just a binder filled with paper controlling all aspects of the manufacturing process to meet a predetermined expectation. If the company sets an expectation of a 50% failure rate and always meet it then they keep their ISO certificate. ISO should not sell a product IMHO.
Ray
Don't be so quick to knock ISO. Have you ever tried to get a part for a fairly new spa and it's a scramble to figure out what you need? Sometimes you go to get a part from a spa maker and it's a crapshoot as to whether you get the right part as in a given year they may have made the spa 20 different ways and with different parts each month. Some spa makers have about 50 million versions when you look at all the molds and jet options and it's a nightmare. The controls an ISO company has are good for keeping things in line and people accountable. That DOES lead to some degree of improved quality control. It may not affect design much and I'm not saying it should sway someone's buying decision to any large degree. While it may not be equal to the weight the salesman gives it I'd say it is more than a piece of paper.
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Don't be so quick to knock ISO... The controls an ISO company has are good for keeping things in line and people accountable. That DOES lead to some degree of improved quality control. It may not affect design much and I'm not saying it should sway someone's buying decision to any large degree. While it may not be equal to the weight the salesman gives it I'd say it is more than a piece of paper.
I agree. It takes a lot of effort to obtain ISO certification. A company that doesn't care about quality is not going to put in the time and effort it takes to standardize their process and get certified.
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Don't be so quick to knock ISO. Have you ever tried to get a part for a fairly new spa and it's a scramble to figure out what you need? Sometimes you go to get a part from a spa maker and it's a crapshoot as to whether you get the right part as in a given year they may have made the spa 20 different ways and with different parts each month. Some spa makers have about 50 million versions when you look at all the molds and jet options and it's a nightmare. The controls an ISO company has are good for keeping things in line and people accountable. That DOES lead to some degree of improved quality control. It may not affect design much and I'm not saying it should sway someone's buying decision to any large degree. While it may not be equal to the weight the salesman gives it I'd say it is more than a piece of paper.
All I am saying is that ISO doesn't mean quality, it means quality control. If you put in your ISO document that there is no control sheet for parts older than 1 year and less than 6 months and the average days out to source such part is 90 days witha 50% failure rate on finding it.....then you are ISO.
ray
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ISO can be viewed as a plus, but knowing what it means and having worked at least one place that was ISO (and I still have yet to figure out how they received and kept it), it means little to me when the salesperson says we're better than so-and-so because we're ISO.
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ISO can be viewed as a plus, but knowing what it means and having worked at least one place that was ISO (and I still have yet to figure out how they received and kept it), it means little to me when the salesperson says we're better than so-and-so because we're ISO.
Ditto
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I tested the Jacuzzi 365 and 375. 385 was dry. I found the therapy of their static jets to be superior to Sundance. The orifices were larger and weren't as needle like. They have a built in vortex so the water turns a bit coming out, but not much. The tubs had plenty of power. I think the 365 is smaller than we would want. It still does not match the Arctic in therapy. The quality of the tub admittedly does appear to be a step down from Sundance (the diverter valve handle came off when I turned it). But the jets have a nice feel that beats many of the higher priced tubs. We're getting closer to a decision........
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What is the price point on the Sundance and the Jac? List or otherwise. Cost has much to do with a decision...
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Jacuzzi is quoting around $6700 for the J365 which includes sales tax which probably drops it to around $6300. That would put their largest tub well under $8K. I couldn't get a straight price out of Sundance but their vicinity is mid to high $8K's for the Optima with them starting at over $9K
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My Jacuzzi dealer said that Sundance is a more expensive but lower quality spa than the Jacuzzi. No surprise that they would say that.
I looked at the Sundance spas at Pool City and was not real impressed with them. And I was very concerned about the part time kids selling and installing the spas. Between pools, Christmas trees, and patio furniture the spas seemed like an after thought to make a few quick bucks off some vacant floor space.
The local Jacuzzi dealer is far more professional and concentratres solely on hot tubs. That means that when my tub needs service in December, I won't have to wait for the repairman to finish decorating a tree.
What I have learned in order of importance to me: ::)
#1 - do a wet test because the tub must fit you.
#2 - pick a good dealer because when things go wrong, no one on this forum will come out and fix your tub.
#3 - the price. Don't save a dollar now so you can spend 5 later.
We liked the look and feel of the Jacuzzi and I have had good reports from other buyers about the dealer so I bought a J-385 even though it was about $1000 more than I had budgeted. I expect to be happy with it and the dealer for a long time.
stl-rex - I just bought a J-385 for $7589.99 plus tax with a few extras tossed in. (www.spashowcase.com)
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Congrats on chosing a 50 year company that isn't going anywhere. I love my J335 and am very happy with my choice.
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Only thing I can add, as a 3 month owner of an Optima, (first tub ever owned) is it's real nice not having to worry about removing and washing the filter on a monthly basis. Hopefully I won't have to touch it for another 3-6 months. Does the Jacuzzis have the disposable filter also?
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What you are failing to recognize is that Sundance created and manufactures the JacuzziPremium Spas. The high end SD spas will always have the newest changes and engineering. The JP and other SD lines fall in behind those. They are all built in the same place so quaility should be the same and ISO certified for both.
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What you are failing to recognize is that Sundance created and manufactures the JacuzziPremium Spas. The high end SD spas will always have the newest changes and engineering. The JP and other SD lines fall in behind those. They are all built in the same place so quaility should be the same and ISO certified for both.
That may be true, but for the jets that don't rotate, IMHO, Jacuzzi has the better feeling jets (like the ones in their therapeutic chair). The larger orifices give a good deep tissue massage without stinging like I believe the Sundance does.
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Thats exactly why the JacuzziPremium may be best for you. The Sundance 800 series uses the bearingless jets, while the 700 series uses the rotating jets and the JP has their own style jets. Three different sytles to choose from all with a feel of their own.