Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: ketsch5 on August 30, 2005, 06:52:09 am
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anyone heard of arctic hot tubs? they are made in canada. compared them to hot springs and looks like we will get more tub for our $.
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How so?
Brewman
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There's lots of "Discussion" here on the board about Arctic tubs. Try doing a search and I think you'll find threads with many opinions....
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oh boy, here we go ::)
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I too would like to know why you say you would get more tub for your buck?
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There's lots of "Discussion" here on the board about Arctic tubs. Try doing a search and I think you'll find threads with many opinions....
Actually, there are only two.
1. Arctic spas are revolutionary in design
2. No they're not.
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Anyone have a 10' pole?
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I have researched them pretty heavily and caused a few of the heated discussions (unintentionally). ;D I believe they make a fine tub. They do things abit differently as far as insulating the tub goes. I don't think anyone disputes that it works. They dispute that Arctic claims it to be superior. They don't care for some of the marketing tactics such as standing on the cover. What you won't see is a real rip on their overall quality.
You should wet test and select the tub that fits you and feels the best to you. That tub will be the most tub for your money.
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Actually, there are only two.
1. Arctic spas are revolutionary in design
2. No they're not.
Well... do a search again for "Arctic" and change the date range (I used 90 days old) as an example: I found threads on "Arctic filtration" "Arctic Heaters and Pumps" and other misc posts regarding folks experiences and opinions on Arctic tubs. (I know I specifically posted about my experiences with our local Arctic dealer, bu thtat might be older than 90 days) You'll have to change the "# posts to show"option too, I used 100, which wasn't enough as it shows all postings, not just threads.
Also if you look under "Beating a Dead Horse" (the other major forum topic, directly under "General" in the tree) you'll find one right near the top specifically about Arctic Spas. You may have noticed by some of the other responses that this is a bit of touchy subject as of late and "Better" seems to be a subjective term. Best of luck!
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Any questions you have on Arctic I will gladly answer. I have been selling Arctic Spas for 6 Years now. This products is excelent in thearpy, efficency, and accessabilty. You need access to upgrade and fix the spa.
Michael
www.HeavenlyTimes.com
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The worst part of arctic spas are the salespeople. Second to the salespeople is the price. Of course, the two are related. To justify the price consumers need to be convinced that there is a real difference in what they are buying.
Use the search feature, and say 360 or more days to get lots of good debates and smackdowns on this tub.
-Ed
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I love my arcitc and think that it is the greatest because I love it and it fit my budget and family needs. I think that when you say general statements like looks like we will get more tub for our cash tends to make owners, and dealers of other companies upset.
when you ask future questions, just be careful, lots of people sensitive about their product, I know because I am one of them.
Arctic is a great tub and I love it. I hope you wet test and try them all out. The one that fits you best will be the one that you buy.
Brewman, I am suprised that you would make comment like that. You are someone that I classify in high regard and am a little dissapointed with your comment made. Were people not just slamming backpains because of this a few posts ago for making general statements??
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The only people you will find who don't enjoy an Arctic Spa are mostly other spa dealers. Arctic is a relatively small company compared to the major manufactures (especially in the US). However, because of this high quality product it has drawn attention of everyone.
What is wrong with the sales people? We get customers to think about the long term costs of owning a spa. We get people to think about there purchase.
As far as the price you get what you pay for. An Arctic spa is a "Higher Degree of Living" It's very well built spa. It's low on the energy costs. Are we the most expensive "NO" are we the cheapest "NO" If a customer is going to compare apples to apples are prices are completive.
Michael
www.HeavenlyTimes.com
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I don't think that Brewman was taking anyone's side. I believe he owns a Sundance if I'm not mistaken. I got the impression that he was just responding to a single post submitted by ketsch that was somewhat derogatory towards HotSpring. Kind of a hit-and-run post that seems to pop-up from time to time. Brewman cut to the chase in saying that "Some people think Arctic's great, some people don't. Do a search and not re-hash some of this."
I respect your input bosco, and I think you are a great proponent for Arctic and a valued member of this board. I just don't think Brewman was out of line. I also don't mean for this post to sound disrespectful to you in any shape, form, or fashion. :)
Terminator
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Arctic makes a well built spa and the company is very strong behind the product.
Very few Arctic owners are unhappy with their purchase and I would put them in the top 6 or 7 spa makers.
The rest would be to wade through the marketing hype. Unfortunately, they have had some very poor representation on this and others forums from certain salesmen who claim superiority and in turn, made the product seem slimy. Usually, it's simple to weed these guys out and compare the product at face value.
I do question their claims but insist that it is a well made product.
Steve
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Agreed
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The worst part of arctic spas are the salespeople. Second to the salespeople is the price. Of course, the two are related. To justify the price consumers need to be convinced that there is a real difference in what they are buying.
Use the search feature, and say 360 or more days to get lots of good debates and smackdowns on this tub.
-Ed
I'd disagree on the price. The quotes I'm getting for their higher line models aren't out of line with Sundance, HS, Master or Marquis. D1 has been the price leader. It may or may not take a bit more work to arrive at that price, but the same could be said for any saleperson in a given store.
If only I didn't have to consider the price of electric and pad........ :-/
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If only I didn't have to consider the price of electric and pad........ :-/
Electricity should be between $500-1000 on average. A pad can be done in an afternoon with road crush, sand and sidewalk blocks for under $100. You'll have some sweat equity in it but there's no need to pour a pad which is often the misconception.
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tex well put, I like you. Steve, i think my initial impressions of you caused a bit of conflict, but I respect you and find you to be a valuable person on this board.
I cant help but anger when I see a person on his first post, comment about arctic being superior to another tub. this is the crap that gives this company such as bad rap.
I may have read it wrong, but I just find blanket statements to be misleading. I know this is not brewmans normal way of responding, so I just guess that I misread his comments.
tex, I have to say, if I was your way, Im pretty sure that you would be getting my business. your guns scare me a bit, but thats the american way.
In canada are weapon of choice is..... believe it or not, a hockey stick.
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Arctic makes a well built spa and the company is very strong behind the product.
Very few Arctic owners are unhappy with their purchase and I would put them in the top 6 or 7 spa makers.
The rest would be to wade through the marketing hype. Unfortunately, they have had some very poor representation on this and others forums from certain salesmen who claim superiority and in turn, made the product seem slimy. Usually, it's simple to weed these guys out and compare the product at face value.
I do question their claims but insist that it is a well made product.
Steve
Steve,
I must say I totally agree with you.... on both the quality and they way some represent or perhaps misrepresent it. In the end they build a well made spa.
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Second to the salespeople is the price.
Again with the price - for the record - we purchased our Arctic in part because it cost less than the other tubs we were researching.
As an Arctic owner, I come here to this forum as many other consumers do looking for neat tricks and ideas to deal with operating a spa. It is so unfortunate that any thread dealing with Arctic tubs degenerates to the point where it the entire thread is removed and placed in the Beating a Dead Horse forum.
Jc
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Electricity should be between $500-1000 on average. A pad can be done in an afternoon with road crush, sand and sidewalk blocks for under $100. You'll have some sweat equity in it but there's no need to pour a pad which is often the misconception.
I'm guessing a total run between 80 and 100 ft is going to be closer to $1K. I know a pad isn't necessary, but we would be extending the current pad off the basement and it will just look nicer. We're looking at adding 12 x 10 plus a 4 x 4 with rounded corner for aesthetics. The slope is away from the house so it will require fill to level. Hauling gravel and concrete is not at the top of my list of things to do...... Figuring probably $1K for that also.
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Steve, i think my initial impressions of you caused a bit of conflict, but I respect you and find you to be a valuable person on this board.
That's funny...my initial opinion of you was that you seemed a nice guy and THEN it degraded from there! ;) Just teasing bosco! ;D
This forum allows the opinions of many and some defend their product (owning or selling) stronger than others. I do appreciate your kind words and I do try to be helpful most of the time, but for some reason, I've allowed myself to get wound over some of these posts outlining why one product is superior to any other. I've never been one to hide my feelings and I speak my mind. That's how I operate and sometimes it may turn people off. I'm sorry if I previously offeneded you but when I feel strongly about something, I stand by it.
You are a great advocate for Arctic and this forum has needed someone like you for a long time. Others have contributed well but sparatically and I'm glad to see you hang around and voice your intelectual responses with class.
I can only hope that current Arctic salespeople understand this and reconsider their approach.
Good thread guys!
Steve
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Somebody needs to hide this can of worms a little better ???
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Somebody needs to hide this can of worms a little better ???
I'm sorry, I thought the dead horse section was hidden enough 8)
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I don't think that Brewman was taking anyone's side. I believe he owns a Sundance if I'm not mistaken. I got the impression that he was just responding to a single post submitted by ketsch that was somewhat derogatory towards HotSpring. Kind of a hit-and-run post that seems to pop-up from time to time. Brewman cut to the chase in saying that "Some people think Arctic's great, some people don't. Do a search and not re-hash some of this."
I respect your input bosco, and I think you are a great proponent for Arctic and a valued member of this board. I just don't think Brewman was out of line. I also don't mean for this post to sound disrespectful to you in any shape, form, or fashion. :)
Terminator
Thanks, East Tex.
It's been a busy day, and I didn't get as much time as usual to loiter or I'd have chimed in earlier. You got it.
I personally have NOTHING against Arctic spas. In fact, I get my chemicals at the local Arctic dealer- they're very nice and customer service oriented. They even clean my filters free, and I don't even own their spa brand.
My response was meant to be more tounge in cheek than anything, and I probably should have put a winky or some other emoticon on my post.
Brewman
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Brewman...
When I quoted your reply earlier with more specific search direction, I totally misread your post. I thought it was the guy who started the thread and that he really couldn't find any of the Arctic posts..!! ::)
Sorry about that! I re-read things and realized that your post was from you and just a tongue in cheek comment... Oh well.. guess I was still asleep!!
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Not to worry. No harm, no foul. ;D
Brewman
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::) 8) geesh, didn't know that such emotions would be stirred up. we compared the coyote line (C-50) with the Bengal from Hot Springs (comperable tub). we bought a tub that was a demo at the local fair, so got about $1K off of it. I am happy with it so far. I am sure Hot Springs, Marquis, or others are good products also, just felt that we got a better deal from Arctic.
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As far as the price you get what you pay for. An Arctic spa is a "Higher Degree of Living" It's very well built spa. It's low on the energy costs. Are we the most expensive "NO" are we the cheapest "NO" If a customer is going to compare apples to apples are prices are completive.
Michael
www.HeavenlyTimes.com
Sorry but I did not find this to be true. I found there shell thickness to be the same as several others I looked at. I found there overall quality to be the same as several I looked at. I found there skirting material to be better than most but as good as a couple I looked at. I found there comfort to be slightly less than some. but as good as most. I found the noise level to be the highest of all I looked at. I hated there marketing method. I had to price a cover upgrade on all but 2 brands Arctic being one. And they were still more expensive than all I looked at. In my opinion as a 4 year owner of a value line tub that has looked at 20-30 different brands and been in the mechanical industry for 25 years, they are an OK tub like several others out there but not at the top of my list for value.
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This is a new issue for this board, (I think) but rather than start a new thread, I'm adding it to this one hoping it won't get moved to quickly as I'd like opinions. It probably will fire off another debate. Arctic markets their thermo technology as using pump heat to maintain tub temp. I accept the premise that it works. Keeping that tub in a more southern environment, where temps are routinely in the 90's and hit 100, I wonder about pump/electronics longevity since the pumps already operate in a "heated" environment and will more so in the south. Yes there is a 5 year unconditional guarantee and they would be "easy" to replace. But I wonder if the pump environment temps will climb too high to get true longevity. I am not try to start a war. I am carefully evaluating all the pros and cons of the brands we are considering. Because they don't do things traditionally, I have more to evaluate with Arctic. I continue to consider them because their deep therapy seat, available on several models, is the best of any tub we tested. - my opinion of course. Thanks.
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Again with the price - for the record - we purchased our Arctic in part because it cost less than the other tubs we were researching.
Glad you got a deal. It is nice to hear good price stories too.
-Ed
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Arctic markets their thermo technology as using pump heat to maintain tub temp. I accept the premise that it works.
I don't think anyone says that it doesn't work. People argue about what happens for the 20-odd hours a day when the pumps are not running. In a store with an ambient temp in the 70's, probably nothing. In the dead of winter, who knows. For the south? Probably no difference.
Keeping that tub in a more southern environment, where temps are routinely in the 90's and hit 100, I wonder about pump/electronics longevity since the pumps already operate in a "heated" environment and will more so in the south.
The actual chance of a jet pump dying in the first 5 years, I would imagine, is probably low but certainly not unheard of. The real question is, on that 6th year and beyond how much does it take to fix/replace one?
More important than the added stress on the jets is what some people describe as "heat creep". All hot tubs that have any kind of reliable insulation have it.
It's in the middle of summer, it's 95 degrees as night. You have the temp set to 80 to try and cool things off. You open the tub and it reads 102. Blech. What can you do? Leave the cover open just a bit to let some hot air escape. The next night, it's down to around 95. Yay. Same with my Hot Springs. Same with alot of other tubs.
I would imagine with tubs that reclaim from the pump add an extra line to the story:
Now, you get in the tub, turn the pumps on, and after 30 minutes, the temp. is back up to 100. Yuck.
It seems Arctic sells mostly to northern snowy climates where this is not as much of an issue. I wonder if they could somehow modify their design to incorporate a thermal louvre system in the base??
-Ed
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It's in the middle of summer, it's 95 degrees as night.
I would imagine with tubs that reclaim from the pump add an extra line to the story:
Now, you get in the tub, turn the pumps on, and after 30 minutes, the temp. is back up to 100. Yuck.
-Ed
Another point that I left out. Thank you. With the pumps running in a 90 degree climate, even if you use the air jets, it might not stay cool since it would be blowing warm air in. The air pulls from the pump environment first. Interesting scenario and well stated.
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Yes the summer times can be a problem, people don't want there tub at 102. So Arctic has a solution. "Summer Doors". These are doors with no insulation, they have louvers and a screen behind so things can't get in. To get an Arctic too cool down you have to take insulation off the spa. So an Arctic Spa is actually too well insulated.
Arctic’s pumps are a 56 frame as opposed to a 48 frame. The motors are bigger, the bearings are bigger, so the pump should last longer. It also says AMB 50 degrees Celsius. I believe that means the average temperature the pump can run is equal to 122 degrees fairinhite. The cabinet is almost always with in a degree or two of the water temperature. So most of the time your pumps are running at a 102 degree area.
Michael
www.HeavenlyTimes.com
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Yes the summer times can be a problem, people don't want there tub at 102. So Arctic has a solution. "Summer Doors". These are doors with no insulation, they have louvers and a screen behind so things can't get in. To get an Arctic too cool down you have to take insulation off the spa. So an Arctic Spa is actually too well insulated.
Cool. You can modify your Arctic tubs to behave like every other tub on the market! Are the summer doors extra or do they come with the tub. It might be something you want to negotiate with if you are buying such a tub in a warmer climate. Same with possibly getting a thinner, less-heavy cover.
-Ed
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Yes Arctics can be modified. Yes summer doors are extra.
Good luck!
Michael
www.HeavenlyTimes.com
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So in a sense of what your saying is that your insulation design on the arctic spa is flawed because your have to shell out more money for "special summer doors" to prevent the pumps from over heating... it just seems that you re better off buying a different tub where you dont have to buy special
panels and not have to worry about pump failure.
just a quick refence I dont know if this has been mentioned b4 or if anybody cares sorry if it was In the arctic spas 2003 brochure theres a page where it shows a comparison of a tub and house and the heating values at the bottom it tells how the efficiency and other jargon have been evaluted by some utility in colorado but in the new ones on the same page ITS NOT THERE ANYMORE
reason being is that the utility NEVER EXISTED ARCTIC MADE IT UP now how can you honestly buy a tub from a company that bases everything on deciet
It may be a ramble but you Arctic guys really bug me but we all have to make a livin!
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and sorry, bootstuckinmud, which brand did you say you sell again. 2 posts in and already sticking it out there. If you did any type of homework you would understand that high temps plague every tub in the summer months. These doors assist in letting some heat out that all, not a flaw.
Dont make stupid comments if you want to gain respect on your second post.
I mean seriously, why say something like staying away from a brand specifically or TYPING IN CAPITALS THAT ARTIC LIES.
I THINK YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CREDIBILITY ON THIS BOARD, this doesnt make the comment anymore true.
So lets get to the point sir, just tell us what tub we should be buying now..............waiting
See this is what I have been talking about all this time. Some people just make this board terrible.
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I dont know if this has been mentioned b4 or if anybody cares sorry if it was In the arctic spas 2003 brochure theres a page where it shows a comparison of a tub and house and the heating values at the bottom it tells how the efficiency and other jargon have been evaluted by some utility in colorado but in the new ones on the same page ITS NOT THERE ANYMORE
reason being is that the utility NEVER EXISTED ARCTIC MADE IT UP now how can you honestly buy a tub from a company that bases everything on deciet
Perhaps you should check their website and click on "performance reports" before making unsubstantiated accusations. It's http://www.goarctic.com. You are correct in stating performance testing is not in the current brochures. You are incorrect in asserting that it never existed. It's just not in the current brochure.
Perhaps you should rename yourself "footstuckinmouth".
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No the Arctic Tub isn’t flawed, its just too well insulated. It's called Arctic Spa; it's built for the COLD weather. So if a customer wants there spa 102 in the middle of the summer, the spa will work just fine the way it is (with no over-heating of the pump). If a customer wants the spa at 95 the only way that can happen is taking insulation OFF the spa. A customer doesn’t have to buy the doors if they don't want to. Leave the doors off, so there are now NO extra costs. What is so hard to understand about that concept?
I wish people would stop slandering Arctic Spas just because they are losing sales. People need to find out the facts before they post comments about Arctic lying. This happens time and time again where the poster then has a few people back up a post with factual things. The test you’re talking about in the first brochure was conducted in Loveland by a customer (of a full foam spa) who worked for the utility company. He saw an Arctic somewhere (not sure where) and he too couldn't believe that an Arctic was cheaper. So he decided to do the study himself. The results are posted at http://goarctic.com/downloads/performance/Cost%20Comparison-Cold%20Weather.pdf.
Please do a study for yourself.
Michael
www.HeavenlyTimes.com
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Doors off is not appealing, but just one set of doors for one side would probably be sufficient for summer ventilation. I've also heard that Arctic is working on a Chiller for their spa which would actually drop the temperature much like a heater raises it. The technology exists to do that, but I have no idea what it might cost.
I would have preferred to have the name of the foam filled spa on the paper. I didn't see it. "Foam-filled-spa" could be a Sams special which we all know isn't the same as HS/Sundance/D1 etc. It would have lent credibility to the report. The ARC report, which also casts Arctic in a positive light however does list names/models and also appears on the Arctic website.
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Hmm the chiller is a new to me. I will ask about that product in December during our annual dealer seminar.
Since there was only one spa they took the name off. However the full foam spa was a Sundance.
Well I would get two summer doors and put them on opposite sides of the spa. This way you get cross ventilation. If someone doesn’t want to spend few extra dollars on doors you can purchase a piece of screen and staple it to where the door would be.
Michael
www.HeavenlyTimes.com
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Doors off is not appealing, but just one set of doors for one side would probably be sufficient for summer ventilation.
It is a standard critique of the insulation method. Put the pumps in with the water and the pumps will help heat the water. As pumps are not actually controlled heaters, you get uncontrollable heat which is a pain no matter what, summer or winter. If it is the dead of winter and I want my tub at 101, I want it at 101, not 103, not 104.
Even sans "summer doors" (or, apparently, stapling a screen to the side of your tub where a door should be) the pumps do need ventilation.
There is no question that this kind of setup can work. The question is can it work in common consumer situations and/or does it work better than other far more mainstream and tested techniques. The jury, for me, is still out on that.
As an aside, most major manufacturers (I know HS does) reclaim pump heat and use it to help heat the water. Ask Chas on here for details, he has posted pictures in the past.
I've also heard that Arctic is working on a Chiller for their spa which would actually drop the temperature much like a heater raises it. The technology exists to do that, but I have no idea what it might cost.
Again, that sounds like a "hack turned feature" to, possibly, account for the design above. Adding layers of complexity as a problem-solving strategy to long-life systems is not always sound engineering. But, that is, frankly, an off-the-cuff judgement.
I would have preferred to have the name of the foam filled spa on the paper. I didn't see it. "Foam-filled-spa" could be a Sams special which we all know isn't the same as HS/Sundance/D1 etc. It would have lent credibility to the report. The ARC report, which also casts Arctic in a positive light however does list names/models and also appears on the Arctic website.
The biggest problem with the reports that arctic publishes is the cover thickness. Barring gross side insulation errors, most heat in a tub, especially in cold temperatures, is lost through the top. This is because the insulation material is thinner (you don't want a 20" thick cover) and the "seal" around the hot tub shell is not airtight.
The Arctic cover is something like 2x thicker. It is better insulation, it is standard on the tubs. it is overkill in some applications and not in others. It is NOT unheard of, in cold weather areas, to purchase a "cover upgrade" for almost any manufacturer's tub.
What shocked me about the test (if is is the one which mentions HS) is how close the arctic and HS came in terms of energy efficiency. And that was with arctic having a HUGE cover advantage. This leads me to believe that HS has superior side-insulation and that were a similarly beefy cover to be put on the HS it would blow the pants off of the arctic (if, indeed, artic tubs wore pants). Were I to be in a cold climate (like -30deg cold climate), I would purchase a HS with an upgraded cover.
Now, beleive it or not that isn't a HS commercial. If you don't like a HS tub, don't buy it.
My point was the depressing abuse of numbers as a sales tactic. The study is not sold based on the caveats that make it independent and scientific. It is sold on the ability to downplay those things which even out the playing field and up-play strawman arguments to help show tubs.
-Ed
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I've always wondered about that thermal area that uses the pumps heat to keep costs down. If the spa has to be running to keep heat generateing around the spa cabinet area. How can that be efficient? Air space in cold weather will become cold very quickly. I have a feeling that the 3-4 amp motor will have to run a lot during the day to keep temperature in the water. Has there ever been a third party test from Coleman, Arctic or Master that stated official testing standards by equipment and not theory?
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Can you imagine if this ever happens and gets published. Posts would decline prertty fast.
http://www.poolspanews.com/2001/052/052topnews.html#a
I don't know how old the article is though.
Ray
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I've always wondered about that thermal area that uses the pumps heat to keep costs down. If the spa has to be running to keep heat generateing around the spa cabinet area. How can that be efficient? Air space in cold weather will become cold very quickly. I have a feeling that the 3-4 amp motor will have to run a lot during the day to keep temperature in the water. Has there ever been a third party test from Coleman, Arctic or Master that stated official testing standards by equipment and not theory?
I wish there was a third party unsponsored test. The ARC test posted on the Arctic site was sponsored by Arctic. I don't believe the numbers on the test are fabricated, but it would be more credible if completely unbiased. Of course the only way to do that is for someone to purchase spas from a dealer, much like Consumer Reports, and report the results. Sorry, I'm fresh out of the $100K or more necessary to conduct the test.
If they come out with a Chiller and it was thermoelectric based, the Peltier technology has been around for a while and is proven. Sure it's something else to break.
But the truly bottom line is how the spa fits for you. I may be mistaken, but many who dismiss Arctic haven't wet tested one or more models. They're not for everyone, but neither is every other spa. While we haven't made our minds up, we happen to like the sculpted seats on the Tundra model and find them as comfortable or more so than anything else we tested.
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While we haven't made our minds up, we happen to like the sculpted seats on the Tundra model and find them as comfortable or more so than anything else we tested.
That's the most important part. Take the worst case scenario: You get an Arctic spa and it has problems, leaks, whatever (referencing Bill's comments from another thread) what would you rather have:
A hot tub with 100% uptime but less comfort or a hot tub with 95% uptime and more comfort?
In the long run it is about comfort.You gotta find the spa that fits your body height/weight/pressure points/whatever (and those of your family).
-Ed
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Ed's right (as always) ;) but I would also add the quality of the dealer as a deciding factor as well.
Steve
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Any spa can leak. Arctic. Hot Springs, Cal Spa, D-1, Sundance, etc... If a customer asks me what can break on my spa, I will flat out tell them everything. Not that everything will break, but everything can break. Every jet, every pump, every hose line, the heater, the electronics, the topside, the list can go on and on. Every spa that anyone sells will break just the same. Every car will break, every TV will break, and every mechanical thing will break. So every spa will have down time. So the question is can you fix it and how fast? With an Arctic you can see everything, so the down time will be reduced if there is a problem.
Michael
www.HeavenlyTimes.com
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Hi there. listed below are my personal findings from wet testing the Tundra LE, Summit LE, and the Frontier LE. I cannot stress enough how important it is to wet test Arctic spas due to the specialized sculpting of the seats. Some people absolutely love the feel of the seats and the layout, but they definitely don't fit everyone; myself included (5' 6" ~205 lbs).
P.S. My full wet test report is located at http://www.members.cox.net/duffman471/Spa_Wet_Testing_Analysis.htm
Arctic Spas Review:
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As a neutral comment I would like to state my observations on the insulation design they advertise. I have read the “independent” study available on the Arctic website that evaluated efficiency for numerous competitors. While Arctic came out on top in this report it should be noted that the conditions for the test went as low as negative 13 degrees C (8.6 deg F). I contacted Arctic and two dealers who agreed that unless you have very cold winters, the cost to operate would not be significantly different then other spas. Personally I like the engineering of Arctic’s design but since I live by Washington DC, I would not expect to save a significant amount money on electricity. If I lived in Minnesota I might have a very different opinion.
The features I liked best include:
(a) Spa shell material and thickness. I have heard of few cases where a spa’s shell cracked but I felt comfortable that I would not have any concerns in this area with the Arctic.
(b) I liked the variety and placement of jets in the upper-level packages. There is also a very powerful whirpool jet which adds a great massage option to the spas.
(c) I felt that the two motor systems had a good power level for most users but require use of the diverter valve to get the most out of any seat. The versions with three motors provided significant improvement in performance.
(d) From the brands I have researched I think Arctic provides the most solid cover. It has a metal sheet inside it for reinforcement. I will not confirm Arctic’s claim that it insulates better then other covers, but I do believe it is likely the strongest and will probably last much longer. However, it is heavy enough that you will probably want a cover lifter for it.
(e) The "forever floor" used on the base of all Arctic spas appears to be the most durable compared to any other brand I have inpected. It looks like there is great seal for protection from insects getting inside. Also, it is the only floor that I have seen that does not require a solid base (e.g., wood, brick, pavers, packed gravel, or concrete). Arctic claims you can place their spas on level ground without any special base.
The features I disliked were:
(a) Arctic seems to have the most seat sculpting for any of the spas I have seen. Not only does this type of shell use up a lot of space in all the tub (the Tundra model is an exception), some of the corner seats were actually snug and a bit uncomfortable for me (I'm a big guy but not huge <5'6", 210 lbs>). To better understand what I mean about using up space, note that four out of the six "8 foot" Arctic spas only hold 380-418 gallons of water (of course if you like these models, the decreased volume will certainly cost less to heat). Only the Avalanche and Tundra models hold 490-540 gallons which is more consistent with most 8' spas I have seen (typically around 500 gal). It should also be noted that when I asked about small side seats in the Tundra and the small corner seat in the Frontier and Summit, the dealer and Arctic rep I talked to said these seats were designed with women in mind. You’ll just have to try it yourself. If you have a smaller waistline, these seats might be perfect for you. To be fair though, I really liked the sculpted upper and lower arm rests, and the wrist jets were well placed on the corner seats.
(b) I felt the availability of foot jets was limited, even on the top end models. On the Tundra model, there are dedicated foot jets for two of the corner seats but you have to be 5' tall or less to comfortable use them. I had to bend my lower legs back underneath my knees to get my feet on them. On other models the foot jets were more difficult to reach from the large captain's chairs
(c) When inspecting the plumbing inside one of the 8' models I noticed that there was a bit of water seeping from multiple tube connections. The dealer's response to this was that the water in that spa was at room temperature, and that once the spa was heated to operating temperature, the silicone in the PVC connectors would expand and provide a proper seal. When I initially wrote up my opinion on this I figured the dealer was just giving me a reason not to look at the Arctic negatively. However, I just talked to another Arctic rep today who confirmed that this can indeed happen. I have to wonder if this happens with other spas.
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Any spa can leak. Arctic. Hot Springs, Cal Spa, D-1, Sundance, etc... If a customer asks me what can break on my spa, I will flat out tell them everything. Not that everything will break, but everything can break. Every jet, every pump, every hose line, the heater, the electronics, the topside, the list can go on and on. Every spa that anyone sells will break just the same. Every car will break, every TV will break, and every mechanical thing will break. So every spa will have down time. So the question is can you fix it and how fast? With an Arctic you can see everything, so the down time will be reduced if there is a problem.
Michael
www.HeavenlyTimes.com
Now lets put this into perspective Mike. If a repair guy must fix your tub and the leak takes 1 hour to fix on a 3/4 foam tub (which is what I call any of the number of brands that have foam on the shell but are not full foam.) and it takes 45 minutes on the Arctic. How much is he going to bill you.....yep 1 hour. So I am not sure a cost savings is realized in the repair. Now in a FF tub there may certainly be more cost to a repair to a line but if it leaks in the lines 50-75 percent less and if 90-95 percent of all leaks are in the equipment area is there truely a cost savings there worth using as a sales pitch?
I don't sell tubs I am a 25 year plumber.
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Ed's right (as always) ;) but I would also add the quality of the dealer as a deciding factor as well.
Steve
*yes* Steve is absolutely correct. Sometimes the only difference between a tub that is down for 2 days or 2 weeks is going to be the quality of the dealer!
-Ed