Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: crapjack on July 26, 2005, 09:51:28 pm
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Hi all! I am looking at buying an Arctic "Yukon" elite and am wondering how other Arctic spa owners like their tubs-any issues. I live in Northern Ontario Canada and it can get quite cold in winter averaging -20 celcius. The Arctic seems to have some good cold weather features--the way they insulate TP and keeping pump in heated air space in case of power outage in winter hate for pump and plumbing to freeze and thick covers, which have caught my attention. Just looking for some feedback from other Arctic owners and or other cold weather spa owners on what to look for.
thanks for your help
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Here's one question that you can try and get answered as I have never been able to.
They rely so heavily on the pumps keeping this empty space within the spa heated in the brutal cold of Northern Ontario.
That being said, when, in your mind, do the pumps generate a great deal of heat? I'll give you this one...when they are running on high speed. So, assuming you are using your spa and hour a day, everyday (which is VERY high usage), then what is keeping that empty cabinet warm for the other 23 hours per day at -30 C when those pumps are not running at all or on a low, circulation speed?
We know these spas are not 100% thermally sealed and any reputable Arctic salesperson will agree. They need to cool the pumps as well as inject air into that cabinet for air injection into the jets.
Ask that one question to your salesman and I'd love to hear the response if you get it. I've never had an Arctic salesperson that could clearly explain this to me in all the years. Thanks.
Steve
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Ok so I believe the question, was owners how do you like the quality of the spa. Mine is coming today. I cant wait.
When considering this tub, dont buy into the crap about best insulated and the most superior tub. I would honestly have to say that most tubs out there are on equal playing fields.
So lets cut out the tp vs. ff debate. The tub is well built, looks great and has alot to offer. You are supporting a nice canadian built product which is nice as well.
Oh and lets not forget the dealers out there. You will hear many leave messages that say, "you tell me where... or you tell me how...."
Your question was posted right. You asked owners about them not dealers. So for the sake of keeping this post from going like all the other ones that have the word ARCTIC in them, lets let people like JCDENTON, and SPAZZ answer his question.
I just get so dissapointed from you dealers that think that your product is the best and come on here and slam a product rather than giving any sound info.
So Steve, what details can you provide about how they are as an owner of one. You look like you sell hydropools. Hows buisness. You must be raking it in with sales approach like that. Why dont you focus your time and energy on other things than waiting for an arctic post to hit and then slam it.
I agree with you, the sales pitches and tactics are a little out there. Who wants to see a goofy sales guy jumping on the top. And anyone who has an education that the stats that Arctic has have been worked to represent them in a positive manor. But lets face it, who doesnt. Thats the beauty of stats.
So what about the users. How many times have you heard an owner come on here and say that the product was garbage or that the service was terrible. I can recall one post that a guy was upset with his tub and the factory gave him a brand new one.
So to me, I would have to say good quality tubs, happy customers, and great customer support.
The tp vs. ff debate has been destroyed here. Many tub companies now offer the option.
So the next time someone comes on and asks about your tub brand that you sell, should I slam the product to be at your level. Look back in the post that was just brought up about your brand. I offered my thoughts based on a relatives expierence as well as a friends from work.
Sorry to be so long winded Steve, but emails like yours just get under my skin and dissapoint me. The hole purpose of this forum is to assist people, not to discourage them. After all that is your job once they come to your store.
Please lets consider being a little less buisness driven here and lets help people that truly need it.
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There is a lot of comments on Artic vs other spas. I'm not an Artic salesperson, nor an owner. I did breifley look at an Artic when shopping for a new tub.
A neighbor of a familly member has a Artic tub. He has it outside on his deck in N.E. After 1.5 years he's says he's happy with it. No major problems.
I found the tub to be a bit loud for me. Also it seemed a bit expesive for what you were getting. I ended up buy a Caspain by Tiger River. It's a smaller tub, but has full foam insualtion, (quieter, and depending on who you talk to, better insulation qualities) a 24 hour circ pump and cheaper.
Take a look at the Artic line, but don't rule out others such as Hotspring before you make your final decision. :)
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I have been shopping for a hot tub for the better part of a year now and have looked at D-1, Jac, Nordic, Marquis, Bullfrog, Royal, Artesian, Cal, Caldera, Viking, Master Spa, Coleman, Emerald, Arctic, HS, Great Lakes and Thermospa on TV. In terms of overall construction, Arctic is the best with Emerald a very close second. Do yourself a favor and email the Arctic owners in the review section. That will give you honest customer opinion and no dealer opinion which is what you are asking for.
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Ok so I believe the question, was owners how do you like the quality of the spa. Mine is coming today. I cant wait.
When considering this tub, dont buy into the crap about best insulated and the most superior tub. I would honestly have to say that most tubs out there are on equal playing fields.
Ignoring the rest of the troll, just stick with what is above. The hyperbole surrounding arctic is incorrect, as you, an "almost-arctic-owner" so clearly pointed out.
Too many people come here with the starting point of "Arctic is better engineered" and "Arctic is the best when it comes to cold climates" and it is not true, again, as you yourself have pointed out.
It is not a TP versus FF issue. There are TP manufacturers out there that don't do it like Arctic. It's myopic to think there is only one style of TP, and Steve pointed out a valid and *never* answered question about Arctic spas.
If they are going to sell the idea that in a power outage their spas hold up better, they are, in my opinion, lying and selling based on fear. Want one particular reason why this is a problem with the Arcit design? Go up some and read Steve's post.
Not only are there equivalently insulated tubs out there, but there are *better* insulated tubs out there, and I can try and show you that using their own "independent" study.
Crapjack, the only valid Arctic salespoint you mentioned was that the Arctic spa comes with a thicker cover standard. Make no mistake, it's not a freebie and it is factored into the price. Upgrade any other quality tub (HS comes to mind) with a similarly thick cover and you have a far better insulated hot tub.
Disclaimer: I own a HS, but I don't have anything vested in what kind of tub you buy.
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I just get so dissapointed from you dealers that think that your product is the best and come on here and slam a product rather than giving any sound info.
Apologies for the double post, but you do realize that in recent history the most caustic, myopic, and insulting dealers that have posted on this forum have been Arctic dealers.
You do realize this, right?
You have been reading the other threads, right?
You do, uh, know how to use the search feature, right?
:o
Astonished....
-Ed
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Don't get your panties in a knot bosco...it was a simple question that was asked nicely IMO and I would like answered. If a consumer researching spas can't answer it, they should find out.
Can you answer it? Obviously not so you chose to become argumentitive about it. It's a simple question without slamming anyone. Sheeesh man, take freakin pill. ::)
Steve
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I have been shopping for a hot tub for the better part of a year now and have looked at D-1, Jac, Nordic, Marquis, Bullfrog, Royal, Artesian, Cal, Caldera, Viking, Master Spa, Coleman, Emerald, Arctic, HS, Great Lakes and Thermospa on TV. In terms of overall construction, Arctic is the best with Emerald a very close second.
I believe what Fatman meant to say was that in his humble opinion, the pitch that he was sold by Actic lead him to believe that the overall construction of the Arctic was "The Best" with the Emerald a close second. ;) Afterall, I think Kraft Mac and Cheese is the best, and my wife prefers Velveeta. ;D
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Just looking for some feedback from other Arctic owners and or other cold weather spa owners on what to look for.
Keep the opinions coming.
Sorry Bosco, this guy asked for help from not only Arctic owners but ALL those who have cold weather spas.
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I believe what Fatman meant to say was that in his humble opinion, the pitch that he was sold by Actic lead him to believe that the overall construction of the Arctic was "The Best" with the Emerald a close second. ;) Afterall, I think Kraft Mac and Cheese is the best, and my wife prefers Velveeta. ;D
I know a guy in Colorado who buys generic boxes of Mac & Cheese and relabels them as Heavenly CheezyMac and tries to convince everyone it is the Food of the Gods. He only sells about 4 cases a month, mostly to people who camp outside Roswell waiting for the spaceship to come take them away.
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I know a guy in Colorado who buys generic boxes of Mac & Cheese and relabels them as Heavenly CheezyMac and tries to convince everyone it is the Food of the Gods. He only sells about 4 cases a month, mostly to people who camp outside Roswell waiting for the spaceship to come take them away.
Now, the only question is: Is that Heavenly Cheesy Mac "FDA" listed, I mean approved??? ;D
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I do read the posts and if you checked a search, when those artic people come on, im the first one to criticise them.
Dont treat me like some fool. I have been on this board and have read every post.
astonished is people like you that just sit around and wait for a kill.
bottom line is they are buying into something that we all share a common interest in. The problem being that some dealers would rather slam another product rather than explaining to people.
So bottom line as all of my posts have been, the best tub is the one that fits you and your needs. I could care less if it was a home depot tub.
If you do a search, honestly do one. Anytime I come on about Arctic, I am the first to talk about thier BS sales pitches and claims to be the best.
It was the best tub for me, I just dont appreciate hearing everytime the word ARCTIC is mentioned that they are crap, or they are inferior tubs.
Sorry to make you angry but I think you may be a little out of line on your post there ebirrane. Dont treat me with disrespect or like an idiot, I would never do that to you or anbody else. Your opinions are one thing, but to try to insult is just down right rediculous.
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steve my panties are not in a bunch as you so nicely put it.
Think as a consumer who purchased a product. Every time I log on, someone is arguing about Arctic Spas. If you dont like them thats fine by me.
I agree that the sales pitches are bull shit and that many customers are misinformed. But lets not slam a hole product because of it. You guys make me feel like I have purchased a crappy tub from a guy in Colorado. I would honestly argue in my opinion that Arctic is a great tub.
I am sorry for getting upset with you Steve and I dont try to make waves with people. I am non confrontational and maybe my post might of sounded a little hostile, it was not my intentions. It is just frustrating having to read post after post slamming the product I just bought.
Sorry again Steve, just frustrated. I guess it is hard to be excited about my new arrival when I see posts always discouraging arctic.
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Ok so I believe the question, was owners how do you like the quality of the spa. Mine is coming today. I cant wait.
When considering this tub, dont buy into the crap about best insulated and the most superior tub. I would honestly have to say that most tubs out there are on equal playing fields.
So lets cut out the tp vs. ff debate. The tub is well built, looks great and has alot to offer. You are supporting a nice canadian built product which is nice as well.
Oh and lets not forget the dealers out there. You will hear many leave messages that say, "you tell me where... or you tell me how...."
Your question was posted right. You asked owners about them not dealers. So for the sake of keeping this post from going like all the other ones that have the word ARCTIC in them, lets let people like JCDENTON, and SPAZZ answer his question.
I just get so dissapointed from you dealers that think that your product is the best and come on here and slam a product rather than giving any sound info.
So Steve, what details can you provide about how they are as an owner of one. You look like you sell hydropools. Hows buisness. You must be raking it in with sales approach like that. Why dont you focus your time and energy on other things than waiting for an arctic post to hit and then slam it.
I agree with you, the sales pitches and tactics are a little out there. Who wants to see a goofy sales guy jumping on the top. And anyone who has an education that the stats that Arctic has have been worked to represent them in a positive manor. But lets face it, who doesnt. Thats the beauty of stats.
So what about the users. How many times have you heard an owner come on here and say that the product was garbage or that the service was terrible. I can recall one post that a guy was upset with his tub and the factory gave him a brand new one.
So to me, I would have to say good quality tubs, happy customers, and great customer support.
The tp vs. ff debate has been destroyed here. Many tub companies now offer the option.
So the next time someone comes on and asks about your tub brand that you sell, should I slam the product to be at your level. Look back in the post that was just brought up about your brand. I offered my thoughts based on a relatives expierence as well as a friends from work.
Sorry to be so long winded Steve, but emails like yours just get under my skin and dissapoint me. The hole purpose of this forum is to assist people, not to discourage them. After all that is your job once they come to your store.
Please lets consider being a little less buisness driven here and lets help people that truly need it.
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You should have bought a MASTER thats a lot of fun watchin the kids run around throwin junk kickin and screamin like .............well ..........like .........kids ;D its really comical ......all ya gotta do is put MASTER, ARTIC, ***SPAS,CAL SPA, etc. and watch the fireworks, name callin fire breathing children come out ...............
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WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You should have bought a MASTER thats a lot of fun watchin the kids run around throwin junk kickin and screamin like .............well ..........like .........kids ;D its really comical ......all ya gotta do is put MASTER, ARTIC, ***SPAS,CAL SPA, etc. and watch the fireworks, name callin fire breathing children come out ...............
That would make the the adult? ??? Naw, I've never been accused of that.
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...all ya gotta do is put MASTER, ARTIC, ***SPAS,CAL SPA, etc. and watch the fireworks...
That's true to a certain extent, but it is usually precipitated by a supposed "shopper" quoting the company/dealer sales pitches as fact (see the original post here), which brings out quick rebuttals. The usual pattern is for the original "just looking for info" poster to defend their product, which seems unusual if they were truly looking for help. Unfortunately, the antics of these "pot-stirrers" makes it hard for you happy owners to look forward to reading a thread with your brand in the title. If you read this board regularly, I think you'd have to agree the folks that you just branded "name callin children" actually put in quite a bit of time providing help and information, while the "attacked posters" seldom contribute beyond their own threads. Whose motives should be questioned?
FYI, I have no skin in this game. I'm a consumer that owns a brand not often discussed on this forum. I just appreciate the efforts of MOST of the industry people on this forum.
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FYI, I have no skin in this game. I'm a consumer that owns a brand not often discussed on this forum. I just appreciate the efforts of MOST of the industry people on this forum.
That was overall a pretty good post. I too own one of those brands that seldom gets mentioned here. and I try to not use my duties as moderator to change that. But its a real catch-22 in many cases. I'm stuck in between defending the new people with "suspicious questions" and our valuded industry professionals here, that I would like to meet someday. Frequently I am the most suspicious. As long as things stay civil all I can do is hope people read everything and weighs its value. I've been online for more than 20 years now, and have learned not to get too worked up about anything I see online.
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I believe what Fatman meant to say was that in his humble opinion, the pitch that he was sold by Actic lead him to believe that the overall construction of the Arctic was "The Best" with the Emerald a close second. ;) Afterall, I think Kraft Mac and Cheese is the best, and my wife prefers Velveeta. ;D
No. You are wrong. What I meant to say is exactly what I did say. No hidden meanings at all. When I go to any dealership to look at hot tubs I take my sweet time in doing so. I take a very good look at the hot tub and always have the dealer open up the cabinet. Usually the dealer is happy to go find his cordless drill and take a few screws out of the cabinet so I can look. I always go past the sales pitch too. After a while most dealers run out of memorized pitch and are more open to questions. I can usually get them to sling a little mud about their competition as well. That tells me a something of their sales technique and their character overall. I pay attention to what dealers say, what they don't say, their body language, how they are dressed and their overall attitude. I have talked with dealers who are just starting their own business and well established millionares who could retire anytime and are selling tubs just for a hobby. Spotting a well constructed hot tub is fairly easy to do especially if you look in the cabinet and the bottom also. Believe me, I don't fall for the razzle dazzle that some dealers spew. So yes, I do believe Arctic is the best built tub on the market. They also have the best cover, not because you can stand on it but because it doesn't get waterlogged. I see nothing wrong with a cover that doesn't have to be replaced every 3-4 years. It's called value and quality.
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steve my panties are not in a bunch as you so nicely put it.
Think as a consumer who purchased a product. Every time I log on, someone is arguing about Arctic Spas. If you dont like them thats fine by me.
I agree that the sales pitches are bull shit and that many customers are misinformed. But lets not slam a hole product because of it. You guys make me feel like I have purchased a crappy tub from a guy in Colorado. I would honestly argue in my opinion that Arctic is a great tub.
I am sorry for getting upset with you Steve and I dont try to make waves with people. I am non confrontational and maybe my post might of sounded a little hostile, it was not my intentions. It is just frustrating having to read post after post slamming the product I just bought.
Sorry again Steve, just frustrated. I guess it is hard to be excited about my new arrival when I see posts always discouraging arctic.
No need to apologize. Maybe my question should have been separate from this thread, but instead I saw it as an opportunity for clarification on something I've been trying to find out for years.
If you look at my history of posts, I don't SLAM other brands but I do question certain methods. Same could be said here. I've always believed that Arctic makes a good spa and more important, they are a strong company with a great history of customer service.
I do wish you the very best with yours bosco and I'm sure you'll love it. I mean that with all genuineness.
I just wanted to know the answer to my question and this thread gave me the opportunity ( timed wrong maybe :-/ ) to question it and give an opportunity to have a buying customer to ask the same.
No offense taken and I'm sorry for my antagonism in response.
Steve
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No. You are wrong. What I meant to say is exactly what I did say. No hidden meanings at all. When I go to any dealership to look at hot tubs I take my sweet time in doing so. I take a very good look at the hot tub and always have the dealer open up the cabinet. Usually the dealer is happy to go find his cordless drill and take a few screws out of the cabinet so I can look. I always go past the sales pitch too. After a while most dealers run out of memorized pitch and are more open to questions. I can usually get them to sling a little mud about their competition as well. That tells me a something of their sales technique and their character overall. I pay attention to what dealers say, what they don't say, their body language, how they are dressed and their overall attitude. I have talked with dealers who are just starting their own business and well established millionares who could retire anytime and are selling tubs just for a hobby. Spotting a well constructed hot tub is fairly easy to do especially if you look in the cabinet and the bottom also. Believe me, I don't fall for the razzle dazzle that some dealers spew. So yes, I do believe Arctic is the best built tub on the market. They also have the best cover, not because you can stand on it but because it doesn't get waterlogged. I see nothing wrong with a cover that doesn't have to be replaced every 3-4 years. It's called value and quality.
How many Arctic spas have you owned? have you ever owned a spa? If I'm not mistaking, you have been shopping for over a year however, have not purchased yet. Seems to me, if that is the case, you have no way to justify your claims other then what you belive to be true. And that is fine with me. You are alloted your opinions... But when they are your opinions, don't claim one to be the "best" without stating that it is just that, your opinion. ;)
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They also have the best cover, not because you can stand on it but because it doesn't get waterlogged. I see nothing wrong with a cover that doesn't have to be replaced every 3-4 years. It's called value and quality.
WOW...I didn't know this. Their "forever cover" never gets waterlogged and lasts the life of the spa? ???
Steve
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WOW...I didn't know this. Their "forever cover" never gets waterlogged and lasts the life of the spa? ???
Steve
Those kind of comments are what brought on my post. As you Steve, I don't have a tendency to bash other MFG's, but comments of the best this and best that coming from someone who has never owned brand x,y,or z is in no position to make these outlandish claims. :P
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How many Arctic spas have you owned? have you ever owned a spa? If I'm not mistaking, you have been shopping for over a year however, have not purchased yet. Seems to me, if that is the case, you have no way to justify your claims other then what you belive to be true. And that is fine with me. You are alloted your opinions... But when they are your opinions, don't claim one to be the "best" without stating that it is just that, your opinion. ;)
What does ownership have to do with a hot tubs quality? A Rolls Royce is far superior to a GM but I will never own a Rolls Royce. As far as opinions go, doesn't every dealer, customer and potential customer have some sort of opinion? Every week there is a newbie to this site asking "which hot tub is the best" and every week dealers speak up saying "Sundance, HS, Marquis, D-1 and Jac". Nothing wrong with that either, it's the American way. Case closed.
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What does ownership have to do with a hot tubs quality? A Rolls Royce is far superior to a GM but I will never own a Rolls Royce. As far as opinions go, doesn't every dealer, customer and potential customer have some sort of opinion? Every week there is a newbie to this site asking "which hot tub is the best" and every week dealers speak up saying "Sundance, HS, Marquis, D-1 and Jac". Nothing wrong with that either, it's the American way. Case closed.
Ownership has everything to do with what you or I or anyone else feels a quality spa is. For all I know, a rolls can be a piece of sh##, I never owned one. You see, I had nothing to base my opinion on. Get it!!! ;)
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Sorry to make you angry but I think you may be a little out of line on your post there ebirrane. Dont treat me with disrespect or like an idiot, I would never do that to you or anbody else. Your opinions are one thing, but to try to insult is just down right rediculous.
Bosco, I wasn't trying to insult you. Honestly. Were I trying to insult or "go in for the kill", I could do much, much better. :P
I'm sorry your feelings were hurt, but I do stand by everything I said.
The problem is, and you mentioned it in your reply to Steve, that these responses make you feel bad about the tub you just purchased. These things are valid criticisms of the product that come up often and are often met with nothing other than hyperbole. Rather than being offended because it makes you feel bad about your latest purchase, be happy that you have an opporunity here to learn about the strengths *and* the weaknesses of your tub. Knowing the weaknesses will help you take better care of the tub and handle emergencies better. Weaknesses or no, it's the best tub for you because it felt the best when you wet tested it.
People new to shopping only get the sales pitches and they have a right to be able to come on here and understand how to tone down sales pitches and, it just so happens, the canonical Arctic salespitch (as related on this board) needs MORE toning down than the others.
-Ed
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Bosco, I wasn't trying to insult you. Honestly. Were I trying to insult or "go in for the kill", I could do much, much better. :P
I'm sorry your feelings were hurt. I stand by everything I said.
-Ed
You're a funny guy Ed! ;D
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You're a funny guy Ed! ;D
*sigh* I'll learn this olive-branch thing eventually...
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I do believe Arctic is the best built tub on the market. They also have the best cover, not because you can stand on it but because it doesn't get waterlogged.
I guess I need to understand what best-built means. I'm not trying to argue best or worst. I'm a self-proclaimed hot tub geek, and I don't understand your assessment. Below is my assessment and I was hoping that you would jump in with some specifics to better educate me and/or prove me wrong...
If it means "able to withstand impacts", I think other tub makers have better or as good shell construction.
If it means best at retaining heat (this is a "hot tub" after all) I think a few others eke past them in heat retention (a.k.a insulation efficiency). In the Arctic study, HS was about equivalent to the Arctic in insulation, and the HS had a cover that was half the thickness of an Arctic. Put an as-thick cover on the HS and I'd bet it would have out-performed the Arctic.
If it means best in emergency situations, the venting of the air pocket generates lots of questions. Unless that shell is vented through bi-metallic spring louvers, you've got problems when the power goes out as they have an "active" heating system which won't work in a power outage. That's why, IMO, other TP styles put a few inches (at least) of insulation on the shell inside. You simply can't guarantee the thermal properties of that air space.
I agree that the stock Arctic cover is thicker and therefore better than thinner covers that other manufacturers sell. Maybe Dr. Spa can comment on the water retention of the cover. I think it is better because it is thicker. But take a different tub and upgrade its cover (a common suggestion in colder climates) and I think we are back to even again.
-Ed
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I'd like to see members who are salesmen or own thier own dealership be identified somehow. Yea, some people will pose as customers,but for the most part it helps me keep straight who's a dealer, and who's a consumer.
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I'd like to see members who are salesmen or own thier own dealership be identified somehow. Yea, some people will pose as customers,but for the most part it helps me keep straight who's a dealer, and who's a consumer.
HS dealer, South Florida, soon to be vacationing dealer in the Outer banks 8)
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I'm a shopper posing as a know it all industry insider with an attitude. ;D
Steve
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HS dealer, South Florida, soon to be vacationing dealer in the Outer banks 8)
Thanks Pkud. I was thinking more along the lines of soemthing in our sig areas. It makes it easier when reading replies where they are comming from.
just a suggestion.
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Better Drewstar?
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Ah, so you sell sofa's too?
;)
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Ownership has everything to do with what you or I or anyone else feels a quality spa is. For all I know, a rolls can be a piece of sh##, I never owned one. You see, I had nothing to base my opinion on. Get it!!! ;)
Have a beer and mellow out. Sheeesh! We are talking hot tubs here not life and death issues. Ease up.
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Have a beer and mellow out. Sheeesh! We are talking hot tubs here not life and death issues. Ease up.
First one's on me ;)
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That's true to a certain extent, but it is usually precipitated by a supposed "shopper" quoting the company/dealer sales pitches as fact (see the original post here), which brings out quick rebuttals. The usual pattern is for the original "just looking for info" poster to defend their product, which seems unusual if they were truly looking for help. Unfortunately, the antics of these "pot-stirrers" makes it hard for you happy owners to look forward to reading a thread with your brand in the title. If you read this board regularly, I think you'd have to agree the folks that you just branded "name callin children" actually put in quite a bit of time providing help and information, while the "attacked posters" seldom contribute beyond their own threads. Whose motives should be questioned?
FYI, I have no skin in this game. I'm a consumer that owns a brand not often discussed on this forum. I just appreciate the efforts of MOST of the industry people on this forum.
While I will agree with most of what you said. It was sort of a half hearted joking responce ....... notice the smiley face. I understand and appreciate the Pros for their time and effort on the board.......enough......... it was tounge in cheek I am sorry if it offended you or any of the other kids ;) ;D<<<<<<<<< insert smile/ wink here<<<<
Gary
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I've got to weigh in here even though I'm reluctant to do so. These threads have become tiresome and repetitive. I am quite confident that I represent the only Arctic owner who has consistently frequented this site over the past year.
It's kinda like the sasquatch and the smart blonde girl syndrome - you hear alot about both of them but you never, ever see one. Well, I'm not the smart blonde, but this sasquatch has owned his tub for over a year and it has been wonderful. Our electrical bills are relatively unnoticed, the water is hot when I get in and stays hot when I'm not, the dealer is a phone-call away should I need any advice or service. I've had a few small things go awray ( hi-limit sensor was bad) but nothing that wasn't fixed quickly and professionally.
The inside of the cabinent is nice and warm regardless of 20 above or 20 below. It also looks terrific (especially with a new coat of stain). I don't expect the cover to last forever, and I anticipate a leak at some point. If and when that happens, I also anticipate that it should be relatively painless to deal with, but time will tell.
I give you my honest opinion as I having nothing to gain or lose by it. If you are shopping for a tub, I suggest you look at everything before you decide what's best for you. We have really enjoyed our experience so far.
Jc
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I've got to weigh in here even though I'm reluctant to do so. These threads have become tiresome and repetitive. I am quite confident that I represent the only Arctic owner who has consistently frequented this site over the past year.
It's kinda like the sasquatch and the smart blonde girl syndrome - you hear alot about both of them but you never, ever see one. Well, I'm not the smart blonde, but this sasquatch has owned his tub for over a year and it has been wonderful. Our electrical bills are relatively unnoticed, the water is hot when I get in and stays hot when I'm not, the dealer is a phone-call away should I need any advice or service. I've had a few small things go awray ( hi-limit sensor was bad) but nothing that wasn't fixed quickly and professionally.
The inside of the cabinent is nice and warm regardless of 20 above or 20 below. It also looks terrific (especially with a new coat of stain). I don't expect the cover to last forever, and I anticipate a leak at some point. If and when that happens, I also anticipate that it should be relatively painless to deal with, but time will tell.
I give you my honest opinion as I having nothing to gain or lose by it. If you are shopping for a tub, I suggest you look at everything before you decide what's best for you. We have really enjoyed our experience so far.
Jc
Ditto! I've said it many times...You'll be hard pressed to find an unhappy AS owner. Most people that criticize AS wouldn't know one if they fell in it. With the exception of Steve. Arctic Spa is a pretty big competitor with Hydropool in my neck of the woods...so in keeping with the industry, I kind of expect it from a Hydropool guy.
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Thanks fletch. I do pride myself on staying in tune with alternate methods of how companies promote themselves as sales, business strategies and marketing is my niche.
I do agree that Hydropool people know their stuff. ;)
Steve
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well steve i would argue that Budz in my area does not fit that mold you are talking about.
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well steve i would argue that Budz in my area does not fit that mold you are talking about.
Budz has been around a long time. Spas are not their priority. Pools, servicing their thousands of customers and chemistry for their pool and spa customers are their priorty. They know the product is solid as they have sold it for years. I bet they could care less if you bought a spa from them.
Your Arctic dealer is not as mature a business and would likely fight for the sale and service you better than Bud would have.
I have not been a customer of Bud, I am just going by what I have heard through industry contacts and customers of theirs I met while working in Burlington.
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I'm not the smart blonde, but this sasquatch has owned his tub for over a year and it has been wonderful. Our electrical bills are relatively unnoticed, the water is hot when I get in and stays hot when I'm not, the dealer is a phone-call away should I need any advice or service. I've had a few small things go awray ( hi-limit sensor was bad) but nothing that wasn't fixed quickly and professionally.
The inside of the cabinent is nice and warm regardless of 20 above or 20 below. It also looks terrific (especially with a new coat of stain). I don't expect the cover to last forever, and I anticipate a leak at some point. If and when that happens, I also anticipate that it should be relatively painless to deal with, but time will tell.
Jc
Sounds just like my tub and it's not an Arctic. Matter of fact it sounds like a whole lot of tubs that are not Arctic's. The reason I have so much trouble with them is most are convinced there are the end all tub when they are simple....like alot of tubs except more expensive and noisier.
No offense to anyone just my opinion.
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What would be nice is to be able to have a posting member with an 8 to 10 year old Arctic that still performs like yours JC! Unfortunately I don't think that is a possibility but would welcome it.
Having a 2 to 3 year reputation is easy...making it past that is where it gets a bit tough.
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I couldn't agree with you more Stuart. Let's see what happens.
Jc
Oh, and Bill - it's Arctic with a c. If people are going to challenge the brand it would be nice if they at least spelled it right! I've always found it interesting how so many people can know so much about a product yet don't know enough to spell it correctly.
;D
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Oh, and Bill - it's Arctic with a c.
The spa industry has a few terms that get butchered constantly such as the word Niagara. I was watching Celebrity Jeopardy earlier this year and the final answer was NIAGARA FALLS. All three got it right but only Al Franken spelled it correctly and jokingly asked why they got credit while misspelling it (the others of course had it "Niagra", missing the middle "a").
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Jc
Oh, and Bill - it's Arctic with a c. If people are going to bash the brand it would be nice if they at least spelled it right! I've always found it interesting how so many people can know so much about a product yet don't know enough to spell it correctly.
;D
Your not accusing me of bashing this or any brand are you?
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Of course not. The comment was meant for those who wish to take offense in the future. This would more than likely not include yourself.
Jc
This is where threads will be moved that turn in to the same old hashing of FF vs TP, Master's Spa Shows, Artic Martketing, etc, etc.
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Oh, and Bill - it's Arctic with a c. If people are going to bash the brand it would be nice if they at least spelled it right! I've always found it interesting how so many people can know so much about a product yet don't know enough to spell it correctly. ;D
I'm not sure were the brand bashing is going on? I don't see much brand bashing, just putting the brand back in perspective, and sales pitch bashing.
My neighbor has an Arctic it's a fine tub, I have soaked in it many many times and got very very drunk in it also. Meaning it works good. Just not any better than mine as I stated. The only real differencses I can see between the 2 are mine is older, quieter, and a heck of alot cheaper when purchased. I do however like the cedar on his cabinet better than mine. But if mine gets to ugly I can build a better cabinet in a couple days.
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Of course not. The comment was meant for those who wish to take offense in the future. This would more than likely not include yourself.
Jc
Oh, ok, forgot about that. I've had so much on my plate this last two weeks I've lost track of it all. Turned in my two week notice effective Monday 8/1 so I can spend more time monitoring this board and playing 9 holes at lunch time until the new job starts.
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I've been doing midnights myself so my clock/timing is a little off - sorry for the confusion.
Jc
I modified my original post to those who are following this thread.
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I have just that tub you asked for... I have one of the original Arctic designs for almost eleven years now, still running great, had pump seal once and upgraded to the new cover, thats all. When I do decide to get another when this one quits, no doubt it will be Arctic and nothing else. Just my opinion and to me it's the only one that counts.
Good Day All!
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Good Day
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Here's one question that you can try and get answered as I have never been able to.
They rely so heavily on the pumps keeping this empty space within the spa heated in the brutal cold of Northern Ontario.
That being said, when, in your mind, do the pumps generate a great deal of heat? I'll give you this one...when they are running on high speed. So, assuming you are using your spa and hour a day, everyday (which is VERY high usage), then what is keeping that empty cabinet warm for the other 23 hours per day at -30 C when those pumps are not running at all or on a low, circulation speed?
We know these spas are not 100% thermally sealed and any reputable Arctic salesperson will agree. They need to cool the pumps as well as inject air into that cabinet for air injection into the jets.
Ask that one question to your salesman and I'd love to hear the response if you get it. I've never had an Arctic salesperson that could clearly explain this to me in all the years. Thanks.
Steve
Steve, this question you raise about the pumps is not that hard of a question, it is like every other conversation with you about Arctic, you try make your points by blurring the facts and wording things in your favor. You are always critical about Arctic's marketing of their product, Yet I see that HydroPool markets things like putting a piece of plastic over the piping before they foam over it as a selling point, self cleaning not really any different than tubs with bottom suction, except for the marketing of it.
The problem with your question, and why you do not get it answered is that you don't agree with or understand how the insulation design works. (That is fine).
The pumps do not keep the air space warm- the water does! Whatever heat (even if it is just small amounts through out the day during the filtering cycles) Is used not wasted to help retain air space and water temp. Unlike a HydroPool the heat from the pumps is not blocked from the water by insulation nor is the heat from the water blocked from heating the air space. The pump heat is just a bonus!!
To that point, you answer how equal or less insulation around a shell retains heat better than equal insulation around the cabinet.
As for the question about a sealed cabinet, it is not air tight, (If you want I would be more than happy to cram you in a cabinet and see if you sufficate.) The doors are not sealed with gaskets, there is a metal screened drain hole in the floor. But it is not vented, is a car more thermally sealed with the windows cracked or closed? A Building retains heat better with the windows and doors shut.
Steve, there is a point we are going to both have to agree on if we want to get your question answered. I will ask you a question so we can see if we agree .
1) Do you believe a hydroPool retains heat better then an Arctic. (While the pumps are off) I believe they would be very similar.
Steve, think about how a TP is built, Heavy insulation around the shell to keep the water warm, a little insulation around the cabinet perimeter. (Steve why is there insulation around the perimeter of the cabinets on your tubs) The heat from the water is retained by the insulation on the shell, most of the heat from the water will be lost through the cover. Most covers are not as good of insulation as what is around the shell, heat rises, path of least resistance, you know stuff like that!!!! So why put insulation on the cabinet, and shell? If the insulation on the shell is sufficient in retaining the heat in the water, where is the heat coming from that needs to be retained by the cabinet insulation on one of your tubs. The only source or heat in the airspace on a HydroPool is from the pumps! Steve, Where does the heat come from under one of your cabinets that protects the equipment from freezing between filter cycles. In these -30 temps you speak of. With all that insulation around the shell, it isn't from the water. What protects the equipment from freezing up between filter cycles. Steve do you think it is from your pump motors?
How do you keep the airspace above freezing in -30 degrees with a cabinet that has less insulation than an Arctic Cabinet and little or no heat from the water, where does the heat come from the other 23 hours a day no one is using your tub??? During the one hour of use, your pumps make enough heat to keep a poorly insulated cabinet above freezing temps. It doesn't make sense to me Steve, I think you use the heat from your pumps too.
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Stabone;
I must applaud you for a couple of things.
Your messages are much more logical and literate than when you first appeared on the board.
You are the first Arctic sales representative that I have encountered that admits that the cabinet is not sealed.
Bravo
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As for the question about a sealed cabinet, it is not air tight, (If you want I would be more than happy to cram you in a cabinet and see if you sufficate.)
In the interest of science, I think we should proceed with this experiement.
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Hey Stabone I would like to ask you something. If you have 3-4 inches of insulation on the cabinet walls only of whatever tub you own and 2-3 inches on the cabinet and 3-4 on the shell of another brand which will hold heat better during run times and non run times.
I could state that in my opinion the tub with the most insulation would hold heat better, but it seems facts get scewed to make the lesser insulation better or equal somehow.
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Steve, this question you raise about the pumps is not that hard of a question, it is like every other conversation with you about Arctic, you try make your points by blurring the facts and wording things in your favor.
Sorry if that upsets you Stabby but I'm just using the Arctic phrasing. From what I've seen and heard...it upsets more than you! :o
You are always critical about Arctic's marketing of their product, Yet I see that HydroPool markets things like putting a piece of plastic over the piping before they foam over it as a selling point,
My suggestion to you would be to have a full and complete understanding of something prior to attempting to discredit it. Kinda makes ya sound foolish otherwise. Creating a design that prevents the plumbing from moving is something I don't expect you to fully understand nor believe in.
self cleaning not really any different than tubs with bottom suction, except for the marketing of it.
See above comment regarding the ability to gain a level of understanding. If you are relating a bottom suction to Hydropool's self cleaning, you really need to do your homework! I'd love to set up a Hydropool dealer next door to you if that's how you would sell against it!! ;)
The problem with your question, and why you do not get it answered is that you don't agree with or understand how the insulation design works. (That is fine).
Hence the reason I ask the question.
The pumps do not keep the air space warm- the water does!
So if I understand this correctly, you are relying on heat induction from the body of water to keep that cabinet warm. Hmmm, so we heat the body of water and then allow this heat to be transferred away only to have to heat it again? When heat is transferred, heat is lost. The energy efficiency aspect of a spa is determined by how well we can effectively trap that heat and prevent the body of water from decreasing in temperature. This method lacks sense in the way you describe it? ???
Whatever heat (even if it is just small amounts through out the day during the filtering cycles) Is used not wasted to help retain air space and water temp. Unlike a HydroPool the heat from the pumps is not blocked from the water by insulation nor is the heat from the water blocked from heating the air space. The pump heat is just a bonus!!
You might want to check your Arctic sales brochure.
The difference of your design is that it is a single thermal lock whereas Hydropool's is a double thermal lock. We also allow heat induction from the body of water into our first small area where the plumbing is. The vast difference is that your design releases into the entire cabinet which is not thermal loc in any way. We use heat energy from the pumps in the perimeter of the cabinet only forming 1 thermal barrier. The insulation used is to prevent temp creep and trap in that heat induction from the body of water. This is where IMO, Arctic design is terribly flawed. You are heating one area to transfer it to another only to reheat that first area again? All the marketing in the world can't prevent the obvious to people that know better.
Steve, there is a point we are going to both have to agree on if we want to get your question answered. I will ask you a question so we can see if we agree .
1) Do you believe a hydroPool retains heat better then an Arctic. (While the pumps are off) I believe they would be very similar.
I believe a Hydropool and most other spas do a better job truth be known...
Steve, think about how a TP is built.....blah, blah, blah
In reading this paragraph a few times, I can only surmise that you are 100% brainwashed by the Arctic method and that you really need to have a clear understanding of how tubs are insulated and why. It's very clear that the blinders are fully secured on you and that it impedes your ability to gain full understanding on this issue. I can relate because I was somewhat like that with Beachcomber. It wasn't until I opened up and deprogrammed that other insulation methods made sense. You won't be at Arctic forever and I just hope you're still around these forums when that happens. A big, bright light will turn on and you'll realize the marketing got YOU TOO!
The rest is just asking me to train you on heat transfer and alternate designs and that’s not my job. My suggestion to you would be to come back with a basic level of understanding on insulation methods of the various companies you would like to compare to yours and discuss them then.
Steve
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Nice reply Steve ;D
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In the interest of science, I think we should proceed with this experiement.
And don't think for a second that I've forgot about YOU mister! >:(
Actually, that was hillarious! Not funny mind you... >:(
Steve
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Nice reply Steve ;D
Yes it was....You must be back on your medication...That was pretty calm;) ;) ;D ;D 8) 8)
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Yes it was....You must be back on your medication...That was pretty calm;) ;) ;D ;D 8) 8)
I have reached a calming level of meds and it gives me a sense of satisfaction knowing that my peers recognize my new state of bliss and balance in my life.
I love you all.... lalalala lalalala ;D
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Yes it was....You must be back on your medication...That was pretty calm;) ;) ;D ;D 8) 8)
Serenity now. Serenity now.
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Serenity now. Serenity now.
More like; Serenity now...Hydropool later! ;)
Inside joke... ;)
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More like; Serenity now...Hydropool later! ;)
Inside joke... ;)
From what I've heard..Hydropool's floor sucks ;)
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I know a guy in Colorado who buys generic boxes of Mac & Cheese and relabels them as Heavenly CheezyMac and tries to convince everyone it is the Food of the Gods. He only sells about 4 cases a month, mostly to people who camp outside Roswell waiting for the spaceship to come take them away.
thats funny ;D
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OK,
I am looking to buy a small 3-4 person spa and have read through most of the posts on here about Arctic spas (one of the brands I am considering in the Fox model) and I think I have distilled the sentiment down to the following:
Are Arctic Spas the BEST on the market? Probably not.
Are they a very good spa? Probably yes.
Are they the most efficient on the market? Probably not
Will they cost alot more to own (elec. bills)? Probably not
Do they offer good service? depends on dealer but usually yes.
Are they the BEST value on the market? Probably not
Are they a good value? Yes
If the tub is comfortable will you be disappointed? Probably not
Will you make a $6,000 to $10,000 mistake? Probably not
Will you make a $500 to $1000 mistake? Maybe but the same could be said for all brands.
Are the salespeople a bit over the top? Yes
Are other spa salespeople a bit over the top? Yes
So when it comes down to it, if you like the tub, it fits you and your lifestyle and you can afford it....buy it with relatively few regrets.
Let me know if I got this right.
Aaron
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For your first post Aaron, you seem to have a keen understanding on us crazies! ;) You were 100% bang on until you got to your last question/answer... ;)
Welcome.
Steve