Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: freddortort on August 25, 2005, 10:42:39 pm
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WELL. . . . . .
Today the family wet tested the Optima. We had already tested the Cameo. What a HUGE difference for us! In the same seats the Optima blew us out of the seat. Although the two seats that replace the lounge are ECTREMELY comfortable, the footjets do not feel nearly as good as in the Cameo.
Every salesperson we have talked to has told us that less than 10% of the people wet test. How will the buyer know if one has the "IT" factor over the other. THIS is a prime example for wet testing.
We will go back and test the Tiger Caspian and the Cameo another time.
One last question: Is the stereo worth the price in the Cameo? Or do people bring a boombox if they want "The Eagles Greatest Hits" or any Steely Dan CD?
Thanks
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On Sunday morning, before the store opens to the public, we're going to do wet-tests in the Sundance Maxxus and a few others . The saleslady says that the seats and jets in the Maxxus are identical to what are in the Optima and the Cameo. Has anyone tried the Maxxus AND the others who could give me their impression? We're also going to test the Tiger River Caspian, the Hot Springs Vanguard and the Hot Springs Envoy. I sat in the (dry) Cameo, and that lounge was really comfortable, as was one of the corner seats.
We're just now beginning the actual testing. We've been reading online about the tubs and I've been checking folks' impressions here. It's been really helpful. We're gonna check out a Dimension 1 Californian tomorrow, and a Caldera Tahitian, which the salesman told my hubby was very similar in feel to the Geneva, which he has, but not filled with water.
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On Sunday morning, before the store opens to the public, we're going to do wet-tests in the Sundance Maxxus and a few others . The saleslady says that the seats and jets in the Maxxus are identical to what are in the Optima and the Cameo. Has anyone tried the Maxxus AND the others who could give me their impression? We're also going to test the Tiger River Caspian, the Hot Springs Vanguard and the Hot Springs Envoy. I sat in the (dry) Cameo, and that lounge was really comfortable, as was one of the corner seats.
We're just now beginning the actual testing. We've been reading online about the tubs and I've been checking folks' impressions here. It's been really helpful. We're gonna check out a Dimension 1 Californian tomorrow, and a Caldera Tahitian, which the salesman told my hubby was very similar in feel to the Geneva, which he has, but not filled with water.
We test the Optima tomorrow. Tested the Maxxus last week. Beautiful tub, but not for us. We both struggled with the lounge and she floater out of accusage seat. If you are under 5'10" you may struggle with the lounge and under 5'5", you may struggle with the deeper seats. Because the tub is big, the center foot jet island is not easily reached to get leverage. That's why we're testing the Optima because that island provides leverage to combat float. We also soaked the Bahia, but didn't care for it. It' just not as much tub as the 800 series tubs. Californian lounge is definitely for a taller person, but if you fit, it's a nice tub. Caldera lounge foot jets are very nice. Have fun testing.
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Sounds like the Cameo is for you so far! :-) I PERSONALLY do not think the radio is worth the extra $900 we charge for it...that being said we sell alot of them! :-) Remember to try to Envoy or Grandee before buying. The more you wet test the more secure you will feel about your purchase! Good luck!
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Keep wet testing until you find YOUR spa! I just bring out my boombox...but I have had my spa since before stereos were an option.
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Scott
Wet Tested the Vista. On the second go-around we liked it better than the Tiger Springs Caspian. The ones you suggested do not have water in them. We like the Vista this time.
Tomorrow back to the Sundance Cameo as the Optima is NOT for us. What we discovered is that the totally open seating is not for us. Now we need to find the molded seats that fit our necks, backs, and have GREAT jets.
More tomorrow. . . . . .
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Wet testing is a pehenomena created by HotSprig. They have their dealers waste an inordinant ammount of show room square footage to a "mood room" effectivly reducing the ammount of product they can display and increasing the cost of show room operations. Just one in the many factors that make HS spas WAY over priced. Less than 5% of my customers ever wet test, and I'd bet money it's more like 1.5% that do, even though I make the offer, and it hasn't adversly affected my sales, nor has ANY customer EVER come back and said they were sorry they didn't wet test, cuz this spa just sucks. Wet testing IMHO is just a way for customers to get a free soak before buying. If you are a floater, you are going to float in any lounge seat in any spa. And you'll float in the other seats too. Unless it's Caldera, that is, and there is a reason for that. Yeah, yeah, I know, I sell Caldera, but you have to admit, the 2 ir three tired foot ridges in the lounges is a good idea and the foot ridges in the bottoms of the spas too. No matter where you sit, there's a place to anchor yourself into the seat. This isn't so much an unabased plug for Caldera, as it is a comentary about wet testing. Also, I've had a couple of Jack and Diet Cokes, tonight, but go ahead, bring on the flames!
Every salesperson we have talked to has told us that less than 10% of the people wet test. How will the buyer know if one has the "IT" factor over the other. THIS is a prime example for wet testing.
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I've got a Sundance Cameo with the stereo. The stereo wasn't really something that I was interested in but my boyfriend wanted it and said if I bought the spa, he would pay for the stereo.
I've actually been surprised how much we do use it. It sounds great. We also purchased the remote that will control the stereo and the jets and we really enjoy that.
Good luck in your search!
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I must disagree. The only real way to test is to wet test. You simply can't compare spa seating and jets without getting wet. For those that buy without doing that, it probably still feels OK and they're happy. Warm bubbly water pretty much feels good no matter who is making the tub. But they didn't necessarily get what feels or works best for them, especially if they truly want to test how effective the jets really are. I know, I've witnessed it first hand in my recent search for a spa. Buying dry usually means you bought a sales pitch.
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As a consumer and not a dealer, wet testing helped me pick my spa. I had it narrowed down to a Hot Springs Vanguard, Coleman 471 and a Beachcomber 750. After wet testing the Hot Spring, my family of 5 did not like all the jets not being on. The Coleman 471 was not deep enough for me. The Beachcomber 750 lounger seat was uncomfortable when sitting in it regular. In the end we purchased a Beachcomber 580. All the spas we had it narrowed down to are great products, but we would not have found the one for us unless we wet tested.
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Wisoki, maybe I tend to over shop and research, but being a school teacher my $$ is hard to come by. That being said, I would never buy a car before a test drive to be sure that it handled the way I expected, so why in the world would I spend $8000 + on anything without trying it out first?? I guess there are people out there with money trees!! Must be nice!! ;)
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It is nice, I just lie back in my hammock tied between my two money trees, and each time the wind blows I have to gut up and rake up all those bills that come gently wafting down to the ground. It's good that I thought to plant the Benjamin and Grant trees, the Washington and Lincolns were much cheaper, but... ;)
Wisoki, maybe I tend to over shop and research, but being a school teacher my $$ is hard to come by. That being said, I would never buy a car before a test drive to be sure that it handled the way I expected, so why in the world would I spend $8000 + on anything without trying it out first?? I guess there are people out there with money trees!! Must be nice!! ;)
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Wet testing is a pehenomena created by HotSprig. They have their dealers waste an inordinant ammount of show room square footage to a "mood room" effectivly reducing the ammount of product they can display and increasing the cost of show room operations.
Man, if it were up to me, the whole store would be one giant mood room! I'd have every model wet and every model dry, but that would not be feasible, so we try to get a good mix.
The purpose of the mood room is to help the customer visualize what the spa would look like at night in their own backyard. It offers the double advantage of providing the shopper with the opportunity to actually try the spa and judge it for themselves.
I could act like a used car salesman and fast talk them into thinking that this Model X is the perfect spa for them, or I can let them decide that for themselves. I choose to let them decide.
Any spa dealership that doesn't offer the customer this wonderful opportunity and experience is cheating the customer, to a great extent.
Terminator
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Very interesting Wisoki,
I guess as a dealer it would be much easier to make a sale without the wet test process. Pehaps most of us on this site tend to go over board with our research compared to the average buyer.
Any other dealers believe that wet testing is over rated?
Wet testing is a pehenomena created by HotSprig. They have their dealers waste an inordinant ammount of show room square footage to a "mood room" effectivly reducing the ammount of product they can display and increasing the cost of show room operations. Just one in the many factors that make HS spas WAY over priced. Less than 5% of my customers ever wet test, and I'd bet money it's more like 1.5% that do, even though I make the offer, and it hasn't adversly affected my sales, nor has ANY customer EVER come back and said they were sorry they didn't wet test, cuz this spa just sucks. Wet testing IMHO is just a way for customers to get a free soak before buying. If you are a floater, you are going to float in any lounge seat in any spa. And you'll float in the other seats too. Unless it's Caldera, that is, and there is a reason for that. Yeah, yeah, I know, I sell Caldera, but you have to admit, the 2 ir three tired foot ridges in the lounges is a good idea and the foot ridges in the bottoms of the spas too. No matter where you sit, there's a place to anchor yourself into the seat. This isn't so much an unabased plug for Caldera, as it is a comentary about wet testing. Also, I've had a couple of Jack and Diet Cokes, tonight, but go ahead, bring on the flames! Â
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I ask each and every customer to sit in the spa both wet and dry. I love it when a customers wet test a spa!
Michael
www.HeavenlyTimes.com
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I ask each and every customer to sit in the spa both wet and dry. I love it when a customers wet test a spa!
Michael
www.HeavenlyTimes.com
Amen! If they do get in the spa, they are 99% of the way to buying, at least in our store. I've never lost a wet test yet (of course, no one else in my neck of the woods has a mood room). ;D
Terminator
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Just my experience, I wet tested a Jacuzzi (J-360) and floated out of the lounge like a cork!
I wet tested the HotSpring Sovereign and Sundance Altamar and did not float out of either lounge. I think it has to do with the lounge design!
Oh yeah, wet tested the LA Spa HEET model and floated out of the lounge there too, but not as bad as the Jacuzzi!
Wet testing helped me decide. That is why I am such a big proponent of it!
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. Also, I've had a couple of Jack and Diet Cokes, tonight, but go ahead, bring on the flames!
Wow... am I glade you said that! You saved me a whole bunch of typing. ;)
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And every dealer eech customer asks this question to will have the exact same response. Nope, not me, we've NEVER lost a wet test. This statement should ALWAYS be followed up by "that we know of."
I've never lost a wet test yet (of course, no one else in my neck of the woods has a mood room). ;D
Terminator
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WOW
I didn't realize I would start such a great interchange/
We went back to Sundance today to wet test the Cameo again.
Now we are TOTALLY confused and torn between the HS Vista and the Sundance Cameo.
I realized today why we floated out of the Optima. . . . . our legs didn't fit the foot dome. In the Cameo our feet fit perfectly.
Is it INSANE to go back a third time? East TX - - - do you sell many Vistas compared to your other models?
Thanks for ALL the feed back we are getting closer.
Wisoki have another Jack . . . . with a cigar this time
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It's a big purchase. Go back a third time!
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Well, we didn't even bother with the Dimension 1. I just didn't like the looks of it. We went in the Sundance Maxxus; ye gods what a monster! That thing was HUGE! I didn't care for it at all, though hubby liked it some. We went in the Tiger River Caspian, but it felt teeny tiny after the Maxxus, and there wasn't any foot room for the big feet in our family.
We tried the Hot Springs Vanguard and hubby fell in love with the Moto Massage jets. We didn't feel like we were being blown out of the seats like we had with the Maxxus, and he liked the continual movement of the water; felt like a therapeautic massage. But we felt like the Vanguard was too small, so we climbed into the Vista. It was dry, but we got an idea of the size of it compared to the Vanguard. Hubby liked the larger foot area. Silly us, forgot to wet-test the Hot Springs Envoy. That would have given us some idea of how the lounge feels in the Hot Springs spas. We're gonna go back later this week to test it, unless we can find another HS dealer in the area that has a Vista available.
After we left the HS place, we tested the Caldera Tahitian. We didn't like it at all. The seats just didn't feel right to us. I kept fighting to stay in the lounge seat, and I thought it was just me, but hubby had trouble with it too. He felt like the jets were stinging him, too, and didn't like that.
It's looking like the HS Vista right now, but we haven't even talked $$ with the saleslady. Guess we do that when we go back to test the Envoy.
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Is it INSANE to go back a third time? East TX - - - do you sell many Vistas compared to your other models?
Thanks for the opportunity to answer your question. :)
By all means, go back as many times as you need to make sure you're getting the spa that's right for you and your family. It seems that some dealers feel like test soakers are a burden to them (that will tell you all you need to know about them right there). I would say that any dealer that won't accomodate you while you're shopping will probably not accomodate you when you have a problem.
I do sell a few Vistas. The customers that buy them are usually the high rollers in town, doctors, bankers, business owners. They want the biggest and the best spa available, so they usually get a Vista with the SpAudio and the Navigator remote. I sold one Saturday to a couple that rents Stardust house boats up on Lake Hamilton in Arkansas. They were originally going to buy an Envoy, but loved the sheer size of the Vista, so that's what they got.
I actually sell more Envoys than anything else. It is just a smaller version of the Vista and is more affordable to some people. You won't find a nicer spa than those two.
If you do decide to go with a HotSpring, get the one you want because you'll never have to buy another one! ;D
Terminator
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And every dealer eech customer asks this question to will have the exact same response. Nope, not me, we've NEVER lost a wet test. This statement should ALWAYS be followed up by "that we know of."
No one else in town offers test soaks or has spas available for it. I'm sure they feel the customer is just trying to get a "free soak." I stand by my statement. ;D
Terminator
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I just had a couple in my store who wet tested three differnt spas. I had to transfer the water and move the electical each time. They decieded on an Frontier Signature from Arctic Spas!
Michael
www.HeavenlyTimes.com
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East TX- - - - -
SO the Envoy would be the equivalent tub to the Sundance Cameo YES? Does the double Moto "feel" a lot better than the single?
The dealer does not have the Envoy filled. Does it have a similar feel to the Vista? (Just trying to cover all the bases before plunking down a few sheckels)
Thanks again for all the GREAT advice
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Looking at the Sundance website (the picture was kind of small), they look to be about equivalent in size.
As far as the MotoMassage, it was not my favorite jet. However, I LOVE the DX MotoMassage, it goes up and down both sides of my back and really works the muscles. I think it's a heckuva jet!
As I stated in an earlier post, I sell more Envoys than Vistas, probably 3 to 1. I prefer the Envoy, and this is why:
The captain's chair in the Vista is at an angle. When you put your feet on the large JetStream foot jet, it will tend to push you sideways. I weigh 250 lbs, and I still have to fight to stay straight.
The captain's chair in the Envoy faces directly at the foot jet. You can relax in this seat without being pushed sideways, the jet is facing you head (or foot) on. The Bella Fontana is is also not positioned behind a seat in the Envoy. I love to sit in the Envoy with the fountain in front of me, watching the lights change colors. It is very soothing. 8)
The Vista is $1,000 more than the Envoy. For the $1,000, you get a little bigger spa, 1 more seat, and 2" of depth. It is not worth the price difference. Go with the Envoy and save yourself some money. It is my favorite. :)
Terminator
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WOW
Now we are TOTALLY confused and torn between the HS Vista and the Sundance Cameo.
Is it INSANE to go back a third time?
Let that confusion work for you not against you. Make a couple more trips to each location if feasible and don't be shy about mentioning that you have your choices narrowed down to two. You might see which dealer will go the extra mile to get your business, and you can probably rest assured you made the right decision which ever way you go.
Actually, it might be interesting to see your particular dealers react. Do they chose to tell you
A. Why my tub is better
B, Why their tub is the wrong one.
or
C, Here is what I can do for you.
My dealer (now being investigated for fraud :'( ) chose C, and it worked out for me.
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Amen! If they do get in the spa, they are 99% of the way to buying, at least in our store. I've never lost a wet test yet (of course, no one else in my neck of the woods has a mood room). ;D
Terminator
Is anyone going to comment on how I got the icons to show up in the posts? Maybe that wasn't good, I see terminator believes in the "Buy from me and I won't riddle your body with lead" approach
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I think you've done a great job on this whole forum. It really is top-notch!
Terminator
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You are ALL wonderful. . . . . . . .
Michael. . . . no one has even offered to do what you did
you'd be on the TOP of my list
Termy. . . . . . I just made an appointment with another dealer that has the ENVOY filled! ! ! ! ! ! ! (in a private room but alas wife still will not attend) Thanks for your great advice
Mr McCall I have done just that Told them that I have it down to two brands
QUESTION for ALL as far as filtration motors reliability diverter valves etc
Are Sundance and Hot Springs a dead-heat? ? ? ? ?
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In my humble and SOBER (no jack today) opinion, no. HotSpring requires too much filter maintinence. Although the idea of all the water going through the filters before returning to the jets sounds great, how much time will you need to spend cleaning the 3, 4, or 5 filters that are in your spa. At least with the Sundance you maximum filter maintinence is once a month, and depending upon which filter you get, could be as little as once a year. Again, IMHsoberO, I'd go with the Sundance.
You are ALL wonderful. . . . . . . .
Michael. . . . no one has even offered to do what you did
you'd be on the TOP of my list
Termy. . . . . . I just made an appointment with another dealer that has the ENVOY filled! ! ! ! ! ! ! (in a private room but alas wife still will not attend) Thanks for your great advice
Mr McCall I have done just that Told them that I have it down to two brands
QUESTION for ALL as far as filtration motors reliability diverter valves etc
Are Sundance and Hot Springs a dead-heat? ? ? ? ?
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freddortort,
Don't let rogue dealers try to scare you about filter maintenance on a HotSpring (or any other brand of spa). The Tri-X filters that come standard on the Vista and Envoy are dishwasher safe or you can rinse them off with a hose, takes about 5 minutes. Oh, you won't have to buy any more filters for about 10 years. The filters will actually last longer than some generic spas. ;D
Terminator
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freddortort,
Don't let rogue dealers try to scare you about filter maintenance on a HotSpring (or any other brand of spa). The Tri-X filters that come standard on the Vista and Envoy are dishwasher safe or you can rinse them off with a hose, takes about 5 minutes. Oh, you won't have to buy any more filters for about 10 years. The filters will actually last longer than some generic spas. ;D
Terminator
I agree. I recently switched to the Tri-X in my Landmark. If you are not willing to take a few minutes every other week for spa maitenance maybe you shouldnt get a spa. As Term said it takes no more than 5 minutes to rinse out the filters. I havent tried the dishawasher thing because I really dont see the need. In the summer I just rinse them with my outdoor hose and in the winter, I flip the filter compartment lid upside down and carry them in 2 at a time to my tub sink in the laundry room. Sacrificing a few minutes of my time to maitain crystal clear water is well worth it for me.
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As a happy consumer who looked at tubs for years at home shows and dealers - the mood room really puts you in the mood to buy! Love my HS !!
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The Tri-X filters are great!! Don't let non owners of this filter tell you they are not. I have a Envoy and wash them out every 3-4 weeks and put them right back in. It takes about 5-10 minutes. I put them in the dishwasher at water changes and do nothing else with them. No need for 100 dollar replacement filters or filter cleaner
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freddortort,
Don't let rogue dealers try to scare you about filter maintenance on a HotSpring (or any other brand of spa). The Tri-X filters that come standard on the Vista and Envoy are dishwasher safe or you can rinse them off with a hose, takes about 5 minutes. Oh, you won't have to buy any more filters for about 10 years. The filters will actually last longer than some generic spas. ;D
Terminator
Wisoki you're such a rogue. lol
You really are playing devils avocate aren't you? lol ;)
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Sombody has to, otherwise this HotSpring heave board would run roughshod over every one else. ;) I bring disenting poinst of view to almost every thread I post in, and catch hell for it, but so what. If my posts make someone think twice and buy once, then my advocacy works. Hmmm, new tag line...Think twice, buy once!
Wisoki you're such a rogue. lol
You really are playing devils avocate aren't you? lol ;)
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Love what you have done, wmcall!
You are the best moderator (at least on this site) ever!!!
September 10 is coming!
;)Thought I was going to dodge it, didn't you!?!!!