Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Wolf_Racer on August 21, 2005, 12:57:44 am
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This is a great site, and glad I found it. Lots of great info. I have started my spa search. I have visited most of the spa dealers in my area and wet tested, Caldera, Hotsprings, Marquis, Sundance and Artesian. Looked at Wind River and CalSpa but not wet tested.
I have narrowed it down to either the Marquis Epic or the Caldera Geneva. Artesian seems like a step below all others I have listed above.
I agree with a lot on this review for both of these models (and other models I have tried):
http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=wtb-hottub;action=display;num=1124071622
A few things to add:
Marquis:
- Tri-zone might be better the way they do it as you can focus on certain areas better. I can see that you cannot have all the jets on in one section. Was a little hard to understand at first but after about 10 minutes I understood and can see advantages
- Better for small kids due to the variety and higher seats
- Like the deep seats and their variety for others
- Agree the jets are not as nice as other brands. More durable probably. Can buy fancier jets
- Quality appears to be good
- Wonder how main pump will last since no smaller 24 hour pump. Salesman says it will last and is low energy
Caldera:
- Very powerful jets. Too powerful on highest settings really, but that can be adjusted
- Wife loves the foot hold to keep her from floating away. I liked that too. That is almost the deciding factor for her, Funny
- Jets variety better
- Like the lounge and the foot holds in it
- Seat with neck cusion that goes around your neck was very comfortable and reduced spray when jets were on.
So I could go with either. If you have any opinions or have compared these two models, please post your thoughts.
I am getting quoted $8536 (for cash) plus tax on the Marquis that includes everything (lift, cover, initial chems, delivery, step, setup).
I am getting quoted $9120 (cash price) + tax on the Caldera Geneva. This includes all in the Marquis plus a sub panel 230v (they have a little different wiring on the caldera with two breakers) so would save some $$ on the electrician.
I am located in the Denver, Colorado area.
Do these prices seem reasonable? I am thinking the Marquis price a little high based on other posts on these foums. Not sure why someone in Pittsburg could get this spa at $7900 but Denver (closer to Oregon, where they are built) is $600 more. I have tried to negotiate with Marquis, but they seem firm.
Thoughts on any of this, especially pricing. Do spa dealers negotiate? They all tell me now is the best time to buy the spa as this is the lower prices of the season. Not sure I buy that.
Thanks!
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I live in Vancouver, WA (which is about 2 hours from where the Marquis Spas are built) and I got a great deal on the Epic at $8,500, with the same package you listed. The price you were quoted sounds very good. The Caldera seems a little high as you could get the HS version for that price. Both are great tubs, but the Epic will soon be selling in the $9,000-$10,000 range in the next year.
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Both are good spas and carried by good dealers there….
The price for the Epic is about $800 less than the rest of the dealers in your region with the options you’re getting!
I have worked with both dealers there in Denver and can say with all honesty that both are above average....The Marquis dealer has a better service record but neither is bad. The Marquis Dealer has also sold one brand more consistent than any other dealership in the state.
Agree the jets are not as nice as other brands. More durable probably. Can buy fancier jets
I find this a strange statement? Is this an observation of aesthetics or actual function? I think if you had those jets side by side with any other jet in the industry you would find them in the upper end...?
Wonder how main pump will last since no smaller 24 hour pump. Salesman says it will last and is low energy
The 24 Hr Circ pumps have a greater fail rate than the 2 speed system per capita...A 24 hour circ pump draws .98 amps and runs 24 hours moving every drop of water in the spa through the filter around 20 times per day. The pump system that Marquis now has draws 1.2 amps on the filter setting and moves every drop of water through the filter over 60 times a day.
Marquis was a huge proponent of 24 hour circ pumps many years ago and found that it made more sense to them that you could accomplish more filtration with the same or less power cost and eliminate an entire addition pump and system to fail!
I believe you will also get a more inclusive owners protection plan or warranty with the Marquis...More components covered, less exclusions and transferable if you sell the spa. Marquis gives you 2 years longer on the cabinet warranty, 2 years longer on the plumbing warranty and does not exclude things like fuses (remember you are in one of the higher lightning activity areas in the nation and power surges are an issue) in addition to giving you a warranty on the ozone system that Caldera specifically excludes.
The Epic should give you better maintenance reminders.
The Caldera is single filter vs the Marquis dual filters.
The Marquis will give you more of the desired “corner seating” with the filters out of the corner.
The DuraBase on the Marquis has a much greater protection capability than the pressure treated wood base covered just on the bottom with plastic that the Caldera uses. In addition the DuraBase is backed with a Galvanized steel support system and a longer warranty (I don’t believe Caldera has a warranty on their base…?).
Hope this helps…I do think you would be happy overall with either.
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Stuart,
You sound just like the Marquis dealer I met with! Are you sure you are not him?? ;D
Seriously, thanks for the info. I agree both dealers seem to be pretty good.
What I meant about the jets is the Marquis do not have as many adjustments or features as the caldera or most other spas I have looked at. They look stronger and I think will last longer however.
You have a few other very good points.
Any other folks have opinions about pricing? Anyone is Colorado get better pricing than what I have been quoted?
What is annoying a little is the Marquis deal said this price was only good Saturday and Sunday, which is a red flag to me. I am pretty sure they will honor is this next week as well.
Thanks!
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Both are very good choices. Assuming both dealers seem like they'll service you well, I'd wet test both and go with whichever fits/feels best.
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I am getting quoted $9120 (cash price) + tax on the Caldera Geneva. This includes all in the Marquis plus a sub panel 230v (they have a little different wiring on the caldera with two breakers) so would save some $$ on the electrician.
Your quote on the Marquis Epic was $50 less than the deal I was offered so it sounds good. As for the Caldera, the Niagara is one of the front runners on my list. I made it clear that I was evaluating a number of spas and wanted his best offer; no haggling really. He came back with $8900 for the typical spa pacage including steps, cover lifter, GFCI panel, chem pack, delivery, setup package. The quote you received seems a little high
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Do spa dealers negotiate? They all tell me now is the best time to buy the spa as this is the lower prices of the season. Not sure I buy that.
After going through this process before and witnessing it many times I can assure you that your dealer is just doing his/her job as a salesperson by giving you every reason to put a deposit down sooner than later. However, you can certainly negotiate within reason. Dealer's are not going to sell without making a profit but they do have significant room for maneuver.
it is my understanding from talking to a couple dealers on this subject that the spas cost them the same amount for a given year no matter what month it is. However, If you are time pressured where you have to take one of the spas in stock at the store, your barganing position will be diminished and you may not get as good of a deal.
If you are clear that you have done your research, are definitely going to buy, but are willing to wait for the right price, most dealers I have talked with go into their office and will give you their "best offer". They know you have a couple other spa brands in mind and don't want you walking out of the store. At that point you should really know your facts before trying to haggle further on the spa. Another option is to negotiate for free or discounted accessories you will need (e.g., extra filters, cover lifter, GCFI panel, etc.) if the deal is still not to your liking.
Best of luck with your negotiations.
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it is my understanding from talking to a couple dealers on this subject that the spas cost them the same amount for a given year no matter what month it is. However, If you are time pressured where you have to take one of the spas in stock at the store, your barganing position will be diminished and you may not get as good of a deal.
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Simply incorrect all spas have many petroleum by products in them and as the cost of oil continues to rise spa prices have gone up along with the shipping costs.
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Well I have to tell you that you and I see these two spas almost exactly alike. I went with the Caldera Geneva Utopia and the tie breaker was the little bump on the floor. I still miss my Caldera. For those who think the HS is better I've got news for you - it ain't. But like you, I could have been happy with the Marquis too. Truth to tell, though, that Caldera still sings to me. I really miss it.
Regards,
Bill
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Well I have to tell you that you and I see these two spas almost exactly alike. I went with the Caldera Geneva Utopia and the tie breaker was the little bump on the floor. I still miss my Caldera. For those who think the HS is better I've got news for you - it ain't. But like you, I could have been happy with the Marquis too. Truth to tell, though, that Caldera still sings to me. I really miss it.
Regards,
Bill
It is really interesting how 2 people can feel about a spa so differently ....neither is right or wrong, but unlike Bill .....After placing a deposit on the same Caldera...I wet tested it and knew it was not for me....and because of this and my continued shopping....I wound up becoming a Marquis dealer .....so as you can see wet test when ever possible ....both are nice .....but the Caldera would not work for me but might for you.... :D .....
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I own the Caldera Niagara. The foot bump is key to my enjoyment of my tub. I learned this by wet testing & by the comments on this board.
I agree selection is a very personal thing.
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i like the outside lights on the caldera spas..they are a nice feature. I am considering a caldera tahitian utopia- sundance altaman/cameo or ultima- artesian dove or marquis....so many choices..i have yet to get out of a tub and say wow..thats it..
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i like the outside lights on the caldera spas..they are a nice feature. I am considering a caldera tahitian utopia- sundance altaman/cameo or ultima- artesian dove or marquis....so many choices..i have yet to get out of a tub and say wow..thats it..
I TOO AM IN DENVER..AND THE COMPETITION IS FIERCE,,,I AM LOOKING FOR A 12 MONTH NO INTREST /NO PAYMENT OPTION AS WELL..
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I love this forum, I am so greatful that I have learned so much from all of you. My wife and I have just ordered a 2005 Marquis Epic w/out stereo from one and only dealer in San Diego,CA for $7900.00 (the price includes tax of 7.75%, delivery, lift, cover, step, start up chem and crane service). I understand that price varies from city to city but I still hope my info helps. Good luck.
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Wow, $7900 sounds like a great deal. I read on the forum somewhere else that someone in Pittsburg got around $7900 too. Not sure why Denver is that much higher.
poopsy: Caldera and Hotsprings (IHT) and Marquis both have 12 month no interest now. If you pay cash IHT will give you 5% off and Marquis something like 3% off. I personally did not like the dealer for Artesian at Park Meadows. Did not seem like they knew their stuff and only have been the Artesian dealer for 1 year. IMO the Artesian is lower quality hot tub than Caldera and Marquis. But, my Neighbor has had a artesian for 3 years and had zero problems with it. It is outside uncovered too.
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Wow, $7900 sounds like a great deal. I read on the forum somewhere else that someone in Pittsburg got around $7900 too. Not sure why Denver is that much higher.
poopsy: Caldera and Hotsprings (IHT) and Marquis both have 12 month no interest now. If you pay cash IHT will give you 5% off and Marquis something like 3% off. I personally did not like the dealer for Artesian at Park Meadows. Did not seem like they knew their stuff and only have been the Artesian dealer for 1 year. IMO the Artesian is lower quality hot tub than Caldera and Marquis. But, my Neighbor has had a artesian for 3 years and had zero problems with it. It is outside uncovered too.
Most of the better known manufactures are pretty good at building a spa that will hold up fair throughout the first 5 years (they don't want to pay warranty either)....The trick is to have them still be as problem free as possible from years 5 through 10. ;)
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By the way you can run all of the jets in all seat in the Epic...if you wish.
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$7,900 is amazing price for Epic. Way too low. Someone is giving it away. Good deal for you.
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By the way you can run all of the jets in all seat in the Epic...if you wish.
Really. I wet tested the Epic and could not figure out how to do that. Like sitting the lounge (they call it something else) could not get all jets going at the same time. Had to use the tri-zone settings to move from one zone to another. (you sound like a Marquis dealer!?)
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Epic should sell for $9,495. No high prices listed on this board. Being poorly sold or represented if sold for less than $8,500.
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Really. I wet tested the Epic and could not figure out how to do that. Like sitting the lounge (they call it something else) could not get all jets going at the same time. Had to use the tri-zone settings to move from one zone to another. (you sound like a Marquis dealer!?)
I believe I read where you can put the setting inbetween zones and get two of the three but not all three at once. I am repeating what I read here or other forums.
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I believe I read where you can put the setting inbetween zones and get two of the three but not all three at once. I am repeating what I read here or other forums.
That would be me that made the above statement. While wet testing the Epic, I asked the salesman about being able to run the jets together. He responded by telling me to move the Tri-Zone handle inbetween the numbers. It's possible to get a combination of jets this way.
drprwnap
8)
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Epic should sell for $9,495. No high prices listed on this board. Being poorly sold or represented if sold for less than $8,500.
I agree that $8500 and below is not very realistic. I do know from my discussions with a Marquis dealer that an Epic can definitely be purchased for $8600-$8700 with a standard package (basic steps, cover, cover lifter, chemical starter pack. delivery, and setup)
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While wet testing the Epic, I asked the salesman about being able to run the jets together. He responded by telling me to move the Tri-Zone handle inbetween the numbers. It's possible to get a combination of jets this way.
Technically you are correct, but I think it is important to note that the Epic feels as though there is very little water flow coming out of the jets when adjusting the Tri-zone lever between settings. I certainly acknowledge that when the Tri-Zone valve is fully moved to one of the "therapy" settings there is very good pressure to the active jets.
In no way am I saying the Epic is a bad spa; Quality-wise I had no negative impressions. It's just that the Tri-Zone system offers a different experience that some may love and some may find very limiting. Because of this, I think it is absolutely essential to wet test this spa before considering a purchase; more so than any other spa I have seen on the market.
If you really like the dedicated therapy settings offered by the Tri-Zone diverter valves, than you will likely have no regrets. Just make sure to try other spas in the $8-9k range as well. You may be very surprised at how different the experience is between an Epic and most other Spas. Which style you prefer is up to you.
Good luck
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Kyle said
Epic should sell for $9,495. No high prices listed on this board. Being poorly sold or represented if sold for less than $8,500.
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We bought the Epic for $7900 w/stereo. Kyle said I'm sure glad our dealer is poorly selling and representing the Marquis brand because according to Kyle we should have paid $9,495!!
Well, I decided on the Marquis Epic. It came down to the D1 Californian and Caldera Geneva and the Epic
I am glad too my dealer is poorly representing them too! (which I do not believe they are BTW). I paid $8300 for the Epic (all else included) with no stereo with a little bargaining. Your $7900 with stereo sounds like a very great deal. I was told the Stereo is about $700 itself (which I did not need).
What part of the country are you in copykat?
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wow...great deal...since you were a fanatic on testing and high standards let me know a) where you got the great deal..as i will go there as well... and b) why you choose epic? i have wetested many last year and only didnt like coleman and jacuzzi...i liked caldera - lighting and tub feel...and i liked sd altamar the cameo and the optima...but when i wet tested the marquis i felt that too many seats were too shallow..i am only 5 fooot 11 and the wife is a tiny 5 foor 1 asian gal...so for her it was ok....i was impressed with construction and durability....hm....
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My wet tests showed the Epic was pretty deep in a lot of the seats, similar to HS and Caldera. D1 Californian was very shallow. I just liked the Epic layout. I think the Epic is new this year. The 05 Reward has a very deep (too deep for me) lounger. I am about your size and my wife is 5'6". We both liked the Epic lounger.
Wet test is the best way to decide. Sundance (agree dealer in Denver is not good), Marquis, D!, HS and Caldera are all good SPA's IMO. Price and fit were key for me on all of these.
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I'm in Orlando, Fl and yes, I think we got a great deal. I believe we were told the same price on the stereo.
We had narrowed our choices to the Epic and the Jacuzzi 385. We looked and wet tested HotSprings, D1, LeisureBay, and Sundance. My husband didn't want to wet test any of them. He said whatever worked for me would be ok. I finally persuaded him to wet test and it's a good thing he did because the J385 didn't work for him. He didn't fit in the lounger and just didn't think the J385 was for him. We both felt the Epic had better therapy in all the tubs we tested.
We wet tested the Epic together and every seat worked for both of us. It's deep enough that you don't float out and the aidirondack seat was great.
Our tub is on order and we won't have it for probably 2 months. We are just in the process of adding a screened porch. I'm so glad I found this forum because we were ready to plunk down $8500 on a LeisureBay and I decided I need to do some research. We would have been disappointed as I think the LeisureBay is overpriced and not a top brand. I owe that to this forum!!
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Oh...I will say I liked the SD Cameo a LOT!! I can't remember the exact quote but it was over $10K. I like the Epic as well or better and the price was right!