Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: wmccall on July 27, 2005, 05:19:34 pm
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This came as a huge suprise for me
http://www.thehottubstore.net/
This is my dealer. I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of the rest of the dealers. Most of you know I have thought well of this dealer.
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That has got to bite sorry to hear about that. :(
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Wow. That sounds legit but I'd still like to hear Dynasty's side to this.
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Being in business for 9 years,and in good standing. Somethings amiss with Dynasty,my opinion.
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I seems odd that a established dealer who was doing business with Dynasty, had orders going to them and had deposits would run into problems with them. It would make sense that as orders were filled payments would be made to Dynasty.
I would think that the financial responsibility would be shared - total payment isn't made to the manufacturer until manufacturer delivers!
I don't know how dealers do that end of the business but it would seem to me that Dynasty dropped the ball. Do you dealers actually have to pay for the tubs on order up front?
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I don't know what to think. It makes you wonder if maybe they weren't paying thier bills with Dynasty on time. At the same time I saw one of the new advantage line from Dynasty at thier store and it was more than 6 months before Dynasty updated their website.
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I don't know what to think. It makes you wonder if maybe they weren't paying thier bills with Dynasty on time. At the same time I saw one of the new advantage line from Dynasty at thier store and it was more than 6 months before Dynasty updated their website.
I don't think Artesian updates their site too often. Some of the info is outdated as they've made minor changes to their 2005 line up.
Bill, is there another Dynasty dealer around just in case you need warranty service? When I purchased my Artesian, that was in back of my mind but since 2005 it seems that there are more dealers selling them here in NJ.
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Do you dealers actually have to pay for the tubs on order up front?
All manufacturers I'm familiar with require payment in full before order goes into production.
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So did the local dealer go out of business, or did Dynasty go out of business?
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So did the local dealer go out of business, or did Dynasty go out of business?
At this point, I don't know. I was going to stop in for a new filter soon. We have one other Dynasty dealer on this forum, I am hoping to hear from him. Maybe I should modify the subject.
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Ugh That really is hard on a small Biz. I have to believe that there is something missing ??? in the story.
Gary
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As Dynasty dealers, we are also baffled by this letter. I have written a letter to the company and invited them to share a response on this forum so we can hear their side of the story.
Maybe...unless they can't for legal reason...
Bretta
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Another advantage of buying a floor model :)
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Wow!
:P I don't know what to say! :P
Sorry wmcall! That is too bad!
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Unfortunately, this is a HARD lesson to learn:
IF YOU PAID BY CREDIT OR DEBIT CARD: Please contact your issuing bank to apply for what is known as a "chargeback". (That is unless you still want to get your spa)
IF YOU PAID BY CHECK OR OTHER MEANS: Please be patient. We are still working very hard for you, and will do everything we can to make sure your order is fulfilled.
Newbies considering a spa: ALWAYS use a credit card unless you are willing to take a risk...
Drewski
:-/
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I'm guessing there's a little more to it. Manufacturers don't pull the plug on a viable dealer that pays his account or is trying to.
Regardless, it's tough to read a story like that... :-/
Steve
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I'm guessing there's a little more to it. Manufacturers don't pull the plug on a viable dealer that pays his account or is trying to.
Regardless, it's tough to read a story like that... :-/
Steve
Yes they do, It happened in Chicago Metro area when a major manufacturer terminated several "mom and pop" dealerships to sell to a larger chain of stores, and again in Ohio.
This industry is not about people, it's about numbers. ;)
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Unfortunately, this is a HARD lesson to learn:
IF YOU PAID BY CREDIT OR DEBIT CARD: Please contact your issuing bank to apply for what is known as a "chargeback". (That is unless you still want to get your spa)
IF YOU PAID BY CHECK OR OTHER MEANS: Please be patient. We are still working very hard for you, and will do everything we can to make sure your order is fulfilled.
Newbies considering a spa: ALWAYS use a credit card unless you are willing to take a risk...
Drewski
:-/
When I bought my tub in '03, they only asked for 10% deposit and the rest due upon delivery.
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When I bought my tub in '03, they only asked for 10% deposit and the rest due upon delivery.
Not to create fear in the minds of all of our lurking shoppers, but it does no good to use a credit card and expect to request a "chargeback" if there is no money in the account.
It would be suggested that you apply a minimum deposit with the balance due upon delivery. Life is full of risk and change. It is virtually impossible to anticipate the future.
It appears that anyone wanting to get into Hot Water should go shopping ready to make a decision, buy a floor model, pick it up or have it delivered right away, and sit back in your bubbling tub and count the stars every night rather than worry about the anticipation of risk. ;D
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??? That's really unfortunate for a lot of people. Sad story...
I couldn't fathom waiting 4 months for a spa. In cases where the customer just isn't ready for delivery, I understand.
If things go smooth, it's normally 2months and the spa is deliverred, hooked up, running, and customer is indo'd.
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Yes they do, It happened in Chicago Metro area when a major manufacturer terminated several "mom and pop" dealerships to sell to a larger chain of stores, and again in Ohio.
This industry is not about people, it's about numbers. ;)
Let me try again... ::)
I'm guessing there's a little more to it. Reputable Manufacturers don't pull the plug on a viable dealer that pays his account or is trying to 99.9% of the time. ::)
Regardless, it's tough to read a story like that...
Steve
Better? ???
P.S. That's one dark and gloomy outlook you have there McD. :-/
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Not to create fear in the minds of all of our lurking shoppers, but it does no good to use a credit card and expect to request a "chargeback" if there is no money in the account.
It would be suggested that you apply a minimum deposit with the balance due upon delivery. Life is full of risk and change. It is virtually impossible to anticipate the future.
It appears that anyone wanting to get into Hot Water should go shopping ready to make a decision, buy a floor model, pick it up or have it delivered right away, and sit back in your bubbling tub and count the stars every night rather than worry about the anticipation of risk. ;D
J_McD,
If I put the spa on my credit card, and the spa is not delliverd, I am under the impression that I will be remimbursed for the charge through the Credit Card company. (who will then try to get the $$) from the dealer.
No? Doens't it work like fraud protection?
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Yes they do, It happened in Chicago Metro area when a major manufacturer terminated several "mom and pop" dealerships to sell to a larger chain of stores, and again in Ohio.
This industry is not about people, it's about numbers. ;)
It's not just the Spa industry it's ALL about #'s. The manufacturers care about nothing more than the numbers. period! Home Depot, WalMart, etc they are all the same CRUSH THE COMPETITION. It happens and will continue to happen across the country.
There is more to the story, we will wait for more info.
Gary
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My dealer uses a reputable finance company (Wells Fargo) to arrange financing for its customers. They handled the whole thing. I assume the finance company would not transfer the funds to the dealer unless they were reasonably sure of their financial stability. Is that a bad assumption?
Also, would the finance compay come after the customer or the dealer if the tub never got delievered?
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Home Depot, WalMart, etc they are all the same CRUSH THE COMPETITION. It happens and will continue to happen across the country.
Gary
Add Lowes to that list, I just put my 2 weeks notice in at the company I work for that is a Lowe's supplier. Lowe's cost us 75 jobs this year to increase thier profits while keeping the consumer cost the same.
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My dealer uses a reputable finance company (Wells Fargo) to arrange financing for its customers.
I will accept your experience and word that Well's fargo is a reputable company, but they are on my do not use list. A while ago I tried a new cell phone carrier with their 2 week "no risk trial" After deciding I wasn't going to keep the phone, I started filling out forms at those websites that sent me spam saying I was preapproved for $300k at 3%. I used the cell phone number for that trial phone and I started getting all these calls from Wells Fargo. So I know who spammers sell thier leads to.
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Most dealers, unless they are amazingly liquid, use a floor plan company. Usualy Textron or Transamerica. The dealer places the order for the spas with the MFG. The MFG. verifies available credit with the financial co. and gets an authorization no. The MFG goes into production based on that authorization. the tubs come out of production and get shipped to the retailer. Once invoiced by the MFG, the financial co. THEN gives the payment to the MFG. As the dealership sells their spas they pay the financial co. for them, either when sold or upon floor check.
The thing I see is if this dealer were in their transitional phase of closing one floor plan account in favor of a better interest rate and terms, but neglected to tell the MFG and submitted an order, the only thing the MFG is going to see is the inability to get the tubs financed. My guess is lack of comunication on both sides.
Side note, in this months Pool and Spa News, Dynasty took out a full page add stating that "due to their unprecidented growth this year, they are not accepting any new dealer applications so they can focus on product r&d." To me...this sounds a little fishy.
All manufacturers I'm familiar with require payment in full before order goes into production.
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My dealer uses a reputable finance company (Wells Fargo) to arrange financing for its customers. They handled the whole thing. I assume the finance company would not transfer the funds to the dealer unless they were reasonably sure of their financial stability. Is that a bad assumption?
Also, would the finance compay come after the customer or the dealer if the tub never got delievered?
The dealer does not get funds deposited to his account from the finance company until the purchaser signs a delivery acceptance form approving delivery of the goods thus, completing the transaction.
J_McD,
If I put the spa on my credit card, and the spa is not delliverd, I am under the impression that I will be remimbursed for the charge through the Credit Card company. (who will then try to get the $$) from the dealer.
No? Doens't it work like fraud protection?
Drew, you could be right, my first thought was charging back to a closed account, thus no funds. I believe the credit card company would pursue it as a fraudulent transaction.
Let me try again... ::)
I'm guessing there's a little more to it. Reputable Manufacturers don't pull the plug on a viable dealer that pays his account or is trying to 99.9% of the time. ::)
Regardless, it's tough to read a story like that...
Steve
Better? ???
P.S. That's one dark and gloomy outlook you have there McD. :-/
Not to repeat myself, but it was a very large “reputable” manufacturer known to be in the top of our industry that did exactly what I said. And they were “viable” dealers that paid their bills. They just did not renew their annually renewable selling agreement and replaced them with a new account with a large chain of stores resulting in more units sold. Yes, it would be a dark and gloomy outlook to have that happen.
The details of the Dynasty dealer situation are not known to us here as of yet and there are always two sides to every story, and I would imagine everyone has considered a myriad of different scenarios. But, to read what is posted is a devastating thing to any dealer. I would be very interested to know along with all of you what brought this situation about.
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Sorry to hear about your problem. When I bought my HS Vanguard the dealer didn't even ask me for a deposit. We paid in full when it was delivered and set up. I live in Jacksonville, FL and the HS dealer has been here a long time and has a great reputation. Hope all works out
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Side note, in this months Pool and Spa News, Dynasty took out a full page add stating that "due to their unprecidented growth this year, they are not accepting any new dealer applications so they can focus on product r&d." To me...this sounds a little fishy.
Dynasty was named by Lucite International as the Fastest Growing Spa Manufacturer in 2005 (based on market research studies conducted by Lucite).
We received a letter from Dynasty recently detailing the changes they are making to handle this growth. They did mention taking out the ad in Pool & Spa News...the decision to not allow new dealers this year is based on the ability to meet the needs of existing dealers (who made the growth and expansion possible). They have made major investments in people, processes and structures as well as considerable monetary investment.
Hope that takes away some of the fish smell... :)
Bretta
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I suppose having SCP as one of your dealers helps alot too.
Here in Ontario SCP is one of a handful of wholesalers for Hayward, Pentair, Sta-Rite etc
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Sorry to hear about your problem. When I bought my HS Vanguard the dealer didn't even ask me for a deposit. We paid in full when it was delivered and set up. I live in Jacksonville, FL and the HS dealer has been here a long time and has a great reputation. Hope all works out
Likewise. We put 10% down...which was a little over 700 bucks.......and when our tub was delivered to Sarasota FL,we paid the remaining balance. Our tub came from Brandon FL,bout 45 minutes away.
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Well, so far an email to Dynasty has gone unanswered. On another forum (thanks Spatech) I found a woman who paid $5000 for her tub and is in limbo. She said calls to Dynasty are going unanswered. Maybe I'll try that and see what they say about my warranty.
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With the help of one of our Dynasty dealers in this forum. (All of your dealers are great) I received the Dynasty Toll free Customer care Center. The number is 1-866 361-3699. I got a directory recording when I called and picked the extension for Warranty Info. The lady who answered right away told me that my serial number and installation date was recorded and verified that as well as my address and said the warranty is in place until 3/23/2008. I didn't press the issue any further, but if I had to guess, I could contract another servive company and Dynasty would supply the parts. Under the circumstances this might be the best I can expect. I should be fine with that unless I have a problem in the winter with a problem that affects my tubs ability to heat. At least I'm not totally out of luck and I do have a tub. I'm still hopefull for the dealer.
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Drove by my dealer today, just to see if there is any info. There is still some stuff inside, but it looks like it is being emptied out. (stuff blocking the windows to keep the curious from peaking in) There was the name notice that is on their website. But new was a sign that said LEASING INFO and a phone number. I gotta assume they aren't coming back.
I also noticed that Dynasty, who seems to be pretty slow updating their website, has removed them from their dealer locater. My next closest dealer is 71 miles away.
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When I bought my tub in '03, they only asked for 10% deposit and the rest due upon delivery.
9i believe it works the same way as car dealers. the spa dealer mentioned "verifying his new credit line". YOU,(the buyer) only put 10% down, but the dealer pays for the whole spa up front. if the average spa sale is about 8K, and the buyer puts down 10%($800), then the dealer "pays" the rest (for the sake of argument say the cost is $6600--20% mark up to make the math easy. i dont know what the real costs are--) and in 2-3 months you get your spa, and pay the dealer the remaining $7200 you owe him(or her).
assuming the dealer sells 10 per month, minimum, he has to pay out $66,000 to the manufacturer, while only collecting $8k from the down payments. 20 spa /month? hes out $132,000 while taking in $16k, you get the picture???
i dont know about the rest of you out there, but i dont have $100,000+ lying around.
the line of credit lets him pay for the merchandise just like a car lot does.
oddly enough, any dealer should be very motivated to get your spa to you as fast as possible, in order to get his money back....
i know this is overly simplified, but there may be a different side to the story from dynasty. but it does sound like an odd story from any angle................
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Well, I don't think Dynasty is coming to the boards to respond so....
My husband spoke with Dynasty about this issue and the best way to put it is that there are two sides to every story and these two sides are VERY different. Don't think I should expound on the matter any more except to say that Dynasty Spas isn't "going under" and they're still doing a great job as our supplier.
Bretta
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I was watching our local news tonight and up pops our dealer. Nothing really new, they showed the store, they said dozens of customers are out thousands of dollars and the company is claiming supplier problems but has gone out of business. I'll see if their website has anything.
PS - As mentioned my dealer only asked for 10% down when I bought, I wonder when they changed that is people are out $$5000?
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More info http://www.nbc4i.com/news/4847475/detail.html
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The local newspaper, the Columbus Dispatch, had a report today on The Hottub Store. The only thing new was a quote from Dynasty. On the Hottub stores website they said their lawyer was working with Dynasty to get the remaining hot tubs delivered. Dynasty's response was that they have had no contact with the store and have removed them as a dealer, which I confirmed on the web. The article also said calls to the owner have gone unanswered. I can confirm that and that all email addresses, including personal ones of the owner Michael Gentry, have been discontinued. It really looks like fraud now.
The letter states that the Hot Tub Store is working with Dynasty, through its attorney, "to attempt to fulfill every single customer order."
That’s not true, said Kimberley Harris, executive director of Tennessee-based Dynasty Spas.
I'm not sure if others can read this link.
http://www.dispatch.com/business-story.php?story=dispatch/2005/08/27/20050827-D1-03.html
Let me know.
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I'm not sure if others can read this link.
http://www.dispatch.com/business-story.php?story=dispatch/2005/08/27/20050827-D1-03.html
Let me know.
I checked the link but this is the message I get:
The page you've selected is available only to registered members.
Phil
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I checked the link but this is the message I get:
The page you've selected is available only to registered members.
Phil
Thanks Phil, I'll ask for permission to post the entire article here.
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This seems like it's turned into a big ol' mess. I really hope the people who put money down get taken care of. That has to be an awful feeling.
Terminator
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This seems like it's turned into a big ol' mess. I really hope the people who put money down get taken care of. That has to be an awful feeling.
Terminator
The article states Dynasty offered to sell the people out money, a tub at reduced prices. I don't know if you can expect more than that, but if a person had a contract and put 10% down, I suppose it would be a good offer if Dynasty offered to sell the tub, delivered, at the remaining price the customer paid, but I know a lot of these people put 50-100% down, so that wouldn't be practical.
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The article states Dynasty offered to sell the people out money, a tub at reduced prices. I don't know if you can expect more than that, but if a person had a contract and put 10% down, I suppose it would be a good offer if Dynasty offered to sell the tub, delivered, at the remaining price the customer paid, but I know a lot of these people put 50-100% down, so that wouldn't be practical.
Most of you are aware of my "get it in writing" mentality.
Along with that I have made it a practice to never give more of a deposit than necessary.
I have never been burned but think it is a good practice.
For example, last winter I bought a new snowmobile trailer. The dealer only required a 10% deposit but I was going to write them a check for half the amount. That way I knew it would be less of a hit when it came in and I would not have the money in my account to dip into.
Well, I only gave them the 10% figuring it would be silly to be more vested than I needed to be in case something happened.
Why would people put 50% down? Same reasoning I had (less to come up with at the delivery)? They were offered a better deal with more down (why this would be I don’t know)?
Going forward, I know I will give as little of a deposit as necessary.
I hope it works out for all involved and Dynasty is doing a nice thing by trying to accommodate those customers.