Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: frankeyboy on August 01, 2005, 08:09:26 am
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I own a 2005 Sundance Majesta. I have had it about a month and a half. Recently the plastic brackets that attach the shocks to the metal framing of the cover lifter cracked and fell apart. The lifter still works, but it takes a lot more effort to lift it. I called my dealer to have it fixed and they want to charge me a $45 "truck fee" in order to send someone out to fix the cover lifter. I don't think I should have to pay to have something fixed that is covered by the manufacturers warranty. Is this type of fee normal or am I getting the shaft?
Frankeyboy
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Read your warranty. In affect it says that there will be no charge for parts and labor but you may be charged by the dealer for a trip charge.
Not all dealers charge this fee, and it isn't unique to Sundance.
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My Marquis dealer just started adding a "service charge" to a warrenty call. He says that Marquis has been after him for a while to do this and with the higher cost of gas decided to enact one.
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The cover lifter has its own warranty which usually does not include any labor.
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I agree the fees are, imho a rip off. It is my understanding that just about all dealers have some type of fee, anywhere from $25 to $75.
My dealer told me it was to help offset the cost of gas. I live 15 miles away. ::)
Here's $5 for the gas. keep the change. :P
How a dealer can charge you $45 for a broken part they installed 1.5 months ago is beyond me. In this circumstance, it seems unethical.
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I agree the fees are, imho a rip off. It is my understanding that just about all dealers have some type of fee, anywhere from $25 to $75.
My dealer told me it was to help offset the cost of gas. I live 15 miles away. ::)
Here's $5 for the gas. keep the change. :P
How a dealer can charge you $45 for a broken part they installed 1.5 months ago is beyond me. In this circumstance, it seems unethical.
I think the price of gas is a rip off, but I still have to buy it to get to your house and I still have to pay the driver/technician his time and insurance expenses which I am sure you think I should "eat" because you "bought" the spa from me at your negotiated, discounted price.
Frankeyboy, You are expecting the cover lifter to be considered under the spa warranty, it is not covered. That is not part of the spa has it's own warranty.
What prevents you from taking the broken part off and taking it into the dealer. I am sure he will be glad to get it replaced regardless of how it broke, but gee, 6 weeks and it broke, it is either a POS or it could actually have been broken and not a warranty defect in material or workmansip. Any chance of posting a pic? ???
If it was broken by force or improper use, I would think that to be unethical, but still I have replace a great many customer mistakes in the interest of "Customer Service". ;D
I think the charge is a disappointment to you, but there is nothing "unethical" about it, remember this is a business.
And besides, he will have to take time off of his yacht to come do the repair eh! How insulting. ;D
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So Frankie, you should use your gas to drive to the dealer, and spend your time replacing the defective part. Because, after all, you're just the customer who bought it. Why should the dealer have to incur any costs or time to replace the POS he sold you?
In one breath, dealers here are chanting "go with a dealer who will service you after the sale" And "yea, you'll pay a few extra bucks up front, but it's worth it"
but 6 weeks later the dealers crying about how expsensive it is to have support customers.
Makes me wonder about statments like "Sure, buy your hot tub from Home Depot or Costco, but what happens when it breaks?"
Apparently the same thing if you buy it from a local dealer.
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This is somewhat routine, and can vary conserably from dealer to dealer depending on circumstances. In my case My Dynasty dealer covers a huge part of the state, but I'm just accross town. If I have a legitimate problem they never charge me that fee, but it is in the warranty. They have sold tubs to people who live 60 miles away that it takes 90 minutes to get there, those people are charged the trip charge and the dealer has always been up front about that.
Oh, my dealer also reserves the right to charge that fee. If my tub isn't heating and my filters are clogged, he probably even then wouldn't charge, but if I called twice for the same problem, I bet he might. On a big ticket item where the end user doesn't have to understand the device being used you almost have to have that option to make people think twice about calling. I do in-home computer service and I work on a lot of older systems. If I repair an internet connection and then the user calls me and tells me they can no longer print, I'll go back and see if its something I did, but if its unrelated, I reserve the right to charge for the trip. It makes people think before they call.
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Do you have a copy of the warranty on the cover lifter or know exactly what the name of it is?
Just so you know, the dealer will not get ANY labor credit from Sundance or the manufacturer of the cover lifter.
From the Sundance Warranty:
"This Limited Warranty does not provide coverage for the insulating cover, any item attached to, or installed on, the spa after the date of manufacture, or for gaining access to any component for repair or replacement."
also
"...although you may be assessed reasonable repairman travel mileage charges."
$45 is a reasonable amount. How much do they normally get for a service call?
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Frankeyboy, You are expecting the cover lifter to be considered under the spa warranty, it is not covered. That is not part of the spa has it's own warranty.
;D
The cover lifter has its own warranty. Its 90 days on finish, and one year on everything else. I actually just got off the phone with the sundance dealer and they said that within the first 90 days I don't need to pay the truck fee, but after that all warranty service calls are $45. This makes me fee a little better, but it would have been nice if these fees were explained to me before we bought it. And yes, I did ask about the warranty procedures, and somehow the salesman "forgot" to mention that truck fee. Anyway, the person I spoke to on the phone yesterday mistakenly wanted me to pay the fee. They will be here this afternoon to fix the shocks, and hopefully adjust the tension on them so they dont break again. Below is a pic of the broken shock
(http://frankeyboy.zoto.com/img/45/6a3ec4cf2893ba91bdecfd8f0ece9ee3-.jpg)
Frankeyboy
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Makes me wonder about statments like "Sure, buy your hot tub from Home Depot or Costco, but what happens when it breaks?"
8)
Or with a costco spa you would spend $30-$50 for the part, and then $60-$90 per hour to have someone fix it.
Agreed though, alot of people don't think of this price (and alot of dealers apparently don't include it). My dealer does charge something like $35 to come out and fix the tub, but it's a flat fee whether he is there 10 minutes or 3 hours.
It's a bit like insurance. I'm glad I have it, it saves me money, I paid alot to get it, but when there is an accident, I still need to pay that deductable.
-Ed
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I actually just got off the phone with the sundance dealer and they said that within the first 90 days I don't need to pay the truck fee, but after that all warranty service calls are $45. This makes me fee a little better, but it would have been nice if these fees were explained to me before we bought it.
Frankeyboy
While it would be nice to have had the charge mentioned by your dealer, as consumers I believe we have to be responsible for ourselves. Reading your warranty prior to or at the time of sale would have shown the possibility of a charge, which you then could have asked about.
Brewman
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One of my questions when I was shopping was if there was any fees associated with warranty work. I found that some dealers charged and some didn't. The ones that charged said it was to pay for their gas mostly and was a flat fee.
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Hmmm I was thinking of something... the mileage reimbursement right now is about .405 center per mile.
Dealers are generally spaced 50 miles apart, making the theoretical maximum round-trip 100 miles, or $40.50.
I wonder of mileage reimbursement comes into play for calculating these charges.
-Ed
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I called my dealer to have it fixed and they want to charge me a $45 "truck fee" in order to send someone out to fix the cover lifter.
Frankeyboy
If its not a big nuisance, you might offer to wait until they're in your area on another delivery/service call to save the them on travel cost in exchange for them waiving the trip charge.
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"Or with a costco spa you would spend $30-$50 for the part, and then $60-$90 per hour to have someone fix it. "
No, the part's under warrenty by the manufactuer, so no cost for the part.
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This is somewhat routine, and can vary conserably from dealer to dealer depending on circumstances. In my case My Dynasty dealer covers a huge part of the state, but I'm just accross town. If I have a legitimate problem they never charge me that fee, but it is in the warranty. They have sold tubs to people who live 60 miles away that it takes 90 minutes to get there, those people are charged the trip charge and the dealer has always been up front about that.
Oh, my dealer also reserves the right to charge that fee. If my tub isn't heating and my filters are clogged, he probably even then wouldn't charge, but if I called twice for the same problem, I bet he might. On a big ticket item where the end user doesn't have to understand the device being used you almost have to have that option to make people think twice about calling. I do in-home computer service and I work on a lot of older systems. If I repair an internet connection and then the user calls me and tells me they can no longer print, I'll go back and see if its something I did, but if its unrelated, I reserve the right to charge for the trip. It makes people think before they call.
Bill, you hit the nail on the head. It amounts to no more than "help me help you" before I come out. Amazingly, in the customers opinion, everything should be covered under warranty. I may be a bit cynical, but I would never charge a customer in the first 90 days. It is my responsibility to orient them correctly, give them adequate infromation NOT provided by the manufacturer. I can not begin to tell you how many times the dealer has to go out and "turn" the face of the jet because the jet doesn't work, or then there is the pump problem when it dosen't work and the tech takes a dirty filter out and walla, the pump works "just like before". We try to screen the need to travel first if it is correctible, but I would suppose we would need a crystal ball.::)
Drew, is a good armchair quarterback and should be running his own Hot Tub business while giving advice. Again, I can not begin to count the number of customers who have "teenagers" (they are different and all the rules change) that open the cover without unlocking the back straps. The resulting damage always remains a mystery and it must have been delivered that way. Then again, the "hydraulic" lifters have a locking device on them that keeps them from coming down on your head, when someone tries to "forceably" close it, guess what, the hydraulic lifters are devective be cause they have a 90° bend in them and won't work any longer. Still, they expect that would that be covered under warranty:-/
The actual problem that started this thread remains a mystery. But how can any of us make such assumptions. Customer service does come at a price, and it is usually borne by the dealer, but some things you gotta charge for.
Had a customer call last week, the symptom he reported "same thing as last time", any other help or details to identify, "just send someone out". The tech got out there 67 miles one way, turned the breaker off to reboot the spa and turned it back on, walla it's fixed and no problem found, no warranty reimbursement. The customer called to negotiate the house call charge.
Go figure, with customer comments or attitude indicated in this thread, when they squeeze all of the juice out of the lemon, I might as well give him the store keys, have him pay the bills, do the water test, deal with customers that expect everything to be free and lock up at night.
Thank God we have been blessed with more good customer than the alternate choice. Out of 300 new ones a years we are bound to get a few that you just want to fire. In 21 years we have gone back and repossed the spa with a chashiers check in hand for their purchase price from unbelievably demanding and condesending people that expect you to do everything for nothing when they treat you like the lowest life on this planet. Let them go to my competitor. ;D
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J_McD.
you see, I think this is part of our problem. I honestly think that you and I are saying the exact same thing, yet you tell me I'm am armchair quaterback, and other snide snippets.
Read my posts again. I said "in this circumstance". Which, we soon learned it is covered and will be repaired for free.
You also said you'd do the same thing that you'd fix it for free, given we are only 1.5 months into the new tub.
Huh. Maybe I should run my own spa business. ;D
You guys all take wednesdays off to play golf, right? -
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Walla? That's a town in Washinton state correct? Take a left at Daitsburg and drive for about 15-20 minutes and voila! You're in Walla Walla. ;)
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Huh. Maybe I should run my own spa business. ;D
You guys all take wednesdays off to play golf, right? -
Fishing on Tuesdays, Golf Wednesdays and Polo on Thrusdays.
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Had a customer call last week, the symptom he reported "same thing as last time", any other help or details to identify, "just send someone out". The tech got out there 67 miles one way, turned the breaker off to reboot the spa and turned it back on, walla it's fixed and no problem found, no warranty reimbursement. The customer called to negotiate the house call charge.
Go figure, with customer comments or attitude indicated in this thread, when they squeeze all of the juice out of the lemon, I might as well give him the store keys, have him pay the bills, do the water test, deal with customers that expect everything to be free and lock up at night.
Thank God we have been blessed with more good customer than the alternate choice. Out of 300 new ones a years we are bound to get a few that you just want to fire. In 21 years we have gone back and repossed the spa with a chashiers check in hand for their purchase price from unbelievably demanding and condesending people that expect you to do everything for nothing when they treat you like the lowest life on this planet. Let them go to my competitor. ;D
Ya know, J._McD, GOOD customer service is all about attitude and quite frankly, based on what you post here, if your store was near me I wouldn't buy from you.
Why? Because again and again there always seems to be an "edge” to numerous posts you have made to this forum. Politeness, apparently, is a concept that has escaped you – something that I find surprising given the business you’re in.
Now I sure you and your defenders will come back with some quippy remarks about how right you are etc., etc., etc., and that’s cool -- BUT, it still won't change my opinion or, undoubtedly, the opinions of others who probably think the same thing but just don't respond because they don’t think you’re worth the effort or time. Today, you caught me in the right mood.
Do yourself a favor and take a lesson from Chas, Stuart, Wetone and any other numbers of dealers who post here. Read HOW they talk. It might do you some good...
Drewski
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We service a very large territory (Most of NE Texas and NW Louisiana). As long as the spa is under warranty, there is NO CHARGE TO THE CUSTOMER, including gas money or whatnot. When the warranty expires, there is a $60/hour + parts charge, no matter where the customer is in our territory.
Now, granted, we have a fair amount of going out and flipping breakers and cleaning filters for folks. Every new customer gets a free one of these. After that, we have to charge them a service fee. For example:
A few days ago a customer called to say that his spa was broken. He told me it is set on 98* and his thermometer is reading 102*. His spa is sitting on his deck in the middle of a Texas summer sun. I told him it is just hot and gave him some suggestions on how to cool it off. No, he insisted the spa was broken. Our service manager called him and explained it to him. No, he insisted we come out and fix the spa immediately.
Service manager went out, did a diagnostic, found nothing wrong. We did not charge him as he is a new customer.
A week later he called to say his spa is set on 95* and it is actually 102*. We went over the whole scenario again and he insisted we come out and fix the spa. Again, nothing was wrong with it, but he was charged a service fee.
I believe we tried everything we could to save him some money. I can only assume he thought that we did not want to provide him service. Sometimes, it just goes like that, but only on rare occasions.
Terminator
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The actual problem that started this thread remains a mystery. But how can any of us make such assumptions. Customer service does come at a price, and it is usually borne by the dealer, but some things you gotta charge for.
The original problem was a pair of broken cover lifter shocks. They mount to the lifter frame via plastic connections. Both of them ended up breaking within about 30 days of installation. I don't know how they ended up breaking, I just noticed pieces laying next to the tub one morning. My dealer replaced them this afternoon and said that most likely in happened while opening the cover and allowing the cover to spring upright without keeping a hold on it. I know this didnt happend when I was using it, but perhaps the wife or kids did it. Either way since this is our first hot tub, and we received no direction on operating the lifter, and it came with no written instructions, I can see how someone might allow the cover to lift itself upright after folding it in half. Its fixed now, and at no charge, although if they break again I'm out of luck.
Frankeyboy
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Below is a pic of the broken shock
(http://frankeyboy.zoto.com/img/45/6a3ec4cf2893ba91bdecfd8f0ece9ee3-.jpg)
Frankeyboy
For the life of me I am really trying to get my bearings right and figure this picture out. I realize it is the end of the hydraulic lifter that is attached to the pivot point represented by the "nut" anchored to the frame of the lifter. Is this attached to the spa? What are you holding next to it? The tension clip has orange something on it, is that rust or corrosion?
I am sorry to say this, but I can't make out what is broken. I don't see the plastic or what appears to be broken and see something that appears to have corrosion on it. Can you help me out here to see what is broken? ??? ??? ???
.....I have had it about a month and a half. Recently the plastic brackets that attach the shocks to the metal framing of the cover lifter cracked and fell apart. The lifter still works, but it takes a lot more effort to lift it. .....Frankeyboy
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A few days ago a customer called to say that his spa was broken. He told me it is set on 98* and his thermometer is reading 102*. His spa is sitting on his deck in the middle of a Texas summer sun. I told him it is just hot and gave him some suggestions on how to cool it off. No, he insisted the spa was broken. Our service manager called him and explained it to him. No, he insisted we come out and fix the spa immediately.
Service manager went out, did a diagnostic, found nothing wrong. We did not charge him as he is a new customer.
A week later he called to say his spa is set on 95* and it is actually 102*. We went over the whole scenario again and he insisted we come out and fix the spa. Again, nothing was wrong with it, but he was charged a service fee.
I believe we tried everything we could to save him some money. I can only assume he thought that we did not want to provide him service. Sometimes, it just goes like that, but only on rare occasions.
Terminator
We have experienced the same scenario over and over a 100 times, and then when you do charge them they tell 100 other people what a bad business you are. You know, it takes the life out of you when it's not fun anymore, this business used to be fun and rewarding, as we had a personal relationship with just about every customer. But, when others sell for you, you loose that personal contact and they are not your friends anymore.
Drewski notes my cynisisim and frustration of 21 years of appeasing and satisfying retail customers who don't even say thank you any more. Especially when they believe dealers are all getting rich on their purchase.
I don't have a yacht, I can't play golf, I am forever at the store waiting for the next customer to call or the next shopper to come in. My wife and I have dedicated 60 hours a week, working 6 day weeks and as you can see, it is easy to react like Drewski when you're having one of those days, or weeks. Well we have been having those days since 9/11 and we try harder to please people.
As suggested here, people still want more for less and everything for FREE. As evidenced from threads on this forum, they want everything that was included in the sale last week to be included with what the promotional item is this week. And when they don't get it, they turn and walk and tell 20 people not to go there. Every dealer reading this is shaking their head yes, but we must maintain decorum and be polite. Well, I guess I have an edge and there is a reason for it.
Well, Drew, both of you, I have had a bad day too as you can see. I am honest and I tell the truth. I was on this board when a shopper was actually shopping us and wanted to buy from me but they didn't. He just worked me. And the honest truth, the other dealer grossed 11% after selling expenses (adjusted gross) on his transaction, and he wasn't happy with the service either. And, while you may find it hard to believe, I am really a very nice guy and I know my stuff, ask mowgli ;D
So, I put the money down on a new Bahia.
To me this was the clear value choice. But the last leg of the journey was not very enjoyable.
The dealer we wanted to go with was willing to "match" our best price for the tub. Then a couple of red flags went off. Like a $50 per trip for service. Swapping out the 04 model (the quote was for the 05). Maximum 1 hour onsite delivery or a charge would be assessed. No 12 months same as cash. The unfortunate aspect was that this dealer seemed to be very knowledgeable about the tubs and and was willing to make himself available by cell phone every day until 11 pm.
The HotSprings dealer was less of a pleasure to deal with. We called them up and said we had decided on the Bahia. I guess the sales guy decided this was the appropriate time to be a jerk. He then said how bad of a tub the Sundance line was and that Sundance "finds" ways of voiding the warranty. The sales guy then proceed to state untrue facts about the Bahia. Fortunately for me, I have high speed internet access and finding the owners manual for the Bahia, I was able to defunct many of the myths that he stated. I think his last ditch effort was that he faxed me a comparison sheet of the Bahia vs the Caspian vs the Mallorca (the hotspots line of tub). Saying that if I were shopping for a price point then I should have been looking at the HotSpots line instead of the far superior Tiger River line. After looking at the comparison sheet between the three tubs, he convinced me that the Bahia was the best value of the three tubs.
So everyone always wants to know the deal that others got. Your math may very, but:
2005 Bahia delivered with cover
Resin steps
Sun glo lighting option
Extra filter
Sample set of chems
Full size of chems ($90 retail value)
Covermate III (hydraulic lift)
All options installed
12 Months Same as Cash
No service fees for warranty work (trip fee)
NO OZONE
$5395 + tax (6% in Michigan)
Now the waiting begins. An elusive date of 3 to 7 weeks delivery time. Which is somewhat okay considering we have to get homeowners association approval for said hot tub.
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For the life of me I am really trying to get my bearings right and figure this picture out. I realize it is the end of the hydraulic lifter that is attached to the pivot point represented by the "nut" anchored to the frame of the lifter. Is this attached to the spa? What are you holding next to it? The tension clip has orange something on it, is that rust or corrosion?
I am sorry to say this, but I can't make out what is broken. I don't see the plastic or what appears to be broken and see something that appears to have corrosion on it. Can you help me out here to see what is broken? ??? ??? ???
The orange color you see is rust. Now that the new shock is in place, I realize that the old shock was broken at the other end (not pictured). I just assumed that the plastic piece laying on the deck was supposed to be covering the rusted tension clip at the top of the shock, but it was acutually from the bottom of the shock which was not visible until the shock was removed.
Frankeyboy
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Regardless of how much a person pays - things like trip charges should be disclosed by the dealer before a person pays for the tub - maybe have it on the sales contract.
J._McD,
You make it sound like we all beat up on dealers when we shop. I personally didn't. I did ask about price and IF I didn't like the price - I walked! I walked out of a Hot Spring dealer because I personally thought what I was getting for MY money wasn't a lot. Is HS a good company - sure it is, but I wanted more bang for my buck.
It is up to the dealer to decided what his or her profit margin is AND if the dealer sells below the profit margin - THAT'S THE DEALERS PROBLEM. Not every customer is a snake nor is every dealer a honest person.
Any salesperson should realize that sometimes money is the issue and yes you need to make a living too, which is why I didn't beat up on any dealer - OK I did beat up on the HS dealer after he was getting nasty with me!
You talk about customer service - I'm in the repair industry too, I repair medical equipment. In my account I have "good customers" and "bad customers" - I treat my good customers great - I've been at my account now for 15 years. I give services away and I charge when needed. But when I do charge, I'm never questioned. IMO if you have a happy and good customer and they like you - they will always reward you with repeat business and accolades. I have a staff of 3 other people but it's always " talk to Vinny" because I'll make MY customer happy. BTW, they just bought $2,500,000 in equipment BECAUSE OF SERVICE!!! NOT because of a salesperson! I don't make a penny from the sale, but I look at it as job security.
I think anyone should have free service to their tub and accessories during at least a 6 month period IF the dealer installed the item. I believe Sundance uses it's own cover lifter, at least that's what I was told during my shopping - it was color coordinated with the cover.
I agree that ANY customer can be a pain - I have them too. Sometimes it's best business practice to make them walk away (sales) or to charge them on repeat calls (service) so that you can concentrate on your better customers.
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I'll take a stab at this. The plastic ends on the gas shock broke because instead of lifting it by one of the handles on the sides, it was left to just SPROING on up, and wobble into position instead of gently raising it up by hand. I have the same lifter on display on a wet demo in my store. When demonstrating the lifter, if I just flop the cover over that baby starts raising up all by itself. If I didn't get hold of it and s l o w i t d o w n, I'd be replacing broken shocks every week.
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Regardless of how much a person pays - things like trip charges should be disclosed by the dealer before a person pays for the tub - maybe have it on the sales contract……
I don’t believe my reactions have anything to do with price, but everything with attitude and how people are treated with any level of respect. I certainly seems like shoppers have no respect for dealers, and their decisions have everything to do with price and what they get.
The dealer we wanted to go with was willing to "match" our best price for the tub. Then a couple of red flags went off. Like a $50 per trip for service..... Maximum 1 hour onsite delivery or a charge would be assessed. No 12 months same as cash. The unfortunate aspect was that this dealer seemed to be very knowledgeable about the tubs and was willing to make himself available by cell phone every day until 11 pm
I am all about friendly and knowledgeable service and assistance and even provide a 48 to 52 page booklet that we have developed over our 21 years of learning from customers. Frankeyboy’s cover lifter should never have been broken, nor should it have never corroded within 6 weeks, frankly, or honestly, this is chemical damage and the damage caused by abuse. I am glad the dealer took care of it for him, and I would have too. We all make mistakes when things are new and I believe he recognizes that it is not a defective product, but an unfortunate experience that could have been avoided, (teenagers.
But then everybody chimes in with with how it is “unethical” and how the situation should be handled.
Don't make any judgements until you can speak with experience after walking in their shoes .
Frankly, I was honest with Michigander which was a big RED flag to him. I even told him deliveries rarely ever take more than 60 minutes, but he was crippled by fear that we would charge him something, another big RED flag. I have had customers keep the delivery crew for 3 hours once and move the spa to 3 different places. So he decided not to buy and took my sales agreement to another competing dealer to get still a better deal. Well, if you read his thread, he wasn’t to happy when he had to wait a week to move a jumper pin. Again, others chimed in with their opinions. I am known to be there in 30 minutes in a case like that, again they had criticism for dealers.
I guess what I am suffering from is the gross lack of respect of the two parties at hand here, the consumer and the dealer who do not trust each other, but WHY? Is it about cheaper pricing or someone making money, much less that it should be too much money? ???
I bid for his business and I didn’t get it. I matched everything, but I was honest and told him everything.
So, what did it get me and that takes me back to this thread.
Dealers ARE all about SERVICE. We don’t get a lot of repeat buyer’s that buy multiple spas, but we do get referrals, that is unless they experience PRODUCT failure and you and I have discussed that before. Some dealers know what I am talking about, WE get blamed for everything and I am going to be their outspoken voice here in the forum. They are here to watch and learn, I have a different agenda.
BTW, It is not we collectively, it is some individually.
Anyone else want to knock my head off? And No Vinny, I don’t think you did. ;)
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NAAAA,
I won't knock your head off anymore -- everyone has a bad day occasionally. At least you admitted it....
Take a soak....
Drewski
:P
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Just to point one thing out about that coverlift. It was not chemical abuse that caused it to rust.
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Just to point one thing out about that coverlift. It was not chemical abuse that caused it to rust.
What could it be in 6 weeks? ???
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J_McD wrote:
"....I don’t believe my reactions have anything to do with price, but everything with attitude and how people are treated with any level of respect..."
I'm tyring to really hold my tounge on that statment.
Why then when I make a comment that I don't think a cusotmer should pay $45 dollars for a broken lifter you call me an arm chair quaterback and insuate that my opinion, experinece and beliefs are any less valuable?
In one note you voice frustration over "What does a customer want" and I suggest to listen. Here was a great example of what customers have issues and concerns with and when I note that, you insult me.
You talk about respect, but in this fourm, my experince of you is that you do not show it to others. As a dealer in this fourm, you'd be better served not to belittle customers.
Tell me, in your store, do you notice a lot of people shaking thier head as they walk out and mutter somthing along the lines of "Arrogant dick head" ?
No?
Maybe you should pay better attention.
Kiss off J_McD. You talk abot respect but in the few months I 've been here, you've done nothing but belittle me and condecending.
See ya.
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What could it be in 6 weeks? ???
What do you mean by chemical abuse? Absolutely nothing has been done to the cover lifter, other than opening and closing it. Are you saying that it should not be rusting so soon because of some defect, or are you saying that I did something to it to make it rust?
Frankeyboy
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J_McD wrote:
"....I don’t believe my reactions have anything to do with price, but everything with attitude and how people are treated with any level of respect..."
I'm tyring to really hold my tounge on that statment.
Why then when I make a comment that I don't think a cusotmer should pay $45 dollars for a broken lifter you call me an arm chair quaterback and insuate that my opinion, experinece and beliefs are any less valuable?
In one note you voice frustration over "What does a customer want" and I suggest to listen. Here was a great example of what customers have issues and concerns with and when I note that, you insult me.
You talk about respect, but in this fourm, my experince of you is that you do not show it to others. As a dealer in this fourm, you'd be better served not to belittle customers.
Tell me, in your store, do you notice a lot of people shaking thier head as they walk out and mutter somthing along the lines of "Arrogant dick head" ?
No?
Maybe you should pay better attention.
Kiss off J_McD. You talk abot respect but in the few months I 've been here, you've done nothing but belittle me and condecending.
See ya.
Drew that may be a little bit harsh, but I have noted the same negitive attitude from Jmcd. Most of his posts make a reference to a customer beating up the dealer over price or service some where in the post. His posts seem to say he needs a attitude adjustment. His attitude my very well be why he is seeing more and more customers leaving without buying. His attitude is the only thing he has complete control of. On this forum his attitude is very different from other dealers. If his attitude is the same with customers as it is on this forum then I know why he is seeing less buyers and more customers walking out without buying. Jmcd read your posts and give yourself a honest evauluation. Remember your personal attitude is the ONLY thing you have complete control of. All people who come in contact with you will judge by your attitude.
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"What could it be in 6 weeks? "
A manufacturing defect. Although cosmetic, it is nothing that frankeyboy has done to cause this.
I have dealt with plenty of those lifters. The broken piece I would ASSUME was done by the customer, but the rust? No way.
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What do you mean by chemical abuse? Absolutely nothing has been done to the cover lifter, other than opening and closing it. Are you saying that it should not be rusting so soon because of some defect, or are you saying that I did something to it to make it rust?
Frankeyboy
No, I am asking and trying to understand what the orange is that I am guessing to be "rust" and what could have caused it within 6 weeks of exposure. In difference with SerjicalStrike, I have never had any of the spring clips rust but, then we use more covermate II's than the hydraulic lifters. We have just had too many of the hydraulic lifters require service and they are usually broken from excessive stress by trying to close the cover not knowing how the lifter works.
We tell the homeowner, but when other people use the spa and they mysteriously break, must be a weak point in manufacturing. ???
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No, I am asking and trying to understand what the ogance is that ia guessing to be "rust" and what could have caused it within 6 weeks.
Yes it is rust. All the hardware holding the shocks to the cover lifter were rusting. Apparently none of the metal on the shocks is made to be exposed to moisture. All the bolts holding the lifter to the spa cabinet are stainless and look as good as new. Also the metal bar that extends across the middle of the cover is also rusting and leaving puddles of rust stains on my cover. The make and model of this lifter is SUPERLIFT2/Ideal cover lift manufactured by Ideal Spa covers, Inc. I would recommend staying away from this lifter.
Frankeyboy
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"What could it be in 6 weeks? "
A manufacturing defect. Although cosmetic, it is nothing that frankeyboy has done to cause this.
I have dealt with plenty of those lifters. The broken piece I would ASSUME was done by the customer, but the rust? No way.
The rust is from oxidation and is only the symptom, it is not acceptable within 6 weeks. As Frankeyboy points out other components are stainless steele screws and the cross bar is rusting as well, staining the cover. This is the symptom, the real problem is the cause of the corrosion within 6 weeks that will lead to deterioration, eventual product failure and a very short product life, both the lifter and the cover are being affected and they are intended to be used under these conditions. Why is it rusting so badly, so soon and what will the eventual result be? ???
This is what I am trying to get at. Possibility include chemical oxidizers, seashore salt air, what else? ??? If Frankeyboy dosen't find the answer, he will be buying a new cover because of the ugly rust stains dripping from it and running down the side of his new cabinet. He should get a new but different cover lifter that WON'T rust or oxidize or find the cause and stop it from occuring.
I am really trying to help.
I am not chastizing or criticizing whether or not charging a "service charge", a "truck charge" or any other charge is ethical, appropriate or thought to be included in the price of the spa for life. THIS IS NOT THE PROBLEM, but it is the first thing to come up. The cover lifter is the source of the problem and Frankeyboy provided a picture that is identifying the real problem, THE NEED FOR SERVICE and WHY. Someone broke it and it is rusting very badly. That is what need to get fixed and neither one of them is covered under warranty, just customer service.
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Six weeks and something is rusting? I am sorry about that. I hope your dealer will replace it. And J_mcd what brand do you sell? I hope that you don't treat people like this in person but I can say this I bet you want to cut people down the same way in person as you do here.
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J_McD.
you see, I think this is part of our problem. I honestly think that you and I are saying the exact same thing, yet you tell me I'm am armchair quaterback, and other snide snippets.
Read my posts again. I said "in this circumstance". Which, we soon learned it is covered and will be repaired for free.
You also said you'd do the same thing that you'd fix it for free, given we are only 1.5 months into the new tub.
Huh. Maybe I should run my own spa business. ;D
You guys all take wednesdays off to play golf, right? -
Drew, opposites attract while those that are the same, clash. Is it in my transmission or is it in your reception?
It wasn't covered but it was repaired free by a good dealer as most of us are. I trust and that he was treated with some level of courtesy and respect. I have most commonly been on the other end listening to the customer complaining and taking a beating for something like this to even occur. But, I might point out, someone did buy those replacement shocks and someone did pay the expenses of travel and time to satisfy a customer. Frankenboy has acknowledged the probable cause and the eventual result.
Yes, I have always taken the path of least resistance, I have always had a good attitude with customers. But, it is the angry customers that you deal with the greater part of the time. There are reasons that I am tired. But, when people are encouraged here to challenge someone trying to stay in business and paying the ever increasing expenses such a gas, it is difficult to think it is right.
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I have to stand up for J_McD a bit here...
At first it was a bit hard to take the fact that he came on so strong being a newbie to the board but after reading many of his post it was apparent that he was not a newbie to the industry! Now that he has been around awhile I find that he often says what I'm thinking.
We all need a place to unload and although some of you from the customer perspective may not understand some of what most spa dealers go through it is not that similar to other industries.
Not many people go into Sears and say "I know that is what your asking for that riding mower but the guy down the street is selling it for this much. If you'll drop the price I will consider it." nor do many people hold big box stores as accountable as they do our type of business.
I love what I do and truly appreciate our customers however, there are times when I appreciate the fact that I can "unload" to others in the industry and get things off my chest so that I can have a better attitude towards more difficult customers.
JMcD has a good bit of wisdom and I have gotten a lot out of many of his posts even when I didn't completely agree (and that's not often!).
IMO, he does a better job than many others here at staying nuetral and not just touting the brand he sells....
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I didn't want to go here about the lifter, but I will. They are crap. Every one we sold rusted and we replaced them at no charge to the customer with a different hydraulic lift. The rust was just a cosmetics thing, but it should not have happened. Even the one we had in our showroom rusted. They are a good heavy duty lifter, but for some reason rust like there's no tomorrow.
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Last week we had our first service call to replace our blower motor. It just quit while in use. The man was about 10mi from us, but we had to pay $65 for a trip fee. I'm not complaining really, he was on time, did fast, good work and friendly and professional. Just seems strange to pay for something still 100% under warranty.
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Nothing is free, and our spa warranties are no exception. We pay for it in the price we pay for the spa.
Apparently, spa companies don't reimburse the dealers to compensate for their travel time on warranty calls. If they did, dealers wouldn't have to pass this expense onto the person needing warranty service.
Maybe people like me, who have spa dealers who don't charge for travel to a warranty repair paid the cost up front in what the dealer charged for the spa. Perhaps people with a dealer who charges a trip fee got a spa a little cheaper.
If the spa companies compensated dealers for their travel time, thus increasing their warranty related expenses, they'd pass along the expense in higher priced merchandise. Either way, we pay.
My $02.
Brewman
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Sure, I don't expect my dealer to go broke servicing me. However, I do expect a dealer who charges a premium price for the tub, and sells his product on his service, not to hit me up for a Truck fee for every little thing. If after just a few weeks my cover lifter broke and it seemed that it was a faulty product, I'd expect the dealer to work with me.
After all, you want me to purchase my chemicals and supplies from you, be an advocate of your dealership and refer people to you, as well as come back for my next tub, I'd like to think that something like this would be fixed sans a service fee.
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After all, you want me to purchase my chemicals and supplies from you, be an advocate of your dealership and refer people to you, as well as come back for my next tub, I'd like to think that something like this would be fixed sans a service fee.
Just an update in case you missed it earlier. I called the dealer to have the lifter fixed on Sunday afternoon. I received a call back Monday morning, and Monday afternoon at 1pm it was fixed....at no charge, and no truck fee. After reading my warranty closely I realized that the shocks are not covered by the warranty since they were very likely broken by misuse (although we had no documentation or training on how to use the lifter), and it does state the a "reduced rate truck fee" will be assesed for all warranty work ($45). I am very happy with the service my dealer gave me, and although it is a 45 minute drive to his showroom, I am going to make the trip whenever I need supplies.
Frankeyboy
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Frankie, maybe I missed it, but did the dealer have anything to say about the apparent corrosion, or have any ideas on why this thing blew out?
I'm glad to hear that you were taken care of.
How do you like the phnematic cover lift (aside from the bad shock, lets assume that was an aberation and not the norm)?
Would you recomend them or next time go with the cheaper, non phneumatic style?
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Frankie, maybe I missed it, but did the dealer have anything to say about the apparent corrosion, or have any ideas on why this thing blew out?
I'm glad to hear that you were taken care of.
How do you like the phnematic cover lift (aside from the bad shock, lets assume that was an aberation and not the norm)?
Would you recomend them or next time go with the cheaper, non phneumatic style?
I got this type of cover for two reasons. One, it was the only type that would fit in the space between my tub and the railing of the deck (there is only 12 inches of space). Two, it serves as a privacy screen (we have neighbors about 30 feet from the tub on the north side of the house) and the upright cover blocks their view. This type of lifter makes it very easy to lift the cover. After folding it in half, it will actually lift inself upright if you don't hang on to it, which is nice to help the wife and kids to lift it, but bad if they let it spring into place.
I mentioned the rust spots on the cover and he said that it is caused when the adjustable cross bar is extended during installation. The metal grinds against itself removing some of the paint. The exposed metal quickly rusts and drips onto the cover. So far it has not stained the cover, and its easy to wipe off. Considering how well they took care of me by replacing the shocks so quickly, I did'nt want to complain too much about the rust puddles. I was not aware that this type of lifter costs more than the others, I just mentioned that I needed this type of lifter when we made the deal for the tub. I would not recommend this brand (Superlift2 Ideal cover lift) because it is so easy to break the shocks, and the rusting problem, but apparently there are different brands of this type of lifter that don't have these problems. Anyone have any brand and model recommendations for this type of lifter?
Frankeyboy
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I wasn't really given a choice of cover lifters when I purchased my tub. It was just included in the deal. IT's a covermate and is just the basic rod that you manually lift up.
The tub is 7' x 7' so we are not talking about a HUGE tub/cover. It works well. Although somtimes i wonder, since i am always lifting the cover from one side of the tub, if the thing might twist out? I have no privacy issues and would have prefered to have a lifter that dropped the cover as far down as possible. (something I did not think of when buying this tub - my old round tub did not have a lifter and i was just thrilled to be getting one). No complaints though. So far, so good.
On antother note: This whole service/truck fee thing has me wondering if there would be any feasability in some sort of "extended warrenty" option for tubs...pay a certian premium and all repairs, labor and even some maitainece will be taken care of?
Kinda like a AAA for hot tubs? ;D
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There are multiple cover lifters for the dealer to chose from depending the the needs and the circumstances surrounding the placement. We use 6 different lifters and each one of them has a specific reason why it would be used in lieu of any other.
We have an extensive discussion regading the most popular seating in the spa, what you will be looking at, the location of the equipment, service access, privacy, prevailing winds, the opening direction of the cover, space needed to recieve the cover etc.
We do not like putting the cover brackets on the equipment panel side because it interfers with service access, of course the customer says they can just take it off for service. This takes time and needs to be put back on and becomes an access problem for which WE MAY consider a charge for 1/4 hour time for doing so. But then of course, the customer is certainly at liberty to remove it before service, but the customer usually see's the wisdom of our ways. This is where you all want to tell me it should be included in the price you paid for the spa. That makes you a very normal customer.
Drew's recommendation of an exteded warranty service to cover such charges such as trip charges, truck charges, access charges, gas charges even belly crawl charges. That conversation would probably end the sale opportunity as they would walk. BTW, We will NEVER crawl under a deck to work on a spa although we have been asked and expected to do so. Sorry. We also have this discussion in the planning and preparation discussions with our customer. Sometime they don't listen and do it their way anyway. Sorry.
During my years in this business, I once did just that. The homeowner could not be home and assured me he would turn the power off as he had no way to control the power outside, (stupid, sorry). I was only going to pull the power pak and bring it back to the shop for evaluation. Well, I was stupid and didn't meter the line that I unscrewed and the wires I pulled out that FLASHED when pulling them from the metal enclosure and didn't trip. The wires were hot.
My wife didn't know my travels for that day, the homeowner wasn't home, it was a lake front and probably would never have found me for a couple of days. My people don't crawl, that's the rule, period.
The idea of an up front discussion about charges becomes another financial decision for the shopper and creates fear in his mind. See Michigander's comments when you are honest up front. You don't get the business and the competitor that lies or doesn't disclose same get's the business and 6 months later they come in and tell you the story of why they didn't buy from you and the competitor charged them but didn't tell them up front. That's when the say "I am going to buy my next spa from you and I won't go back to him except for warranty, now can you take an hour and talk to me about water chemistry." Dealers see this happen a thousand times over and over the longer they stay in this business.
Well, I've got the ba33's to tell you about it today. Some people lately have an opinion about a truthful or is it an honest point of view, even if it differ's from norm or the way you see it. Sorry about that, maybe there is a reason for my being blunt but truthful.
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In my case, the possiblity of dealer trip charges is stated in my warranty, which I read before I agreed to purchase the spa. So I knew it was possible. But my dealer doesn't choose to levy this cost.
I'd take a discount on the purchase price over a trip charge waver.
Brewman
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I think the key is to let the customer know exactly what is covered and not, what the charges before hand. There is nothing worse than getting blindsided with some charge that you thought was covered.
My dealer explined them to me upfront. And said "we MAY charge you a travel fee" It's at thier discretion. I would think that if they were next door fixing Old lady's Johnson's pump and I needed the broken lifter installed, I'd either be comped the charge since they were out there already, or maybe me and the old bag next door would split the charge....
My service idea was more along the lines of..."yup eveything is covered with your standard warrently...except x y and z. That's the industry standard. We also charge a truck fee of $1 for calls within 30 miles, etc
However, if you'd like we have a prefered maintence agreement, where we will come out 3 times a year, peform a water change, balance all the chemicals, perfom a routine maintece/check up on your tub, (and try to sell you additioanl chems and doo dads ). The prefered maintence agreement drops the truck fee down from $1 to 25 cents.
I dunno. I'm just talking out loud.....
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The idea of an up front discussion about charges becomes another financial decision for the shopper and creates fear in his mind. See Michigander's comments when you are honest up front. You don't get the business and the competitor that lies or doesn't disclose same get's the business ...
So you say: "I charge $45 gas/mileage/whatever charge, but it's a flat fee whether and many dealers do this because of X,Y,Z. Look at the warranties of other dealers (what is in writing) and you will see this is a common practice."
Then, the newly enfeared customer goes to someone else, but includes that in their purchasing decisions. Your competitor either charges the fee and has it in the materials, or your competitor does not charge the fee.
If your competitor also charges a fee and/or leaves themselves open to charging a fee in their verbage, you haven't lost an advantage. In fact, your honesty might have gained you an advantage.
If your competitor doesn't charge a fee, maybe you should ask yourself how they are able to make this more financially possible??
My dealer charges this fee (~$40) but I'm close by and won't pay it if I can just stop by and pick things up. Fortunately, my HS hasn't had any problems in its first 1.5 years aside from a ball-bearing jet which came undone and we picked up a replacement. But in talking to the repair guy there, he seemed pretty busy. It seemed he had at least 3-4 jobs a day??
What's the math there? $160 a day. $800 for a 5 day work week. $41.6k a year? Do manufacturers reimburse for labor as well as parts? I hope not, because if my numbers are anywhere close to correct, that $40 fee is paying the repair guys salary!!
-Ed
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The truck fee things are all new to me. I did not read the fine print in the warranty paperwork until it was too late. I just assumed parts/labor includes everything including the cost to get to my house. I have never had this type of fee mentioned when having any other item serviced at my house. After reading all the posts regarding this, I think the truck fee is actually a good idea. It will make me think twice about calling the repair guys out to adjust the pillows, or reprogram the cleaning cycles, or some other type of thing that I could easily fix myself if I just took the time to read the manual.
Frankeyboy
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drewstar,
I have a Covermate 3 which has the pneumatic shocks and it's great. Like frankeyboy, I bought it for the same 2 reasons: ease of operation, although it doesn't spring open like his, and the privacy it gives. If you don't mind a cover about a foot away from you and standing 1/2 the size of your tub tall, it really is a nice lifter IMO.
Vinny
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I think the key is to let the customer know exactly what is covered and not, what the charges before hand. There is nothing worse than getting blindsided with some charge that you thought was covered.
My dealer explined them to me upfront. And said "we MAY charge you a travel fee" It's at thier discretion. I would think that if they were next door fixing Old lady's Johnson's pump and I needed the broken lifter installed, I'd either be comped the charge since they were out there already, or maybe me and the old bag next door would split the charge....
My service idea was more along the lines of..."yup eveything is covered with your standard warrently...except x y and z. That's the industry standard. We also charge a truck fee of $1 for calls within 30 miles, etc
However, if you'd like we have a prefered maintence agreement, where we will come out 3 times a year, peform a water change, balance all the chemicals, perfom a routine maintece/check up on your tub, (and try to sell you additioanl chems and doo dads ). The prefered maintence agreement drops the truck fee down from $1 to 25 cents.
I dunno. I'm just talking out loud.....
Drew, why do your relate to "old lady's Johnston's..." and the "the old bag next door....." are you aware how disrespectful that sounds and it makes you come across as both rude and crass with, well......then again, it tells us what you think.
And beside, don't you get my point, I tell them up front and they walk out the door and don't buy. Don't you get it, most dealers don't tell you up fron and get the sale. How silly of my, eh! That's what I'm doing wrong.
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The truck fee things are all new to me. I did not read the fine print in the warranty paperwork until it was too late. I just assumed parts/labor includes everything including the cost to get to my house. .............After reading all the posts regarding this, I think the truck fee is actually a good idea. It will make me think twice about calling the repair guys out to adjust the pillows, or reprogram the cleaning cycles, or some other type of thing that I could easily fix myself if I just took the time to read the manual.
Frankeyboy
Frankeyboy, no disrespect and no offense intended, but this has gone full circle and the whole ideal of a trip charge is summarized in your statement. While I take a beating here for my outspoken manner, you have hit the nail on the head. Do you understand how beneficial that is to every pre-newbie lurking in the background learning from these threads. We learn by experience, and you had an experience.
It would be nice to think you shouldn't have to look for the fine print, but every warranty states it, "reasonable and customary travel repairman charges not just the gas. Please refer to my earlier post where it stated, "help me help you" before I have to come out there.
Everybody thinks we are getting ungodly rich in this business catering to customer needs, when it cost us money to run and operate a business and they don't want to help us stay in business. I wish there was a way, but as long as we rely on shoppers who want the lowest price to become customers that want everything at no charge, we are only going to go out of business and not be there for you.
I believe shoppers that get their input from in this forum are given some misguided advice that they believe is normal and the right thing to do.
Some of you may be shocked to know that we do do a very good business and that our customers are cared for like no other customer and more importantly, they are our friends.
Do you cheat your friends, or take advantage of them? ??? And we appreciate customers that treat us like their frineds. Do you take such actions that are referenced in this thread with your friends? ???
Our society has changed.
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Drew, why do your relate to "old lady's Johnston's..." and the "the old bag next door....." are you aware how disrespectful that sounds and it makes you come across as both rude and crass with, well......then again, it tells us what you think.
And beside, don't you get my point, I tell them up front and they walk out the door and don't buy. Don't you get it, most dealers don't tell you up fron and get the sale. How silly of my, eh! That's what I'm doing wrong.
Did I say that YOU didn't tell them up front? It was a general observation. "Calm down, Francis. "
Who was I being disrepectful to? Unless you are my fictious neghbor, I'd get over it. Sounds like a personal problem to me....
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Gosh,
Dealers must be going broke.
What about us retirees that dont get increases to their retirement and cant afford extream charges or in a lot of other shafted charges that dealers charge. Same old crap, buyer beware.
To much greed out there. Nickel diming people is the way of life.
Dick
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Gosh,
How about the high price electricians charge for laying a wire thru the attic, drilling two holes, counnecting both ends, and slapping a GFCI on the wall. And having the grapes to charge $550 to $850. for a simple job.
Now if it has to go under concrete maybe that would be appropriate cost. Greed has a way of paying back. Vengence is mine sayth the Lord.
Dick
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Did I say that YOU didn't tell them up front? It was a general observation. "Calm down, Francis. "
Who was I being disrepectful to? Unless you are my fictious neghbor, I'd get over it. Sounds like a personal problem to me....
Actually, I think it's "Lighten up, Francis".
Stripes, right?
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Actually, I think it's "Lighten up, Francis".
Stripes, right?
Bingo. ;)
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Gosh,
How about the high price electricians charge for laying a wire thru the attic, drilling two holes, counnecting both ends, and slapping a GFCI on the wall. And having the grapes to charge $550 to $850. for a simple job.
Now if it has to go under concrete maybe that would be appropriate cost. Greed has a way of paying back. Vengence is mine sayth the Lord.
Dick
A decent licensed electircan gets about 50-75 bucks and hour here in MA, plus material. My guy charges me $50 and I'm happy with him.
$850 sounds a bit high for a "typical" hot tub job?
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If you need to upgrade your electrical service and/or install a new breaker box it's a flat fee around here: $800, +/- $50. I called a bunch of electricians.
You need to be licensed to do the work, and permits must be filed, and that's the going rate! Ugh.
-Ed
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Everybody thinks we are getting ungodly rich in this business catering to customer needs, when it cost us money to run and operate a business and they don't want to help us stay in business. I wish there was a way, but as long as we rely on shoppers who want the lowest price to become customers that want everything at no charge, we are only going to go out of business and not be there for you.
Just to make sure I understand this, and I'll be brief to try and cut down on misunderstanding:
The charge levied is meant to generate a revenue stream.
The need for this extra revenue stream is possibly tied to cutting prices on hot tubs.
Now, I'll rephrase the above:
In order to make sales, I will charge less up front and then make the money back with unexpected fees later on. To keep things civil, I will go out of my way to be polite to those paying these unexpected charges. Oh, and I'm being civil out of pure altruism because my customers have no other alternative for warranty work, leaving them stuck with no repairs or a $45 repair. So, I could be decidedly uncivil about it, and some dealers *are*, but I'm not that kinda guy.
That still seems fuzzy to me, but I do understand your argument of: "I'm a nice guy. Please give me money."
-Ed
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If you need to upgrade your electrical service and/or install a new breaker box it's a flat fee around here: $800, +/- $50. I called a bunch of electricians.
You need to be licensed to do the work, and permits must be filed, and that's the going rate! Ugh.
-Ed
Supply and demand. Around here, construction has been booming for several years. There is plenty of work, and the trades can pick and choose what they want to work on. Job like spa wiring see pretty easy, and probably are, but still take up time- the electrician could probably make more during that same time period working on a larger project. So the bids on smaller jobs tend to creep up in response. At times, it was difficult getting anyone to even show up for bids.
A couple years ago you couldn't get a drywall crew to even consider a small job- they all were busy on new houses. Those that did show gave unbelievably high estimates becase they could.
One of the nice things about being a DIY'er, I don't have to deal with that so much.
Brewman
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Illegals,
what we need here in this country are a lot more illegals with experience.
Open the borders to them.
Cut costs for the american people.
Dick
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I for one will not screw around wasting my valuable time trying to deal with dealers or mfgs on solving a problem if not acted on within a proper time.
I will just hand it over to my son in law (lawyer) and deal it that way. They can than pay all the necessary fees.
Dick
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I for one will not screw around wasting my valuable time trying to deal with dealers or mfgs on solving a problem if not acted on within a proper time.
I will just hand it over to my son in law (lawyer) and deal it that way. They can than pay all the necessary fees.
Dick
you seem to be REALLY, REALLY negative toward spas/dealers in general. mind if i ask what happened to give you this..."outlook" ?
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I for one will not screw around wasting my valuable time trying to deal with dealers or mfgs on solving a problem if not acted on within a proper time.
I will just hand it over to my son in law (lawyer) and deal it that way. They can than pay all the necessary fees.
Dick
It sure would have been interesting if you'd have bought from JA.
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Wtching to see if this thread will die a natural death.
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Do not feed the trolls. Something isn't right.
We've been fighting too much in here and it's starting to attrack trolls and lessen the credibility of the dealers in here.
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Obi Won,
No really....Just preparing for when I get my Spa in about three weeks.
With all the american crap I have purchased over time like cars, chairs, computers, monitors, cameria, missing parts, broken, cracked, oh well why should I complain about MADE IN USA.
Dick