Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: toronto_guy on July 26, 2005, 09:28:28 am
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...I'm thinking about buying CAL's BelAir hot tub - any comments or things I should be aware of?
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(http://www.calspas.com/spas/images/series/large/cba51belair.jpg)
big tub, lots of jets Looks nice. If you start comparing, very few manufacturers list their pumps using the Braking Horsepower anywmore. The 6hp listed will show up as around a 3.8 4.0hp on most manufacturers literature. Cal and Dynasty (my tub) were about the last still using that term. Now at least both manufacturers now identify that the figure they are using is the braking one.
Looks roomy, how many people in your family?
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there are four of us two adults and two children....what about quality and service?
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Cal Spas seem to generate a lot of complaints about dealers and the factory not honoring the warranty.
I have no experience personally with Cal Spas, but from what I've read on this board and others, proceed with caution. Do some searching and go from there.
At the very least, compare other brands as well as Cal.
Brewman
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there are four of us two adults and two children....what about quality and service?
I can't speak much to that. A few people have had problems with Cal and you can find their information on the net. I have one friend with a lower end Cal spa he bought 4 years ago. He has had no problems. Locally here in Columbus, Ohio the Cal/Hot Springs/Artesian dealer is well respected and supports their product.
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very few manufacturers list their pumps using the Braking Horsepower anywmore. The 6hp listed will show up as around a 3.8 4.0hp on most manufacturers literature. Cal and Dynasty (my tub) were about the last still using that term.
I find it easier to list the manufacturers that actually do list true horsepower than those that list bHP.
Watkins family
Jacuzzi family
Coleman
D-1
Any others?
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...the other unit I was looking at was Caldera hot tub, specifically the Niagara. Any comments on that one? - how would you say it rates in comparison to the BelAir?
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...the other unit I was looking at was Caldera hot tub, specifically the Niagara. Any comments on that one? - how would you say it rates in comparison to the BelAir?
There are many good spa makers out there like Caldera, Hot Springs, Sundance, Marquis, D1 ... who are known for Quality and service. The choices are many (certainly more than I listed) but Cal Spas is not one of the ones who comes with a solid reputation for qaulity and service IMO (or more imortantly, in the opinions of so many of their customers I've seen post on these sites). If you do go with Cal Spas make sure it's with a long time delaer who has a good reputation.
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I think there's far better choices in the Toronto area than Cal. Beachcomber, Arctic & Hydropool just to name a few are far better in regards to overall customer service, value and quality.
Speaking of companies being misleading in regards to HP, how do you guys sell against it? Do you have one of their pumps on display sitting beside a true 3HP pump for comparison?
Give me your creative ideas...
Steve
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Speaking of companies being misleading in regards to HP, how do you guys sell against it? Do you have one of their pumps on display sitting beside a true 3HP pump for comparison?
Give me your creative ideas...
Steve
I've had that dicsussion many times with customers. The light bulb goes on very quickly normally just by a verbal explanation but if you need a visual it would probably help if your literature shows it BOTH ways. The competition that tries to decieve (IMO) by listing BHP alone takes a huge credibility knock when that info is released.
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I think there's far better choices in the Toronto area than Cal. Beachcomber, Arctic & Hydropool just to name a few are far better in regards to overall customer service, value and quality.
Speaking of companies being misleading in regards to HP, how do you guys sell against it? Do you have one of their pumps on display sitting beside a true 3HP pump for comparison?
Give me your creative ideas...
Steve
Steve,
It is extremely easy to sell against. Go buy a 6hp motor with an inch and a half inner diameter plumbing on the wet end. Then show your 2.5 horsepower motor with 2 inch inner diameter plumbing on the wet end. Then ask the consumer which one pumps more water.
It works most of the time. Sometimes some old fart will tell the salesperson he is full of shit, but we all are sometimes.
Chris
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Give me your creative ideas...
Steve
Keeping in mind that if my life depended on sales skills I would be dead. I think I would make up a chart, put it on an easel in the store with a quick definition of both ratings and a cross reference chart so a customer could see for themself. The Sales guy could then throw in a blurb about, "We use the true horsepower rating as it is a more honest indication......" You have just implied honesty without bad mouthing a customer.
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O.k you all knew sooner or later I would chime in.BHP or regular horsepower is really irrelevant if you like what is coming out of the jets themselves I reccommend wet testing the spas,remember that this board only has a few reviews out of 100's of thousands of spas sold, as far as Cal Spas quality, I have been in the spa business for 11 yrs and have disected alot of spas and can tell you that they are built strong (among the strongest),the quality control is incredible,every manufacturer has some dissatisfied customers. The reviews on this board may or may not be real as there is no serial number listed to find out if these people have even seen a Cal Spa.I can tell you the G.E switchless pumps have an incredible rate of success compared to the other pumps I have worked with. I recommend that you wet test Cal Spas and other brands look at the warranties side by side,also look at the jet configurations side by side and compare, not only do Cal spas offer more,but you will pay far less than most of our competitors as the margins are not as high.Happy hunting. :D
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BHP or regular horsepower is really irrelevant if you like what is coming out of the jets themselves
True in that its the efficiency of the plumbing and how many jets each pump runs. But if 95% of people don't wet test, I see so reason for using BHP, other than to imply an advantage or superiority. If these motors were running a trolley car perhaps BHP would be an important factor. As for GE motors, I am all for them. Buy lots so my mom can keep getting her pension. They make good locomotives too.
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I agree simple horepower is misleading. A bigger tub with more jets might be better served to have more, smaller pumps than just a few monster pumps ? No?
Also larger pumps could equate to higher energy bills.
Would larger pumps make more noise? Generate more heat? Cost more per unit?
Personaly, I think a tub that you can fine tune the pressure would be best. Sometimes you want to be blasted out of your seat, others times not.
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Every brand uses something to tout superiority, I don't use horse power at all in my presentation I use 2 working models to demonstrate the water movement. Thats is what they are ultimately looking for is water volume though the jets, if it feels good buy it!I am switching to G.E light bulbs in my house to help out your mom.LOL ;)
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I look forward to the day when companies realize they are loosing credibility by touting BHP. As for now, they still don't get it but it certainly helps the rest of us out in closing sales by being honest! ;)
Kudos to those of you that don't intensionally mislead the buying public. Sorry, to those of you that purchased your spa because of those twin 7HP pumps. :-/
Steve
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A smart salesman would not let a consumer out the door without explaining the difference between BHP and actual HP,as you know your competition is going to tear you apart if you don't.
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I don't get the problem with a manufacture listing BHP.
Every car ever made is advertised using BHP or Max horse power. Most people understad that a Chevy Corvette does not produce 400hp at 3000rpm's going 55mph down the road.
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First do a little more research to see what is out there.
Once you've been at the dealerships, take the warranty cards, and compare them side by side. You'll understand.
If a delaer is going to try to sell you on BHP, tell them you're not going to play that game, and walk out. Misleading a consumer is the worst thing a dealer can do as a sales professional.
Steve, just like you, I appreciate a good salesman not for their salesmanship but the information provided to make well-informed decision in regards to a purchase.
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My Husband went into the local Cal dealer. The spa was up on a dolly and the pump compartment cover was off. He said that the insullation was the worst he saw of any of them at less than two inches thick and the plastic skirt was very tinny sounding. Stay away from this brand, it looks like a nice tub but beauty is only skin deep.
Good luck
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I don't get the problem with a manufacture listing BHP.
Every car ever made is advertised using BHP or Max horse power. Most people understad that a Chevy Corvette does not produce 400hp at 3000rpm's going 55mph down the road.
Extremely poor analogy. A spa running on high speed produces the continuas HP and not the BHP. A Vette full out (on high speed if you will) is producing maximum HP and torque when floored.
Steve
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I just got through the research process when I was shopping for a tub. Try calling some local independant spa repair shops and see what they have to say. Most of the time they are happy to share experience with you when servicing different brands of tubs. You can get an idea of how tubs fare down the road and possible how often they see failures. The info I got was that Cal Spas was often slow to respond with parts etc for warranty claims. Anyway, just a piece of info... for what it's worth....
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As I see it, the only useful information bhp provides is some snap in a sales brochure.
The implication is high hp = good. I still don't know what the hp ratings on my Optima are, nor do I really care. Whatever the power, I can get one helluva massage in the sucker.
Brewman
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See the reviews - all of them not just the ones most recently entered (click product to groupl them alphabetically.
I have spent 30% of my purchase price on repairs in two years. They are disreputable (no I refer to the company and not the dealer - the dealer in my case was criminally disreputable as his 5 year jail sentence proves).
Nevertheless this is not the spa to buy.
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Like Dino, I have had a myriad of problems with my Cal Spa. It's also difficult to find static dealers as they seem to come and go with the wind.
Take a look at the site Ripoffreport.com and do a search by Cal Spas.
I have owned mine for nearly 8 years and in that time I have replaced 2 PC boards, 2 heater elements, 1 ozone generator, 1 ozone bulb, repaired 13 blisters in the shell and repaired 2 leaks buried in the full foam. Each time I needed parts from the Cal Spas factory, it was a nightmare. Not to mention the fact that my warranty was blatantly misrepresented to me at the time of purchase.
There are indeed much better investments to be made in spas out there, and my advice would be to look elsewhere.
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Try calling some local independant spa repair shops and see what they have to say. Most of the time they are happy to share experience with you when servicing different brands of tubs. You can get an idea of how tubs fare down the road and possible how often they see failures.
Good idea, but also realize this:
These repair guys make their living by servicing the local dealers. Who do you think they're going to refer you to? In a small market like ours, there are only about 3 guys doing spa repairs and the other dealers use them. We have in-house service techs.
If somebody calls Mister X's Spa Repair for this type of information, he lets them know that Seven Seas spas are so much better than those junky HotSpring Spas, you'd be a fool not to buy one. Of course, he never sees a dime from a HS service call, but Seven Seas keeps food on his table.
I'm sure most service techs will shoot straight with you. Most of the guys on this board seem like genuinely good folks and I really enjoy and appreciate their input.
Terminator
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Extremely poor analogy. A spa running on high speed produces the continuas HP and not the BHP. A Vette full out (on high speed if you will) is producing maximum HP and torque when floored.
Steve
I AMAZED STEVE!!!!!!!!!!!Of all the people, with your truck and all, You I would expect to know.
Maximum HP in a gas engine is achieved only at a very specific RPM. If you look at the hp curve from running on a dynamo you'll see this.
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And what's more, most cars/trucks could only sustain their max HP for a matter of minutes, seconds in some cases.
Talk to racers about that: they pay big money to build an engine which can stay alive putting out full power for just the length of a straightaway or two.
Now Aircraft engines can put out up to 75% of max power for extended period of time - hours if need be. But most pilots pull back to 65% for better fuel efficiency and longer engine life.
Bottom line: numbers on a brochure are for marketing. HotSpring puts both the 'real' number and the 'Breakdown Torque' numbers. But what you want to do is wet test, try the jets in all the possible combinations and move all the various adjustments around. That's what matters: what's this spa going to feel like?
And it takes better engineering to offer good jet action with smaller motors than it does to simply slap on big motors.