Hot Tub Forum

Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: orlandoguy on July 11, 2005, 05:49:08 pm

Title: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: orlandoguy on July 11, 2005, 05:49:08 pm
Hi.  I am about to buy a spa and was nearly sold on the hotspring.  My price range was generous but I hate to waste money and love to research, which is why I like this site.

After visiting a jacuzzi showroom I found a model I liked and it seemed to be around 3 grand cheaper than the hotspring model which was similar.  the salesman told me jacuzzi has twice the pumps, is built better, and has a better warranty.  Being a salesman myself, i was wondering if someone here who is NOT representing a brand could tell me if they see and great differences between these two brands.  My main purpose is therapy, but also figure if it is gonna sit on my deck, it might as well look good as well.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: Chas on July 11, 2005, 06:01:27 pm
I am a sales guy, but I will chime in with this observation:

get the two warranties and compare them side by side..

Also, these are two major brand names, so you really need to do a test soak. If you like the Moto, get the HS. If you don't, look at the Jacuzzi.

I would say that you could find repairmen who might lean toward HotSpring in the quality department, but Jac. is a fine tub.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: orlandoguy on July 11, 2005, 06:08:08 pm
what is the moto?  I am assuming that is the motor?

I did a wet test and really liked the jacuzzi.  As far as the waterfalls and pop up speakers, they are cool but not that important.  They are running specials saying they are making room for the 2006 models and the jacuzzi model is just under 7 grand and it includes the stereo and waterfall and all the bells and whistles.

it seems both have 5 year warranties which complicates the decision further.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: Spatech_tuo on July 11, 2005, 06:09:15 pm
Quote
After visiting a jacuzzi showroom I found a model I liked and it seemed to be around 3 grand cheaper than the hotspring model which was similar.  the salesman told me jacuzzi has twice the pumps, is built better, and has a better warranty.


Hmmm. You've gotten quotes to show the Jacuzzi is $3k less and now the Jacuzzi salesman is telling you it has twice the pumps (BTW, its not the number of pumps but teh feel of teh jets that matter), is built better (how is he defining that) and has a better warranty (in what manner). I think there is a bit of salesmanship going on here as both are quailty makers but I think the salesman might be pouring it on a bit. What models are you looking at?
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: Lori on July 11, 2005, 06:37:17 pm
Personally, if I had bought on price, I would own a Jacuzzi J-360 right now.  Problem with that, I floated in nearly every seat in that spa!  Not to mention, the dealer went out exactly a week after I wet tested!

But, after I wet tested the HotSpring, there was no question in my mind!

Just another experience!  
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: orlandoguy on July 11, 2005, 07:00:57 pm
It seems most hotspring owners agree with you.  What exactly is THAT much better in the hotspring??
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: Chas on July 11, 2005, 07:35:59 pm
Quote
what is the moto?
The Moto Massage Jet is a wonderful jet which moves up and down your back. It is available in two forms: the single and the double. It focuses on the center three inches of the back, where all the muscles and other tissue connect to the backbone. It has been around for well over twenty years, and has a proven track record. I love it. Dont have time to put a picture here for you, so go to HotSpring.com and check out the videos and photos.
Quote
it seems both have 5 year warranties which complicates the decision further.
No, the HS has seven years on the shell AND structure. If you don't know the difference, do some research.

Also, the HS has a titanium heater with a 5 year NO FAULT warranty.

Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: cappykat on July 11, 2005, 07:48:28 pm
orlandoguy....I'm in Orlando also and looking at tubs for the first time.  We wet tested a HS Envoy and loved it but not so sure about the pressure treated bottom.

There's a lot of other dealers in Orlando, so we are going to look at all of them.  I'll be interested to know what you decide.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: Bill_Stevenson on July 12, 2005, 08:42:53 am
Well I will chime in here as I also considered both Jacuzzi and HotSpring.  Both are excellent tubs.  I am in West Palm Beach and found the prices for comparable spas to be comparable.  So you might want to make sure that the models you are comparing are similar in size and so forth.  Also, you need to wet test them and see which one feels better to you.  Which dealer are you more comfortable with?

In the end, if you are looking at comparable models, and you feel that either would work for you, then $3K is enough money to pick the Jacuzzi.  I know I would.

Regards,

Bill
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: drewstar on July 12, 2005, 08:51:51 am
I'm curious, what model Jacuzi and what model Hot Spring are you comparing?

Both brands have a very good reputation, but $3K is  a significant diffference.  


I know that Hot Springs commands a premium price not only for thier quality, but the Moto massage jets appear to be an expensive set up and be priced more for a comparable tub without this feature. Still 3 Grand difference for similliar tubs?
What tubs are you looking at?  :D
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: ebirrane on July 12, 2005, 10:58:55 am
Quote
the salesman told me jacuzzi has twice the pumps, is built better, and has a better warranty.


You have not stated the model of the jacuzzi tub he was talking about so it is difficult to verify his claims about the pumps.

I own a HS, but am not a dealer, just a hot tub geek.  While shopping and learned and lurking here and learning I would find it hard to take a poll which says jacuzzi is "built better" than a hot springs.

Here is some info which may, or may not help with your decision:

Watkin Manufacturing makes Hot Springs and Caldera and, I believe, Tiger River.  That list is "sorted" from luxury to budget tub.

Jacuzzi makes Sundance and Jacuzzi Premium tubs (I get that right?) Of the two, Sundance is seen as the more "luxury" model.

Very often you find people comparing HS and Sundance, which is, perhaps, a more equal comparison.

Some questions: What is the difference? Quality of foaming. Quality (fewer bends and elbows) of plumbing. Types of ozonator and mixing chamber. Filtration and ease of filter maintenance. warranty on materials. Feel of jets (meaning not too many jets for the pumps) plus a few hundred other nits that people either focus on or ignore: type of base, energy efficiency.  If Jacuzzi doesn't have a no fault heater I'd personally not buy it because no fault heaters seem so common these days.

Why the $3k price difference? Your jacuzzi dealer sounds competative in price (unknown for sure because you didn't say the jacuzzi tub) and the HS dealer is inflating the price.  $10k is too much for a HS tub, at least in the north east, unless you go with the spa audio feature (which is probably not the best use of $).

I would read up here for a while and take a gander at Sundance to give another option to HS.

If you wet test both tubs and really can't tell a difference and like both dealers then buy the less expensive tub.

-Ed
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: drewstar on July 12, 2005, 11:11:14 am
Quote

 
Watkin Manufacturing makes Hot Springs and Caldera and, I believe, Tiger River.  That list is "sorted" from luxury to budget tub.

Jacuzzi makes Sundance and Jacuzzi Premium tubs (I get that right?) Of the two, Sundance is seen as the more "luxury" model.
 

-Ed


Actually Walkins (owned by Masco) Watkins makes/owns:  Hot Spring, Caldera, Tiger River,  Hot Spot, and Solana.

I did  not know that  Jaccuzi had a  realtionship with  Sundance?


Please don't refer to my $7200 Tiger river caspain as "budget".  ;)  , Frugal? Yes Budget?  No  ;)
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: ebirrane on July 12, 2005, 12:16:14 pm
Quote

Please don't refer to my $7200 Tiger river caspain as "budget".  ;)  , Frugal? Yes Budget?  No  ;)


Oops! Sorry.  Yes, I meant that the Tiger River was made to be less expensive by leaving out bells and whistles that some people (rightly) do not care about.  Not budget in that it was not a quality product!  :-[

-Ed
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: drewstar on July 12, 2005, 12:18:26 pm
I was just teasin' ya.  It actually is considered, relative to many of the tubs we talk about here, as a budget.   ;)


However, compared to my old tub, this thing is a rolls royce
:D
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: JJ on July 12, 2005, 12:22:30 pm
Just as a general rule, I tend to trust people more who believe they have the best product for the money and tell you why, rather than trying to drag their competitors down.  I would recommend finding a few different tubs that you like (wet test!), then buying from the dealer you trust the most.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: Mendocino101 on July 12, 2005, 12:43:27 pm
If you are looking at comparable tubs ...there is not in normal circumstances a 3 k difference nor on comparable models does Jacuzzi have twice the pumps and in no way does it have a better warranty ..... sounds to me like you are dealing with a Jacuzzi salesmen who is hyping you on with words but they lack any merit .... Jacuzzi is a nice spa if its for you but its not better for the reasons that he stated ....
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: Lori on July 12, 2005, 06:18:35 pm
Sorry it took so long to get back!

I like my HotSpring Vanguard because I can sit in each seat without fighting to stay there!  The Jacuzzi, especially the lounge (the 360 from 2003).  With the jets on high and the air I felt like I was going to be thrown from the tub!  Not my idea of relaxing!  I could relax in the Vanguard!  I have the single moto (dual moto is brand new) but I love that seat!  It is my favorite, too!  

It's so subjective, the feel of a tub!  I have no words to describe how I feel in my tub! I could have been very happy with a Sundance Altamar or an LA Fiji.  I at least didn't float out of every seat!  I tested everything that was available to me in my area, then I narrowed down my choices to 2.  Then I wet tested back-to-back, so I would know for sure which tub was MY tub!

Good luck!
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: johnnythunders on July 12, 2005, 09:32:00 pm
wowwww a $3000 savings hummm i guess you are getting the spa for around $2000-$3000 lol
Hotspring makes a great spa and so does Jacuzzi......Jt
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: cappykat on July 17, 2005, 08:28:25 pm
We're looking at Jacuzzi also.  Haven't wet tested but will this week.  I have the brochure and it says the warranty is 10 yrs on stucture, 7 yrs on shell, 5 yrs electrical/plumbing and 5 yrs on equipment and controls.

HS is 7 on structure and shell, 5 on the rest.  As someone else said comparing HS to Jacuzzi may not be comparable.  We're looking at the J-385 got a price of $8375.  We're looking at the SD Cameo and that price is $9889.  I found another poster on this site that bought the SD Optima for $8619.  I'm leaning toward the Cameo, but the SD dealer is going to have to come down in price.

We were told from the SD dealer that SD bought out Jacuzzi, so there is a relationship there.  
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: tony on July 18, 2005, 11:11:12 am
There is a relationship.  In the late '90s, Jacuzzi bought Sundance with the agreement that Sundance would manufacture all spas for Jacuzzi, the parent company.  In the early 2000's, the older style Jacuzzi Whirlpool Bath spas ceased to be made and Sundance created Jacuzzi Premium Spas.  The Sundance high end spas have the newest engineering changes and bells and whistles.  Jacuzzi Premium and the lower end Sundance spas fall in line after that.  Thus the Cameo will be higher priced than the J385.  That being said, the 385 is a lot of spa for the money.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: Chris_H on July 18, 2005, 11:46:04 am
Quote
We're looking at Jacuzzi also.  Haven't wet tested but will this week.  I have the brochure and it says the warranty is 10 yrs on stucture, 7 yrs on shell, 5 yrs electrical/plumbing and 5 yrs on equipment and controls.

HS is 7 on structure and shell, 5 on the rest.  As someone else said comparing HS to Jacuzzi may not be comparable.  We're looking at the J-385 got a price of $8375.  We're looking at the SD Cameo and that price is $9889.  I found another poster on this site that bought the SD Optima for $8619.  I'm leaning toward the Cameo, but the SD dealer is going to have to come down in price.

We were told from the SD dealer that SD bought out Jacuzzi, so there is a relationship there.  


The Cameo price probably includes a stereo.  The J-385 price probably does not include a stereo.  That is probably where the difference is occuring.  The stereo usually runs about $1,000.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: cappykat on July 18, 2005, 12:05:27 pm
Actually, both the Cameo and the J-385 were quoted with stereo.

So if I buy the J-385 I'm basically getting a Sundance product backed by the same parent company?

So, ones as good as the other?
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: Chris_H on July 18, 2005, 12:31:06 pm
If both include the stereo, I wouldn’t be able to justify a difference of $1,300 between the two and I absolutely hate the Jacuzzi product.  The price of the Cameo with stereo is not out of line with what others have paid.  I think the Jacuzzi price is just low.  One thing you should know the warranty on the stereo and jets for the Jacuzzi is different than the warranty for the Sundance.  The Jacuzzi has a 1-year warranty on those items and the Sundance has a two-year warranty.  This difference does not justify a $1,300 difference.  

If the true difference is less than $500 I would say the buy the Cameo.  Just make sure you are comparing apples to apples with accessories (ozone, coverlift’s, installation of accessories) and other optional features.

Chris
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: ebirrane on July 18, 2005, 01:00:58 pm
Quote

So, ones as good as the other?


I'm not sure how you got that from the responses above.  

I think what people were trying to politely say is:

The Sundance is considered a better engineered tub, but the Jacuzzi might be "good enough" for your needs.  A little extra $$ per month and in chems and in filters and in less jetting or pumps os some such thing may be OK if it helps you save $1k.

That's really quite different than saying one is as good as the other.  If the difference is less than $1k and it doesn't break your budget I don't know that many here would say take the jacuzzi over the sundance.

Of course, it is possible that you prefer the "hydrotherapy" on the jacuzzi to the sundance, in which case that's all that really matters!

-Ed

Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: orlandoguy on July 18, 2005, 01:24:37 pm
Hydrotherapy is precisely why I picked my j335 jacuzzi.  I wasn't looking for a huge tub and found the jets perfectly suited for my needs.  The appearance of the tub, the waterfall, the lift, the stereo and all the bells and whistles were not overly important in the beginning, but now it's on my back deck, they are very nice additions.

I mentioned the electrician sent by jacuzzi to wire the 220 told me to test a Vita Spa before accepting delivery the next day, right?  Turns out he works for them as well which seemed weird to me.  Just to satisfy my curiosity, I did just that and found the construction to be not nearly as solid in my opinion.  When he said full foam is overrated in Florida, I headed for the exit based on what I have been told.

In the end, we all have to live with our decisions, and I am real comfortable with mine.

Also, I'm sure it's no big secret, but having my chiropractor write me a prescription for the tub took off all the sales tax and also qualified me for a nice tax deduction at the end of the year.

All in all, the different seating configurations and jet options on my j335 have my back feeling better than it has in years.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: tony on July 18, 2005, 02:43:31 pm
Ed is exactly right.  With Jacuzzi Premium, you will get the same quality as Sundance but will not get their most up to date jetting, filtration, etc.  A good example is the stereo.  Both use the same ProPlaner marine unit, but the Cameo has a subwoofer where the J385 does not.  
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: johnnythunders on July 18, 2005, 11:03:12 pm
Screw the stereo why would yea want one,Buy a set of speakers if yea want music for the outside and save a few dollars.
Why are the Sundances made better the the Higher end jacuzzi?
And what about the Jets being better then the Jacuzzis?
Seems to me that both are useing mostly the same parts.And the Jacuzzi is a lot cheaper then the Sundances.
I would not worry much about the parts abd labor if something goes wrong it will happen in the 1st year.Jt
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: hymbaw on July 18, 2005, 11:45:43 pm
A Jacuzzi would fall more in line with the SD 780 Series as far as components go. You might want to check out the Bahia.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: Chris_H on July 21, 2005, 03:54:48 pm
To JT,

”Why are the Sundances made better than the Higher end jacuzzi?”

The components are different and the warranty is different.  The component difference lies in the control box (where the wires go) and the heater.  Heater is titanium on the Sundance 800 Series’ versus, I believe, stainless steel on the Jacuzzi 300 series.  The heater on the 300 Series Jacuzzi is the same heater as the heater on the 700 Series Sundance (last year’s Sweetwater Spas).  

The warranty is different on the heater on the 800 Series Sundance’s, as well.  It has an unconditional warranty.  The Jacuzzi 300 Series does not have an unconditional warranty.  The jets and stereo on the Jacuzzi 300 series has a 1- year warranty versus 2-year warranty for the Sundance 800 series.  

The Jacuzzi 300 Series and the Sundance 700 and 800 Series all have a 5-year warranty on the pumps, motors, plumbing, ect.

”And what about the Jets being better then the Jacuzzis?”

I wouldn’t say they are better, but they definitely have more versatility.  The primary jets in the Jacuzzi 300 series only shoot water in one general direction, straight or rotating.  With the exception of the Vortex Jets and the Accu-Sage seat, the Sundance Jets have the ability to oscillate in any direction and can be adjusted to shoot straight.  The jets can also be turned off and on individually.  

Not to mention that the Sundance 800 Series filter down to at least 5 microns and some of their spas filter down to 1 micron, and the Sundance also offers the air blower that the Jacuzzi does not offer.  

If you really wanted, I could go on and on and on.  
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: johnnythunders on July 21, 2005, 04:04:41 pm
Well the person said CONSTRUCTION and i feel one is not better then the other.I think the Shell is constructed very well NOT CHEAP.
The pumps are not that much of a differance in power if any.
Sundance has a tad better  warranty
I can adjust my Jets and also shut off any of the jets i am not useing also.
Sundance has a better filter.
But its not worth $1500-$3000 more then the Jacuzzi's....JT
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: Kyle on July 22, 2005, 04:25:02 pm
HS does not use a titanium heater.  Unless I'm wrong they use the Laing heater which is incolloy 825 which has a small % of titanium.  Telling customers it is Titanium is misleading.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: Kyle on July 22, 2005, 04:26:17 pm
Orlandoguy, did you only look at HS & Jacuzzi.  No one else?
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: Chas on July 22, 2005, 08:16:18 pm
Quote
HS does not use a titanium heater.  Unless I'm wrong they use the Laing heater which is incolloy 825 which has a small % of titanium.  Telling customers it is Titanium is misleading.

HS uses a Titanium heater. In fact, they have recently introduced the same heater into the Tiger River line.

Tiger River Spas used to come with a Laing Heater, which was (and is) sold as "Stainless Steel." It may have a small % of Titanium, but we do not sell it that way, nor have I ever seen it mentioned in any of the literature.

Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: mxw128 on July 23, 2005, 11:53:55 am
Quote
HS uses a Titanium heater. In fact, they have recently introduced the same heater into the Tiger River line.

Tiger River Spas used to come with a Laing Heater, which was (and is) sold as "Stainless Steel." It may have a small % of Titanium, but we do not sell it that way, nor have I ever seen it mentioned in any of the literature.



When will they start selling the Tiger River spas with the HS heater?  I just bought a HS Vanguard (this last week) and when I called Watkins to inquire about the differences between HS and TR, they still cited the heaters (among a few other things) being different. ( I was considering a Caspian)
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Hotspring
Post by: Chas on July 24, 2005, 09:41:50 am
It was in a notice sent out to dealers a couple of weeks ago - but I'm sorry, I don't remember the date that the change was to take place.

Keep in mind that as you move farther East dealers are more likely to stock spas. Because of this, they may want to sell the in-stock tubs prior to brininging in new, and so what they said may very well be true in thier store.

There certainly is nothing wrong with either heater and they are covered by the same warranty.