Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: velocity23 on June 15, 2005, 12:16:07 pm
-
Hey guys I was just wondering what the 2005 Sundance Optimas are going for? I am located in MD and the best deal I can get is about 9900.00 Plus taxes.
That includes steps, delivery, lift cover and stereo. Am I getting taken or is this a good deal. What should I expect to pay for it? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
-
With stereo it isn't a bad deal. Most dealers in my area (Philadelphia) get at least $10,000 for that spa with those options.
-
I believe that to be a very good price considering the additional extras mentioned.
-
Sundance is running a promotion and offering a free steroe with ALL series 800 spas (Optima included).
So, discount the cost of the stereo from that price...
http://sundancespas.com/
-
Sundance is running a promotion and offering a free steroe with ALL series 800 spas (Optima included).
So, discount the cost of the stereo from that price...
http://sundancespas.com/
I would suggest first determining what the price of the spa was a month ago with and without the stereo. Not everything in this life is free, especially if you are the dealer who DOES HAVE to pay for the stereo. However, I would certainly expect the price to be better than a similar purchase from a month ago.
-
I would suggest first determining what the price of the spa was a month ago with and without the stereo. Not everything in this life is free, especially if you are the dealer who DOES HAVE to pay for the stereo. However, I would certainly expect the price to be better than a similar purchase from a month ago.
I agree to check out prices without the stereo first.
However, if the Manufacturer is promoting a FREE STEREO, why yes I expect a FREE stereo. not just some numbers game.
Um. where's the topic for "Dirty dealer tricks" again?
-
I agree to check out prices without the stereo first.
However, if the Manufacturer is promoting a FREE STEREO, why yes I expect a FREE stereo. not just some numbers game.
Um. where's the topic for "Dirty dealer tricks" again?
And a FREE stereo you will get. I along with you would like to think the manufacturer would bite the bullet for this one and provide a FREE stereo, but it is a dealer supported promotion that not all dealers necessarily participate in and he "pays" the cost of the stereo that he does provide "free". It is then typical for the consumer to expect everything else he want's to be included free as well.
Everybody want's a deal or a cheaper price, and on top of that they want it all, this is a legitimate offer at dealer expense. It is "not just some numbers game" as you may infer.
I find your reference to a previous thread to be offensive and to imply something that you have no true knowledge or understanding of. I can appreciate your attempt at contributing to the consumers question, but your implications are off base.
-
And a FREE stereo you will get. I along with you would like to think the manufacturer would bite the bullet for this one and provide a FREE stereo, but it is a dealer supported promotion that not all dealers necessarily participate in and he "pays" the cost of the stereo that he does provide "free". It is then typical for the consumer to expect everything else he want's to be included free as well.
Everybody want's a deal or a cheaper price, and on top of that they want it all, this is a legitimate offer at dealer expense. It is "not just some numbers game" as you may infer.
I find your reference to a previous thread to be offensive and to imply something that you have no true knowledge or understanding of. I can appreciate your attempt at contributing to the consumers question, but your implications are off base.
Yes, as a consumer I expect a free stereo. I don't want "50% off", or "Save $200” I fully and completely expect a free stereo. If you quoted me $9000.00 on the unit without a stereo last week, I would fully expect to come in today and get the exact deal plus with the stereo. To give me the stereo for free, only to charge me $500 more for the tub, well then that is the "numbers game". What do you call it?
For you to say "not everything is free and expect to save "Some”, well that is deceptive. Don't advertise as FREE. Advertise it as a discount or a coupon off. You know, around here, the FTC and Attorney general prosecute retailers who have these so called "False Sales". Dealers doing such practices do belong in the Dirty Dealers Topic"
I find your statement of "no true knowledge of" to be demeaning to me as an adult and a consumer. Who the hell do you think your dealing with? Some 17 year old gum snapper buying a used car? What's this "Oh, retail sales are much too complicated for you to understand" attitude? Give me a break. You're selling a product. I understand margins, incentives and promotions and costs.
Retail is not rocket science.
Maybe it was difficult for you to understand, so you expect others to have a similar problemsunderstanding it?
Yes. If you advertise a FREE Stereo. I expect it.
Consumers disagree/Agree?
I modified this for spelling and grammar. Sorry. I was upset. But “false sales” are a dirty trick dealers use to get people in the store. To have someone imply I don’t understand retail, and to bend over when they exaggerate their so called "sales" gets me pissed.
-
I find your statement of "no true knoweldge of" to be demeaning to me as a an adult and a consumer. Who the hell do you think your dealing with? Some 17 year old gum snapper buying a used car? What's this "Oh, retail sales are much too complicated for you to understand" attitude? Give me a break. You're selling a product. I understand margins, incentives and promotions and costs. Retail is not rocket science. Maybe it was difficult for you to understand, so you expect others to have a similliar diffculting understanding it?
I think J_McD meant not understanding the guidelines behind Sundance's "Free Stereo" promo, not you understanding retail sales and margins. There is obviously more to it than I understand, and I can see where the customer can get wrapped up with the wrong info, whether it comes from the salesmans inproper delivery of how the promo works, or the customers lack of understanding of the details of the promo. I can see both sides of misunderstanding, and i'm sure J_McD will clear it all up.
-
i'm sure J_McD will clear it all up.
I hope so. I find many of his posts very insightful and valuable.
-
My wife gave me a bumper sticker that we have not displayed. It says; “I know there is a Hell, I work in retail.” ;D
Making customers “happy” sometimes is impossible. And, I know how you feel about advertising, as I share your feelings. You must LIE to the consuming public to attract their attention in an ad and get them into your store. SO, I don’t advertise. My trade comes mostly by word of mouth from our customers who don’t lie about how we do business or how we treat them.
To advertise you must make outlandish claims that are not truthful like “mini blinds 70% off” for 30 years now, “double your savings”, “Sale ends Sunday”, “Never before…”, “lowest prices ever”, “first 50 sales…”, “Cash back rebates”, the list is endless. Well, today a FREE Stereo in my store is a FREE stereo because I pay for it.
Last month if you where in, along with the spa you got a Free CD ozonator, Free Delivery, Free Chemicals, Free entry Steps, and a Free Cover Lifter, the stereo was $995 and you don’t really need it a $79 boom box would be better. Well guess what, we sell more stereos than we thought we did.
Now, if you come in, the price is the SAME, and it comes with Free CD ozonator, Free delivery, Free chemicals, and a FREE STEREO, but if you want the cover lifter and the step that will be $300. That is when you will tell me that everything was included “last week” so I want it all plus the Free Stereo. Some people are just never happy, in short they are pigs, they want everything FREE.
This example represents $400 to $500 better value than the previous sale and when it ends it ends. But the cynical customer, there are a few, thinks you are still cheating him out of something that he is somehow entitled to.
In you own words, you said, “I would fully expect to come in today and get the exact deal plus with the stereo. To give me the stereo for free, only to charge me $500 more for the tub, well then that is the "numbers game". What do you call it?”
What was FREE last week, you did not want, what is Free this week you want but you want what was Free last week too. This I am sure you would call a numbers game, but I would call it a $400 to $500 loss to get your business, and you think I am cheating you. Well, I guess consumers are like that, they don’t trust the retailer, like the consumer always tells the truth. Why has our society become so untrusting and cynical that some people think we all have to lie to each other?
You said, “the FTC and Attorney general prosecute retailers who have these so called "False Sales". Dealers doing such practices do belong in the Dirty Dealers Topic"
This is true only when it affects 10’s of thousands of people. The Attorney General of Missouri just closed down such a practice that has been used in this industry, “The Consumers Trust” with over $167,000,000 in consumer rebate claims promised to consumers after collecting $24,000,000 in dealer fees, and siphoning off over $14,000,000 off shore. The AG could only attach $10,000,000 of assets to offset such claims.
Guess what, there are a lot of losers out there and they are all consumers. I know how you feel. Why do you think we are all out to cheat you? I am impeccably honest, (please excuse the self ingratiating comment) go through my threads and locate just one conflict of the truth. Opinionated, yes, dishonest, never, (well, I once told a solicitor on the phone that I was the janitor).
I know how you feel and I know why you do feel that way. You have been cheated before and now you believe everybody is out to cheat you. We are not, but some are.
You said, “I find your statement of "no true knowledge of" to be demeaning to me as an adult and a consumer. Who the hell do you think your dealing with?..........you're selling a product. I understand margins, incentives and promotions and costs.”
I seriously do question your understanding, by all the indications you don’t. Why should you find it demeaning, until you have walked in my shoes, do not judge me? Your words are filled with anger and resentment and you direct them to me, yet you don’t know me. This is not a FALSE SALE as you claim. You are making a false statement to be read by others, that’s wrong.
You said, “Sorry. I was upset. But “false sales” are a dirty trick dealers use to get people in the store. To have someone imply I don’t understand retail, and to bend over when they exaggerate their so called "sales" gets me pissed.”
And rightly so, don’t bend over. But you have no factual knowledge to substantiate your claim of a “false sale”, but your anger is real. I mean you no harm, and I am honest in every way I can be. I learned as a child, you never had to remember the truth. Think about that.
-
Bought my 2005 Optima this last march, live in SE Virginia.
Tub, CD ozone, cover, spa care kit, EZ lift, wood steps, 2 extra exterior lights, drink holder, one pleated (washable) filter, delivery/orientation, (no stereo):
$7891 before taxes. Since the lift has been backordered, I'm getting refunded $199 from that. Hope this helps.
BTW, regarding the issue that J. McD brings up above, many of the items I listed were "free" as per the invoice. But the dealer didn’t list the cover lifter as one of them, so I was able to request a refund.
The dealer had 10 weeks to receive a lifter after my down payment, then stated I had to wait another 2-3 weeks for delivering of the part, which would of (in my case) prevented the tub from being set, electrically hooked up and filled). Yes, retail is hell, but so is any other business that isn't ran properly.
-
J. McD-
Very nicely explained.
Brewman
-
Oh boy.
J-McD. There are legitimate sales from the manufacturer that do allow dealers to pass savings directly to the consumer. There are many reasons why and how the manufacturer and/or Stereo OEM would do this.
In this particular instance, that's not happening and you freely admit that you're padding the margins in one area to give the illusion of savings in another. Because…get ready THERE IS NO SALE. This is deceptive. It's not a true sale. Yes, it happens a lot and is not unique to the Spa industry. Still, that doesn't make it right. It's an old trick.
It's the Illusion of savings that you wink and smile about, as opposed to a real charge back to the manufacturer where you could give me the deal on the tub you quoted last week and toss the stereo in. You win, I win.
Great Quotes:
"You must LIE to the consuming public to attract their attention"
"To advertise you must make outlandish claims that are not truthful"
"Guess what, there are a lot of losers out there and they are all consumers"
"I seriously do question your understanding, by all the indications you don’t. Why should you find it demeaning, until you have walked in my shoes, do not judge me? "
WOW. :o
-
To further expound on this sensitive subject of "what is a sale?" I understand what you’re are saying .You wrap different packages and options together and announce it a “Sale!” to garner interest and get customers in. You try to set yourself apart from the rest.
It's done all the time. But it is not a true sale. It's the flavor combo du-jour. For the most part, your bottom line price hasn't t really changed and truth be told, this “sale" isn't significantly different than any other deal I could have pounded out with you 2 months ago.
It's this type of "Sale" that many consumers of are frankly, weary off and get very frustrated by.
When Sundance promotes on its web site Free Stereos, it gives certain legitimacy to the sale that the manufacturer is providing a true savings; (see my previous reply on my definition of a “true sale”) it’s frustrating for the consumer to go in and find out that nope, it’s just the package of the moment.
From the consumer’s end of it, it's just the tricks the retailers use to get you in there.
What is frustrating is we are talking a lot of money here and there are no standard, advertised prices and options and every spa dealer has got some “Sale!” arrrgh.
Maybe Saturn will start selling tubs?
;)
-
Well Drewstar, I respect your comments and your opinions. I even appreciate your thought provoking approaches. But I will tell you this and you are not required to to believe me, my company makes less $'s and the customer gets more product, at a higher cost of goods sold, and he pays the same, thus the customer benefits.
At this point, I don't care how you see it, or your point of view, nothing personal, but you will probably never be influenced by me, because it is YOUR OPINION and your perspective, I am the retailer and through your eyes that makes me evil.
You say, "THERE IS NO SALE. This is deceptive. It's not a true sale. Yes, it happens a lot and is not unique to the Spa industry. Still, that doesn't make it right. It's an old trick."
It is not a trick, it is marketing and there is not one product being sold to consumers that does not attempt to attract the consumers attention with "claims", this is marketing.
If I make less $'s on a sale today because I include more in the "cost of goods" I would consider that to be a financial benefit to my consumer. The sellers purpose is to sell more units and profit on the increased number of unit sales. Unknowingly, you succumb to this marketing ploy every day for everything you spend money on.
You too are subject to marketing influence. And, IMHO, more likely to buy from a liar than an honest man. They seem to know better on how to color the truth. An honest person is an honest person, and as one, I have watched many fools walk out the door to be sucked in on rebates and other lies.
It is not my intent to prove you right or wrong, only to say, If I get fewer $'s and the consumer gets more material product for his $'s, no matter how you look at it, somehow you see me as not being honest with my customer and actually cheating him out of something.
You say, "Great Quotes:" then you quote my words for what purpose I am not sure. They are my points of view and the reason we do not advertise. But I know you are right, because I have witnessed those that do what I say in these quotes, they outsell me 6 to 1. So does that mean that advertising works or that the shopping consumer is gullible? ??? Are you angy with me for this? ???
"You must LIE to the consuming public to attract their attention"
"To advertise you must make outlandish claims that are not truthful"
"Guess what, there are a lot of losers out there and they are all consumers"
"I seriously do question your understanding, by all the indications you don’t. Why should you find it demeaning, until you have walked in my shoes, do not judge me? "
Drew, I really believe you are a nice person intending to goad me. I will accept the fact that we have a differing view and neither of us is a bad person for what we do. I do my best every day to do the right thing, and deep inside, I believe you do to.
You are just testing my integrity and challenging me with your perceptions and beliefs. You know in you own mind that you have never been right 100% of the time. I think this is one of those times that maybe, just maybe, there is a good person out there that represents a different point of view, who's ulterior motive is not to cheat you or others. Just Maybe.
-
No. I am not goading you. I'm trying as a consumer to share the experiences in a common forum.
Please don't use the words "Evil" and "Liar" You seem to think I am attacking you and to be honest I amnot.
Perhaps I am a bit defensive because in other posts, you've claimed I was an Artic Salesman, and in another you mocked my opion of my experience. Huh. What's up with that? At least it's good that there is this forum where we can both speak our minds. At the end of the Day J_McD it's just a forum.
;)
Do you see my point about a Manufactuers deal versus you in-store deal? Do you disagree? Yea, every dealer has the same "Sale" it's really not a sale in the eyes of the consumer.
I get from you that anything that you sell below MSRP is "a sale". Well, ok I guess youre right. But you missed my point.
I posted those quotes because I was dumbfounded by them. Are thier good dealers and bad? Of course, but you seem to have some pretty strong opinions that makes me really wonder.. Yout think alll advertising are lies?? You think you need to mislead the customer? You really think all losers are consumers?
You think I am more likely to buy from a liar than an honest man? Well, I'm pretty sure of my own self and who I do business with, and sir, I wouldn't deal with anyone who called thier customers "Pigs"
-
J Mcd please read YOUR posts carefully and think about what you have stated. I think you will maybe, Just maybe wish to reconsider your opinion on customers. Maybe ,Just Maybe your customers are what you have written they are. I find that hard to belive. Most customers are honest like most dealers are honest, a few make a bad name for everyone. Read YOUR posts carefully!!
-
Drewster, I believe you have taken me out of context; I have never referred to my customer as such. I said, “Some people are just never happy, in short they are pigs, they want everything FREE.” I have never had people like this as a customer.
Jismo, I do not believe I have referred to my customers at all, but I have referenced “people” which encompasses all of humanity, a broad reference, and maybe even shoppers but not customers. I am not always right, and God knows if I am wrong I should be corrected. That is what we are all here for. ;)
If I appear angry and use harsh terms in my perspective, I am sorry, I have been jaded by my experiences, as all of us have maybe in different ways. I, like many others who remain silent, have witnessed many consumers convinced into believing what was too good to be true. They indeed were gullible. One such person explained to me why he did not choose to select my product. It was because the one he did choose, included a $10,000 cash rebate that he would receive in 3 years making his purchase a net cost of $10,000 less. I knew this not to be true. I am sorry to say, everyone saw him as a person that had been fooled into believing it was true, in spite of what he was told.
If my harsh point of view, disturbs you or upsets you, but caution others in their shopping experiences, than I have achieved my purpose for their benefit. If I offend all of you, then I am sorry for expressing my point of view. It is not my intent to offend but to share my point of view, be that good, bad, or indifferent.
-
What is frustrating is we are talking a lot of money here and there are no standard, advertised prices and options and every spa dealer has got some “Sale!” arrrgh.
Maybe Saturn will start selling tubs?
;)
I think what was trying to be said is this ....First when Sundance is promoting the "free Stereo" it is someone in the company's marketing dept who comes up with this great idea ...what basically happens in the Spa industry is that the cost is passed on to the dealer, the justification being that they ( Sundance in this case) will drive more customers to your store while they promote the program but you as dealer still pay the cost of the stereo, if you were in the store last week....last month or yesterday and the price changed but now includes the Stereo but maybe not the lift or delivery or steps etc. ...well than that promotion ended just like they do in many retail shopping experiences ...you mention cars a whole other world from Spas....Do you know that when a rebate ends on say today at midnight and you come in want it tomorrow at 8 am when they open ....You won't get it ...unless they back date the sale to reflect todays date....do you know why ?....in cars you have a report of sale filed that goes to the state ...for all sorts of reasons ....but the point is when its over its over and by the way the Saturn and its sales process that many are so enamored with is FULL RETAIL and nothing more go to any dealer in any state and the window sticker on the car on say a Ford lot for example is FULL RETAIL which for some great marketing reason Saturn customers feel great about paying but would never do so for another brand....Good luck in your Shopping.... :D
-
Please pass the stick. I think the horse is still breathing.
Dear Velocity 23
I hope this has been helpful for you in your search for “is this a good price for an Optima Hot Tub?”
As you can see, in a market where MRSPs have no reflection on actual selling prices, and determining actual average fair prices becomes an exercise in futility, you’re not going to get a straight answer.
You see, as J-McD has clearly pointed out, sadly “There is no Free Stereo”. I know, I know, you try to determine what a fair price is, but what was on sale last week, isn’t on sale this week. And deals like a “free stereo” simply means you’ll be paying extra for your cover lifter, but just wait until next week, the dealer will be having a sale on the cover lifter and a free stereo. Unfortunately the hot tub itself has gone up in price.
Don’t try to make sense of it all. Silly, silly Hot Tub buyer. You see you don’t understand the (cough) “Nuances” (cough, cough) of the industry.
Don’t try to distinguish actual “sales” where the cost is actually removed from the fair selling price, as opposed to “SALE!” where the dealer has simply re-structured the package to give the illusion of a deal. If you do, you will politely informed that you have no knowledge of “retail”. Foolish consumer.
Be leery in your quest for a hot tub, as unlike other markets, because in hot tub workd “You must LIE to the consuming public to attract their attention in an ad and get them into your store.” And “To advertise you must make outlandish claims that are not truthful”
Sigh.
Be careful, as you try to wade through the promotions and sales in an attempt to try and actually guessthe real price, and attempt to get the best deal for your hard earned dollar, because some dealers will refer to you as a “Pig”.
How dare you ask for more than what was offered.
This forum may help you. Why thanks to advice in here, I’ve learned that I have an irrational fear of salesmen. I’ve been diagnosed as seeing all salesmen as evil and as liars. Thankfully, I’ve started an aggressive physco-therapy program. Why just last night between shock therapy treatments, I had a breakthrough; it seems that when my mother was pregnant with me, she was frightened by a Hot Tub salesman trying to explain Therma-pane vs. Full Foam.
I have a long road to recovery. But with the help of this forum, I may one day lead a semi normal life.
So, Good luck Veocity23! Perhaps a dealer here will actually post their best price for the deal you are looking for…..but don’t hold your breath.
Regards,
Drewstar
-
Please pass the stick. I think the horse is still breathing.
Dear Velocity 23
As you can see, in a market where MRSPs have no reflection on actual selling prices, and determining actual average fair prices becomes an exercise in futility, you’re not going to get a straight answer.
You see, as J-McD has clearly pointed out, sadly “There is no Free Stereo”. I know, I know, you try to determine what a fair price is, but what was on sale last week, isn’t on sale this week. And deals like a “free stereo” simply means you’ll be paying extra for your cover lifter, but just wait until next week, the dealer will be having a sale on the cover lifter and a free stereo. Unfortunately the hot tub itself has gone up in price.
Regards,
Drewstar
Drewstar,
Can you please help me me out here....But have you ever actually bought anything on Sale where the sale price had an end date...As an example say at Best Buy where they advertise something and than the ad says Sale Ends on 00/00/000 and Than in Sundays paper a new flier comes out and there is another sale ..I am confused as to why you think this is some how wrong for someone selling spas to have an end date to a sale and start something new...If what I understand what you wrote correctly what you are saying is that you want to combine a sale from last week and add to the promotion that is running this week ...So lets say where as example and this seems some what common ...with a computer they may run a free monitor one week and the next its printer but if I read you correctly you want to tell them since you had the monitor last week and its a printer this week you want them both .... Can I also ask what you mean and what is your reference is to the ...
" Please pass the stick. I think the horse is still breathing. "
Perhaps I am wrong but I got the feeling that it was in reference to what I might have wrote and if so.....Why...
-
Good question Mendo. I was thinking the same thing. I guess in the spa business sales don't end.
-
play nice now...
this thread is starting to sound like a good candidate for the childish bickering catagory.
as the the original question, was the price good?
(BTW nothing on the entire 2nd page seems to actually address this question)
i am just a consumer who shopped and bought a tub recently. my opinion is that most high quality tubs run $7500 to $11000.
your price is in that range. if it was $500 more or less, would it make that big of a difference?
the real question is, is it worth the price to YOU and YOU ONLY!
if it is, and you really love the spa, more than other models, buy it. youll have it years and i hope you get a lot of use and happiness out of it
i personally would not buy a stereo in any spa. they are by no means bad, it is a totally personal preference. i bought a caldera for $8100 without the stereo, because i can (and did) install outdoor speakers connected to my sound system in the house. i work in the alarm /home automation industry, so i have that skill, and access to lots of "parts". you may not.
buy what you want, and what makes you happy. try not to 2nd guess yourself, climb in your tub, and think ahhhhhhhh....
-
Drewstar,
Can you please help me me out here....But have you ever actually bought anything on Sale where the sale price had an end date...As an example say at Best Buy where they advertise something and than the ad says Sale Ends on 00/00/000 and Than in Sundays paper a new flier comes out and there is another sale ..I am confused as to why you think this is some how wrong for someone selling spas to have an end date to a sale and start something new...If what I understand what you wrote correctly what you are saying is that you want to combine a sale from last week and add to the promotion that is running this week ...So lets say where as example and this seems some what common ...with a computer they may run a free monitor one week and the next its printer but if I read you correctly you want to tell them since you had the monitor last week and its a printer this week you want them both .... Can I also ask what you mean and what is your reference is to the ...
" Please pass the stick. I think the horse is still breathing. "
Perhaps I am wrong but I got the feeling that it was in reference to what I might have wrote and if so.....Why...
Yup. You are wrong. It wasn’t in reference to you, or anyone else here.
I was using the beating a dead horse with a stick metaphor as I wonder if this discussion is just an exercise in futility or if we are actually seeing each other’s point? I hope that I didn’t offend you and I wonder why you felt it was directed at you?
Re-read my comments. The point here was about pricing from within a dealers cost and pricing with the manufacturer absorbing the cost. Do you see a difference? Do you see my point there?
Can you see how one can represent a greater value to the consumer while the dealer still makes his margin?
Do you see a difference in the above as opposed to the dealer bundling certain deals together? Yes there is money to be saved, and some deals are better than others. But for the most part, the dealers cost structure hasn’t changed and in reality, on any given day given this structure, you can get a comparable deal and package? (We’re talking hot tubs here, not Big Box).
As a consumer, don’t you think you should be aware of this, so that you know what the real deal is? Like J-McD said, there’s no free stereo. (Unless the manufacture burdens thee cost) But otherwise either you or he is going to pay for it, one way or the other. Guess who that’s going to be? But that's ok. The issue here is the frustration I as a consumer feels, as there is no standardized pricing.
The dealer sales environment is heavily skewed in the dealers favor for pricing, much more so than other consumer markets. It can be a frustrating and confusing process for the consumer.
Sure, if all the dealers published their sales and promos on a national level just like a national chain, I think that would be a great start.
-
Hey guys I was just wondering what the 2005 Sundance Optimas are going for? I am located in MD and the best deal I can get is about 9900.00 Plus taxes.
That includes steps, delivery, lift cover and stereo. Am I getting taken or is this a good deal. What should I expect to pay for it? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
To retro back to the original question: The Sundance dealer at our most recent homeshow was selling the Optima inc/steps, cd ozone, coverlifter, chems, delivery for $ 8900.00. So if your price includes the stereo, seems comparable. ;)
-
To retro back to the original question: The Sundance dealer at our most recent homeshow was selling the Optima inc/steps, cd ozone, coverlifter, chems, delivery for $ 8900.00. So if your price includes the stereo, seems comparable. ;)
$1000 difference. The reason? The Steroe.
The frustration? Sundance is promoting free steroes.
The reality? No Free Steroe.
Hence this really isn't IMHO any real "sale".
-
this is a small quote from mendicino(to save space):this is in no way any sort of attack, merely my opinion. no offense is intended
"As a consumer, don’t you think you should be aware of this, so that you know what the real deal is? Like J-McD said, there’s no free stereo. (Unless the manufacture burdens thee cost) But otherwise either you or he is going to pay for it, one way or the other. Guess who that’s going to be? But that's ok. The issue here is the frustration I as a consumer feels, as there is no standardized pricing."
this really belongs in another thread but heres my 2 cents...
whether you are buying furniture, jewelry, tires, hot tubs, cars, or any other large purchase, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE VARIANCES IN PRICE! thats capitalism at its best.......
due largely to where you live, the size/ selling volume of the retailer, overhead/operation costs, etc.
have you ever paid the MSRP for a couch, a gold necklace, a stereo, or a car???
its your money. buy what you want, where you want.
theres a huge furniture store in my area. i choose not to shop there. they have the sale to end all sales every other friday. if the trend holds up by next year they should be paying me to take furniture off their hands ;D ;D ;D
everyone knows its BS, but you know what? the buy a @#$% load of furniture, and get better terms than a smaller store, so they CAN sell for less and still make money, plus with the volume they can run on a smaller margin.
does that mean the smaller single store who quotes you a "best price" that is still $100 more for the same couch you can get at the mega store, is dishonest and trying to screw you? no......
if store 1 tells you brand x spa has an MSRP of $15000, but today is on sale for $11000, and store 2 says we normally sell the very same spa (not some abstract MSRP) for $10000 but today we throw in chemicals and steps for the $10000, whats the better deal??
i didn't know the pricing structure of spas, so i went to several stores, looked up dealers on websites, and looked for sites like this one. when i found this site, i was all ready to order a spa from an online source, just like i bought my last vehicle(saved over $6k real money). after reading here, weighed pros and cons, and instead spent $8k on my tub (local caldera dealer) instead of $6800 for on line tub(made by co i never heard of). looked the same on paper, pumps, jets, etc.
chevy dealer anywhere will fix my van. tubs are different, so i spent the extra $1300 for my own peace of mind. that was my choice. i dont feel like was taken, inor was it the deal of the century. think it was a fair price.
i dont feel any industry owes me a list of standard prices. if i want/need a product, i will shop different makers for quality and price, and in the end , do i want to pay what the merchant is asking for that product? if its worth it to me i do. if not i dont. very simple.
-
You are so wise obi wan.
-
lil' ole me?????
now i have to keep up the wisdom! such pressure!
um.... live long and prosper?
wait ... i've got it..... shazbot!
nanu-nanu grasshopper ??
-
i dont feel any industry owes me a list of standard prices. if i want/need a product, i will shop different makers for quality and price, and in the end , do i want to pay what the merchant is asking for that product? if its worth it to me i do. if not i dont. very simple.
You are so wise obi wan.
So says the Hot tub dealer. ;)
-
let me expound a bit on my buy it or dont philosophy....
i am not made of money and value what i have. when i wrote shop around to different makers, i mean REALLY SHOP. i have been accused of borderline anal frugality. i think of myself as ......very patient. there are many things i would like to have.... once i feel comfy that i have a good idea of what something should cost, i do buy it. BUT, it may be 6 months later, sometimes a year. depends on how expensive it is, and my opinion as to will it be cheaper later, and is it worth the wait? in the case of my spa, i pulled the old one off the deck, in november, to refurbish and move, as we did big back yard make over.
decided it wasnt worth repairing, and scrapped it. didnt see the prices getting cheaper if i waited till the summer, so i shopped and bought fairly quickly(for me) could i have pd less? maybe...could i have pd more? definitely.....bought it, havent looked back. between the wife and 4 kids, it gets used 1-2 hours a day, 7 days a week.(occasionally more)no problems, other than stepping up chem usage. book says average use is 1/2 hour a day 3-4 days a week. i think i am off the usage chart past extra heavy, ;D ;D but it is so worth it!
-
Velocity asks if $9900 is a good deal for the tub, stairs cover lifter and a Stereo.
Dealer 1 tells them "Seems to be a fair price. That sells that for $10,000.00
Dealer 2 claims it seems like good deal considering all the "extras"
I question the validity of the "bargain" given that the manufacturer is promoting "Free Stereos". We then quickly degrade into pricing discussions and how frustrating they are and what really is a sale. Sometimes it gets a bit nasty.
Meanwhile Consumer A reports buying the same tub without the stereo purchased for $ 7891 (no stereo.)
Consumer B chimes in with an advertised price of 8900 (no stereo).
Tell me how these numbers stack up against Velocity's price? No so good. Seems she may be paying anywhere for 1000.00 to 2000.00 for this stereo.
Why is this again a good deal?
???
-
I'll throw in a semi-apple/oranges comparison to see if clears the muddy waters or not.
Someone a few weeks ago had posted a $10,500 price for a SD Max with all the usual stuff and the stereo; this was in NC, I believe. Perhaps SC?
The original discussion above for the Optima was in MD, metro DC, I believe.
Should we see a lot of difference geographically? That is, SE VA, vs. Washington DC metro is a bit of a different market... is that a few hundred $$ difference for a spa at the $9000-$10,000 price point or a lot more? Should that Max with the strero be $10,500 or $11,000 or $11,500 in metro DC? (Forget the 'free stereo' "deal".)
I don't care about 'sales' or 'free stereos', I just want to have both myself and the dealer get a good deal! (When I call for service, I don't want him to think, here's the dude that gypped him out of the last $100. :) ). Of course, I don't want to think the opposite, either!)
So, within regions like the eastern mid-atlantic, do/should prices vary more than a few hundred out of, say, $10,000?
Thanks!
-
Velocity asks if $9900 is a good deal for the tub, stairs cover lifter and a Stereo.
Dealer 1 tells them "Seems to be a fair price. We sell that for $10,000.00
Dealer 2 claims it seems like good deal considering all the "extras"
I question the validity of the "bargain" given that the manufacturer is promoting "Free Stereos". We then quickly degrade into pricing discussions and how frustrating they are and what really is a sale. Sometimes it gets a bit nasty.
Meanwhile Consumer A reports buying the same tub without the stereo purchased for $ 7891 (no stereo.)
Consumer B chimes in with an advertised price of 8900 (no stereo).
Tell me how these numbers stack up against Velocity's price? No so good. Seems she may be paying anywhere for 1000.00 to 2000.00 for this stereo.
Why is this again a good deal?
???
Just a stab, but maybe the dealer in SE VA has a 1,500 sq ft store front with one employee, and the store front in MD has 15,000 sq ft with 30 employees. Overhead determines margins. That "could" have something to do with the price difference. Maybe the store in VA has 5 other SD dealers within 100 miles of each other and the one in MD is the only SD dealer within 300 miles. That "could" have something to do with the pricing. Only game in town = higher prices. There is a hundred reasons why the prices may vary: Economic market, population, climate etc...
;)
PS: I was labled as Consumer B, when actually I would be dealer 3, I just don't carry the SD product. ;)
-
from what i have read here and the shopping i did, the stereo options ran from $1200 to almost $2000. average 1500, add to $7800 is $9300. add to $8900 is $10,400.
her quote of $9900 is right in the middle. not a deal, but not being gouged either....
anyone know what the official price for the stereo option is?
if the dealer is using the free stereo promotion then its not a good deal. velocity23 ought to keep shopping and look at others to get a better sense of comfort and price......
capitalism is why the price varies(see my above rant....errr post)
all the above, overhead, competion, size/ volume of the dealer. price can and will vary quite a bit. that is not inherently bad, its simple buisness.....i pd $8100 for my caldera 3 months ago. i saw a post where some in sc got the same model with stereo for $8600. here in va with stereo was $9300. i dont live in sc, and im not hauling a spa 300+ miles to save $.plus no local service. thats just life. 8100 for the size, features, and reputation is a fair price in my market. markets vary.
-
Huh. I thought the normal price for the SD 800 stereo was $1000 and there was only one option. Do you mean there are other options? $2000?! Ferget it. I think I will get a boombox. ;D
-
Huh. I thought the normal price for the SD 800 stereo was $1000 and there was only one option. Do you mean there are other options? $2000?! Ferget it. I think I will get a boombox. ;D
Leesweet, I wired a pair of Bose 251 environemntal speakersoutside my house. (The sound quality is stunning) for about $400. I can enjoy music in or out of the tub.
However, if you have neighbors or young kids outdoor speakers playing "margaritiville" at midnight er maynot be appreciated by everyone 8)
-
Just a stab, but maybe the dealer in SE VA has a 1,500 sq ft store front with one employee, and the store front in MD has 15,000 sq ft with 30 employees.
You may be close to the facts there. IMO, the SE Va. dealer is a "mom and pop" operation, (though they do have two locations) which is a spin-off of a local pool company. As per the owner, his brother owns the pool company. The wife is on the sales floor and doing orientations, and the husband, along with another employee delivered my spa. He probably does the service work too, and I would guess that they borrow employees from their brother when they get into a pinch.
I imagine some dealers that frequent here started out the same way, nothing wrong with that.
And of course, even though the real estate market around here has exploded, there still is a major difference in cost/standards of living between the Tidewater and DC areas. "What the market will bear" right?
-
I think the price you received is fair. I sell the Optima with same equipment for $9995.00. As for the free stereo feature on the Sundance website, we dealers really need to step up and challenge Sundance for some stereo discounts. These so called free stereo units are a huge hit to the dealer. Sundance takes zero hit on the price. They expect all of the dealers to drop their drawers to get another sale for Sundance.
I'm sorry for being so negative about their approach to giving away my margains, but they need to understand that WE are the dealer, trying to survive with absolutely no financial backing on this promotion.
hottubber...
-
This forum has taught me so much...from which spas to look at, chemicals and how to use them and because folks are kind enough to divulge how much they paid for the their spa, it has helped me to get a general idea of what I should pay.
3 weeks ago we ordered our Optima w/stereo and I walked out of the store feeling like I got a good deal on my package. Now I read that Sundance is giving away stereos. I think, can this really be true? Did I pay for a stereo, when maybe I should'nt have? So I thought about it and realized if I had gotten a "free" stereo, I most likely would not have received my "free" ozonator, cover w/lifter, delivery, 6 ft wood steps and chemicals.
But, then I said well maybe not, maybe it is free. So I called my dealer today to see what she thought and was informed that my local sundance store was not participating in this "free' stereo offer. The salesperson also told me that those dealers that are participating have most likely raised the price of the spa to cover the cost of the "free" stereo.
Right now, the current price of an Optima w/stereo in my area is about $9,000 and $7,995 without. I paid $8,619 w/stereo and other extras.
I do think that price varies depending on where you live in the good ol' USA. Here in Northern Calif, we're not to far from the factory.
So, what I guess I'm trying to say, is that there really is no "free stereo", it is probably the package of the week and to watch out to make sure the price is not inflated to cover the cost of the stereo.
Hope this helps you Velocity.
-
Good point on the size/overhead of the smaller dealer. Anyhoo, no matter what, I'd rather not nickel/dime the dealer to get a 'better' deal when I know I want him to jump through hoops in January down the road (perhaps) when I might have a catastrophe. ;D
Last thing I need is to make the dealer eat the cost of the stereo because SD Marketing thinks it's a 'good' idea to increase traffic in the showrooms. I was *leaning* toward one only because of the remote control and the 'underwater' woofer (I think it's a woofer; transducer, anyway, right?
I think if I do decide on getting the stereo (if I ever get a dealer in Northern Virginia this year, darn it...), that I'll say I'll pay the normal price on it and take the usual stuff free. I don't want any dealer hard feelings because of a stupid MBA Marketing type at the factory. (And, I'm allowed to say that about MBAs, too, because I happen to have a moldy one of *those* also! ;D )
Fair is fair.
-
As dealers we all need your business to stay in business, 95% of us are honest and reputable and we make dilligent efforts to take care of all our customers in their time of need. We are what supports the backbone this country and makes our economy work, We are "small business's".
You on the other hand, the consumer, happen to be what makes the system work with your disposable income. Although me may call it disposable, that is not what we do with it. We shop with due dilligence to find the best value in exchange for our money. To some that may mean a lower price, others may consider it a balance in what you get, what you want and what you pay.
Regardless of how we individually make our purchase decisions, not everything can be measured by dollars and cents. There have been countless other threads that have dealt with this issue.
If you as the consumer are not pleased with what "marketing" does to bring you in, don't come in. If you are interested to investigate, please come in, we do need your business. If when you arrive, and based on your evaluation, IF it is not a good deal to you, turn around and go out the way you came in. This is not where you want to be.
God, knows, there are different strokes for different folks. It has been said that "all" dealers or spas should have "window stickers" like cars so you would know the "REAL" price. Well that borders on organized pricing, the FTC and the anti trust laws, and you really can't organize a whole bunch of small business's and do that.
We dealers do understand your frustration and the point's of view referenced here on this forum. We are not in business to cheat you, but to support our families and the families of our employees, while exchanging a product of value in exchange for for economic support to stay in business. We all represent reputable manufacturers that have a product that has value to the consumer.
If some are in pursuit of the cheapest price, God bless you, look for it, seek it out. If some of you are in pursuit of the best value for your money, God bless you and shop until you drop take notes, collect information, research the hell out of it and make your decision and live with it. The rest of you should look for a good dealer, get your vibes on whether he has a good reputable product and check out his credentials, ask for some of his customers to contact.
In the Long of it, and in the Short of it, BUY A HOT TUB, support our families, support small business in America, oops sorry JK, Steve, and others, make that North America. Get it delivered and lay back and RELAX.
The WORST thing that could happen is that you could pay a little more or a little less than the other guy. It happens every day. We all agree, nobody wants to be taken advantage of. if the difference is averaged over the life of the Hot Tub, it really makes this a Petty issue.
-
I'm note sure if it's a "petty issue". In this thread alone we've seen the price for the same tub vary by several thousdands of dollars.
It's not about "nikel and dimming" the dealer either.
It's about being a wise shopper and getting a fair deal. As I mentioned earlier, the current pricing structure is much more heavely skewed in the dealers favor than the consumer, more so than in other markets.
The fact the people come in here and ask "is this a fair price?" illustrates peoples confusion and frustration.
"price fixing" good lord. J-McD that's most ridicolous statment you've made here. Yes Price fixing is illegal, but that's not even remotely what we are discussing, in fact almost the complete opposite.
-
You need to really think about the term "fair price". To me a fair price is one that keeps a good dealer in business and is reasonable to the consumer. Notice I said reasonable, not the lowest price you have ever seen posted on this forum. The confidence you have in that dealer to service your spa when you have a major problem in the middle of the winter or knowing you can call anytime with a problem makes that reassurance as valuable as a good price.
When I started shopping I was all about the lowest price but now that is only one factor,quality of the product and quality of the dealer are just as important. Listen to people who bought four or five years ago alot of them can't even remember what they paid for their spa. If you find the brand you want and the dealer you like and a reasonable price buy it. Buying a spa is never going to be like buying a car or appliances. Break that extra money you may pay down over 10- 15 yrs and it's not much to pay for peace of mind. I would much rather deal with someone like J.McD who has been in business for 21 yrs. and is totally commited to customer service then some fly by night dealer who may save me a thousand dollars on the initial purchase.
-
Drewster,
Just out of curiousity, in your "opinion" How would you like to see the pricing structured on hot tubs? And How would you say it is different than most other products we all can purchase today?
-
It's about being a wise shopper and getting a fair deal. As I mentioned earlier, the current pricing structure is much more heavely skewed in the dealers favor than the consumer, more so than in other markets.
Can you please explain exactly why and how you feel this way.... As a dealer I have no idea as what you mean...I know something I really like are nice watches ( haven't bought one since I opened the store)....but prior to that, no place I could find would discount a Rolex ..I happen to prefer Breitling ...Regardless not a whole lot of retail discounters for them....Same kind of a thing with Tommy Bahama clothes I love their stuff but can't find any "deals" so If I want a shirt, its going to be at least a 100 bucks....I am at a loss to understand why so many feel that spas are some dark and evil place for dealers to sit and lay in wait for unsuspecting .... unknowing people to walk in and attack .....I have said this many times before but from the dealers I have met.....THe vast majority are simply small business people who took a chance to open something in the community they live in ....Most really do seem to want to provide service to their customers and at a fair price .... So many items we all purchase vary greatly in price...Furniture......house wares....FLOORING now thats something that effects a thousand times more people than spas and has no price regulations and is more costly as well.... Maybe someone can tell me why gas prices , where stations are supposed to only make a few penny's per gallon can vary by 30 cents a gallon for the same brand of gas ..... If someone wants to start having price regulations thats the place to start it effects all of us.....
-
Same kind of a thing with Tommy Bahama clothes I love their stuff but can't find any "deals" so If I want a shirt, its going to be about 100 bucks....
You must be one bad dresser...
:)
-
I don't know maybe, I am .....But I do know I like Tommy Bahama clothes ....
-
Amazing.
Where did you get "price regualtions?" from? Did you really infer from my comments that I was looking for regulations?
Let me ask you: Does everyone who comes into the store over the course of 2 months pay the exact same price for the tub?
-
Most dealers around here never change the prices of the tubs but do throw in extras, instore credit, payment terms etc
-
So are all the Spa dealers saying they don't negotiate with the buyer over the price?
-
Most dealers do not change their prices.
-
Amazing.
Where did you get "price regualtions?" from? Did you really infer from my comments that I was looking for regulations?
Let me ask you: Does everyone who comes into the store over the course of 2 months pay the exact same price for the tub?
For the most part YES....some people want different things included but by and large yes most everyone pays the same ...the window may change by 200.00 for varying reasons... As to why I infer about pricing what is it that you want to see... you do not answer any questions only ask questions and make statements that seem to be lacking in credible example or reason...
-
For the most part YES....some people want different things included but by and large yes most everyone pays the same ...the window may change by 200.00 for varying reasons... As to why I infer about pricing what is it that you want to see... you do not answer any questions only ask questions and make statements that seem to be lacking in credible example or reason...
Welcome to the conversation. I want a free steroe.
-
I want a free gazebo with mini bar and galley kitchen, plasma tv and a massaging chair. Any deals like that out there?? OH yeah, I also want the Leafs to win the cup.
-
You won't get it. Good luck trying.
When one sale end another begins.
-
Ok I was half serious.
You know what would make me as a consumer happy? I'd like to know that Joe Blow didn't pay $500-700 less for his hot tub 2 months ago.
I'd like to have some price protection gurantee for the season.
I'd like to see manufactuers who advertise free steroes actually have free steroes.
I'd like to see dealers advertise thier prices.
Oh, and toss in one of those rubber ducks too. ;D
Re: Skewed in the salesman favor: When negotiating a price, the buyer does not always get the best price. It varies. It will however never go below your price point. However it can and mostly sells for more.
-
lol...Your still not answering any questions...but if you ever do heres another for you... Do you believe in " Free Delivery" if so you must think the guys showing up with the truck and their time are volunteers ....Its great to get a good and fair deal and it should be like that always .....but to really think you are going to get something for nothing is foolish .... You want a free stereo ask the dealer to show the MSRP on the spa and tell him fine throw in the stereo and hes got a deal ...Of course that free stereo may cost you a few thousand extra ....but hey just think you are at that Saturn dealer you mentioned earlier and paying FULL RETAIL is something you can feel good about if its marketed right....
-
Ok I was half serious.
You know what would make me as a consumer happy? I'd like to know that Joe Blow didn't pay $500-700 less for his hot tub 2 months ago.
I'd like to have some price protection gurantee for the season.
I'd like to see manufactuers who advertise free steroes actually have free steroes.
I'd like to see dealers advertise thier prices.
Oh, and toss in one of those rubber ducks too. ;D
You must have never worked in retail, First why does almost every retail store out there run adds and offer special sales even stores like Costco with the seasonal coupon book but try and get the price with out the coupon or a week after it expired ....its not going to happen .... Retailers in all trades run promotions to bring people into the store has been happening for hundreds of years .....People like a sale ...and some simply are better than others ......
-
Drewstar-
It may help all of us if you would answer the two questions I asked you.
-
lol...Your still not answering any questions...but if you ever do heres another for you... Do you believe in " Free Delivery" if so you must think the guys showing up with the truck and their time are volunteers ....Its great to get a good and fair deal and it should be like that always .....but to really think you are going to get something for nothing is foolish .... You want a free stereo ask the dealer to show the MSRP on the spa and tell him fine throw in the stereo and hes got a deal ...Of course that free stereo may cost you a few thousand extra ....but hey just think you are at that Saturn dealer you mentioned earlier and paying FULL RETAIL is something you can feel good about if its marketed right....
I guess I must be dense. What can I answer for you?
-
Sundance corp has caused this problem. Sundances ad should have said "free stereo but dealer participation may effect consumer cost" The sundance dealers should discuss this with the company they represent. If the free stereo is worth it to drive traffic to the stores then great, but if the cost of the stereo to the dealers is taking all thier profit then tell sundance it will be hard to make profit with this promotion. Sundance is good with CUSTOMER service. Is Sundance that unconcerned with thier dealer base?............?? You dealers are the turn key people for Sundance, remind Sundance of this fact. No spas are sold without you dealers. Promotions like this are why customers are untrusting with dealers. I hope the next promo is not something like get all your money back from a rebate.
-
Drewster,
Just out of curiousity, in your "opinion" How would you like to see the pricing structured on hot tubs? And How would you say it is different than most other products we all can purchase today?
-
Amazing.
Where did you get "price regualtions?" from? Did you really infer from my comments that I was looking for regulations?
Let me ask you: Does everyone who comes into the store over the course of 2 months pay the exact same price for the tub?
Yes, and as a shopper, I could prove that to you, but, as a shopper, or more likely a shrewd shopper that is convinced you must negotiate a price, you would likely believe that what I would show you was not supporting what you expected or believed it to be. You would persist for lower pricing than the other guy or something extra for free. It has happened before.
I would be doing a disservice to others who bought from me at my "firm" pricing structure, if I were to discount the price to one and not everyone. This is the time where I watch the shopper walk out the door because he is in control and he is firmly convinced he can actually get it cheaper. He walks out, never comes back until he has a problem with what he did get and we both loose.
I have seen it happen so many times. Sometime you can not save consumers from their beliefs when they are so doggedly convinced they are being overcharged or should be able to get a better deal than others.
I had one shopper walk out the door because I would not throw in an extra filter. It was a petty issue and I was beyond my coping ability, he never let the door close. He came back in, but he said to me, "well I guess you are at your bottom line."
This is where I say shoppers don't know a good deal when they see one, and no we are not all at the same price, and no, we all don't do the same thing either. To some it is all about price, not the quality, not the service, not the people you are dealing with, not about the product being better, IT IS ALL ABOUT THE PRICE.
This really hurts all of the dealers too, because as much as I wanted his business, I had taken money from others in good faith. The price they paid was an honest and fair price for the product and services that we delivered to them.
For someone to pay less, as much as I need and want their business, We can not cross that line, while we watch others lie, yes lie to people about rebates, warranties, and other issues just to get their money. Sorry to say, we all know that exist and goes on, and there seem to be some similarities that identify them.
It is not just because they are selling spas or in the spa induatry. So you can not generalize that all spa dealers can not be trusted because all spa dealers "over charge", don't tell the truth, or charge everbody a different price.
What ever happend to honesty, integrity and ethics.
Drewstar, I need to ask what line of work are you in that you have become so cynical, untrusting and judgemental? I peg you for law enfocement. And, if that is the case, to what level do you deal with honesty, integrity and ethics. On your side, yes, ontheir side, no.
Maybe you're a Dr. (but then you wouldn't be hung up on this issue), maybe your in sales, (not likely, you would have a better understanding), you are certainly not in a customer service related industry. I peg you for an outspoken voice of authority, a protector, someone he sees bad things an a regular basis, one who questions the motives and interests of others.
Just curious, you need not answer, and I do not intend to irritate or offend you, or even question your intent. I simply want to understand you along with other shoppers in what they want or expect when they enter my store.
Please believe me, I want to help them, as well as my business. Maybe you can help me see this through your eyes.
-
Drewster,
Just out of curiousity, in your "opinion" How would you like to see the pricing structured on hot tubs? And How would you say it is different than most other products we all can purchase today?
Remove the negotiaitng. Price stickered is price paid. Advertise the price. I can pick up the Sunday paper and see that a Sony Plasma 42 tv is $5K at Best buys. I can see it's $6.5K at Sears. I can buy it at Circuit City with thier price match policy as well as get a 30 day guarentee on the price. I have a fair amoount of confidence in that price, because next week I can see what the price is.
I can go on the internet and look up Car's invoice's and also get a kelly blue book. I can compare a Honda amoung several dealers in one area.
-
So, items like a lowest price guarantee, 30 day Money Back guarantee, 30 Day exchange guarantee would be some things that you are interested in? Those are items that we do supply to all of our customers.
So we can all help our customers better, what else would make you happy?
-
I guess I must be dense. What can I answer for you?
on Today at 9:30am, drewstar wrote:"It's about being a wise shopper and getting a fair deal. As I mentioned earlier, the current pricing structure is much more heavely skewed in the dealers favor than the consumer, more so than in other markets."
Can you please explain exactly why and how you feel this way.... As a dealer I have no idea as what you mean...?
I asked you about seeing the MSRP for the spa and than offering to pay it as long it included a Stereo and I mentioned would you feel better if you payed FULL MSRP in the same way a Saturn dealer charges since you mentioned them earlier ....If you own a Saturn and feel good about them, that is fine but all Saturn has done is marketed FULL MSRP and because of the way it is presented people feel good about paying it but there is zero discount to it and is the very same thing that every auto sold in America has on it which is a window sticker...
-
Remove the negotiaitng. Price stickered is price paid. Advertise the price. I can pick up the Sunday paper and see that a Sony Plasma 42 tv is $5K at Best buys. I can see it's $6.5K at Sears. I can buy it at Circuit City with thier price match policy as well as get a 30 day guarentee on the price. I have a fair amoount of confidence in that price, because next week I can see what the price is.
I can go on the internet and look up Car's invoice's and also get a kelly blue book. I can compare a Honda amoung several dealers in one area.
Drewstar,
Do you have any idea of how small the spa market is compared to what you just mentioned....The things you want are not practical because the market is so small....Do you have any idea of the cost of those ads that company's like Sears. Best Buy, Circuit City, run. A mom and pop spa store can not advertise like that .... I think you have gotten varied opinions on things and from several different people from different parts of the country and they seem to be consistent with each other....
-
on Today at 9:30am, drewstar wrote:"It's about being a wise shopper and getting a fair deal. As I mentioned earlier, the current pricing structure is much more heavely skewed in the dealers favor than the consumer, more so than in other markets."
Can you please explain exactly why and how you feel this way.... As a dealer I have no idea as what you mean...?
I asked you about seeing the MSRP for the spa and than offering to pay it as long it included a Stereo and I mentioned would you feel better if you payed FULL MSRP in the same way a Saturn dealer charges since you mentioned them earlier ....If you own a Saturn and feel good about them, that is fine but all Saturn has done is marketed FULL MSRP and because of the way it is presented people feel good about paying it but there is zero discount to it and is the very same thing that every auto sold in America has on it which is a window sticker...
Ok, Today at 12:20 I wrote "Re: Skewed in the salesman favor: When negotiating a price, the buyer does not always get the best price. It varies. It will however never go below your price point. However it can and mostly sells for more. "
This isn't unique to spas , this is true for any item negotiated.
-
Drewstar,
Do you have any idea of how small the spa market is compared to what you just mentioned....The things you want are not practical because the market is so small....Do you have any idea of the cost of those ads that company's like Sears. Best Buy, Circuit City, run. A mom and pop spa store can not advertise like that .... I think you have gotten varied opinions on things and from several different people from different parts of the country and they seem to be consistent with each other....
I fully understand that. But I was specifically asked what I'd like. I tried to explain as clear as possible that as a consumer what my concerns were.
-
Buy what you like, if you believe it was a good deal when you bought it and you are enjoying it then stop looking at tub prices until you need another one in 15 years. I bought gas yesterday for 91.1 cents per liter, last night it was 79.9 cents per liter, I have no regrets about being ripped off daily so why should I feel bad about potentially getting ripped off aevery 15 years.
Ray
-
Buy what you like, if you believe it was a good deal when you bought it and you are enjoying it then stop looking at tub prices until you need another one in 15 years. I bought gas yesterday for 91.1 cents per liter, last night it was 79.9 cents per liter, I have no regrets about being ripped off daily so why should I feel bad about potentially getting ripped off aevery 15 years.
Ray
Agreed. However, before I buy, like velocity Iwill do my homework to find out what constitues a fair price. Wasn't that what we were doing here?
If a tub without a steroe sells for on average 8500 and the manufactuer promotes free steroes. If I go into the store and find the tub with a steroe is 9900. I'd be more than just a bit dispointed, and frankly annoyed that the company would do that.
-
Someone guessed what you might do Drew Star...I am going with politician ......based on your answering of questions... ;)....just kidding.... ;)
-
boy is this topic getting a lot of "airplay".
drewstar, i'm not a dealer, just a consumer. you can't compare a spa dealer to best buy or your local honda car lots. there is nowhere near the volume. its apples to oranges. as far as i could tell there is only 1 spa dealer for any of the brands we looked at, here in my area. off the cuff, there must be at least 50 different stores that want to sell me a plasma tv, washing machine, or a leather couch. there are at least 8 different honda dealers.
would more dealers lower the prices? maybe.... they wouldn't stay open long though. not enough customers. you know, you could always open a dealer for the manufacturer who makes the tub you want. then you might see the flip side of the coin.
BTW, read the fine print on those price guarentees. it has to be the same model #.for example: best buy and home depot both carry ge washing machines. thay may look the same each store gets exclusive model #'s. thats a whole separate post, so i will say no more.....
as to pricing, where have you shopped?? the majority of all the dealers i looked at, here in se VA, had the prices marked right on the tub.
i live in va beach. there's a caldera dealer in richmond (95 mles away). my comp has an office there, so i had some one i know up there stop in to get a price quote. he was quoted 8600 for the same tub that i pd 8100 for. prices are going to vary no matter where you are...... i stand by my earlier post, is it worth it to YOU??
i personally would not buy a rolex watch. they are wonderful watch, i have nothing against them, but to me, i would not pay more for a watch than i did for my spa. but that is just me.
-
Someone guessed what you might do Drew Star...I am going with politician ......based on your answering of questions... ;)....just kidding.... ;)
I will once again ask you what haven't I answered? Was there something I missed?
-
never mind whats the point.....You do not have to answer ....I was really curious about the Saturn thing and why so many feel so good about paying FULL STICKER price and how it simply shows that marketing and a buyers perception of things is what really matters most, the price is unimportant if it is perceived and as fair and reasonable ....I can understand your point about the Stereo but if it was on sale last week for the 8500.00 and this week it is on sale for the stereo cost difference ....than thats not fair however if it is less than the additional cost of the stereo than it is a still a sale .....
-
boy is this topic getting a lot of "airplay".
drewstar, i'm not a dealer, just a consumer. you can't compare a spa dealer to best buy or your local honda car lots. there is nowhere near the volume. its apples to oranges. as far as i could tell there is only 1 spa dealer for any of the brands we looked at, here in my area. off the cuff, there must be at least 50 different stores that want to sell me a plasma tv, washing machine, or a leather couch. there are at least 8 different honda dealers.
would more dealers lower the prices? maybe.... they wouldn't stay open long though. not enough customers. you know, you could always open a dealer for the manufacturer who makes the tub you want. then you might see the flip side of the coin.
BTW, read the fine print on those price guarentees. it has to be the same model #.for example: best buy and home depot both carry ge washing machines. thay may look the same each store gets exclusive model #'s. thats a whole separate post, so i will say no more.....
as to pricing, where have you shopped?? the majority of all the dealers i looked at, here in se VA, had the prices marked right on the tub.
i live in va beach. there's a caldera dealer in richmond (95 mles away). my comp has an office there, so i had some one i know up there stop in to get a price quote. he was quoted 8600 for the same tub that i pd 8100 for. prices are going to vary no matter where you are...... i stand by my earlier post, is it worth it to YOU??
i personally would not buy a rolex watch. they are wonderful watch, i have nothing against them, but to me, i would not pay more for a watch than i did for my spa. but that is just me.
I shopped 4 dealers here. None had the price marked. The only place I went to that had the prices marked was a garage outift selling "discount spas".
One dealer (D1)I felt was playing games with me. He had the MSRP on the tub and I asked "is that your price?"
"No, that's the MSRP" he replied.
"Oh, well what does this tub cost?" I asked.
"What do you think it's worth?" he replied.
I left. That's not how I prefer to shop.
-
I shopped 4 dealers here. None had the price marked. The only place I went to that had the prices marked was a garage outift selling "discount spas".
One dealer (D1)I felt was playing games with me. He had the MSRP on the tub and I asked "is that your price?"
"No, that's the MSRP" he replied.
"Oh, well what does this tub cost?" I asked.
"What do you think it's worth?" he replied.
I left. That's not how I prefer to shop.
Now that is something I would never do ...We have all our prices plainly posted...
I do not blame you for walking out....
-
ahhh... the plaid jacketed spa sales rep.... i agree with you there, worst kind of "stereo" ;D ;D typical kind of sales rep(yes, was intention play on the earlier ref ot the stereo sale) . i probably would have said something snappy like," not worth enough to buy it from you, goodbye." but thats just me.
if you dont mind me asking, where are you? 4 for 4 is not very good odds....maybe some off the dealers here or the websites could direct you to a better dealers???? i only had 1 "stupid" experience, and oddly enough, it was dealer who sold d-1, LA spas, and great lakes.
I shopped 4 dealers here. None had the price marked. The only place I went to that had the prices marked was a garage outift selling "discount spas".
One dealer (D1)I felt was playing games with me. He had the MSRP on the tub and I asked "is that your price?"
"No, that's the MSRP" he replied.
"Oh, well what does this tub cost?" I asked.
"What do you think it's worth?" he replied.
I left. That's not how I prefer to shop.
-
hey!?? how did this post go from 7 back to 6 pages??
-
ahhh... the plaid jacketed spa sales rep.... i agree with you there, worst kind of "stereo" ;D ;D typical kind of sales rep(yes, was intention play on the earlier ref ot the stereo sale) . i probably would have said something snappy like," not worth enough to buy it from you, goodbye." but thats just me.
if you dont mind me asking, where are you? 4 for 4 is not very good odds....maybe some off the dealers here or the websites could direct you to a better dealers???? i only had 1 "stupid" experience, and oddly enough, it was dealer who sold d-1, LA spas, and great lakes.
I'm in central MA. I have an old Nordic tub. However in 171 hours I will have a Tiger Rive Caspain sitting in my back yard.
-
OH MY GOSH!!
what are you doing sitting here typing??? your new spa will be there in only 10,260 minutes!! quick.. grab a towel! get you boom box! (unless you get the free stereo... oh wait, wrong maker ;D) i hope you have your suit on to save time.
above all, in a "few" minutes you will be in hot water, so enjoy.....
-
OH MY GOSH!!
what are you doing sitting here typing??? your new spa will be there in only 10,260 minutes!! quick.. grab a towel! get you boom box! (unless you get the free stereo... oh wait, wrong maker ;D) i hope you have your suit on to save time.
above all, in a "few" minutes you will be in hot water, so enjoy.....
Suits? Nope Au-natural in my tub. So in order to save time I am not wearing any clothes.
Of course I don't think my boss is too happy with it, and I think I may frighten the delivery guys. :o
-
WOW!! This sure did get heated. Well anyway I contacted the dealer and the reply was "What free Stereo"....Go figure. After convincing him of the free stereo special, The price had to be reworked. it went from 9900.00 plus tax to 9700.00 plus tax. I thought the stereo was a 799.00 option...atleasy thats what he was charging me the first time for it. Well I guess its just a numbers game. I'm not the type of person thats wants something for nothing...I just want an honest deal without all the BS. Still up in the air. I will be visisting another dealer this weekend. We'll see.
Thanks to all that posted...it was pretty interesting.
-
i only had 1 "stupid" experience, and oddly enough, it was dealer who sold d-1, LA spas, and great lakes.
Can you go in more detail? If it's the dealer I think it is, it's the only one we didn't check out while we were shopping, they had replaced a pool liner for us a couple of years ago, with so-so results. ::)
Mine was the place on Lynnhaven, no water in any of the display tubs, due to "heath concerns" ???
-
FREE...get's attention. For every person that realizes it's all a sales game, there are 10 that think it's legit. Those ten are what it's all about, whether good or bad. Plus your getting someone to buy something that they will love and not regret anyway...no guilt.