Hot Tub Forum

Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: O-Ren_Ishi_I on June 02, 2005, 02:31:10 am

Title: Arctic Spa, Marq Epic, HS Envoy & SD Maxxus Review
Post by: O-Ren_Ishi_I on June 02, 2005, 02:31:10 am: I am going to do a wet test this weekend, now my concern is that I don't really have any testomonies of arctic spas...

Can somebody help and to clear it up, the model I am most interested in is the Arctic frontier luxury extreme... edition...

please let me know... thanks in advance
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: Tman122 on June 02, 2005, 05:06:42 am: You are right. There's a whole lot of Arctic bragging, and this is the best out there, and this spa reins superior over all the rest. But you never see much after the purchase. After all that bragging what would you expect a year or so down the road other than this is a great spa. Do you think any one would come back here and say, well I though it was going to be far superior than the rest but turns out it is about the same as 10-15 other brands.
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: Brewman on June 02, 2005, 07:28:33 am: Most of the posts concerning Arctic spas on this board are from sales people. Best thing to do is check them out just as you do the other brands, don't get swayed by the hype (holds true for any sales pitch), and be prepared- they seem to be on the high end of the price spectrum.
Brewman
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: JcDenton on June 02, 2005, 08:36:46 am: I've had my Arctic for almost a year. I am very happy with it so far.

Jc
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: fletch49 on June 02, 2005, 09:57:20 am: I bought the Arctic Cub, last year. It's been a great tub..zero problems.

I think all of these Arctic Spa dealers that make all of these false, over the top claims that I keep hearing about must of stopped frequenting this site. All I ever see is non-arctic spa owners talking about these aggressive AS dealers, however, I never actually see them on this site? In the last six months I've read one silly comment from a AS salesguy in Brampton, Ontario. In my opinion, that hardly justifies the harsh criticism I see. Perhaps I've missed a few?

What I do hear is positive feedback from actual AS owners.

Let us know how the wet test goes!
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: JcDenton on June 02, 2005, 10:21:34 am: Unfortunately, the only attention that Arctic gets here is usually from new-time posters with a hidden agenda that doesn't remain hidden for long.

It's very curious as well as interesting to watch. Most of these posters have a pretty short shelf-life and dissappear quickly.
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: stuart on June 02, 2005, 10:43:58 am: Quote
Unfortunately, the only attention that Arctic gets here is usually from new-time posters with a hidden agenda that doesn't remain hidden for long.

It's very curious as well as interesting to watch. Most of these posters have a pretty short shelf-life and dissappear quickly.

Amen to that! I find that it's pretty aggressive and obnoxious also!

James Keirstead, one of the Principle's with the company follows these boards and is pretty professional how he posts and answers questions. My issue is that I quite sure that he can figure out who the negative posters from his group are and probably knows but allows them to continue with their rhetoric.

He had a guy posting from Colorado under the name nelg that was just rude! I’ve often asked if this trickles down from the company philosophy of selling?

In the end I would say that it is probably a decent product but still needs to be proven with time but I would avoid them simply for the scare tactics and negative way of selling.
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: JcDenton on June 02, 2005, 11:36:53 am: Quote
I don't think Arctic has been manufacturing spas the way they do long enough to know what issues with surface over time....

Curious - what do you think the probationary period for any new spa manufacturer should be then?

Jc
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: bosco0633 on June 02, 2005, 11:44:17 am: well I am going to give you my two cents. I purchased an arctic tundra and I am awaiting delivery.

I love the tub and the feel when wet tested. I will stop here because thats all that matters.

This crap about best heat bills, hardest top on the market and all the other bs that is associated makes arctic have a bad reputation.

It is a TP tub if you are ok with that then thats a bonuse. Price wise, I find people saying that it is to much but compared to prices around here it is in ballpark with all top brands.

Sales staff, some are good, but you get some real crazy sales guys that have been brain washed by the company and they just look rediculous and ignorant.

I have heard nothing but positive feedback on the service end of the tub and everyone that has one does not have any negative coments.

I disagree with the last comment made. Dont stay away because of poor selling practices. If that was the case most of us would not buy any brand. The bottom line is that it is a business and everyone wants your money, how they go about getting it....well thats a different story. Stay informed and learn as much as you can so that you can say that you bought the best tub for you.

Good luck
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: fletch49 on June 02, 2005, 11:53:48 am: I don't think a few aggressive and obnoxious salesman represent the way the entire company conduct business. Unless, of course, you sell Looney Spas ;D

I have 4 dealerships within 1.5 hours of me, and having visited three of the four before my purchase, I certainly didn't get that vib.
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: stuart on June 02, 2005, 12:03:26 pm: Quote

Curious - what do you think the probationary period for any new spa manufacturer should be then?

Jc

I think it has less to do with the probationary period of how long the product holds up and more to do with justifying the claims of superiority....

You can just as easily state "We manufacture this way because we see it being sensible or we believe it to be revolutionary" as you can state "We have proven ourselves with best with energy studies and everyone else is wrong for doing it the way they do." or how about "If you buy another brand you will get pests and critters in the base because they don't do it like us" lets add "we insulate how your house is insulated" WRONG! My house has insulation completely encasing the plumbing!

It's all about the selling...

In many ways I admire Arctic just as I do ThermoSpas for their drive, ambition and creativeness, I just feel that they have let corners be cut ethically along the way to make money and grow. They certainly aren’t the only ones....

IMO, the probation should be placed on the ability to state the claims not the company itself.
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: JcDenton on June 02, 2005, 12:23:44 pm: Fair enough.

Quote
You can just as easily state "We manufacture this way because we see it being sensible or we believe it to be revolutionary" as you can state "We have proven ourselves with best with energy studies and everyone else is wrong for doing it the way they do." or how about "If you buy another brand you will get pests and critters in the base because they don't do it like us" lets add "we insulate how your house is insulated" WRONG! My house has insulation completely encasing the plumbing!

For the record, I never received any of this at any time of during my shopping experience. In fact, when my dealer (Arctic) knew that it was either him or Beachcomber, there was no effort what-so-ever to slag the competition. In fact, he quite agreed that they make a good product.

It came down to feel and price. We felt better on both counts with Arctic. IMO only.

Jc
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: stuart on June 02, 2005, 12:34:50 pm: Quote
Fair enough.

For the record, I never received any of this at any time of during my shopping experience. In fact, when my dealer (Arctic) knew that it was either him or Beachcomber, there was no effort what-so-ever to slag the competition. In fact, he quite agreed that they make a good product.

It came down to feel and price. We felt better on both counts with Arctic. IMO only.

Jc

I commend your dealer for that and he deserves every sale he gets...That does not seem to be the "norm" for Arctic dealers.

My hope is that you and I are both still posting 6 to 7 years from now and can compare spas then.
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: JcDenton on June 02, 2005, 01:01:01 pm: Quote
My hope is that you and I are both still posting 6 to 7 years from now and can compare spas then.

I would like that very much. :)
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: O-Ren_Ishi_I on June 02, 2005, 02:42:55 pm: Ok, well here is the thing and I will compare it to this way... so that it makes sense...

The three models I am going to compare are high end "hotspring" = Envoy "marquis" = Epic and the "artic" = frontier legend extreme.

I have wet tested the Epic so far and will be wet testing the other two this weekend, and honestly that will be the most important factor when making the final decision.

But inherent diffrences that come out quickly.

for me and my girlfriend the lounge seater is all important. Why because we want to lounge and get therepy. Right off the bat the Epic from Marquis was great because it had calf and thigh jets... HOWEVER, and a HUGE however, was that they don't all come on at once... I know it doesn't seem a big deal at first but it was annoying to me... the regular seaters were a good mix but it was like this big ole lounger didn't have any power behind it. And the neck massagers on the epic where innovative too, I guess meaning the other two won't be having them. But, alas they just weren't that powerful enough to notice they were really there. And I wish they were a pulsing shot not just a straight shot of continuous water...

So, again, the lounger on the Epic wasn't that great overall AND the diffreential of the jets wasn't immpressive... I mean if you have 4 or 5 people in the spa it won't be that much fun because the jets really don't run all at once in enough areas IMHO. To marquee another motor would fix this problem and the diffrentials and make this thing a runnaway purchase....
Oh and lastly I didn't like the siding at all... It isn't composite wood nor real wood but rather a thin looking vinal siding, and NO built in pillows...

which leads me to the ENVOY by Hotspring. right off the bat they don't have calf or thigh jets at all... but from the marquis experience I really don't think it will make much difference because you can't get them all on at once anyway, meaning, hey, I could just change my seating. But the dual Motomassage should be great and I say that because we tested a lower model but not the Envoy and I liked it, why? because it gave a soothing and relaxing feeling of an ever changing position jet. They might be hercules powerfull but the motion goes a long way IMHO. the composite wood siding looks better then Epics and the lesser amount of jets should be a good thing because that in all accounts should mean they are a bit stronger. Again, won't know till I wet test it this weekend.

Now, on to the Ever so hyped ARTIC Frontier Luxury Extreme. Now, I have to say I am choosing the "luxury Extreme" for the test because I some very serious considerations and purpose for the extra jets. For one, it has a whole extra motor... but what one thing was wierd is that he said the spa was 270 GPM which seemed to be on the low end for such a strong and numbersome motor system. perhaps he didn't have the proper stats for the extreme edition as opposed to the regular 2 motor edition. I will dig further when I wet test. Another plus is that this has an airrattor, or whatever it is called, you know the champagne bubbly thing that airs through spa. This to me is a cool feature and is more of a relaxing thing than a therapy thing IMO... worth having? YES IMHO... Again, I haven't wet tested but the sell's person said that all the jets work as opposed to certain areas on the lounger... I hope this is true and I will be waiting for it, big plus to me if it does. Lastly, the wood outter cover is beutiful to me and I dont' mind sealing it ever so often... We just built a buetiful deck and this will go oh so nicely rather than the silly fake wood... Composite would be good too but the natural to me looks better... Again, not options on the other two. Lastly, and A negative right off the bat for my girlfriend and I are the tub color choices seem eehhhe ahhhhh... blahhhh not so nice but perhaps it will look differnt once we are there... We will try to see the pricing and where they will take it but when we are done wet testing I will come back to the post and let you guys and gals now truly how everything went....
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: Mendocino101 on June 02, 2005, 07:20:17 pm: It to me really seems like you got a very poor demo of the Epic .... all the seats in the spa can have jets working if you want them ...but what really makes the Marquis spas shine is their ability to isolate muscle groups and work them one at a time ....They can do this because they have a patent on the only 3 way value in the industry ..no other therapy jet has the water flow of their HK40 which is up to 40 GPM on each jet ...If I am correct the next largest in the industry is 20 GPM ... Wet test each spa to see what is best for you in the end thats what really matters most ..It does seem to me that you were given a very poor demo of the Epic ....
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: wmccall on June 02, 2005, 07:38:00 pm: Quote
It's very curious as well as interesting to watch. Most of these posters have a pretty short shelf-life and dissappear quickly.

A wise person one said, "All things in Moderation: " ;D ;) ;D ;)

Whenever these discussions come about from several brands that are not in my area, I check the websites of those brands to see if there are any new dealers. I find it annoying that Artic will only list a dealer within 40 miles on ther website. That seems a bit restrictive to me.
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: Kyle on June 02, 2005, 08:04:57 pm: Number of motors has nothing to do with flow. Marquis used three motors in 2000 and got 330 gpm vs. 320 out of two with the Epic. You can run the calf and thigh jets at the same time. You can also run all the standard jets in 5 seats for a crowd at the same time. You never mention the interactive pillar post for total body therapy. Marquis siding is a wood composite. Sounds like your story already had an ending.
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: Kyle on June 02, 2005, 09:57:53 pm: I have to agree with previous writer...you have not been properly trained on how to operate the Epic. It is very simple with instruction, but without knowing anything....The first time to drive a Nascar ride would probably be difficult to master..but once you do
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: O-Ren_Ishi_I on June 02, 2005, 11:10:41 pm: Trained? I tell you we spent an hour in there and even there "virtual model" on the internet doesn't allow you to turn on more than one section of the lounger at a time... Believe me, they are in the top running so if need be, I can go back and check it out again to give them the proper chance...

And in defense of the brand, it wasn't the dealer/salesperson who was there, it was the installer so perhaps he just didn't know...
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: Mendocino101 on June 03, 2005, 01:09:37 am: Quote
Trained?
And in defense of the brand, it wasn't the dealer/salesperson who was there, it was the installer so perhaps he just didn't know...

Well that does say a lot .... It seems like he did not know how to show you or perhaps he did not understand how to fully work the spa...but ....you do need to understand that if you want all jets to work at once ....try the everyday line ....if you want deep therapy that works deep into the muscle tissue ....than to do it effectively you have to have a high flow system ....any maker out there can put lots of smaller jets in their spa and run them all at once....but it will not give you the deep therapy that many desire .... I am amazed at those who claim large horse power numbers or 100 jet spas ..... the over whelming majority run off 50 amp circuits with a few running on 60 ...but in either case they will only drive so much ....there are no magic motors out there no matter what a certain gentleman may say out in Colorado ....
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: Tman122 on June 03, 2005, 05:33:45 am: All this talk about deep muscle therapy, my little 3.5 HP motor can make my muscles and skin hurt after to long so I have to turn it down. Am I missing something? We have it on high with the air blower on for 10 minutes and then low with no air for 45
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: Mendocino101 on June 03, 2005, 11:39:39 am: Quote
All this talk about deep muscle therapy, my little 3.5 HP motor can make my muscles and skin hurt after to long so I have to turn it down. Am I missing something? We have it on high with the air blower on for 10 minutes and then low with no air for 45

That is exactly what I am talking about but it has nothing to do with horse power ...If you have a Hi Flow jet one that puts out a larger volume of water ....than sitting in front of it for longer than 10 minutes is not a problem with the skin hurting or itching and it allows though the heat and water massage to work deeper into the muscle tissue ... Horse power means nothing .... smaller jet openings are what cause the skin to itch much more than the larger openings will ....
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: O-Ren_Ishi_I on June 04, 2005, 01:31:00 am: if anybody has any more information about Epic spas by Marquis and whether or not they have full jetting for the whole lounger... Please let me know...
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: stuart on June 04, 2005, 02:52:46 am: Quote
if anybody has any more information about Epic spas by Marquis and whether or not they have full jetting for the whole lounger... Please let me know...

Considering that you have tried one and are now an expert on the line!?

I honestly believed you to be a true shopper but with comments like this you fit right into the category of Arctic troll. There have been a few on this site but more on some of the other forums. Hopefully your not however most real customers don’t consider themselves experts after a couple of wet tests and certainly don’t attempt to undermine a product line for no apparent reason!

If anyone would like to see for themselves what an Epic is like let me know and I will get you set up with your own wet test. I wouldn't expect you to be foolish enough to just believe what myself or anyone else has to say without giving it a try for yourself. After all, I even met someone today that doesn't like Chocolate! (Perish the thought!)
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: zzaphod42 on June 04, 2005, 11:02:29 am: Quote
Considering that you have tried one and are now an expert on the line!?

I honestly believed you to be a true shopper but with comments like this you fit right into the category of Arctic troll. There have been a few on this site but more on some of the other forums. Hopefully your not however most real customers don’t consider themselves experts after a couple of wet tests and certainly don’t attempt to undermine a product line for no apparent reason!

No disrespect Stuart, but that seems a bit harsh. The customer is trying to find out if you can run all of the jets on the lounger of the Epic at the same time. Maybe I missed it, but nowhere did the customer state that they were an expert.

They are also saying that they would want the jets going at the same time. I am not sure why that is a problem???

I imagine for the majority of customers that buy a Marquis, the Tri-zone massage is a huge selling feature, just like for a Beachcomber the Protec is a huge selling feature. However, neither works for everyone, which is why both companies offer alternatives.
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: empolgation on June 04, 2005, 12:11:21 pm: Quote
if anybody has any more information about Epic spas by Marquis and whether or not they have full jetting for the whole lounger... Please let me know...

I have yet to have the pleasure of trying the Epic wet though I am somewhat familiar with how the Marquis tri-zone works. I am interpreting your "full jet therapy" to mean that you want all the jets in the lounger on at the same time.

With any of their tri-zone diverter valves you can choose to turn the knob such that it is inbetween "2 zones" thereby allowing flow to 2 of the 3 zones at the same time - of course the 2 zones will share the flow of the water and effectively give you "half strength" in each of the 2 zones.

So from my understanding of their tri-zone system and by looking at the interactive flow on their site... I don't believe you can have "full jet therapy" on the lounger. This would be your choices in the lounger seat:

- Back only (with "Overall" tri-zone setting)
- Thighs only
- Calves only
- Feet only

- Thigh/Calves sharing (sharing the flow)
- Calves/ Feet sharing

With additional playing you can set the "tri-zone control" between "to adirondack chair flow control" and "Overall" and have these options by sharing the flow with even more jets:

- Back/Thigh sharing
- Back/Calves sharing
- Back/Feet sharing

- Back/Thighs/Calves sharing
- back/Calves/Feet sharing
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: O-Ren_Ishi_I on June 04, 2005, 12:32:20 pm: Quote
I have yet to have the pleasure of trying the Epic wet though I am somewhat familiar with how the Marquis tri-zone works. I am interpreting your "full jet therapy" to mean that you want all the jets in the lounger on at the same time.

With any of their tri-zone diverter valves you can choose to turn the knob such that it is inbetween "2 zones" thereby allowing flow to 2 of the 3 zones at the same time - of course the 2 zones will share the flow of the water and effectively give you "half strength" in each of the 2 zones.

So from my understanding of their tri-zone system and by looking at the interactive flow on their site... I don't believe you can have "full jet therapy" on the lounger. This would be your choices in the lounger seat:

- Back only (with "Overall" tri-zone setting)
- Thighs only
- Calves only
- Feet only

- Thigh/Calves sharing (sharing the flow)
- Calves/ Feet sharing

With additional playing you can set the "tri-zone control" between "to adirondack chair flow control" and "Overall" and have these options by sharing the flow with even more jets:

- Back/Thigh sharing
- Back/Calves sharing
- Back/Feet sharing

- Back/Thighs/Calves sharing
- back/Calves/Feet sharing

Thank you,,, I noticed more of what you were saying while I wet tested.

And just to confirm, you can get 2 of the lower but definatly not all three zones, back, thigh calf, at once?

No, stuart I am not an expert, but that is what I want... So instead of deamonizing me for asking a question, why don't you explain the process and therefore help marquis out... instead of giving them a bad name...
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: stuart on June 04, 2005, 02:11:49 pm: Quote

Thank you,,, I noticed more of what you were saying while I wet tested.

And just to confirm, you can get 2 of the lower but definatly not all three zones, back, thigh calf, at once?

No, stuart I am not an expert, but that is what I want... So instead of deamonizing me for asking a question, why don't you explain the process and therefore help marquis out... instead of giving them a bad name...

You are absolutely correct! That was very harsh! I misread the "If anyone has info" as "If anyone wants info" Talk about putting your foot in your mouth!! :-[ I'm embarrassed... :-[

I don't often get harsh like that it just hit me wrong from my interpretation. Sorry....didn't mean to take my bad day out on you :)

Now as far as the lounge, you can put the valves at in-between points in real life where the virtual interactive won't let you do this. If I where you I would go back and play with it a bit. In fact PM me with the dealer and I will call them and walk them through the demo so that they can show you in person. 8)

BTW… The bigger question here again is, regardless of whether or not you can turn everything on at once, can you get that intensity of massage on each body part individually on any other spa? I have yet to find it.

Hey, I started out a great freindship with WindSurfDog by first attacking his point of veiw. Maybe this is the beguining of something good!! ;)
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: zzaphod42 on June 04, 2005, 02:30:48 pm: Quote
You are absolutely correct! That was very harsh! I misread the "If anyone has info" as "If anyone wants info" Talk about putting your foot in your mouth!! :-[ I'm embarrassed... :-[

I don't often get harsh like that it just hit me wrong from my interpretation. Sorry....didn't mean to take my bad day out on you :)

Now as far as the lounge, you can put the valves at in-between points in real life where the virtual interactive won't let you do this. If I where you I would go back and play with it a bit. In fact PM me with the dealer and I will call them and walk them through the demo so that they can show you in person. 8)

BTW… The bigger question here again is, regardless of whether or not you can turn everything on at once, can you get that intensity of massage on each body part individually on any other spa? I have yet to find it.

Hey, I started out a great freindship with WindSurfDog by first attacking his point of veiw. Maybe this is the beguining of something good!! ;)

Great post Stuart!

(sorry to hear you are/were having a bad day)
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: stuart on June 04, 2005, 02:36:03 pm: Quote
Great post Stuart!

(sorry to hear you are/were having a bad day)

Thanks! The cool thing about having a bad day is you get more chances to improve it every 24 hours!! ;) ;D 8)
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: J._McD on June 04, 2005, 11:04:42 pm: O ben ishi lying, what keeps you from buying? ???

"Cash is King" but apparently you don't have it because your still looking. :P

Yet you brought this artic cat up, just to bait the hook.
:o

If you had any common sense better spelling and grammer would come naturally and you wouldn't be so self centered and arrogant.

If you are so amazingly astute and able to get such deals, why then do you come to this board to raise this subject about artic, with a humble personna to learn instead of flaming rudness to others, as if you are better than those who have demonstrated a willingness to help. ???
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: O-Ren_Ishi_I on June 05, 2005, 11:44:26 pm: (part 1 of 3)

J MCD... ??? what?

Anyway, Simply put I haven't bought one because I am still wet testing. Who is being arogant. I believe my grandmother used to say, something about, "look who's calling the kettle black"...

Anyways part duo, I have returned from my awaited test of the Hotspring Envoy and the Arctic (well they lied)...

Ok here it goes. For goodness gracious, for those of you who know that arctic dealers are not in great numbers here in Florida (1)... Daytona... I on the other hand live very far away from that location. But, I still had to test the Arctic Frontier (luxory Extreme) Edition. Because it had the double lounger and lots of jets and three pumps and one air pump totalling 4 pumps and all the bells and whistles money could buy. To my dismay and dissapointment, after a 4 hour drive... They didn't have that modle set up. EVEN thought I implicitly expressed complete and udder specifics about the model I was interested in. My girlfriend and I were almost shocked... Of course I got yelled at... "I thought you said you called." Anywho, in response I said that I did but they guy assured me it was set up... Later he explained that he didn't know I was comming and the guy who told me that on the phone just had a misunderstanding. Cool misunderstanding 20 minutes away... 4 HOURS... That was not a good start.

However, before we drove to see that we went to the hotspring dealer to test the ENVOY. and that is the first review I will give since the test of the Marquis Last week...

My girlfriend was really impressed. She didn't seem to mind that the lounger seat had no thigh or calf jets. The spa has that buetiful shell (perl) and makes the light changes bounce off and reflect very very nicely... The lesser jets had to be a good thing... because all the seats had Awsome power you didn't get a sense of some parts of the spa being less compensated to appease having more jets for the sake of having more jets. The jets were almost too powerfull pushing us away from the seats and and stinging my back after a little while... remind me to discuss that later with possiblities of changing out some jets with thereputic jets instead of straight shot jets. To me I like the moto massager because it is a nice change up, really feels like somebody is going up and down your back, I honestly am impressed with the feature. The water fall is cool too and alas the Envoy was a better than expected tub and even my girlfriend being more partial to the Marquis because of family members owning them, she was taken over by the Envoy as a whole and she liked that it wasn't overly big. But her and I disagree on that little/big detail.

A couple negatives about the Envoy... And please don't flame me because I don't know and forgot to ask, had to hurry to get on my four hour drive to Artic across the state. The jets felt like they could have been heaven sent if they were more rotary and thereputic jets that "did" something instead of just straight power. the motomassager is great but more of a changeup would have been nice with the other jets... If you can add them later or replace them with others, you know, swap em out, that would ideal and we would probably be willing to do that. Second, after being in the Marquis Epic, I like its size... I dont' know, it grew on me and just seemed like the perfect size for me... Lastly, and for one of the things I will say positive about the Artic, the Marquis or the Hot spring Envoy's siding wasn't to be compared. The natural wood cedar was "AWSOME" and not available to the later two spa's. However, I will be increasingly willing to attempt to build my own ceader cover for either one of the spas, if the Arctic is not choosen.
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: O-Ren_Ishi_I on June 05, 2005, 11:46:04 pm: (part 2 of 3)

Ok, now for the arctic experience. Well, this is going to be short because the spa we wanted to test wasn't set up... Now, for any arctic dealers out there a word of advice. Throw the Grandaddies on the test lot. What in gods name would you not set up your best spa???? your telling about its' awards and design, but you don't have it to test??? Hmmm, my theory on this won't be discussed till a little bit later but I know exactly WHY it wasn't set up and it has a lot to do with how the company is set up and its varying spa jet packages. Ever hear of "too much complication and greed setting in?" But, of course I might be going to harsh on them and have totally gave the oppertunity to the owner and sells person to set up the tub within the next 4 weeks while we put the final finishes on the deck and outside features of the up and comming spa area.

Ok, what did the Arctic dealer show us? Everything, they have an amazing sells picth, that keeps going and going like the energizer bunny. However, my girlfriend is get to the point, I am the more analytical one so I like that stuff, she tires easily of it and wanted to jump in and get testing. First, the outter Shell is bueatiful and the inner shell is UGLY, without option of that clean pearl look like marquis and hotspring. They have a pearl option but not nearly as nice, the rest is that 1980's jumble of 20 different colors put on plastic. I have to admit, not not not attractive... hope they do something about that QUICK. But, that is not going to be a spa decision for me... Holding off the girlfriend on that idea might not be so Easy. Just letting you know it is noticible. Next, They have the allmight "air therepy" jets that blow water around and give a "churning affect." I have to agree, for the tub they showed us, which was a one of their bigger tubs without a lounger, didn't mean a hell of beans. Seriously, the air therepy jets didn't really do anything. As a matter of fact, the tub they showed us and I can't remember the name was horrible. The jets were only strong in one place. Now, the positive was is that yes, the place with the strong feeling jets had different' therapy jets and they did feel really good... but, and a HUGE but, I think the tub was possibly hooked up wrong, because none of the other 5 seats had power like the first... And, after sitting in the tub for the while we discovered that there was a HUGE jet in the middle of the tub, underneath the waterfall, so it was NOT a seat, and had a shit load of power comming out of the jet and just didn't make any sense. That is what lead me to believe they had to of had the tub hooked up wrong. HAD TO... it just didn't make sense with 3 motors and one good seat and the rest bad on the diverter that had that "rogue" jet taking up all the power. I asked the sells guy but he really didn't seem like he knew about the situation and said he would check on it with the owner.

I didn't make a huge deal and right off Arctic because it honesly wasn't the tub that we expected to test and not a tub we would want anyway... Too big with no lounger. Now, a smaller tub, called the cub, which was like a 4 to maybe 5 seater with a lounger was a much better showing of Arctic. All the jets and seating had good power and feel. Again, I think it was called the cub. It had a lounger with calf and I think thigh jets that ALL worked at once and was honestly a really good feeling... NOTE TO MARQUIS, fix that problem IT MAKES A HUGEEEEEE DIFFERENCE. now, the tub was totally over filled and seemed like that if it weren't so overfilled that it wouldn't have been anywhere near an exceptable depth for me,,, I am 6 1 and my girl is 5 8 but I don't think she would have minded as much as I would of. So, all in all the arctic is still in the running. Albeit, we can test the one WE WANT. I made it explicitly clear that next time, get your "popular" tub set up so we can test it or we won't be making a 6000-9000 dollar deal. Some more points about the arctic I liked is that it has a lot of features and structure pluses. Some more important than others... the outside ceader wood cabinentry was AWSOME and by far the best.... And the potential is there... But, unless the Arctic Frontier Legend Extreme has a great showing... I won't be going with the Canadian big chill. Lastly, the Arctic spa seems like something in the late 80's early 90's that they are still in the process of perfecting... without jumping ahead and taking the next step... And I mean that sincerly with regards to simple things like shell color choices, depth of tub and almost rediculous amounts of jets to get a couple or few that you might actually want where you want.
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: O-Ren_Ishi_I on June 05, 2005, 11:46:28 pm: (part 3 of 3)

Oh and one more thing about Arctic spa's. the ceader wood steps are by far the cheapest and best constructed... They have bars and stools and steps, two teir and one tier... They are really really nice and not that expensive... so, for that much they are a great deal.

Oh, and another thing, which I hope serves as a warning to any business person that tries this sells tatic with individuals who are "savvy" about what is going on. Don't tell me that a tub that has 20 fewwer jets and 1 less pump is 3000-7000 dollars cheaper or more expensive than the next. That seems silly and like you rather make the most money on the amount I am about to give you. There is no reason why you shouldn't have one of your nices and newest tubs set up and ready to go for a test... I know that you don't want me to bargain hunt or barter for a better spa with less money. But, when you have list prices that are silly and ABSURD from the start, then that is what I am going to think about one's company from the onset. Step with you best foot forward and try honesty, that will go a lot further in my opinion and MARQUIS is in first place as far as I am concerned for that exact reason. But, hot spring is a strong tight second and pricing might come down to the final issue. I litterly would have to be "blown away" by the Arctic to choose that tub...

Sorry, but I hope this long winded response helps others in their quest for the perfect tub.
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: O-Ren_Ishi_I on June 05, 2005, 11:50:01 pm: oh and J MCD I just read the rest of your post... I didn't before because I first thought you were retarded. But now after reading it in its entirety, YOUR AN ASSSSSS... I have the cash but since when does anybody drop thousands of dollars on something that they haven't researched??? Bring up Arctic because of??? what is your point... It is a tub that I considered for a few reasons... that if you read this post you would understand... Seriously you're an idiot and you should READ first before you post things that make you look like a MORON
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: stuart on June 05, 2005, 11:52:42 pm: I have a spa for you to try and I bet it will be a perfect match...How about a D1 Diplomat? It has 2 lounges, one set up specifically for a man one for a woman (or one tall one short.

All the jets do what you want and the quality is every bit as good or better than any other spa out there.

(http://d1spas.com/images/spa_lg/Diplomat.jpg)
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: O-Ren_Ishi_I on June 05, 2005, 11:54:07 pm: wow, stuart who makes this???
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: stuart on June 05, 2005, 11:55:44 pm: Quote
wow, stuart who makes this???

http://www.d1spas.com
Title: Try this one.
Post by: Gomboman on June 06, 2005, 12:34:10 am: O-Ren_Ishi_I,

It would be a shame not to wet test a Sundance spa for your quest. Look at something like this....

http://sundancespas.com/800Series/Maxxus.php
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: O-Ren_Ishi_I on June 06, 2005, 12:39:40 am: Sundance, HERE IN my area... I honestly don't know about other dealers so don't get upset at me what a dealer did... Was a markup king just like Arctic seems to be. This is even before I understood that you can haggle for these things... and the nice spas they have are a supposed ungoddly prices... This is offensive to me and perhaps I can take a second look now but that sells method to me is frowned upon...
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: O-Ren_Ishi_I on June 06, 2005, 12:47:59 am: ON second thought,,, I will test out sundance...
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: Mendocino101 on June 06, 2005, 01:52:46 am: O-Ren_Ishi_I

.... You speak about the jets being almost to strong in the Hot Springs ...and you complain about the not all the Jets working in the Epic Adirondack chair at once .....As I posted to you before about the reason why Marquis does it like that and it is for the very reason you mention about jets that hurt or sting the skin...I guess I thought you perhaps might have an appreciation of why Marquis focuses on the Hi Volume water therapy and working one group of muscles at a time ...again if you want all the jets to run at once THEY WILL BE SMALLER and that is what will cause the sting or itch ...maybe after a few more wet tests it will make more sense to you .....I am not "flaming" or nothing like that ...just hoping you will understand the thought behind the Marquis spa.....
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: O-Ren_Ishi_I on June 06, 2005, 09:46:26 am: Quote
O-Ren_Ishi_I

.... You speak about the jets being almost to strong in the Hot Springs ...and you complain about the not all the Jets working in the Epic Adirondack chair at once .....As I posted to you before about the reason why Marquis does it like that and it is for the very reason you mention about jets that hurt or sting the skin...I guess I thought you perhaps might have an appreciation of why Marquis focuses on the Hi Volume water therapy and working one group of muscles at a time ...again if you want all the jets to run at once THEY WILL BE SMALLER and that is what will cause the sting or itch ...maybe after a few more wet tests it will make more sense to you .....I am not "flaming" or nothing like that ...just hoping you will understand the thought behind the Marquis spa.....

Med I actually do see what you're saying and I do agree with you to a large extent... That is why marquis to me is high in the running... Now, if I can change the wood ceder cabinent option we might be all set... But but but I am going to test the sundance and from what I see so far, it might be the bell ringer... the maxxus version that is...

does anybody own one of these
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: drewstar on June 06, 2005, 10:05:13 am: FWIW: Some Data points/observations second hand.

I'm shopping for a new tub and a friends neighbor has an Artic Kodiak spa. I spoke with him this weekend and looked at the tub. I did not get in it.

After a year and a half, over all he is satisifeid with his Artic Tub.

I belive he paid in the mid $8ks for his.

Within the first 4 months a pump went and was replaced quickly by the dealer.

He told me average cost to operate were $1.00 per day.

He thinks the tub is a bit loud, acceptable, but a bit loud.

He prefers the sculpted bucket seat to the lounger, and wishes there where more calf and foot massages.

overall, it looks like a decent unit, a bit large for me. (450 gals) and too deep. But then again, I'm only 5' 6"

Hope that helps....
Title: Re: Anybody own an ARCTIC spa or tried one out???
Post by: stuart on June 06, 2005, 02:39:35 pm: Quote

Med I actually do see what you're saying and I do agree with you to a large extent... That is why marquis to me is high in the running... Now, if I can change the wood ceder cabinent option we might be all set... But but but I am going to test the sundance and from what I see so far, it might be the bell ringer... the maxxus version that is...

does anybody own one of these

Explain the "wood cedar cabinet option"? Did they show you all of the options?
Title: Re: Arctic Spa, Marq Epic, HS Envoy & SD Maxxus Re
Post by: spa on June 09, 2005, 03:35:47 pm: if you like the d1, take a test at the arctic kodiak model. it will blow the di away.
Title: Re: Arctic Spa, Marq Epic, HS Envoy & SD Maxxus Re
Post by: spa on June 09, 2005, 03:37:17 pm: also look at the klondiker. it made almost like the d1 but better. by the way i agree about the 80and 90 colours.

raj
Title: Re: Arctic Spa, Marq Epic, HS Envoy & SD Maxxus Re
Post by: shabba34 on June 09, 2005, 05:48:38 pm: Quote
also look at the klondiker. it made almost like the d1 but better. by the way i agree about the 80and 90 colours.

raj
I think the wet testing customer can determine the validity of that claim ::) ::)
Title: Re: Arctic Spa, Marq Epic, HS Envoy & SD Maxxus Re
Post by: shabba34 on June 09, 2005, 05:49:33 pm: Quote
if you like the d1, take a test at the arctic kodiak model. it will blow the di away.
Dito to my last comment.
Title: Re: Arctic Spa, Marq Epic, HS Envoy & SD Maxxus Re
Post by: Bug on June 12, 2005, 08:57:11 pm: Hi all, I am new to all of this, my husband has been dragging me around for over a year wet-testing looking for the perfect tub. We tried Arctic, we liked it overall, but seemed a bit shallow to my husband. The water level came only above his chest and he is not a tall man. The yukon model, although we just sat in a dry tub seemed the deepest, and also it was really expensive. we have wet tested so many tubs, I can't even remember which one I liked the best. We are now looking at maxxus by Sundance. I hope he makes up his mind.
Title: Re: Arctic Spa, Marq Epic, HS Envoy & SD Maxxus Re
Post by: Lori on June 13, 2005, 06:41:30 am: Hence the reason I suggest people take a notebook and pen with them to wet test! Then you can write down your first impressions, and weeks later, you can remember them!!!
Title: Re: Arctic Spa, Marq Epic, HS Envoy & SD Maxxus Re
Post by: Mo60 on June 13, 2005, 04:37:22 pm: Arctic, etc., etc., and the question goes on. I have owned an Artic Avlanche for about 4 months now. The construction is very good, the performance if good and it has a lounger that can be used from either side with different depth seats depending on the side. Like all spas, you have to play with the water valves a while to really know what it will do. We have the microban surface in a rather netural tone and like the nonslip surface a lot. We are here in the heartland, just north of Kansas City. Our dealer is from a small town in Kansas. Unlike most I read about on here, they are very low pressure, customer centered. Maybe it's being from the midwest that they don't have the attitude the northern neighbor dealers who get talked about must have. I had a Hot Springs spa before and thought it was good then, but I like this one much better. I don't believe anyone can make the better than the rest of the world claim and stand on that forever and ever. Get a quality product, a model that fits (we went to buy one, tested it and changed models) and a dealer that you feel is fair and concerned about customer satisfaction. The Artic is a bit noiser than my old one, but so much more features that it is OK. It does make for fun reading to see folks who have no direct interest in someones purchase get on a real roll about what they should or shouldn't do. I'm just a pleased consumer with an Artic spa and a great honest dealer.
good luck......... ::) ::)
Title: Re: Arctic Spa, Marq Epic, HS Envoy & SD Maxxus Re
Post by: Mendocino101 on June 13, 2005, 05:06:09 pm: Quote
Arctic, etc., etc., and the question goes on. I have owned an Artic Avlanche for about 4 months now. The construction is very good, the performance if good and it has a lounger that can be used from either side with different depth seats depending on the side. Like all spas, you have to play with the water valves a while to really know what it will do. We have the microban surface in a rather netural tone and like the nonslip surface a lot. We are here in the heartland, just north of Kansas City. Our dealer is from a small town in Kansas. Unlike most I read about on here, they are very low pressure, customer centered. Maybe it's being from the midwest that they don't have the attitude the northern neighbor dealers who get talked about must have. I had a Hot Springs spa before and thought it was good then, but I like this one much better. I don't believe anyone can make the better than the rest of the world claim and stand on that forever and ever. Get a quality product, a model that fits (we went to buy one, tested it and changed models) and a dealer that you feel is fair and concerned about customer satisfaction. The Artic is a bit noiser than my old one, but so much more features that it is OK. It does make for fun reading to see folks who have no direct interest in someones purchase get on a real roll about what they should or shouldn't do. I'm just a pleased consumer with an Artic spa and a great honest dealer.
good luck......... ::) ::)

That is really good to hear....Enjoy the new spa for many years to come.....nice post....
Title: Re: Arctic Spa, Marq Epic, HS Envoy & SD Maxxus Re
Post by: fatman on June 13, 2005, 07:35:45 pm: I recently emailed a gentleman who has owned his Arctic for 4 1/2 years and asked his opinion now that the honeymoon is well over with. (This is one of the people listed in the review section) In particular I asked him about the cover and whether or not he has had to replace it. He replied that not only is it not waterlogged, it hasn't absorbed any water!. Even better than that, he mentioned that somehow it got a small tear and Arctic offered to replace it for free! I believe it has been mentioned on this forum by customers and dealers that most covers have to be replaced after 3 or 4 years because they are waterlogged. Since Arctic makes their own covers I think it speaks very well of them. The ability of the Arctic cover to sustain the weight of 12 people at one time has been....let's say.... frowned upon or at least made fun of by a few people too. I can't figure out why........ Isn't strength a good thing?
Title: Re: Arctic Spa, Marq Epic, HS Envoy & SD Maxxus Re
Post by: Steve on June 13, 2005, 08:25:14 pm: Quote
The ability of the Arctic cover to sustain the weight of 12 people at one time has been....let's say.... frowned upon or at least made fun of by a few people too. I can't figure out why........ Isn't strength a good thing?

As many of us have stated many times, the cover is critical in heat retention and adds to the energy efficiency of the spa. To flip it back to you, does having the ability to hold 12 people create a product that is more energy efficient than another?

I believe Arctic makes a good cover and I doubt you'll find too many arguments there. I believe this cover is sold as an additional upgrade though. The question has always been their over zealous marketing. 12 people on a cover...who cares? These aren't designed to party on. I bet I could build a cover to park a Chevy on but does that mean you can handle it easily and will it prevent heat loss? I'm not selling it that way but who knows? That's not what they’re focusing their marketing on is it? ???

Heating without a heater and the Forever Floor that doesn't require any type of base since it's "built in". I've seen two different Arctic salespeople in the past week contradict each other with this one feature. Most spas have a sealed floor. I’d like to know why they feel theirs is superior?

I believe they make a decent product but I find their marketing objectionable and questionable and quite often over the top of what constitutes a reasonable purchase based on important factors.

Hopefully, that answers your question...

Steve
Title: Re: Arctic Spa, Marq Epic, HS Envoy & SD Maxxus Re
Post by: stabone on June 13, 2005, 08:54:00 pm: Steve, the cover is designed to be a better insulator, not get water logged, (because it is molded not cut) and also be able to handle heavy snow falls. I see alot of spa covers that sage in the middle from weight on them over time. That is why you should care, standing on top is a demo of the strenght. I can't wait till your manufactures start coming out with comparable covers and laugh at you as your stance changes. I do not hear Arctic customers complaining about the cover weigh, and in most cases our covers are lighter because they are not getting water logged like others. And very happy they are not replacing covers every couple years or have to buy a upgraded cover.
Title: Re: Arctic Spa, Marq Epic, HS Envoy & SD Maxxus Re
Post by: fatman on June 13, 2005, 09:12:34 pm: Overzealous marketing? Maybe. The way I see it is that Arctic hot tubs are truly built for harsh Canadian winters and everybody knows that Canada has much worse winters than the U.S. I can see why Arctic gets a bad name on this forum. It looks bad in everyones eyes when you have a smart alec Arctic rep posting from time to time when it is convenient to do so. No argument there. But I still maintain that Arctic builds a very solid product. As far as the cover goes, is there anyone on this forum who wouldn't want a cover that doesn't get waterlogged, retains heat and is stronger than it needs to be? In other words, if your cover didn't wear out, would you complain about it? I think not.
Title: Re: Arctic Spa, Marq Epic, HS Envoy & SD Maxxus Re
Post by: Steve on June 13, 2005, 09:40:07 pm: Quote
Steve, the cover is designed to be a better insulator, not get water logged, (because it is molded not cut) and also be able to handle heavy snow falls. I see alot of spa covers that sage in the middle from weight on them over time. That is why you should care, standing on top is a demo of the strenght. I can't wait till your manufactures start coming out with comparable covers and laugh at you as your stance changes. I do not hear Arctic customers complaining about the cover weigh, and in most cases our covers are lighter because they are not getting water logged like others. And very happy they are not replacing covers every couple years or have to buy a upgraded cover.

So do I understand correctly that these covers never absorb water? What is the barrier within the cover that prevents moisture from penetrating it? I was unaware it was sold as a cover that lasts forever?

For the record...you'll never see me standing on a cover…EVER! Yes, at Hydropool we have a 5-4" tapered cover that would easily handle my 165lb frame ;) but my 3-2" cover that I had with Beachcomber was never an issue either in northern Alberta with regards to snow load. Moot point really... as long as it can keep small children from falling in and it prevents them from drowning! The rest is hype and marketing whether you see that or not. I don’t expect you to Stabby as you work for the company. ;)

Steve
Title: Re: Arctic Spa, Marq Epic, HS Envoy & SD Maxxus Re
Post by: Mendocino101 on June 13, 2005, 09:41:04 pm: Hey Fatman,

I agree with just about your whole post ....They are many truths in it ... Arctic builds a good spa and does get knocked when they show up to post when only its convenient ... I think what Steve asked is very relevant and that is is it more energy efficient if the answer is YES than its a good thing ....I would also think that at some point in the build process you can reach a point of diminishing returns .....I have no Arctic dealer near me so I have not seen one in person....My own take on them from I have read is they build a good tub and market it very aggressively .....nothiing wrong with that ..... but they also appear to be very pricey ....If a person wants to spend more ...I am sure you can get a comparable type cover for most any spa and lets say that it is a $ 300.00 upgrade and the spa you are looking at is already $2000.00 less than the Aritic...spend the 300.00 get the cover and you should be happy ....The one thing I heard very little about with the Arctic is the therapy and if it does anything that is unique ....I am not in any way putting them down ...only suggesting that they are a well built but that you will pay for it and for what you are paying in additional costs is there a real benefit to it ....If I am wrong about the cost and they are in-line with a comparable Sun dance or Marquis or Hot Spring or any other spa than they are worth a look .....
Title: Re: Arctic Spa, Marq Epic, HS Envoy & SD Maxxus Re
Post by: Steve on June 13, 2005, 09:45:04 pm: Quote
Overzealous marketing? Maybe. The way I see it is that Arctic hot tubs are truly built for harsh Canadian winters and everybody knows that Canada has much worse winters than the U.S. I can see why Arctic gets a bad name on this forum. It looks bad in everyones eyes when you have a smart alec Arctic rep posting from time to time when it is convenient to do so. No argument there. But I still maintain that Arctic builds a very solid product. As far as the cover goes, is there anyone on this forum who wouldn't want a cover that doesn't get waterlogged, retains heat and is stronger than it needs to be? In other words, if your cover didn't wear out, would you complain about it? I think not.

I can name 25 spas that are built for Canadian winters. Again...M A R K E T I N G!! Does a spa have to built in Canada to meet the needs? If you think so, you'd be wrong.

I agree...Arctic builds a decent product. That has never been questioned by me, but I could show you many covers that are overbuilt and will withstand any winter I've been through here.

I will question the ability of this cover to never absorb water but I'll wait to get clarification from Stabby before I address that. ;)

Steve
Title: Re: Arctic Spa, Marq Epic, HS Envoy & SD Maxxus Re
Post by: Gomboman on June 13, 2005, 10:13:22 pm: Nice information here but what happened to O-Ren_Ishi_I? He made it exciting here for a couple of days...............
Title: Re: Arctic Spa, Marq Epic, HS Envoy & SD Maxxus Re
Post by: J._McD on June 13, 2005, 11:45:45 pm: I think he got smoked out. ;D
Title: Re: Arctic Spa, Marq Epic, HS Envoy & SD Maxxus Re
Post by: stabone on June 14, 2005, 12:00:49 am: 1) I do not work for Arctic. I am a family owned pool construction and plumbing company. We have 2 retail stores where we sell Arctic. We sold Jacuzzi for 15 years, and have been selling Arctic 5 years this August. We love the tubs, and the company. We service all brands, which gives us a good perspective on other brands of tubs. (Good and Bad)

2) I never said, the covers will never get water logged. Steve you love to try to twist everything by wording to make your points, which probly makes you a good salesman, but very frustrating to debate with.
The covers are molded not cut like all other covers that I am aware of. This does PROLONG the life of the cover, and if you haven't seen alot of standard covers that hold water in the center because they are saging, then you need to get out of the showroom, and see some for yourself. Again, why do you call 5/4 inches of insulation over kill for a cover, yet it is not enough insulation to retain heat around the rest of the perimeter of a tub? ( I don't mean you only Steve, but others on this forum in general.

3) As for me coming on here when it is convenient, it is the busy season, not all of us are in a showroom all day. I don't have alot time or computer access building swimming pools. And until I find a way for this to pay the bill I will have to check in when it is "convient" for me to do so!!!!

4) Steve, I enjoy reading your post and respect alot of what you say. Yet I think because you are in such close competition with Arctic that you are very biased and quick to be negative about Arctic. As well as most others on here that, ban-wagon the popular opinion on this forum, without really having the hands on experience with the products they are talking about, to have an honest opinion about them.
Title: Re: Arctic Spa, Marq Epic, HS Envoy & SD Maxxus Re
Post by: Steve on June 14, 2005, 12:20:46 am: Quote
I never said, the covers will never get water logged. Steve you love to try to twist everything by wording to make your points, which probly makes you a good salesman, but very frustrating to debate with.
The covers are molded not cut like all other covers that I am aware of. This does PROLONG the life of the cover,

I appreciate you taking the time Stabone to debate me even though I'm a bit of an a$$! ;D

You're making this real easy for me though...

Here's 2 quotes of yours...
"Steve, the cover is designed to be a better insulator, not get water logged, (because it is molded not cut) and also be able to handle heavy snow falls."

I don't believe you said anything about the cover having a "prolonged life" but instead NOT GET WATER LOGGED!

Also...
"As far as the cover goes, is there anyone on this forum who wouldn't want a cover that doesn't get waterlogged, retains heat and is stronger than it needs to be?"

Again, I didn't see the word PROLONGED but rather the words, DOESN'T GET WATER LOGGED.

This has nothing to do with my perception of the quality of Arctic or anything you're describing. It has everything to do with you contradicting yourself completely in the last 2 posts. ???

You see that I have "twisted" nothing but I am using your exact words. Please don't blame me for your lack of clarity in these posts. Does the cover not get water logged or is the life prolonged? These are 2 distinctly different things Stabby!

I do except apologies... ::)

Steve
Title: Re: Arctic Spa, Marq Epic, HS Envoy & SD Maxxus Re
Post by: stabone on June 14, 2005, 12:43:21 am: Steve, thank you for proving my point, and yes you are an ASS!!! This is the type of non-sense I am talking about, it is so stupid to debate like this, I did not say it in that context nor do I sell the cover under the pretext that the cover will never under any circumstance get waterlogged. You could act like a man, and ask me if that was what I ment by what I said. But you play these school girl games. What is your point for this, to make Arctic guys look bad, I think most peole will see what you are trying to do!! Shame on you.

I said they are designed to retain heat and not get waterlogged, and hold heavy snowfall. Which they are, and unlike your covers that are cut on the edges, ours are molded so they do not get water logged. ( As easily as other covers)
And you twisted it to sound like I made a claim that an Arctic Cover will never get waterlogged, It is possible at some point in time our covers can get water logged, they are designed not to get water logged as easily as other covers!

I will personally warranty them against waterlogging or breaking for 5 years, would you do the same with yours??

You will get an appoligy from me sometime between now and when hell freezes over. Yours Truly, Chad

I hope the people on this site trying to research tubs, and really find out what are good products, can sift through the riff-raff on this forum and get answers to their questions, Stuart maybe you are right, this type of banter is pointless and of no benefit to anyone. Take this site for what it is, look for tubs and dealers that you feel comfortable with, and most opinions on hear are bias to a brand for personal reasons. ( Mine included) I am sure to the dismay of the millions,,, and millions of my fans out there, this is my last post!!! GOOD NIGHT NOW
Title: Re: Arctic Spa, Marq Epic, HS Envoy & SD Maxxus Re
Post by: Steve on June 14, 2005, 11:19:39 am: Quote
I did not say it in that context nor do I sell the cover under the pretext that the cover will never under any circumstance get waterlogged.

LOL! Out of context? Out of context? :D I quoted the entire sentence in both instances! Out of context? I wonder who it is playing mind games here?

This is the sort of BS that we should try and eliminate when a salesman comes here and makes false claims with their product. You brought it up...I just questioned it is all... ::)

It was very intersting that you finally added " ( As easily as other covers)" after all of that! I bet your sales tactics work well on the consumers though right? ;)

Steve