Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Steve on May 27, 2005, 12:16:04 pm
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Bill has brought up an interesting point where the following manufacturers will not honor warranty work caused by the use of chlorine pucks (trichlor). They are as follows:
-HotSpring (which I knew)
-Caldera
-Sundance
-Jacuzzi Premium
-Marquis
-D1
Can owners or dealers of these products confirm this? ???
I just don't have the time to research this statement so I'm taking the easy way out! ;D
Steve
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I don't know about 'dealers' experience but the Sundance 2005 880 Owners' Manual (Maxxus, et al.) states:
IMPORTANT: Do not use chlorine tablets (Trichlor) in your hot tub. This chemical can have an extremely corrosive effect on certain materials in the hot tub. Damage caused by use of this chemical, or improper use of any chemicals, is not covered under the hot tub’s warranty.
Thus, I would assume any chemical damage to any part of the spa would be assumed by SD to be caused by the trichlor unless you could prove otherwise! :)
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The bigger question I have is, why would you ever use tri-chlor pucks on your spa? Even if it doesn't effect the shell it will destroy the plastic in the jets over time!
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Not sure about the other spas, but here is what Vita Spa warranty sais.
" NEVER USE CHLORINE TABLETS (TRICHLOR) IN YOUR SPA. This chemical can have an extremely corrosive effect on certain materials in the spa. Damage caused by the use of Trichlor or acids is not covered under the spa warranty." 8)
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This is from Jacuzzi Premium:
CAUTION: Do not use chlorine tablets (Trichlor) in your spa. This
chemical can have an extremely corrosive effect on certain materials
in the spa. Damage caused by use of this chemical, or improper
use of any chemicals, is not covered under the spa's warranty.
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The stuff they grow now is a lot stronger than what we had in the 70's, so it may be corrossive to your brain cells... I mean spa shell.... Wait a minute, what forum is this.... 8)
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Um, as far as *I* know, their's no warranty on your brain cells. At least, I don't have one. If I did, I'd be rich. :)
Anyhoo, I'm assuming from this thread and other discussion here that it's not all lawyer banter [where everything under the sun is a violation of the warranty], but that trichlor is really a *bad thing* for a spa. Not so?
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So.
I have the same warning as posted above in my 2003 owners manual. I'd assume that tri chlor is bad for spas, or the warning wouldn't specifically mention tri chlor.
Proceed at your own risk.
Brewman
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Bad stuff for tubs.
Also bad stuff for tubs: Bromine tablets. They contain almost half chlorine.
:(
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Simply put, don't use tri-chlor, hydrogen peroxide or muriatic acids for any water chemisty purpose in any Hot Tub.
This question is appropriate and Stuart's statement emphasizes the impact. "Why use tri-chlor at all...?"
It is about self detructive behavior or ignorance when it comes to using "generic" solutions to water chemistry without knowing about the consequences. Some people are just smarter than the average bear out there and insist on generic solutions because they are not going to be "hoodwinked" into using high priced chemicals when cheaper solutions are available.
We are all ignorant about something, and when somebody knows a little bit about something, they walk and talk like a know it all expert.
Fact of the matter is, the manufacturer is being held accountable and responsible for this ignorance and they clearly state it in the warranty. Tri-chlor will VOID your warranty. But that is not good enough because I have seen spa sellers sell tri-chlor to customer for use in their hot tubs. So this is IMPORTANT. >:(
When we all get our spas for the first time, what do we know about water chemistry? Only what we learn and there is a lot of bad advice out there.
I think this could be come a HOT TOPIC about "What Does Your Warranty Say" and it could be very educational.
When people shop, maybe you too, they all hear or ask, tell me about your warranty. The repsonse is spontaeneous, 10, 7, 5, 5, and 5 for whatever that means. What about 10 years ago when you heard 25 years and even today "lifetime". Why do we measure warranties this way.
The TRUTH BE KNOWN, what they give you in numbers, they take away with words, Exclusions, Limitations, Pro-rations etc. Getting a copy of the warranty to read and understand never seems to dawn on the shopper untill you ask them "why not ask for a copy"?
Let's review your warranty exclusions, limitations, and prorations. What does your warranty say.
There is one warranty out there that gives the stated 10 yrs on structure, 7 years on the surface, etc. except the 7 years is not valid unless, and it clearly states, "if' the structure (10 year section) fails. Can you imagine that one little word "IF" makes 7 = 0
WHAT DOES YOUR WARRANTY SAY?? ???
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We are all ignorant about something,
I didn't know that....
;)
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Simply put, don't use tri-chlor, hydrogen peroxide or muriatic acids for any water chemisty purpose in any Hot Tub.
This question is appropriate and Stuart's statement emphasizes the impact. "Why use tri-chlor at all...?"
It is about self detructive behavior or ignorance when it comes to using "generic" solutions to water chemistry without knowing about the consequences. Some people are just smarter than the average bear out there and insist on generic solutions because they are not going to be "hoodwinked" into using high priced chemicals when cheaper solutions are available.
We are all ignorant about something, and when somebody knows a little bit about something, they walk and talk like a know it all expert.
Fact of the matter is, the manufacturer is being held accountable and responsible for this ignorance and they clearly state it in the warranty. Tri-chlor will VOID your warranty. But that is not good enough because I have seen spa sellers sell tri-chlor to customer for use in their hot tubs. So this is IMPORTANT. >:(
When we all get our spas for the first time, what do we know about water chemistry? Only what we learn and there is a lot of bad advice out there.
I think this could be come a HOT TOPIC about "What Does Your Warranty Say" and it could be very educational.
When people shop, maybe you too, they all hear or ask, tell me about your warranty. The repsonse is spontaeneous, 10, 7, 5, 5, and 5 for whatever that means. What about 10 years ago when you heard 25 years and even today "lifetime". Why do we measure warranties this way.
The TRUTH BE KNOWN, what they give you in numbers, they take away with words, Exclusions, Limitations, Pro-rations etc. Getting a copy of the warranty to read and understand never seems to dawn on the shopper untill you ask them "why not ask for a copy"?
Let's review your warranty exclusions, limitations, and prorations. What does your warranty say.
There is one warranty out there that gives the stated 10 yrs on structure, 7 years on the surface, etc. except the 7 years is not valid unless, and it clearly states, "if' the structure (10 year section) fails. Can you imagine that one little word "IF" makes 7 = 0
WHAT DOES YOUR WARRANTY SAY?? ???
Another solution would be to buy a tub that DOESN'T have a page full of Exclusions, Limitations, Pro-rations etc. 8)
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Bad stuff for tubs.
Also bad stuff for tubs: Bromine tablets. They contain almost half chlorine.
:(
Huh? Do you mean all bromine? Or just 'bromine tablets''? Like Cl tables are really trichlor and are the bad ones... ?
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Another solution would be to buy a tub that DOESN'T have a page full of Exclusions, Limitations, Pro-rations etc. 8)
And that would be which brand?
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And that would be which brand?
Beachcomber for one...and there may be others that I am not aware of?
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Every spa manufactuer has the typical "abuse" limitations and the mention of not being able to drive a semi over it, but what we're talking about here isn't that. Let's not broadstroke this to hide the facts.
We're talking loopholes to protect the manufacturer by the prevention of covering parts and labor if it's deemed that acidic water was the cause.
Again, my question is without the historical records and data of water care of a given spa, who is determining this and what are they basing their findings on? I'll do you the favor of answering my own question...they look at the part and say..."yeppers...looks like a low pH problem to me! Somebody grab the stamp that says NOT COVERED BY MANUFACTURER DUE TO NEGLECT".
If I ran a business that way and guessed about the possible cause of premeture failure of any given part, my reputation would be that of Cal Spa. I choose not work for these companies myself. And yes...Hydropool has exclusions as does Beachcomber, but it's not relative to what we're discussing here.
Steve
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As a dealer, we pretty much can tell freeze fractures from manufacturers defects in material or workmanship. Obviously, this is not a warrantable situation, OR IS IT? ??? ???
There are some companies that will cover it, while others will not, and why should they? How does your warranty hold up under these circumstances? ???
Is there anyone out there that can identify an "IF" in their surface warranty? ??? ??? (If you do find it don't get rattled, the industry makes some pretty good shells today, but then why should it be in the warranty?)
How long is the warranty on your cabinet?
There is no right or wrong answer here, just what the warranty says.
If you think about it, warranty repairs are done by the dealer in the field and then sent to the factory for warranty consideration, who pays for the part when it is put in and how do they get their money back.
Did anybody mention dealer services, how does a manufacturer's warranty work? ??? ???
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If I ran a business that way and guessed about the possible cause of premeture failure of any given part, my reputation would be that of Cal Spa.
True, but many companies don't warrant chemistry related damage and yet still have very good reputations for warranty coverage (Hot Springs, Sundance, etc.). Using logic, we can therefore conclude that they do not use this as a loophole to rubber stamp parts as "not covered". They use it to cement the understanding of the problems you can run into chemstry wise and only deny parts that are obiviously abused, thus avoiding the Cal Spas reputation.
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Agreed.
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When you talk about trichlor are you talking about putting pucks in your basket, using them in a floating dispenser or ANY trichlor product. My dealer sold me a floater a few weeks ago and my water's never been more clear, but there has to be a better way if I'm going to damage my tub.
I've got a Beachcomber, but warranty or not, who wants to go through the nightmare of replacing part or all of your whole tub prematurely?
What I don't get, is that the dispenser has Beachcomber's logo right on it. How on earth can a manufacturer sell a product that when used as directed, causes damage to the manufacturer's own tub?
In fact I just checked my spa and the underside of the cover already has discoloration and its only a month old. I always boost with the cover off, so is this normal, or is it the trichlor?
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Any manufacturer that doesn't list an exclusion to Tri-Chlor is dishonest and doing a disservice to the customer who might use Tri-Chlor to sanitize their spa. Oh and by the way, why is it so easy to pull up these warranties:
Marquis
Hot Springs
D-1
Sundance
Jacuzzi
etc.? Maybe because their honest about their warranties. Whoever started this conversation I bet sells a spa with a warranty that you have to purchase before seing.
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Any manufacturer that doesn't list an exclusion to Tri-Chlor is dishonest and doing a disservice to the customer who might use Tri-Chlor to sanitize their spa. Oh and by the way, why is it so easy to pull up these warranties:
Marquis
Hot Springs
D-1
Sundance
Jacuzzi
etc.? Maybe because their honest about their warranties. Whoever started this conversation I bet sells a spa with a warranty that you have to purchase before seeing.
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Whoever started this conversation I bet sells a spa with a warranty that you have to purchase before seeing.
You would be incorrect in that inexperienced assumption. ::)
So you are saying that these manufacturers that don't list it are being dishonest because they will pay for parts and labor during their warranty period? Give your head a shake...
Steve
P.S. For the record, I don't suggest the use of trichlor pucks in a spa but that's not what we're talking about here...
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Most of the reputable spa manufacturers cover component damage due to chemicals...just for marketing purposes. It's all in the wording...
Ex. "against any malfunction or defect"
vs. "-against malfunctions due to
defects in material and workmanship"
Big difference.
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Wait - are you saying not to use bromine? Is that why my Cal Spa jets keep falling out?
If not Chlorine or Bromine what?