Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: wmccall on May 12, 2005, 07:52:41 am
-
I've been hearing lots of references to Microban from the home remodeling industry. I've heard of bathtubs and showers made with the stuff. If ever there was a place to say whether Microban was worth it or not, that would be it.
-
My opinion is this whole bacteria phobia thing is way overblown. If we were that sensitive to these critters, the human race would have died out long ago.
I'm talking about all the anti bacteria soaps, cutting boards, counters, etc.... Just wash.
I've heard annecdotal evidence that children raised in such antiseptic environments are more prone to infections due to their lack of resistance from not being exposed to the relatively harmless bacteria we encounter daily.
The chemicals we use in our spas work as intended if used correctly.
Brewman
-
Brew - that's absolutely right. All these antibacterial soaps and lotions are actually more harmful in the long run.
We simply do not eat enough dirt anymore.
Jc
-
There are studies out there that have shown children raised on farms have among the strongest immune systems. They say there is a direct correlation between exposure on the farm and heathly immune systems.
-
Microban belongs in the bathroom.
It's all about what people buy, or is it, what we can sell to people who didn't know they needed it until now, and then, you give them a good reason why they need it so they will recognize how lucky they have been to get this far without it, then it becomes obvious to them why they should have it even if they never needed it before.
I think it's called, mar-ket-ing si-kol-o-geee.
It is absolutely amazing how predictable we are as human beings, but why it is so darn hard to sell spas to people who think you are there just to take there money and trick them into thinking what your selling is really better than the other one they looked at. But then, there was that one with microban.
People used to come in thinking microban was really what the "salesman" said it was and they didn't need chemicals in there spa. I found that utterly amazing.
-
Part of my job entails specifying plumbing fixtures. Microban is used in lots of acrylic shower enclosures, etc. What the manufacturers don't tell the consumer is that the anti-microbial affect of the microban is depleted in about 5 years.
txwillie
-
Brew,
I agree with you, I avoid all the anti-bacteria cleaning products with one exception. I do a lot of cooking with fresh raw chicken, pork and beef. If I'm preparing something that requires extensive handling of those meats beyond opening a package and throwing it in a pot, I will wash with anti-bacterial soap. (The normal soap sits right beside it in the sink. )
I was looking at mildew in my shower this morning and thought if Microban could stop that, then they have something.
TXWi - I was wondering about that.
-
I went to the microban website. FAQ's say it's anti-microbial properties last "the useful lifetime of the fixture". That is NOT what the plumbing fixture manufacturers say. Sloan (flush valves) offers a microban coating option for the handles. Their literature says the handles should be replaced every 5 years to maintain the effectiveness of the microban coating. BTW, I've never seen a microban coated flushometer handle anywhere, it's just hokey. Aquarius, Aqua Glass, etc. (shower manufacturers) say the same thing.
txwillie
-
Well I disagree with some of you here. In my line of work, I use antibacterial solution every day. It has a high alcohol concentration and kills of or atleast gives me a sense of belief that it is killing off the critters that I come into contact with.
I deal with people in my area of patrol with Hep C, HIV, TB, believe it or not even scabies runs rampit in my area. I am forced to come into contact with these people and I always carry a tube of anti bacteria lotion. In fact in Hamilton Ontario where I live, you are required to squirt and wipe your hands when you step into any hospital.
Now last week I was involved in an incident and got spit in the eye by and HIV, Hep C person. I instantly stressed out. I ran into the drug store, where I was and got an eye wash kit. I also wiped anti bacterial around my face.
When I went to the hospital to get tested the doctor said HIV no worries with spit but Hep C a little more of a concern. So every other month for the next year, I have to go get tested.
See why I am so obsessed with anti bacteria. Always be careful, and honestly its better than doing nothing. People on the farm most likely have better immune systems because they dont interact in the big city where gross critters have time to flourish.
-
Anti Bacterial products protect against bacteria- not viruses. HIV is a virus, so microban, or anti bacterial soap would be innefective against it (too bad it's not that simple). Not sure about Hep. C, TB, or scabies.
If they are bacterial then your solutions may help.
Plus you are in an occupation that clearly puts you at a much higher risk than the general population. My opinion stands for the general household stuff.
People in the medical profession, lab techs, police officers, etc.. are in a different category.
Brewman
-
I realize the difference, but if you can get blood, spit and so on off quickly using a strong cleaning agent, it helps reduce the risk of absorbing into the body. I didnt mean to claim that anti bacterial products prevent disease but it sure it nice to know when you dont have the option of washing right then and there, you do have a product that is very strong and sanitary.
I get blood on me quite often as does EMS (ambulance) people and we all use this stuff likes its going out of style. I just think maybe it provides an immediate opportunity to wipe yourself down and clean your skin with.
I use anti bacterial to clean the kitchen and especially now with a child, I am hypersensitive to germs and bacteria growth in the house. I strongly support the uses of the products. My artic tub shell is "Formulated with Microban antibacterial finish". I also have ordered the microban filters.
-
It's a no-brainer that those who come in contact with blood should be using antibacterial agents to protect themselves...but using anti-bacterial soaps in a healthy home environment? Come on!! That's marketing, not science.
http://www.tufts.edu/med/apua/Pubs/Articles/EID6_01.pdf
This link takes you to a paper from Tufts University -- please take a peek at the short, one paragraph introduction cautioning AGAINST anti-bacterial products in the home.
I will not EVER expose my young children to antibacterial products unless there's a good reason to do so (after visiting the the petting zoo, for instance, when soap and water isn't readily available).
I am afraid of the monster, antibiotic resistent bugs we'll all have to live with in the future after all the MARKETING motivated use of antibacterial agents.
I would never consider a spa with microban... and we use Ivory soap in my house :)
-
I'd like to relate a true life experience relating to what moviebuff2 just said.
My daughter has cystic fibrosis, and as a result, is prone to chronic lung infections (bacterial). She is on a daily regimin of very strong (read: $$$$$$$$$$) antibiotics which we administer intravenously. Her doctor has to constantly rotate these antibiotics to avoid the bacteria growing resistant to them. Over the past decade or so, we've gone from relativley mild oral antibiotics, to very strong IV antibiotics. So the resistance thing is very real.
I also strongly believe that doctors who prescribe these meds for virus' (i.e. common colds) is also aggravating this problem. Believe me when I tell you that the power and cost of these medicines go very hand in hand.
Brewman
-
wow good article. Something to lear here. Thanks for the input.
-
Brewman,
Sorry to hear about your daughter! You are absolutely correct AND the pharmaceutical companies have to develop stronger ones all the time.
Although I do use antibacterial soaps for skin washing, I read somewhere they do not work on inanimate objects (counters and such) I don't remember why though. Also there needs to be a contact time with the soap in order for it to work - 15 seconds at least. There is also a correct way to wash your hands and most people ignore this (I do too unless I touch a messy piece of medical equipment). Next time you wash your hands count how long you do - I bet most people wash for only 5 seconds or so.
For all of you out there that want a TRUELY disinfected counter or anything, the best solution is household bleach! Put it into a spray bottle of 1 part bleach and 9 parts water. Let it sit on the surface for 10 minutes, then wipe it off. There isn't anything that can survive that amount of chlorine for that amount of time, this is what wer're told in a hospital setting.
-
Thanks, Vinny. She's doing quite well with managing her medical issues. Thank goodness we have good insurance, though!
In my beermaking I often use chlorine bleach as a sanitizer. If I recall, only 2 or 3 tablespoons mixed in 5 gallons of water is effective. Powerful stuff indeed.
Brewman
-
Their literature says the handles should be replaced every 5 years to maintain the effectiveness of the microban coating. BTW, I've never seen a microban coated flushometer handle anywhere,
txwillie
OK willie, rather than a coated flushometer handle, just set your customers up with infared so they don't have to touch nothin but there willy. ;)
-
Plus, people don't leave the antibacterial soaps and such on long enough to kill all of the bacteria so it mutates and gets stronger! I don't use them either!! I am a nurse and use them in the Hospital setting but will not in my home. there is such a germphobia!!
-
Government watchdogs do not allow Lucite (one of two manufacturers's of acrylic sheets that supply spa manufacturers) to make any claims regarding the effectiveness of MicroBan in there acrylic products.
This is because there is no clinical evidence to support a claim that acrylic with microban will stop bacteria in a spa any more effectively than acrylic that hasd not been treated with MicroBan.
This however does not stop salepersons working for retailers from making these claims or inuendos. Too bad.
Acrylic is not pourus. So why bother mixing it with an anti bacterial agent?
This link has some info. It is from Lucites competitor so take it with a grain of salt:
http://www.aristechacrylic.com/spas/index.html
On the right, click on Q &A about MicroBan
HTM
-
If anything, would having something like microban make some people a bit less lax in their sanitation routine?
"I don't have to worry so much about that pesky (insert favorite sanitize routine here) since my microban will keep the critters at bay".
Just a thought.
Brewman
-
Brewman,
I think that only perhaps if someone was really oversold on it.....could that thought ever cross someones mind....we only mention it when we are asked and our answer is it is highly debatable if it has any real benefit regarding Bactria growth ....but one thing for sure, is it makes the colors richer in those that that use it....
-
I agree with Mendo, they would have to be really oversold on the concept. If I remember right, my dealer said it might help inhibit bacteria growth on the surface of the tub, which might help keep the waterline and just above the waterline cleaner. I know he didn't represent it as doing anything with the water.
-
Bill,
Above the water line is the only thing I have heard where it "may" in fact help with bacteria growth ... I am not sure of how much of a real issue this is .... but if it does aid that would be where ....
-
"Microban" is a chemical that is impregnated into the acrylic during manufacturing process and is commonly used in other forms of plastics. The concept of "microban" is to inhibit the attachment of bacteria.
In the words of "Microbans" General Counsel, "microban additives....protected the product rather than the user. Similarly, the claims of ****** **** state specifically that they protect the spa(i.e. the product), not the users of the spa."
Although, this is not the way the salesman told the story and thus, it has created substantial confusion evident in this thread on what in fact it really does do.
The EPA is a controlling government body that has infulence over how these things are stated in promotional materials and marketing. It was the EPA that did in fact cause one spa manufacturer to redo all of it's promotional materials and levied a fine against them.
The outlandish claims regarding this specific concept have since diminished if not completely discontinued.
But, the confusion remains based on such incorrect and misleading claims.
Remember, it protects the product, NOT the user.
-
Though our product has Microban acrylic, I do not promote it as I believe talking about bacteria in a sales presentation is a poor choice.
Not only are consumers confused through the sales proccess as it is, but now we throw in the mix the health issues that a hot tub contains bacteria and they're wondering if they really want one at all... :-/
Address their concerns and show them properly how to care for the water and filtration and help them eliminate the concern before it happens.
Steve