Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: drprwnap on April 21, 2005, 04:24:20 pm
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Well, I guess I've got it narrowed down to either a Coleman 706 or a HS Vanguard. I prefer the Coleman because of the lounger with the leg and foot therapy. My wife likes the Vanguard because of Moto-Massage. I don't know which way to go :( :(. Both dealers are good, but I would have to rate the HS dealer better (Coleman dealer is closer). Of course, I don't know which service dept. is better, but it's probably a wash. This is such a big decision, I want it to be right. We've wet tested both models, I think I need to go back to the 706 (wet tested the Vanguard twice). Any comments / suggestions would be welcome and appreciated!
Regards,
drprwnap 8)
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He he, I had the same issue with my wife. We ended up with three wet tests including a back to back.
Don't worry, if your dealer is any good, more tests will be OK!
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Find out which one (if either) have in-house service people. If they use sub-contractors, find out who and ask for references. Find out how long each dealer has carried that particular brand and how many total brands they have sold. This will tell you a great deal more than you might think.
Good luck!
Terminator
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Thanks, Terminator. Both dealers have in-house service people. I know the HS dealer had a different brand of spas at one time. The story I got was that they had D1 and the regonal sales rep pulled out to get D1 into a different store with more locations. Turned out that the smaller dealer sold more spas than the dealer with more locations!! Of course, I don't know how true / untrue this story is. I'm certain they have been a HS dealer for a number of years. I don't know know any history with the Coleman dealer. They have been around awhile, I used to get pool chemicals there. Never looked at thier spas, as I wasn't in the markek at that time.
Hey, nrkissed. How did you get your wife to all the wet tests??? It' like pulling teeth to get mine to go. In fact, she refuses to wet test D1 because she didn't like the salesman.
Regards,
drprwnap 8)
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Tell her the salesman wont be sitting in the tub for the next 12-15 years. A third wet test may add something to the mix that will help clarify the confusion.
There is not a bad choice among the three.
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I'd suggest you wet test both spas on the same afternoon to mzximize your comparative ability. :P
I know I would do my best to not only determine which is best for me but ALSO be SURE my wife was on board with the decision cause I'd hate to hear for the next 10 years that we got the spa that "I" liked best as opposed the getting the spa that "we" liked best.
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Based upon my reviews of this and other web sites as well as wet testing the HS, I don't think the Coleman is in the same class as the HS. It's like comparing a Ford to a Merceedes. HS is probably the number 1 or 2 largest manufacture of spas. They didn't get there because they make a bad product. That being said if you liked the feel of the coleman better then I'd consider testing some other top 5 names to see if they are any better. (Sundance, Beachcomber, Dimension 1, Master Spas, and Jacuzzi) ( not trying to start anything by not including others)
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Based upon my reviews of this and other web sites as well as wet testing the HS, I don't think the Coleman is in the same class as the HS. It's like comparing a Ford to a Merceedes. HS is probably the number 1 or 2 largest manufacture of spas. They didn't get there because they make a bad product. That being said if you liked the feel of the coleman better then I'd consider testing some other top 5 names to see if they are any better. (Sundance, Beachcomber, Dimension 1, Master Spas, and Jacuzzi) ( not trying to start anything by not including others)
Well this is where I feel compelled to jump in. Drifter you're entitled to your opinion about Coleman Spas, but I'd like to point out it's just an opinion.....You have no facts to back that up and for some reason you seem to think that Coleman makes an inferior product...Shame shame...
I have 11 years of selling and owning Coleman spas. As the veteran Coleman dealer on this board I will speak with absolute candor and honesty about the produst I not only know about, and I have experienced first hand.
drprwnap, the 706 is the top of the Coleman line. It's the spa that I have sitting in my backyard. It's also the spa my co-worker has in her backyard. I love this spa...It is without a doubt the most comfortable spa I've ever soaked in and beacuse of my job I get to try out many spas every year. In fact when we have a person who has a tendency to float like an ice cube in every spa they try, we move them into the 706 or the 705 and they don't float.
The Coleman 706 has an excellent warranty so lets start with that...
Five years on plumbing (including jets and valves and aircontols)
Five years on electrical
Five years on equipment
Five years on labor (that's what the company I work for offers that may vary per dealer)
Seven years on surface
Lifetime on steel frame structure( in 11 years I've never seen a structure defect on any kind)
Coleman spas has excellent dealer support and that's very important to not only the dealer but the consumer as well.
The 706 has 3- 2 1/2 HP two speed pumps powering 53 jets. You were right in your earlier observation about the jets not stinging your skin. The reason for this is that Coleman went to a spine rehabilitation center and got them involved with the placement of the jets. Rather then just putting jets where it was easiest to plumb them they were placed by medical recomendation to hit the pressure points. The concept being massage where it matters.
The filtration is completly programable from the control panel. The Coleman spa has ONE filter and has a skimmer basket on top of that. This skimmer basket will catch 95% of the debree before it gets to the filter. Some of the things I've found in mine...grass, leaves, pine needles, tree seeds, hair ties, bandaids, water logged paper cups, staws, and even olives..... ::) You also have the ability to use a first filter which fits on the top of the skimmer basket and filters down to a much tighter micron than any pleated filter can.
I have three teenagers, last night my oldest had a hottub party with 8 kids. This morning I had my coffee out in the tub and the water was crystal clean. I have extreme useage in my spa and yet I only change my water three times a year. Thats first hand experience how well Coleman spas filtration works.
Coleman 700 series have a galvalume steel frame and a solid ABS pan bottom. This pan bottom seals out the critters and moisture and the steel frame will neaver rust and makes our spas 250% stronger then when we used wood frames.
I could go on and on, but I have to get to work, so I can go on and on there ;)
Please just go with your gut on this one. I'm short 5'4" and yet my favorite seat is the lounger in my 706. I also like the deepest seat with the back contol panel next to it. As far as your wife, perhaps the 705 would be a better fit as that one has a second lounger and it's not as deep as the one in the 706. The 705 has the very same seating as the 706 but, where the shallower wingback seat is they put a lounger.
Good luck in your additional wet tests and know that both brands are excellent and have great warranties behind them so let the wet test be what you base your decision on.
I've been very busy this sping and I'm not on the board as much but please let me know if you have any questions on Coleman spas what so ever.
One more thing....I also sell Jacuzzi Spas and I take care of both a wet model Coleman and Jacuzzi at my store. They get the same amount of useage, I'm using the same sanitizer in both. Based on my FIRST HAND experience the Coleman is not under the Jacuzzi in any way.
Spahappy :D
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Well this is where I feel compelled to jump in. Drifter you're entitled to your opinion about Coleman Spas, but I'd like to point out it's just an opinion.....You have no facts to back that up and for some reason you seem to think that Coleman makes an inferior product...Shame shame...
Spahappy :D
Ummm excuse me! I thought the poster was asking for opinions, comments and suggestions? I didn't realize he was asking for a sales pitch! I merely posted what my thoughts were having been a member here on this board for the last two years. I also spent a great deal of time researching my purchase so I feel that I am somewhat informed on the topic. As for posting facts, I saw none in your post except standard manufacturing specs and your opinion that the water looks clearer! Now if you want to talk about my opinion try posting some facts about where coleman stands in overall sales against HS, Sundance, Jacuzzi, Master Spa, Beechcomber, and or Caldera. Not that overall sales is the deciding factor but if you've spent anytime on this board you'd find that the posts (and interest) on the spas I've listed are probably 5-1 on coleman. I generally see people talking about coleman and comparing them with thermo spas, cal spas and the like. I don't see too many "should I buy HS vs. Coleman or Sundance vs. Coleman" posts. Therefore I feel ok posting my opinion about the product you sell.
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I personally agree with Drifter, but it is just an opinion.
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Wow, is that what I sound like?
:-[
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Drifter's not trying to start anything. He's just stating that a Hot Spring is a better spa than a Coleman, when he hasn't even seen a Coleman in his life.
These Hot Spring cronies are all alike. They use their sales domination as a basis for stating their spa is the best. Phooey blahooey!
Don't forget, that Hot Springs also spends much more in advertising than the competitors, thus attracting more clientele, who are still basically ignorant to the multitude of brands out there. You also get to pay for all that advertising when you purchase a Hot Springs.
As much as I love my Coleman, I won't come on here and call my Coleman a Mercedes compared to Hot Spring's Ford. That's just a baseless statement only made to stir up shit Drifter.
But since you're so opinionated about HS vs. Coleman, please do go into detail about components used in each product that make the HS the Mercedes of the spa world and Coleman only a lowly Ford.
Spahappy's "sales pitch" was a very informative message on the attributes of her spa. Let's hear Hot Springs'. Let's also hear why in the hell you need 5 filters in them, thus adding cost to the buyer down the road. I'd really like to hear the engineering decision this was based on. 5 filters, sheesh!!!
(keeping the pot stirred) :)
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Rick,
I just reread his post and it seemed to me that Drifter gave his opinion (and in a far less acidic way than you just gave yours). I think you might want to switch to decaf.
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bullsheeeeet TUO!!!
The S.O.B. (yeah I'll call drifter that for making such a baseless statement) called a Coleman a Ford and a HS a Mercedes and he's never even seen a Coleman! Sheesh!!!
I didn't do the same, just stood up for Spahappy's description of Coleman, and have only asked for the same from Drifter in describing his HS. Since HS is a Mercedes, he must know something technical about his spa.
And I put out a very good honest question about HS's filter design. Can I get an answer without being called acidic?
Drprwnap, you have to understand when you come onto this forum. It is rife with people like TUO who will stand up for full foam designed spas and then blast anything with a thermopane design.
It's like a good ole boys club here, and people like Spahappy only serve to keep it real here. It's hard though, because there are so many HS disciples here.
"I bought a HS because my neighbor did, because his neighbor did, because his mother in law did, etc. That's the number one reason why people buy HS. IMO"
And I'm already on my second cup of decaf TUO. Maybe I need some prozac or something?
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And I put out a very good honest question about HS's filter design. Can I get an answer without being called acidic?
I'll do both, rick.
First, the acidic part: Boy are you acidic. But, you always have been. Let's call it charm.
Second,
HS filter design. I assume you mean the tri-x filters, which, as far as I know, offer more filtering square footage than any other similarly sized spa in the industry. That was the case a year ago, but maybe other manufacturers have caught up.
Do you mean the design of what they are made of so that they can easily be cleaned in the dishwasher and last something like 7-10years (as opposed to, say, Sundance's replace 1-2 times a year filters)? No, that can't be it because you are smart enough to noodle that one.
How about "why 5 filters instead of one monolithic one"? That one is certainly less obvious, so let's say that's what you mean. Filters clog. Having a distributed system of filters handles errant filtering conditions much better. How?
- You can rotate, on cleanings, the filter on the circulation pump. This particular filter get dirtiest and the ability to swap them around greatly increases the average life of all filters.
- If you get a particularly bad dollop of suntan lotion, kids, teenages, oils, spilled junk, food, whatever, and it clogs up some of the filters, it is cheaper to go out and buy 1 or 2 smaller filters from HS than to shut down the entire spa, remove the single monolithic filter, and have to buy a new one of those. Of course, with the new tri-x it is very hard to actually permanently damage them.
- If a single filter clogs, because it got hit with something, you have others that can pick up the load.
Actually, to think about it, you did not pose any kind of intelligent engineering question, so why don't you rephrase it. You made the BASELESS assumption that hot spring's filter design costs more. As someone who DOES NOT OWN a hot springs, and who seemingly has no information about the new filter offerings, you need to explain YOURSELF, instead of worrying about someone else making a bad car analogy.
So, explain yourself. I go out and buy 5 hot springs tri-x filters that last 10 years and clean with a single spin in the dishwasher, sans all the extra filter cleaners. Now you sit down and tell me, RIGHT NOW, before you do anything else, how that costs more than your spa's filter needs.
Go ahead.
do it.
I'll wait.
-Ed
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Now I'm the bad guy. Spahappy gave a response earlier that was lucid and gave an alternate opinion to Drifter's, which is how it should go here. You then get on the anger wagon and start railing anyone who may not agree with your opinion. I'm not sure how your morning has been so far but I'd recommend staying away from sharp objects.
t.u.o. (charter member of the Good Ole Boys Club)
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t.u.o. (charter member of the Good Ole Boys Club)
How much does membership cost?
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Well this is where I feel compelled to jump in.
Thank you for jumping in. The sales pitch is always appreciated. And I don't mean that tongue-in-cheek, either. Half of this board is disguised sales pitches and it shows integrity to just come out with undisguised marketing.
Lifetime on steel frame structure( in 11 years I've never seen a structure defect on any kind)
As said many times, lifetime means 7 years in most states. The rest is a good warranty, just like most others in the industry, and certainly like hot springs.
The reason for this is that Coleman went to a spine rehabilitation center and got them involved with the placement of the jets. Rather then just putting jets where it was easiest to plumb them they were placed by medical recomendation to hit the pressure points. The concept being massage where it matters.
I thought Sundance did that. They have a very similar argument. In the context of comparison, most quality tubs do that and I hope you aren't sayin Hot Springs just plumbs them where it is easy?? The above, again, might be cut-n-paste, so I won't assume you are actually saying that no other tub manufacturer does this kind of research.
The Coleman spa has ONE filter ... You also have the ability to use a first filter which fits on the top of the skimmer basket and filters down to a much tighter micron than any pleated filter can.
It is debatable that 1 filter is better than > 1 filter. It is also debatable that filtering down to a micron is better. A clogged filter is a bad filter, and a 1 micron filter is an easy to clog filter. Other tubs give crystal clear water, with much hard-to-clog filters. Didn't Sundance give up on its 1 micron filter design in the 2005 models? (honest question, I can't remember).
Good luck in your additional wet tests and know that both brands are excellent and have great warranties behind them so let the wet test be what you base your decision on.
Amen!
drprwnap,
You will get a feel for both tubs as you continue to wet test. If you let rhetoric from this web site, from anyone (including myself) sway your personal opinion based on you sitting in hot water, than that is a major shame. Cute stories and promises of filtration aside, the person that has to be happy is you (or, more specifically, your wife) not me, or any dealer on this board.
-Ed
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"I bought a HS because my neighbor did, because his neighbor did, because his mother in law did, etc. That's the number one reason why people buy HS. IMO"
This might be the reason why they have sold more spas than... Everyone.
Oh, it also means they get a lot of referrals. That says a lot more than having a steel structure that is 250% stronger than wood.
One question about the steel structure, because it is 250% stronger than wood does that mean the structure will last 250% longer than a spa with a wood frame?
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Here come the indians!!! whoo whoo!!
I'm sorry. How dare I say anything questionable about Hot Springs. See how quick the disciples react?
But it's okay to blast somebody like Coleman here.
Coleman who uses 1 filter and still seems to have crystal clear water. It was Coleman, who learned how to save a filter's life by introducing the skimmer pad on top, which collects %99 percent of the crap before it even goes to the filter. So my filter, which is a year and a half old now, still looks white as can be. I've only rinsed it with a hose a couple of times. Not sure how long I will be able to go with it but I know I won't have to buy 5 of the dammed things when I do.
E-no-brain, you and tuo are the worst of the lot on this forum. You perform no good service here with your HS mantra and closed mindedness. And guys like Chas and other HS dealers, just laugh all the way to the bank.
Sometimes I really commiserate with JA and his crusade against the brainwashed.
You guys really get me worked up though, I admit it.
I'm really not like this in real life, only when somebody tries to pull the wool over others eyes, do I get irked.
And this forum has been getting away with this for as long as I've been here.
So keep talking crap here, and I'll keep calling you on it.
I'd still like to hear from Drifter, and his detailed comparison on Coleman vs. Hot Spring. What really makes Hot Springs such a dammed fine spa versus Coleman and the others, besides the fact that they sell the most. Please enlighten me. I'm sure many hear would love to know.
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Sorry to have stirred the pot. That wasn't my intention. Rick FYI, I am not a HS groupie. I don't own a HS, nor do I sell them. (I did play a HS salesman on TV though ;) ) My post was simply an attempt to pass along my opinion, comments and suggestions as the origional poster had asked for. They were based upon my 2 years experience on this site. I'm glad your happy with your Coleman. But let's be honest here if you had 100 people and were going to give each one of them any spa they wanted, I doubt Coleman would account for more than 10% of the spas picked. If you made the same offer with Cars, Fords would be well below the Merceedes and BMW's picked. Besides Coleman's not exclusively a Hot tub builder and designer. They make their money elsewhere. Look at the cost of the Coleman. Why do you think it's less expensive than HS, Sundance, Master ect. ect.? Oh that's right it's the expensive advertising! Actually not. I believe you kind of get what you pay for most of the time. That's not to say you can't get a good tub for less than a HS just like you can also get a nice car if you buy a Tauris. However if you want a real driving experience try the BMW 540i. (Putting Flame suit on) ok I'm ready now!
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Just so you know, Drifter doesn't own a HotSpring. He owns a Master!
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And guys like Chas and other HS dealers, just laugh all the way to the bank.
I can't speak for Chas, pkud, kvnlaw, and some of the other HotSpring Spa dealers on here, but I certainly do laugh all the way to the bank! And it's not from some sort of shady hi-jinks to which you seem to be alluding.
I'm laughing because I sell a lot of spas on the basis of the spa itself, the technology, the hydrotherapy, the styling, and the service that is provided after the sale. I'm laughing because most of my business is through referrals and repeat customers and not generated from some sort of overhyped pseudo-rebate program. I'm laughing because when I work at home shows or boat shows, my customers will actually take the time to stop by and help out in my booth because they love their spa and want to share their experience with other potential customers.
I do a lot of laughing with my customers who we have taken care of for the last 20 years and they laugh right along with me. It's all good! ;D
Terminator
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But it's okay to blast somebody like Coleman here.
Rick,
You have been the Blaster more than anyone on this. The amazing part is the guy who said that Hot Springs was better IN HIS OPINION than your spa was a fellow Thermopane guy so maybe you shouldn't try to wrap this all up into the handy dandy "The Full Foam guys are out to get us" scenario.
I understand you not liking the Ford vs Mercedes reference (and I mean that, it would have been better if it weren't included). However, your posts are really about anger over someone liking another product better than yours. What is so wrong with that!? Do you really need a "MY HOT TUB WAS SPA OF THE MONTH IN AQUA MAGAZINE" bumper sticker to feel better about your purchase?
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Ok, whose spa have I blasted in this Forum? Name one. Just 1 TUO. The only thing I asked about HS, is why the 5 filters. Ebirrane gave a nice HS sales pitch to explain that to us.
As you again have misrepresented, I do not blast other spas, I only defend a brand that gets irregularly blasted around here.
I could care less if Drifter likes a HS over a Coleman, it is the fact that he called a Coleman a Ford vs. a HS a Mercedes. He's not stating which he likes better, he's making a statement about which is a better built spa, and I claim that his statement is unwarranted and baseless because he, as well as most of you HS lovers, have never even bothered to take a look "under the hood" of a Coleman. All that you go by is what you have experienced a looooongggg time ago with Coleman, and then it's sale to MAXX.
Have any of you actually looked at today's Coleman and can still sit there can call it a Ford?
You're the big tech guru here TUO. Let's look at the whole kit and caboodle. Let's compare part for part, what makes the Coleman and what makes the Hot Spring. Take similar sized models, and let's break it down. You think Coleman uses cheap parts? You think their shell structure is inferior? We don't even need to get into the thermopane debate as that will settle nothing. Only let it be known that HS spas are not going to save energy bill money over Coleman.
But there it is. Which of you HS lovers is brave enough to put it on paper?
Prove to all of us that HS is a Mercedes and Coleman is Ford.
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Why I like my 12 year old Hot Springs tub. In 12 years the only part I have replaced on my tub is a heater element that cost me 86 dollars. The heater went this Feb and I live in Mass . Temp of water was 102 when it went and a week later temp was 96 deg. Outside temp was around 40 % so kind of mild for around here .
I bought the tub for one reason and at the time for one reason only. They were the only company that would put in writing what it would cost to run the tub. Other companies would give an estimate but not one at the time would put it in writing and that made my choice clear at the time .
I would look at other brands now if buying a new tub but would buy another H.S. in a heart beat . I would only buy a full foam tub and I don't think I could be convinced to change my mind on that one.\
good luck Ivan
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Ok, whose spa have I blasted in this Forum? Name one. Just 1 TUO.
My reference was to the people you blasted, including myself (though I'll get over it).
As you again have misrepresented, I do not blast other spas, I only defend a brand that gets irregularly blasted around here.
Similar to the way others do but somehow your the defender of the faith while others are part of the "good ole boys club" if they have an opposite opinion. Do you live on a one-way street?
I could care less if Drifter likes a HS over a Coleman, it is the fact that he called a Coleman a Ford vs. a HS a Mercedes.
But earlier you decided this was due to the full foam bias? You even stated "These Hot Spring cronies are all alike. " Alas, it was a thermopane guy causing your eruption, how ironic! Maybe you should drop the anti-thermopane argument anytime anyone has a differing opinion to yours.
Only let it be known that HS spas are not going to save energy bill money over Coleman.
Is it from your vast field work that you've concluded that the HS won't save you on your energy bill? I'm not saying it will or it won't but you sure seem to have some knowledge in this area that maybe you can share with us.
I have nothing negative to say about Coleman and am not going to even comment on their product. If someone is going to go thermopane they are a fine choice (assuming it's OK to give such a baseless an opinion).
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I would only buy a full foam tub and I don't think I could be convinced to change my mind on that one.
good luck Ivan
Ivan,
Welcome to the Good Ole Boys Club!
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Ok, whose spa have I blasted in this Forum? Name one. Just 1 TUO. The only thing I asked about HS, is why the 5 filters. Ebirrane gave a nice HS sales pitch to explain that to us.
No, spahappy gave the salespitch, I answered your question.
YOU DID NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION
Let me repeat it for you, because you obviously forgot it, *ick,
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I go out and buy 5 hot springs tri-x filters that last 10 years and clean with a single spin in the dishwasher, sans all the extra filter cleaners. Now you sit down and tell me, RIGHT NOW, before you do anything else, how that costs more than your spa's filter needs.
Go ahead.
do it.
I'll wait.
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And I'm still waiting.
Why am I still waiting? Because you have no answer.
You make baseless claims against HS and then switch into "conspiracy theory mode" when their engineering and popularity cause people to ask you to defend your irrational statements.
-Ed
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E-no-brain, you and tuo are the worst of the lot on this forum.
You know, through my life I have learned that the argument is won when the best you can give back is that pun.
I am the worst of the lot for you, *ick, because I will post here to hold you accountable for the misinformation and opinion disguised as aide. You have made baseless accusations in your perpetual jihad against HS and then have the audacity to yell at others for making baseless claims and yell at others for having a hidden agenda.
Answer the questions put to you or go back to lurking.
If the search feature on this site worked I would invite any to look at the pearls of wisdom rick has dropped here over the years...
-Ed
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Well I guess since I don't have a *enis, I can't be a part of the "Old Boys Club"
However I'm in a particularly compative time of the month so I'll do my best to keep up with the boys!
Drifter,
I can gaurentee if you asked 100 people in my trade area which spa they would want, over 80% would say a Coleman.
There are several reasons for this:
1. The company I work for, has been selling Coleman spas in this area longer than any other spa dealer has been selling any brand.
2. We are the largest dealer in the western half the the state.
3. Coleman makes a great spa, and they do extremly well in the harsh outdoor cilmate of this state.
4. We are very customer service orintated, and have been gaining referal business from Coleman customers every year.
5. We have an all woman sales team! ;D ;)
So all this proves is.. depending on the circumstances of a certain control group that you pole..., will determine which spa they may pick.
This again is pie in the sky...fluff....what does that prove? Where are the actual hard facts that a Coleman Spa in inferior to a Hotsprings or a Sundance.
Spahappy 8)
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"I go out and buy 5 hot springs tri-x filters that last 10 years and clean with a single spin in the dishwasher, sans all the extra filter cleaners. Now you sit down and tell me, RIGHT NOW, before you do anything else, how that costs more than your spa's filter needs. "
How long has tri-x filters been out? Not too long I hear.
So they say they'll last 10 years. Kind of hard to make that claim when they haven't been out that long now isn't it?
But let's assume that they will last 10 years. That comes to 1 filter every 2 years. Not bad I guess. But I do know that my one filter is going to last more than that. It's a year and a half old and still looks great and works well. I haven't even used any filter cleaner solution yet. I don't imagine I'll be looking for a filter for another year and a half at least.
It just looks to me like alot of overkill engineering going on. so HS can say, yeah we have 5 filters, top that competition.
Just wondering when HS is going to jump on the top skimmer filter bandwagon that Coleman has successfully introduced and I hear others are now moving to.
HS will probably develop a 5 pack skimmer filter to say we got more there too.
Overpriced spa.
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Rick, give it up, you have come a very distant second in this debate and you are sounding more like Jim Arjuna by the minute.
In my opinion HS is the Mercedes and Coleman is the Ford. That is my opinion and I do not need to justify it to anyone and nor should anyone else HAVE to justify their opinions. I wet tested both, done lots of research and I am left with that opinion, period.
Keep up the Prozac rick
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Hopefully, all this arguing can get make this a 6 page thread.
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Quick...someone say something good about Arctic! ;D
Jc
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They're the #1 spa in the world...alphabetically! ;D
Terminator
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...now nowbody can argue with that! :D :D :D
Jc
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Hopefully, all this arguing can get make this a 6 page thread.
I'm just trying to get my posts above 200. I don't know anything about Fords vs. Merceedes, I drive a Yugo!
Actually Not! Really since I've never "looked under the hood" of a coleman I have to ask.......did they make that silver thingy that holds the water stronger? Mine used to break all the time and I'd be so disappointed at lunch time when I unscrewed the cap! And can you get the spiderman logo on the outside to match the lunch box? Oh that's right we were talking about a coleman spa not the thermos! Well, Hell I know Coleman builds a much better thermos then HS ever could! They definitely use full foam there! BTW What's the list price of coleman's 7-8 person spa that would be comparable to the HS Grandee or the Sundance Optima?
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Rick, give it up, you have come a very distant second in this debate and you are sounding more like Jim Arjuna by the minute.
In my opinion HS is the Mercedes and Coleman is the Ford. That is my opinion and I do not need to justify it to anyone and nor should anyone else HAVE to justify their opinions. I wet tested both, done lots of research and I am left with that opinion, period.
Interesting....
Which models did you test in the Coleman line and which models did you test in the Hotsprings line?
I really hate this car analogy thing you boys have to keep refering to.
I drive a 2002 Suburban and I would purchase another Suburban in a heartbeat rather than a Ford or a Mercedes.
National survey data indicates that 97% of Coleman spa owners are so satisfied with their spas that they would pick Coleman as their spa of choice when and if they purchase again....
drprwnap buy the spa that feels the best to you. You and your wife are the ones who will be using it everyday.
Opinions on this board are like...well you know how the saying goes. However not everyone with a keyboard and a few years of net surfing is particularly qualified to have such opinions...In my opinion! ::)
Spahappy :D
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They're the #1 spa in the world...alphabetically! ;D
Terminator
I wish I had said that !!
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I'm just trying to get my posts above 200. I don't know anything about Fords vs. Merceedes, I drive a Yugo!
Actually Not! Really since I've never "looked under the hood" of a coleman I have to ask.......did they make that silver thingy that holds the water stronger? Mine used to break all the time and I'd be so disappointed at lunch time when I unscrewed the cap! And can you get the spiderman logo on the outside to match the lunch box? Oh that's right we were talking about a coleman spa not the thermos! Well, Hell I know Coleman builds a much better thermos then HS ever could! They definitely use full foam there! BTW What's the list price of coleman's 7-8 person spa that would be comparable to the HS Grandee or the Sundance Optima?
Drifter I'm shocked!
With all the two years of research you've put in and you have to ask what 7 to 8 person spa of Colemans is comparable to the Grandee or the Optima.
Since I sell against both the Grandee and the Optima everyday. And since I have 11 years in this industry I guess I am qualified to answer that one...
It's the Coleman 705 or 706. And a 2005 retails for $9400.00 in my area.
Drifter I think you should wet test one!
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I personally agree with Drifter, but it is just an opinion.
Chris you would disagree with me if I told you water is wet.
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Chris you would disagree with me if I told you water is wet.
I used to sell Coleman when I sold spas full time. No thanks. I will stick with the best.
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Yeah and I invented the wheel Chris...
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Well, well, well, it looks like I really stirred up the pot. Thanks for all the responses but I didn't want to start a fight! :-/
Yes, I realize there a many dealers on this board and I take their posts/opinions with that in mind. That being said, I think I have gainned some different facts and opinions (both good and bad). I also realize that no one can say their spa is the "best". That decision is mine and my wife's. Whatever feels the best for us is it. Having looked at and researched both HS and Coleman, I feel confident that they are both quality built spas that will last many years.
drprwnap 8)
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I also realize that no one can say their spa is the "best". That decision is mine and my wife's. Whatever feels the best for us is it.
On that note let's move on.
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On that note let's move on.
AMEN!!!
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I can gaurentee if you asked 100 people in my trade area which spa they would want, over 80% would say a Coleman.
By trade, I assume you mean Coleman Spa Dealer! In which case, you kinda wonder why it isn't 100%??
Last I checked Coleman doesn't have an 80% market share, even amongst "All hot tub dealers everywhere" :o
But, I know you were just kidding.
-Ed
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How long has tri-x filters been out? Not too long I hear.
So they say they'll last 10 years. Kind of hard to make that claim when they haven't been out that long now isn't it?
Rick, you want to hate HS so bad you can taste it. And that's fine, but at least (and *thank you*) for taking time to quantify your dislike.
But let's assume that they will last 10 years. That comes to 1 filter every 2 years. Not bad I guess. But I do know that my one filter is going to last more than that. It's a year and a half old and still looks great and works well. I haven't even used any filter cleaner solution yet. I don't imagine I'll be looking for a filter for another year and a half at least.
And that is the (civilized) debate between 1 or > 1 filter. On some tubs, it is recommended that you replace the filter at least once a year, if not on every cleaning (isn't that the case on the sundance?)
Anyway, there is a whole and actual debate, with engineering opinions on both sides. You throw the baby out with the bathwater (and rile people up) when you dismiss it all as a HS cult.
It just looks to me like alot of overkill engineering going on. so HS can say, yeah we have 5 filters, top that competition.
That might be true. I honestly don't know. I know that HS claims to have the most square footage with filtration (at least last time I checked), and I know that filter geeks say more square footage is better, especially to avoid clogs from heavy usage.
But is it overkill? I can't say, but I like having it.
-Ed
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AMEN!!!
Hallelujiah. Apologies to ALL for getting acidic myself.
-Ed
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By trade, I assume you mean Coleman Spa Dealer! In which case, you kinda wonder why it isn't 100%??
Last I checked Coleman doesn't have an 80% market share, even amongst "All hot tub dealers everywhere" :o
But, I know you were just kidding.
-Ed
What I meant by my trade area is the area I work and sell in.
If any of you have ever read my posts, you would realize that I have never had anything negative to say about any other spa manufacturer. Not even Cal or Haven. It's not my style.
I will defend the brand I sell against the uneducated slander that is prolific at times on this board.
For the record...I believe that Hot Springs and Sundance and many more spa manufacturers make excellent spas.
But how good are the 5 filters going to make you feel if you've tested that spa and found you prefer the fit and therapy options of another brand.
Building a quality spa isn't rocket science, there certainly are more than one or two companies doing it right.
Spahappy :D
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I will defend the brand I sell against the uneducated slander that is prolific at times on this board.
Peace.
Just know there is plenty of uneducated slander floating about.
Hot Springs is a magnet for it, and the odd claims for the 5 filters is another example.
Most quality tubs are all close enough to each other that where one edges out another is a matter of taste and most sane people understand that. But, everyone can nit pick and point out areas where their individual tubs excel.
-Ed
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Interesting....
I drive a 2002 Suburban and I would purchase another Suburban in a heartbeat rather than a Ford or a Mercedes.
Spahappy :D
Ahh the Suburban.....the "Texas Cadillac". Maybe I don't know tubs that well but Cars? Thats another story! Spahappy I'll give your opinions on hot tubs credance because of your experience but don't lose credibility by telling me you'd rather drive the 'burban than a 500S! I realize the 'burban may be usefull for towing and hauling and you might pick it for it's overall utility but for driving pleasure? However if you want real excitement? The best bang for your bucks? Performance for dollars? Take the corvette. Blows away many supposed sports cars costing twice as much! I know I had one and drove it like I stole it!
"You know driving a vette with Nitrious is like meeting a hot chick with an STD. You know you want to hit it but your afraid of the consequences!"
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Well that post sure cleared a few things up for me Drifter :P
Spahappy :D
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Take the corvette.
A man after my own heart!! Corvette's rule! Of course, I don't drive one, I own one, but hubby is afraid I might get into trouble driving it! (I hate to admit this, but he is right!)
Spahappy,
You go girl! Anyone who drives a chevy is ok with me!!
And just a side note, my husband drives a Ford!
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Wow, I go away for a few weeks and everything goes haywire around here...... ::)
I dont want to get into the fray of this dead arguement. I would like to point out some faulty logic that seemed to really stir up the debate, and Rick for that matter.Based upon my reviews of this and other web sites as well as wet testing the HS, I don't think the Coleman is in the same class as the HS.
Valid opinion
It's like comparing a Ford to a Merceedes. HS is probably the number 1 or 2 largest manufacture of spas.
Is this to suggest that Mercedes is the number 1 or 2 largest auto manufacturer? Last I checked no European manufacturer was 1 or 2 in gross sales or units produced/sold.
They didn't get there because they make a bad product.
Correct. Companies like Ford and GM & Toyota have reached inductry leading sales by producing a great product. Not the most expensive, certainly not in the same class as Mercedes....
Thats all I have to add, surprised no one else picked on the weak auto comparison.
Glad to have internet again, its been a tough couple weeks.
HTM
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"You know driving a vette with Nitrious is like meeting a hot chick with an STD. You know you want to hit it but your afraid of the consequences!"
Now this a line I never thought I would read on this board....lol...one of the most memorable for sure..... :o... :D..... ;).....
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Now this a line I never thought I would read on this board....lol...one of the most memorable for sure..... :o... :D..... ;).....
That's why I have been happily married for 31 years while driving Jeeps. ::)
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That's why I have been happily married for 31 years while driving Jeeps. ::)
I was going to suggest seat covers for Drifter. ;) 24 years for us this Monday, so plan on going unmoderated again! (see if you can tell)
365 days from today I will be (http://members.tripod.com/~Mccallw/voyager.jpg)