Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Guttboy on April 22, 2005, 10:21:53 am
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Hi Everyone!!!!
Ok my frustration level is THROUGH THE ROOF!!!!!
I am trying to get my home wired for the spa (still unsure which brand but have a really good idea).
The builder is quoting me a $710.00 price to prewire the house for a spa. It is a 220 Volt 50 Amp prewire that has the panel where I want it at the house.
The one dealer stated that I needed a "double pole 50 amp GFCI #6wire with 4 wires".
I also would place this "prewired builders panel" within 20' or less from the spa but no closer than 5' due to code.
How much can I expect an electrician to charge to run the wire from the panel to the spa area?
This is getting pretty frustrating as I am trying to minimize cost and get the job done properly.
I am pretty confused and would like some input if you all have the time....thanks a bunch!!!!!
Best wishes!
Mike :)
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Well, my bill was $360 including all parts for a 60amp service. This was part of the electrical package for a brand new house, so it probably was cheaper than a retro.
#6 wire sounds right, but verify the 4 wires. My Cameo only needed 3 (ground, hot, neutral).
Keep in mind that you also need to run from the outside panel to the spa with either sealtite or rigid conduit.
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The 4 wire run from the main is correct for 50 amps. I would imagine that the quote you have should include the whip running from the sub-panel to the spa IMO.
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The price does NOT include the conduit to the spa area whatsoever. It is just the panel on the side of the house.
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Mike,
Electrical hook up will vary depending on the town and state that you live. In New Jersey a typical electrical hook up will run about $625.00 for up to 50'. This would be done by a state licensed electrician. Price would typically include a 50 or 60 amp GFCI breaker, dual pole disconnect and trenching. Permits are paid for by the homeowner.
good luck with your project.
hottubber... ;D
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Thanks Hottuber....just trying to minimize having two separate electricians working the deal and paying both.
If it can be done without the need for prewiring and comes in cheaper then Im going with a separate electrician....gonna have to make a bunch more calls because each Electrician I have met with has confused the heck out of me.
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My electritions charge at flat fee of 500 for a complete job. ???
I'm sure it's different throughout the whole country.
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When I built my new house I had the electrician set a meter base with a generator connection and 6 empty breaker slots, this was only a hundred dollar up grade made wiring for the tub much easier and cheaper no need to run wire to main panel inside,
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I just went through this with my new house and it cost me plenty. First, pick your spa, don't get wiring done until you know what spa you are going with. I had my house pre-wired for 50 amp service, then at the last minute had to switch to a different spa and needed one 20 amp service and one 30 amp service. Yes it adds up to the same total amperage, but the wiring requirement is different.
Frankly, having done it with two electricians (i.e. house wiring separate from the spa), I would caution you not to do it the way I did. Wait until you buy the spa, have one guy do the whole job all at once. There is a lot less room for confusion, double charges, wasted effort, graft, and corruption.
Regards,
Bill
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I agree with Bill, make sure of your spa model before you wire, unless you go with the standard 50 amp. 220v four wire configuration. Our spa uses a 60 amp. 3 wire configuration- doesn't need the neutral.
So proceed at your own risk there. As for cost, it does seem a little pricey from a new construction perspective, but you may have little choice. It's much easier to to this before the walls are sealed up.
I suppose you could try and see if the builder would bend on price, or if they'd be ok with your own electrician if you found a cheaper bid.
Brewman
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Mike,
Here's my take on SOME electricians. This is from the recent price quoting for my own project.
They hear your getting a tub. Your obviously spending some $$$$$$$ to buy it so ... your not an elderly person living on a fixed income. They know that you need their services and since they can possibly make some extra money and obviously you have that extra money, they charge a little more. BTW, I see nothing wrong with professionals giving a break to elderly fixed income people - I think it should be standard practice!
Anyway, you need something they have and your going to have to pay for it. I was told that here in NJ a 200 Amp upgrade is about $1500 to do. All the electricians came in from $1650 to $1800 and I know that my upgrade is going to be a piece of cake! Then the tub install was quoted at about $800. This is to run about 30 feet of wire and go out the back of the house underneath the deck that's being built.
I believe that if a tub wasn't involved the electrical upgrade would have been cheaper (then again without the tub, I wouldn't need the upgrade - the catch 22).
Just my take on it - may be wrong.
Good Luck!
Vinny
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Plan for a 60 amp service. Years ago when I purchased my first Coleman we went with 60 even though the spa required 50.
Last Feb. I upraded my Coleman to a new 706 and it requires a 60 amp service.
My electrician told me if we had to change the breaker out it would have been more expensive. Even more so than the cost of the new breaker.
Spahappy :D
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I just went and got all my supplies. I was given the gfci dual polie 50amp from the dealer for free. I also got the 6 3 wire which is three wires and a neutral. that was 100 canadian, I also got a 60amp breaker for my box. for 19can.
So 120 for everything and my dad is an electrician and he has been ordered to put it in for me. Im pretty lucky.
My question is, is there a way to hook all of this up so it is cheaper on your monthly bill? I dont know for sure, just thought I would aske
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So 120 for everything and my dad is an electrician and he has been ordered to put it in for me.
You ordered him to do it? And he doesn't smack you upside your head!
I guess being a police officer and carrying a gun has it privileges ;D LOL
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My question is, is there a way to hook all of this up so it is cheaper on your monthly bill? I dont know for sure, just thought I would aske
You could always tap into the neighbors power supply...or better yet., just knock on his door and ask him how he's stealing power to supply his grow op, as grow operations seem to be a bit of an out of control plague in Ontario.
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You ordered him to do it? And he doesn't smack you upside your head!
I guess being a police officer and carrying a gun has it privileges ;D LOL
You're a police officer in Ontario...how's that for irony. I just finished posting the grow op reply and read the previous reply (posted just before me) which mentioned you are a copper. I didn't realize. ;D ;D
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spaz are you from the area. You seem to know your stuff.
Yeah my dad and I are cool, we get along really well. When it comes to doing things, he will not let me hire someone. He loves to do this stuff, it keeps him busy.
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Actually that's great about your dad and you. It just struck me funny on how you phrased it - please don't take offense - non was intentioned!
I have a friend that has kind of adopted me as his 4th and oldest son. He has done work around my house and he teaches me how to do things as we get things done. The man is amazing - he's almost 63 years old and he works non stop!
I helped him with my kitchen (yes - I was the grunt) but I now know how to sheet-rock and tape, hang cabinets and install recessed lights. He taught me the correct way to prepare the room for the cabinets and I even installed the counter top by myself! Growing up my dad really didn't do any construction around the house.
Actually he is going to build my deck with my help (I'm preparing to be a grunt again!) and I can't wait to see how fast it goes up with him.
Good luck on your install!
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In this area, you're going to save about $400-600 by having your father wire the tub. Depending on the distance, you're looking at about $800-1000 for installation, depending on distance. Material for this job is not cheap. I spent $200 for the GFCI/subpanel and about $300 for the wire & breaker and then $400 for the electrican to hook it up.
If I can suggest, use a product called tek-cable. It's very industrial and looks better than conduit (despite it being industrial). It's a wire covered with flex aluminum conduit then coated with liquid-tight. If you're not using it already, talk to you're father about it...good stuff.
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i guess being handy, and a working knowledge of electrical wiring really pays off.
i had to upgrade my house to 200 amp service to accomodate the new tub. a 200 amp panel, w/ breakers, at home depot was $112. gave an electrician buddy of mine $200 to help me change it (took about 5 hours). the 60 amp direct burial cable is pricey at $2.30 a ft (needed 55 ft=$126.50) funny that a piece of cable cost more than the electrical panel......
my dealer included the sub panel with the tub so no additional cost there..... between the fittings, waterproof casing, 15' romex to the tub, etc.... there was easily another $50-75.
i went with 60 amp cable, so that no matter what tub i wound up putting in i was covered. it was less than $15 difference from 50 amp to 60 amp cable.
i was quoted $1300-1700 to have a contractor upgrade my electrical service alone, and the pricing varied even more on the hook up for the hot tub. being that the "going rate" seems to vary pretty wildly, even in one specific area, try looking for a referal from some one, of an electrcian they have used and are happy with (much like buyuing the tub itself).
i cant help but notice how this seems to parallel the purchase of an actual spa. shpould you spend $300, $500, or $1000?? what kind of job do you want? being as the wrong wiring job could not only damage your new spa, it could also cause major problems in your home.
$700+ to prewired only for a spa while the house is being built sounds awfully high. does that price include the upgraded electrical panel also???
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Kent,
It only includes the sub panel on the outside of the house and the GFCI breaker in it. As far as upgrading the panel on the inside....doubt it.
Mike
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Hi ya Mike:
Chill my brother, it's ONLY a thing. I recently did the same thing you want to do, having the builder install the "interior" run with me doing the exterior finishing.
I specified a #6 gauge 4 wire cable (2 "load" wires, a neutral and copper ground), 60 AMP breaker at the panel and a separate "weather proof" exterior sub-panel with 50 AMP GFCI. This set-up cost $750 as an option.
For 220 V operation of a spa, you generally need a 4 wire set-up (check local codes for bare copper vs. shielded copper ground wire). Most spa control packs take both leads then step stuff down to 110 V by splitting the load. The difference between 110 and 220 is that 220 takes 2 "hot" leads, basically doubling the voltage. It can be reduced to 110 V by using only 1 lead. Larger spas with multiple motors use 220 and most require a 50 AMP circuit. The amperage rating of the circuit is the "draw" required for the spa to operate. The greater number of motors, heaters, etc., the higher the AMP requirement.
In my application, I had the builder run a 60 AMP circuit from the panel to a wall in my courtyard. I specified a 60 AMP circuit just to provide additional capacity in case I ever replaced my 50 AMP tub. The builder also installed a weather proof exterior "sub panel" with a 6 slot breaker bar inside, instead of a simple “cut-off box” (like the boxes you see next to exterior air conditioning units). This provides flexibility if I ever change spas or sell the house. The new owners can remove the spa wiring and put other outdoor circuits in, if desired.
The "double pole 50 amp GFCI" you mention in your post is a simple "hot tub breaker box" commonly carried by Home Depot and Lowes. Square-D has packaged this item for home owner install. Just ask any Home Depot electrical associate and I'm sure they can show you one.
Being "comfortable" in doing simple electrical installs, I did my own wiring from the exterior "sub-panel" to my tub. The 6 Gauge 4 wire was about $3.00/FT and I used about 20 FT ($60). I purchased 20 FT of "1.5 inch liquid proof plastic flex conduit" at about $1.50/FT for an underground power run ($30). I also needed a Square-D 50 AMP 220V GFCI breaker for the sub-panel ($120). All supplies were bought at Home Depot.
The sub-panel was positioned about 10 FT from my tub. I trenched 2 FT underground between my sub-panel and tub, put the wire in the conduit, laid the conduit in the trench, ran the conduit up to and in a 4 inch x 2 FT long capped PVC pipe (used as an underground vault beneath my tub), through the bottom of my tub to the spa pack and connected both ends of the wiring by installing the GFCI breaker in the panel. I used the plastic flex-conduit connectors on each end to "water proof" both connections. I also tested the breaker and hooked up the wiring to the tub. None of this stuff was all that difficult, just time-consuming. The job took me a weekend, it would probably take a professional a few hours. So, total cost (outside) with me doing the work, about $220.
Alternatively, you could ask an electrician if you can do the "rough-in" work, laying the cable, running the wires, etc. This way, all he has to do is the hook-up, saving him a bunch of time and reducing your cost. Some electricians are happy to do this, others are not. In any case, make CERTAIN you build to code and have stuff inspected. REMEMBER, I'm not an electrician and this post is my OPINION only, please consult a professional before undertaking any project on your own.
A picture of the finished job is below, note the small grey box on the wall of the house with the cable going to the ground, behind the patio chair.
Hope this answers your questions, post more if you have them….
Good Luck!
Drewski
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(http://img124.echo.cx/img124/7111/P05.th.jpg) (http://img124.echo.cx/my.php?image=P05.jpg)
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Check out E-bay for spa panels.. There is a 60 amp one right now for under $20.00..ps.. It is not me selling it!! There are several on there.. just look under spa panel or GFCI..
Rushfan2112 ;D
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Thanks Drewski! WIll do a bit more chatting on it....
Regards,
Mike
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Your Welcome!