Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: johnvb on April 15, 2005, 08:19:26 am
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What health concerns should I have using the ozone sanitizer in my tub that will be installed indoors?
The room will be separated from the rest of the house, as if it was an outdoor space. I plan on using ventilation, should I need a small amount running 24/7, with much more air moving while we are in the room, just to be on the safe side?
Thanks
John
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John, thanks for the side line that identifies your spa. My answer is No. We can take the time to discuss chlorine "gass off" or bromine "gas off" that is blamed for "lifeguard lung". But here we talking about Ozone "off gassing".
Interior applications have less air circulation, thus the reason there is talk about it. Also, those who do not understand it or want to sell you on an alternate choice may choose to create fear in your mind by bringing up the subject.
There is no discussion of these issues outside because of the air circulation, but that is where the life guards get their problem too. Anything you smell is "gaseous". and, if we really want to be intimidating, we can talk about other, more dramatic, examples that can also create enough fear to question anyone's judgement.
Your particular spa has a CD ozonator with a unique setup that is specifically intended to reduce the potential of "off gassing". Ozone, which is a gaseous form of air bubbles that is introduced into the spa in a variety of ways, is intended to create the tinyest, water soluable air bubbles possible. Different manufacturers use different methods of injection and mixing, the most common use in all is a mazzie injector which is also present in your spa.
SD and your Optima have a unique development in the feed line that is specifically intended to increase the levels of ozone concentration in the mixing process and holding it in suspension during the "contact" process causing a more efficient and effective "kill & oxidize" interaction with the specific intent to reduce "off gassing" that affects the pillows and the underside of the cover.
While their motive also includes dismissing consumer concerns of common discussion (or gossip if you may) of technical issues without background data, their primary interest becomes warranty or product concerns that affect customer complaints or warranty issues, thus the pillows and covers.
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Just an FYI, but as far as I'm aware, all ozone systems except for D1's UltraPure system stop generating ozone the instant a topside control button is pressed (lights, jets, temp., etc.). This takes care of the safety concern with ozone gas while you're using your tub.
To the best of my knowledge, this is something that is regulated by safety standards boards (UL, etc.) based on the amount of ozone off-gassing produced by each given brand/model.
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Thanks for the great replies, and yes, I read about the concerns on a web site dealing with general spa FAQ’s.
Does ozone have a particular "smell"? If it does, my better half will notice immediately, as she can tell if someone's smoking a half-mile away!
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Just an FYI, but as far as I'm aware, all ozone systems except for D1's UltraPure system stop generating ozone the instant a topside control button is pressed (lights, jets, temp., etc.). This takes care of the safety concern with ozone gas while you're using your tub.
To the best of my knowledge, this is something that is regulated by safety standards boards (UL, etc.) based on the amount of ozone off-gassing produced by each given brand/model.
Both Hotspring and Sundance generate ozone 24 hours a day even with the jets or lights being on. They both have been doing this for over 3 years now.
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Both Hotspring and Sundance generate ozone 24 hours a day even with the jets or lights being on. They both have been doing this for over 3 years now.
Cool. Thanks for the correction Chris_H.
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Both Hotspring and Sundance generate ozone 24 hours a day even with the jets or lights being on. They both have been doing this for over 3 years now.
How come the little Ozone indicator on the panel goes off as soon as you turn on the jets? You're saying the ozone is actually on when the indicator is off?
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I am unaware of any ozone indicator on Sundance spas. Where is it on the control panel?
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I am unaware of any ozone indicator on Sundance spas. Where is it on the control panel?
If you go to the Sundance website you can pull up the user manual for the 2004 850 series. Page 16 has the layout of the panel. The bottom picture shows the ozone indicator next to the heater indicator. It's a little round thing that kinda looks like the sun.
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For Sundance Spas, I am pretty sure it is on all the time, but I also have never paid attention to that indicator light. However, it could “appear” that the ozone is on (putting out bubbles) due to the Mazzei injector.
At this time, I must take back my statement that Sundance puts out ozone at all times. I will find the answer this weekend.
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My Master spa Ozinator is on all the time as well. It definitely doesn't turn off when you hit a top side switch!
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For Sundance Spas, I am pretty sure it is on all the time, but I also have never paid attention to that indicator light. However, it could “appear” that the ozone is on (putting out bubbles) due to the Mazzei injector.
At this time, I must take back my statement that Sundance puts out ozone at all times. I will find the answer this weekend.
I know the indicator goes on and off but you're right that it does appear to always be running when the circ pump is running as you see the little bubbles even when the ozone indicator is off. I'd be interested to know how this really works.
Ken
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On my 2003 Reward the light (purple) on the ozonator is still on when the pumps are running.
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Both Hotspring and Sundance generate ozone 24 hours a day even with the jets or lights being on. They both have been doing this for over 3 years now.
This is not an accurate statement. The production of ozone is terminated the moment a function button is depressed in the Optima and remains off until 5 minutes after the last function button has been depressed.
This is engineering by design and is based on experience which makes a difference between the makers we shop. Some are Quality by design, other are replicas or what you might call "knock offs".
The bubbles that continue to appear are air bubbles not ozone. The electric is terminated to the ozonator ceasing the production of ozone and turning the function indicator off. The hydraulic connections remain connected to the mazzie injector and suction continues to suck air.
The question and issue relates to interior vs. exterior concerns relating to the concept of "off-gassing", chemicals "off-gass" as well.
The smell of ozone is recognizable and can be related to the clean smell of air after a rain storm. Ozone is brought down from the upper atmosphere taking impurities out of the air leaving the clean fresh smell in the air. Ozone is the primary source of smoke eaters or eliminators in places where smoking is allowed.
Your dealer should be able to demonstrate the output of a generator but remember what we smell is the gaseous form of ozone that we are trying to eliminate or reduce before it gets into the atmospheric air.
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As others have said, the bubbles are simply an indicator that the circ. pump is running and drawing air via the mazzei (sp?) injector. Originally at least, D1 was the only manufacturer who was able to continue to run the ozone generator while the jetting pumps ran (because their mixing chamber virtually eliminates off-gassing). This may have changed as other companies begin to use similar technology. I do know that the other two brands that we carry (Coleman and Artesian) shut off the ozone generator as soon as any button on the topside control is pressed. As I understand it, this is regulated by UL (and perhaps by some additional safety standards boards).
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This discussion of ozone on/off for various manufacturers is nice, but back to the original question regarding ventilation of an indoor spa room.... ;D
There were a couple of threads discussing these topics (ozone/health and ventilation) in the last couple of months. Do a search going back at least 60 days (I usually add 00 to the 7 default to get two years worth of postings on a topic.)
IMO regardless of if your ozonator shuts off when the jets are running and/or how well your tub controls offgassing, you want plenty of ventilation 24/7 for an indoor spa. In addition to the ozone, you will have sanitizer offgassing and other air contaminants :P, not to mention increased humidity levels.
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The reason I brought up the ozone shut-down while jets are running is because that would mean that typically when the cover is off, there would be no ozone produced. This would result in little-to-no actual exposure to ozone (even indoors).
As was already mentioned, I believe that indoor exposure to chlorine vapors may be more of a health concern than the ozone.
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The reason I brought up the ozone shut-down while jets are running is because that would mean that typically when the cover is off, there would be no ozone produced. This would result in little-to-no actual exposure to ozone (even indoors).
Cgar, I really should let you have the last word on this because you may well be right, but I respectfully disagree. I think that even though the ozone may not be being produced while the cover is off, it will still be introduced into the room when the cover is removed. When I was shopping for tubs, most covers on demo models were faded on the inside due to exposure to the gases coming off the tub.:P I'm betting on the ozone, but it really doesn't matter. Johnvb, you need to do your own research on the effects of ozone indoors and then decide if:
a) ozone matters, and
b) if it does, do you really want to rely on your spa manufacturer's marketing claims regarding their ability to eliminate ozone offgassing. ::)
c) are you better off just increasing ventilation, or getting a tub without ozone (or disconnecting it if you already have the ozone)
Regardless, it appears that cgar and I agree that there are lots of reasons to ventilate a room with a spa in it, ozone or not, and looking back John said he plans to ventilate anyway, so I guess the real question was do you need to do anything special re: the ozone???? I am not an expert on indoor air and I doubt most of the posters here are either. I do know that Consumer Reports isn't fond of it, and recommends against putting sources of ozone in your home. There may be codes for this or indoor pools that you need to follow, but in the absence of that, or guidelines from your spa manufacturer... if it was my room, I'd want more concrete info than this board is likely to provide.
Good luck on your research and and let us know what you decide.
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This whole topic has been discussed to death before, and I just don't have the energy to look up all the previous posts and paste them. and I type slow.
however,
I have customers that discovered their children had asthma when they got a spa with ozone.......... once they unplugged the ozonator, they forgot the kids problem.
I had another customer with a spa indoors and the ozone destroyed a plasma TV (ozone is known to destroy some kinds of plastic)
The EPA considers ozone a serious indoor air pollutant
I don't know how "current" this info is, but it's worth reading;
http://www.rhtubs.com/indoor-ozone-danger.htm
As a side note, everything I've ever heard of read with regards to "swimmers hot tub lung" has occurred with indoor swimming pools. I don't recall ever hearing about an occurrence in an outdoor pool (that didn't involve some kind of misting devise, or mist generating water feature).
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I had another customer with a spa indoors and the ozone destroyed a plasma TV (ozone is known to destroy some kinds of plastic)
Ouch! :o I just bought $500 worth of "Azek" cellular PVC beadboard trim for the ceiling, because it is moisture proof.
If it is basically the same as the PVC piping used in the spa, am I ok?
As for other "gasses", we will be using the supplied Bromine tablet sanitizers with the spa to start with.
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We are planning on having an indoor hot tub and I tried to find information about having an ozonator indoors with ventilation.
I contacted Sundance with my concerns and questions regarding this subject and they would not respond to anything about the safety concerns about there ozonators.
I have copd and decided it would be best for me to not have an ozonator in our hot tub, especially with the lack of credible testing of the ozonators by any independent labs.
Ron
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I can not believe what appears to be an over reaction to the lack of understanding ozone. It has been in use since the 1890's primarily for water purification. Everybody who know's nothing seems to have an opinion on it and they are looking for someone to either reinforce it or debate it.
If there is so much concern over ozone off gassing, what about ALL other sanitizers that are in use. They gas off too. Are you aware that a Hot Tub is a breeding ground of bacteria that could be the source of infection that could even result in death (legionaires desease).
Put Delzone in your search engine and begin some research. Don't expect a hot tub manufacturer, SD or any other, to comment or give an opinion on water sanitation other than you need it.
Fear and the unknown, Investigate, research and learn, ultimately you are responsible for your own decisions. I have put over 5,000 ozones on hot tubs and I like to think I know something about the subject, but I learn something new everyday. I have never had a custumer die of ozone inhalation.
Research the ozone industry. Del would be a good start. How can you make an intelligent decision based on ignorance or hearsay. You could be passing on a very good concept in lieu of a worser fate.
Are you aware that the pool and spa industry is "chemically dependant" and ozone dosen't make any money in after market sales? Think about it. ??? Open your eyes :o and look for the answers.
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"It has been in use since the 1890's primarily for water purification. "
this is true, but the method used for drinking water is COMPLETELY different than how it's used for spas.
"If there is so much concern over ozone off gassing, what about ALL other sanitizers that are in use. "
this could be referred to as the power of the lobbying dollar
"Put Delzone in your search engine and begin some research."
On the propaganda published by an ozone manufacturer?
"Don't expect a hot tub manufacturer, SD or any other, to comment or give an opinion on water sanitation other than you need it."
I would expect a responsible answer to a concern of personal safety, even if that answer is "I don't know, there are no comprehensive studies".
"Fear and the unknown, Investigate, research and learn, ultimately you are responsible for your own decisions. "
And if the studies don't exist, are have been hidden from the public?
"I have put over 5,000 ozones on hot tubs and I like to think I know something about the subject,"
Like...... how to install them? According to the manufacturers specifications? (sorry, I didn't really mean to offend........ just me and my lack of not being able to resist sometimes :-)
"but I learn something new everyday. I have never had a customer die of ozone inhalation."
Die no, bring on an asthma attack yes.
" How can you make an intelligent decision based on ignorance or hearsay. You could be passing on a very good concept in lieu of a worser fate. "
Or you could be passing on something that one day might be right up there on the list with asbestos
"Are you aware that the pool and spa industry is "chemically dependant" and ozone doesn't make any money in after market sales?"
Would this be why a $5 florescent light in a box sells for $100.00 or more?
speaking of asbestos, I will now don (sp?) my asbestos suit
FLAME ON
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I am definitely not an expert on this subject, but have tried to research ozone because of the statements that you can run a hottub almost chemical free with one of these units installed.
Everything I have read on ozone has stated that it is not good for your health, especially if you have asthma.
There was a recent article in consumer reports about ionizers and the ozone created by these units and the adverse effects to your health caused by the ozone. ozone is ozone, it doesn't matter what is creating it.
One of my son-in-laws owned one of the units that they did not recommend. He has asthma and purchased the unit hoping it would help. His asthma got worse after purchasing the unit and he was trying to blame it on the pets they own. After I told him about the report in consumer reports, he shut it off and his asthma is now improving.
I do not believe there is enough credible information out there to prove that the ozonator is safe to use in an enclosed area.
If somebody can point me to that information I would appreciate it.
Ron
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Doc, Thanks for your additional insight, do you sell ozonators on your site?
This is like politics and religion. I guess there are two sides to every coin.
We could both be looking at the same quarter, on one side you would see the impression of an eagle, and on the other side I would see the the impression of a man.
Would one of us be wrong? Or is it our point of view?
BTW you missed a line, "Everybody who know's nothing seems to have an opinion on it and they are looking for someone to either reinforce it or debate it."
You don't offend me, and I don't mean to challenge you, but it seems that over 115 years there is little to show to support either argument, eh?
BTW I searched your site and coul not find a $5 bulb
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"Doc, Thanks for your additional insight, do you sell ozonators on your site?"
You say at the end, you searched my site......... so of course you know that we do......... well, actually we offer them, but I don't recall sellign one in the last few years.............. not that I'm aware of all of our sales. We offer them, the few people I personally talk to about them, I give my personal beliefs about them, and suggest an ionizer instead.........
Yeah, sometime in the future they'll find a problem with ionizers I'm sure ;D
"This is like politics and religion. I guess there are two sides to every coin. "
naaaaaaaaaa politics and religion I'm smart enough to stay the heck out of..
"We could both be looking at the same quarter, on one side you would see the impression of an eagle, and on the other side I would see the the impression of a man."
WATCH out for them quarters, they can be very dangerous........ trust me, I was in a casino a couple weeks ago :P
"Would one of us be wrong? Or is it our point of view?"
Hey, as far as I'm concerned, it's just a half a glass of water.
"BTW you missed a line, "Everybody who know's nothing seems to have an opinion on it and they are looking for someone to either reinforce it or debate it."
miss? moi? perhaps I just chose not to respond to it?....... ummmmmmm, is there room here to mention us debating this? (ok, so I have a sick sense of humor).... or is your point that because I'm debating it I know nothing about it?
"You don't offend me, and I don't mean to challenge you, but it seems that over 115 years there is little to show to support either argument, eh? "
little openly shown yes..... but in my own cynical way, I kinda figure somewhere there's some test results being covered up or hidden away.
"BTW I searched your site and coul not find a $5 bulb"
Actually, it would be a $2 bulb, in a $1 box, with about $2 more of electrical stuff.......... unfortunately though, I don't manufacture this paticular product and am forced to pay whatever the manufacturer feels they can get.
And no, I have no interest in starting to manufacture these........... I got enough with hot tubs and spa covers.
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Doc, I see you waited for me to go to bed last night to post your response.
I don't believe it is beneficial for you to pontificate what you know or don't know. You lost all credibility with me when you posted this.....
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Re: to ozone or not
Posted By: Dr. Spa
Date: Monday, 16 August 2004, at 6:02 p.m.
In Response To: Re: to ozone or not (Michael J)
: Ozone is an oxidizer, sanitizer and a
: carcinogen.
Well, you just lost all credibility on this one..... ozone is NOT a sanitizer..... go ask your ozone manufacturer or the EPA.
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Why do you refer to ozone as a sanitizer throughout your site???? Now, don't go getting made at me and sending me any e-mails again threatening to spank me. I am under the assumption that we are both here trying to help others.
It is just that you see the glass half empty and I see it half full, or visa versa if you may. That is why we are in balance.
Those who hold themselves out to be doctors are usually practicing something. They are usually the first to admit to the truth, they don't know it all, nor do I
But come on, don't pontificate your lack of understanding and beliefs in an open forum when there is little to nothing to prove.
Back to the issue at hand. Johnvb has a legitimate question he would like some input on. He has been elsewhere and maybe has received some mis-information maybe even from your website that could be erroneous and he wants a differing point of view.
I do not hold myself out to be an authority on the subject and I know you are not one either. Ozone is in fact a sanitizer despite you saying it is not. You even say it is multiple times over in your profit making enterprise that sells ozonators.
Just because you can leave little tracks that lead to your archives, it does not mean it is the written word of the gospel, as written by Dr. Spa.
You certainly do try to do good work, you certainly keep this world in some form of balance while trying to keep us all in our place. Maybee we should take this over to see JA and get his point of view.
Now, can I order 10 of those $5.00 bulbs or not?
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Yeah, I know I made a mistake on my knowledge of Sundance, but what is going on here?
I made myself read a post that was close to one page long. Shame on both of you. Now kiss and make up.
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Here’s something I pulled off the ASHRAE web site (American Society of Heating, Refrigerating and Air-Conditioning Engineers, Inc.)
Even though they give a general ventilation requirement guideline of .5cfm of outside air per sq. ft., they state that there is too many variables in the pool water chemistry and not enough data to determine whether this guideline is sufficient or not. Sounds like a good starting point though.
ASHRAE Studies Swimming Pool Off-Gassing
ATLANTA—Research on the proper amount of ventilation to be used to remove or dilute off-gassing of chlorine-based chemicals used to treat pools is being conducted by ASHRAE. ANSI/ASHRAE Standard 62, Ventilation for Acceptable Indoor Air Quality, requires 0.5 cfm (0.2 L/s) of outdoor air per square foot of pool and deck area or 15 cfm (7 L/s) per person. Because little or no data exists on the chlorine-based chemicals, it is unknown whether the amount of ventilation air supplied to the pool enclosure is sufficient to remove the pollutants emitted by the water.
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Yeah, you lost me at "ASHRAE web site." Sorry.
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My spa room is now 14' x 12' (was 12' x 12' but I bumped out one of the walls) That's 168 sq. ft. x .5 cfm which would be 84 cfms. Which is basically the size of one of those fairly quiet fart fans for small baths.
I could use one of these by itself during non-use, and along with a heat recovery ventilator unit, rated at 120 cfms when we are using the spa.
I'll have to do more research, I don't think bath fans are rated for continuous "on" duty.
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"I see you waited for me to go to bed last night to post your response."
Yes, you are correct, I did intentionally wait 1-1/2 hour after you posted, till 9:43pm my time, to make my post, knowing full well you would snoring away........ guilty as charged.
"I don't believe it is beneficial for you to pontificate what you know or don't know. You lost all credibility with me when you posted this....."
So if I lost credibility with you back in Aug of last year, why are you now, 8 month later, carrying on with this?
I have, since that post of last year (2 or 3 months ago in fact), been corrected and admitted to that fact that yes, ozone is in fact a sanitizer. HOWEVER, just like chlorine ozone must first oxidize anything in the water BEFORE it can begin sanitizing. It is unlikely that there will ever be enough ozone in a spa to completely oxidize the organic matter and will therefore never have a chance to begin sanitizing
" Now, don't go getting made at me and sending me any e-mails again threatening to spank me."
is this a punishment you feel is necessary?
"It is just that you see the glass half empty and I see it half full, or visa versa if you may."
As I previously explained, all I see is a half a glass of water.
"Those who hold themselves out to be doctors are usually practicing something. They are usually the first to admit to the truth, they don't know it all, nor do I"
Are you now attacking my nome de plume? Will it be my grammar and/or spelling next?
"Back to the issue at hand. Johnvb has a legitimate question he would like some input on."
Gee, and I thought all I initially did was to give Johnvb my input.
"He has been elsewhere and maybe has received some mis-information"
Well he definitely receive some of that here.
"maybe even from your website that could be erroneous and he wants a differing point of view."
or perhaps you've supplied mis-information in a private email to him (HEY! If you want to start making blind accusations, lets go............... spanking on it's way :P )
"You even say it is multiple times over in your profit making enterprise that sells ozonators."
OH MY GOD, please forgive me for having a job and trying to make an honest and ethical living. I'll also inform my employees that they to should be working for free and living on the streets
"Just because you can leave little tracks that lead to your archives,"
Little? RATS, I gotta work on that. I was hoping for tracks big as big foot.
"it does not mean it is the written word of the gospel, as written by Dr. Spa."
Does my opinion, my posts, really carry that much weight? WOW! Very cool. I'd like to thank my mom, my business partner, my second grade teacher Miss Gramm, and of course the academy.
"You certainly do try to do good work, you certainly keep this world in some form of balance while trying to keep us all in our place."
DUDE! I simply posted of a couple of very negative experiences from a couple of customers........ That nerve is quite tender eh?
" Maybe we should take this over to see JA and get his point of view."
hahahahahahaha, yeah, please, feed the side show circus.
"Now, can I order 10 of those $5.00 bulbs or not?
Since it's now apparent you either haven't read my posts in their entirety, I'll copy and paste what I said before......... I'll make it so it's a bit easier to read
[glb]unfortunately though, I don't manufacture this particular product and am forced to pay whatever the manufacturer feels they can get.[/glb]
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Here's the FDA site about ozone that was posted at Doc's site:
http://www.epa.gov/safewater/mdbp/alternative_disinfectants_guidance.pdf
Please remember when reading this - it's about drinking water not spa water.
If I remember correctly, Chapter 3 is about ozone.
To johnvb,
Ozone is not the end all to sanitation. I've had a pool now for 4 years and use chlorine to sanitize my pool. Hot tubs are a little different as chlorine is dissipated by the heat.
People have said on these forums that yes ozone helps but some have also said that they have had things deteriorate and they have attributed it to the ozone off gassing in their spa.
I personally wouldn't use ozone in an enclosed room. Although it comes from a spa - ozone is ozone and if your spa doesn't "use" (for the lack of a better term) the ozone - it has to go somewhere - it may be as bad as the devices that the FDA has an alert on.
Just my 2 cents!
Vinny
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Thanks Vinny
I've been a pool owner for over 20 years, but am totally clueless when it comes to spas. I’m hoping there are more similarities than differences when it comes to chemical maintenance between the two. Guess I will find out soon enough.
It would be nice if there were some kind of indicator to place in the room, to keep off-gassing in check (a canary in a coal mine, so to speak).
I downloaded the manual for my tub from Sundance, there is absolutely no warnings concerning indoor spas and ozone, or any other off-gassing to that matter, only a recommendation of ventilation for moisture buildup reasons.
You would think in the litigious world we live in, Sundance would be covering their a$$ with some sort of disclaimer regarding this issue in their literature, if the danger was so great.
???
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[quote author=johnvb
You would think in the litigious world we live in, Sundance would be covering their a$$ with some sort of disclaimer regarding this issue in their literature, if the danger was so great.
???[/quote]
Yes they would, and your question hits the nail right on the head.
Let me first say, I do not want to bring any extremist out of the wood work, and I will not respond to verbal retaliation after this post, but if I may, I would like to make a few points.
Regarding the air mass in the room and how it relates to 1) humidity, or 2) off-gassing of chemicals or ozone, install an exhaust fan and wire it with a humidistat switch. It will then be triggered on when the level of humidity triggers it to be on, most likely when the cover is open, and turns it off automatically. Nutone makes the exhaust fan and just install it with the humidistat switch.
Regarding this endless discussion of "off-gassing" whether it be chemicals, ozone or flatulence there are elements in our everyday air that we do not necessarily want to inhale volumns of. I, personally think and believe, and I do not wish to invite opposing opinions, that there is DANGER in our everyday atmospheric air we could be talking about.
However, regading the subject of ozone, it is created from oxygyn molecules in the air, O2. The O2 molecules are so to speak sliced and diced by the ultraviolet light of the sun or the electrical discharge of lightning that form our ozone layer in the upper atmosphere.
UV ozonators and Corona Discharge ozonators mimic the sun and lightning and split O2 molecules that combine and create O3 molecules that are refered to as active oxygen or ozone, O3.
Once O3 is created, we want to smash it into the tinyest, water soluable air bubbles to interact with contaminants in the water and they are minerals, nutrients, bacteria and viruses. The life cycle of O3 is very short and is like a magnet looking to attract a like atom from a molecule to divide into 2 molecules of oxygyn O2 and go air borne once again.
Obviously, if we manufacture excessive oxone the water will be pristine and the O3 will not find any contaniments, break the water's surface and go airborne. That would be "gas off" the water's surface and it will remain to be O3 until it finds a like atom.
Off gassing is excessive ozone that has not found a like atom and goes air borne where it will eventually find a molecule to extract from it a like atom.
To use the words of an earlier poster,
"I havebeen corrected and admit to that fact that yes, ozone is in fact a sanitizer. HOWEVER, just like chlorine ozone must first oxidize anything in the water BEFORE it can begin sanitizing. It is unlikely that there will ever be enough ozone in a spa to completely oxidize the organic matter and will therefore never have a chance to begin sanitizing"
Ozone does not discriminate between oxidation or sanitation nor between what molecules of nutrients, mineral, bacteria or viruses it attacks first. It takes a like atom from the first thing it comes in contact with and reverts to oxygn.
As this person says, "It is unlikely that there will ever be enough ozone in a spa to completely oxidize the organic matter and will therefore never have a chance to begin sanitizing".
Then IF, that is the case, there is not enough ozone left to gas off. We need to know and be aware there are times that we will need to use chemicals, as ozone is not suggested or recommended to be a stand alone oxidizer or sanitizer. But, it does reduce substantially the amount of chemicals you would otherwise use.
Thus, ozone does need to be used in conjunction with other chemical sanitizers and this issue of "off-gassing" is truely blown out of porportion and produces a certain element of fear.
Incidentally, I would not recommend using ozone in conjunction with BaquaSpa chemicals. Their maintenence booklet will tell you to follow their recommendations on a 7 day schedule unless you have ozone than you need to adapt to a 4 day schedule.
That is a 43% increase in the consumption of chemicals and at the price of Bq that is a substantial increase in dealer profits. Ozone has to oxidize something, eh!
Here is to our good health, clean, clear water and love in the tub ;D
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Even though they give a general ventilation requirement guideline of .5cfm of outside air per sq. ft., they state that there is too many variables in the pool water chemistry and not enough data to determine whether this guideline is sufficient or not. Sounds like a good starting point though.
Ventilation for Acceptable Indoor Air Quality, requires 0.5 cfm (0.2 L/s) of outdoor air per square foot of pool and deck area or 15 cfm (7 L/s) per person. Because little or no data exists on the chlorine-based chemicals, it is unknown whether the amount of ventilation air supplied to the pool enclosure is sufficient to remove the pollutants emitted by the water.
??? Hmmm, you and I must be like Doc and J McD, because we read the same thing and come to entirely different conclusions. I don't see a 75 degree pool of relatively calm water as putting nearly as much stuff into the air as a 102 degree pot of ozone bubbles and sanitizer being stirred by two 3hp motors, so I wouldn't characterize this as a "good starting point." These engineers state quite clearly that they don't know if this is adequate for a pool -- much less a spa!
Please forgive me for making assumptions, but it appears to me that you have already decided what you are going to do and are looking for validation, not input. If you eliminate the Doc/J McD posts, you will see that most of the other posters feel that concerns about ozone indoors outweigh its potential benefits, as does the EPA and Consumer Reports. If you are dead set on using it, IMO err on the side of excess ventilation.
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Wow, thanks for all the input folks. :) I will post what I come up with later.