Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Guttboy on March 21, 2005, 08:59:49 pm
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Hi Everyone....
I am going to post our wet tests here in this format so that it is easy for folks to see them as they wont be buried in the long threads prior.
Went to the Sundance dealership today. They have been here for 27 years and have been with Sundance for as long as they can remember. Family owned and operated business...only carry sundance products. All service and warranty done from them...no subcontracting.
We started looking at the Cameo and the Optima...they are identical spa's although the Cameo has a lounger and the Optima does not. This changes how the seating is laid out and THIS IS A BIG DEAL.
With the lounger in the Cameo you lose the foot mound that the Optima has. If you are small like my wife at 5'5" it is nearly impossible for her to keep seated in the accusage seat without blowing out...no where to brace herself.
I was impressed with the quality of the construction...pulled off all the panels...looked at how things were laid out. Generally looked and felt very solid to us.
The filtration system threw us for a loop. The 2005 has a disposable (yes, disposable) filter that gets replaced from 6-8 months of useage. It is affixed in place and you do not have to acid bathe it...you just "set it and forget it"...just like the Ronco product..LOL....
Not 100% sure on how well this works but the Sundance folks really like the way this is done. Any comments welcome!!!!! Those filters run for about 100 bucks.
The spa comes with ozonation that is not the 100 cheapo but not the mega ozone either that a Maxxus would typically carry. The one that it carries (on the one we looked at) is I suppose the top of the line that is offered with this model..you could go to the higher one but the folks in the dealership said that would be way too much ozone and you would not be gaining anything by it. They will put it in but dont recommend this.
Spa comes with a cover lifter, cover, steps (cedar), and chemicals (assuming starter pack..have to ask more on this).
Price Quoted on both the 2005 Cameo and Optima is $8850.00 without tax.
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Wet test.....Part II as message was too long....LOL ::)
LOT OF FUN! We had them set the spa to 99 degrees. Both my wife and I are very hot blooded and there is NO way that we could survive a 100+ degree stew..LOL.
(future tests will be at 98 degrees for us)
We tested the 2005 Optima. We both found that no matter which seat we sit in we can make ourselves float. We are not fat folks by any means but we are floaters...LOL.....this was not a distraction because of the foot mound in the center of the spa. We could use our feet to keep us in any position that we liked.
Each corner seat is situated at a slightly different height. In between the seats opposite the filter side is a cooldown type seat that is slightly higher than the rest so that your shoulders and chest are out but your bottom is in with a jet on your lower back.
The adjustability of the jets was a bit confusing and will take some time to get used to but by using the air/diverters/jets themselves we could get every range of pressure that we liked. (DONT RUN ON 100% all the time or you will kill yourself....) We liked running the jets from medium to low as 100% for any length of time is just tooooooo much pressure for us. They are good for brief times I am sure but for us we liked them from midway to low pressure. All ranges achievable for us.
You can run the whirlpool jets as well without the seats for a different experience...aka...no jets for hydrotherapy massage stuff but you do get circulating water...nice change of pace.
They also have a nice blower. This shoots air through the blower holes in the spa. Not through the jets mind you but through the dedicated blower air holes. This was cool just to run without jets....the air that comes in is ambient temperature so you will feel that it is cooler than the water that you are sitting in. Nice for us hot blooded folks as it cooled it down slightly and felt a bit refreshing with the cool bubbles on us. You can also run this with the jets running and we did so as well.
There is a nice water feature called an "aquaterrace". Water feature big deal....well actually it was pretty cool. Same principle as others Im sure. It has a piece you can remove to change the sound from brook to rainlike and you can also adjust the flow of it too. It is backlit with LED's that either cycle through the colors or you can freeze them (the same color is in the tub on the main light as well). We liked it when all the jets and blowers were off it was just like a nice warm soak with relaxing sound....nice touch.
The foot mound has many foot jets on it so everyone can get a chance on it. The mound also has a big whirlpool jet that faces up. You can get intense foot massage from the smaller jets then just kick your feet into the top of the water column that the whirlpool shoots and it feels very nice. (nice touch for two types of foot therapy from ALL seats....you dont get this if you have a lounger as in the Cameo).
You can run the aromatherapy in it as well. Instead of adding scent to the water it goes in a little plastic cage that is inserted into the tub. Only air passes by this while the blower is on so you are not adding oils/chems to the water for scent. They claim it lasts about 4 to 6 weeks per little basket. If you like scent you may like this option...for us it is not a player as we dont care one way or the other.
The control panel is very easy to understand and we like the large numbers on it. There is a separate control on the opposite side for lighting as well.
The jets...well you have to feel them....I like the side to side action that they produce on some of the types...very nice feeling. The only downfall for some may be the neck jets. They are not extremely powerfull and for me 5'10" and fairly broad shoulders they didnt blow my socks off. My wife on the other hand liked them...but she likes gentle pressure not force.
Overall we got something out of every seat in the tub! There was not an area that I did not like...big plus in our book. I also think that a lounger for us may be right out. The wife would just float away and I believe I would as well. Couple that with the fact she would not be able to keep down in the tub because she could not brace her feet make us move our thoughts to the Optima as opposed to the Cameo with the lounger. Some may require a lounger but we dont as we can just reposition the butt and float up a little to be lounging from the seats.
For those wet/dry testing. The feel of this spa was very different from dry testing. DO not rule a spa out because you dont like the dry testing....give it a shot in the water if you can.
Overall I would rate this a very high quality spa from a dealer that knows their stuff and is very friendly and helpful.
My questions for others...any experience with the NEW filtration??? Pros/Cons?????
I hope this review of our wet test was helpful to you all and remember YOU HAVE TO WET TEST!!!!!
Overall Rating by us......Very good!
Price quoted..................$8850.00 no tax
Included in price.............Delivery, startup chem, cover lifter, cover, steps, ozonator
Regards!!!!
:)
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The disposable filter would be a deal breaker for me. It may last 6-8 months...or the day after Cousin Eddie visits ;)
What other brands have you wet tested also?
I would be interested in comparing the Sundance with the Calderas. We liked the way the Jacuzzis jets felt, as with the Calderas, but the latter had more bells and whistles to boot. The Sundance is the higher end Jacuzzi, and has more options like the Calderas.
But our local Sundance dealer is further than any other we visited, and seemed a bit unorganized/ unimpressive. So we didn't plan on doing a wet test with them.
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We have a 2003 Optima, and really like it for many of the reasons you have listed.
The disposable filter thing is new for this year. Our spa has a pleated filter, and a disposable micro filter. Those cost about $15 each, and I replace it each water change. Add in four bottles of filter cleaner per year, and it brings my cost up to about $80.
Brewman
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I dont see why a disposable filter would be a deal breaker. I looked at the filter and its not flimsy or cheesy by any stretch of the means. As brewman stated...you must pay for the filter and the chemicals to clean it (not to mention the time involved with that as well). With that being said....it seems to me as if they would cost around the same to run the disposable or to run the others. Just depends upon where you would want to do the cost savings/time.
Any other thoughts on the filter. As far as the spa goes we were very impressed with the size, function, and overall feel of the 2005 Optima.
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Did you see the 2005 Maxxus at your dealer? I saw the 2004 and I've heard the new design is really nice. This new filter sounds interesting. I know I would pay $200 yearly for no filter cleaning, provided it works as well as Sundnce claims. Let me know if you checked out the new Maxxus.
Thanks
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You do not need to use the disposable filter. They also offer a conventional pleated filter.
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I know I would pay $200 yearly for no filter cleaning, provided it works as well as Sundnce claims.
We sure do live in a disposable world!! Use the standard filters and save the money. Then take your wife to dinner on the savings.
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I'll take her out to dinner on the way to the dealer to buy the new filter . Since I won't be cleaning filters we can go to a movie too. ;D
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Spatech...I dont see how the other filters will save you money. By doing the recommended filter changing/cleaning on the old version....we sat down and did the math. The price on both systems was within a dollar or two of each other.
For some folks not having to use the acids/cleaners it may be better for them.
As far as going and using the "conventional" filter....not sure if you can do that but will ask....but still if the costs involved are the same and I dont have to spend the time cleaning them...hmmm...I would tend to go with the disposable one.
As far as the 2005 maxxus...its just to big for us but they are putting in the 2005 models in the store today so we should be able to see it shortly!
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Guttboy,
I'm not sure what they're recommending as far as cleaning the filter but it’s not a costly ordeal at all. There is no way I can see it being even close to even between cleaning filters and throwing them away every few months and using new ones. I very thoroughly hose mine down and every other time I'll use a dillutable/soak filter cleaner to get it extra clean and its good to go.
Mowgli,
You better make it a matinee. BTW, for once take her to dinner at an establishment that doesn't have a drive-thru!!
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Has she been talking to you? I can't keep anything secret!! ;)
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Spatech,
With that being said....how are you supposed to clean the optima filters?
Based upon the dealer recommendations....you are to clean the filters with the acid substance etc every so often. If you factored in the cost of the cleaning supplies with that...and the recommended time of disposal/replacement for the microfilter etc....the way they made it sound is as if they are comparable in price.
Now if this is not the case please let me know. I want to be able to compare and contrast equally.
Any sundance reps have any other data on this as well???
Regards,
:)
PS...I am not stating I am getting a Sundance I just want to make sure that the data I am getting is accurate. I know a buddy of mine that has his HS Sovereign....he doesnt clean the filters any where close to what the HS dealer here recommends whatsoever. Is he doing himself an injustice??? Dont know...I am going off manufacturers suggested cleaning schedules.
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I clean my filters (Optima pleated) by soaking them in a commercial filter cleaning solution overnight, in a five gallon plastic bucket.
I use Brilliance's cleaner, since that's what my dealer carries. They also carry Baqua (same company). Far as I can tell, the two cleaners are identical, which I find facinating since I heard that only Baqua cleaner should be used with baqua soaked filters. But I digress........
Costs maybe $6 per bottle, and I toss it after each cleaning. Then a thorough rinse with the hose.
Also, I THINK that the filter cleaners are alkaline vs acidic.
The local Arctic dealer is where I sometimes get my chemicals, they are closer and a speck cheaper than my Sundance dealer. They offer filter cleaning in their facility. Not sure how much they charge for the service, but next time I go there I'm going to ask.
Brewman
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How about the new Hot Springs filters (Tri-x) they require no cleaning with any solution just put in the dishwasher.... at least that is what the HS salesperson told us..? That was a selling point for us. Any info on that??
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Jsimo,
The HS dealer stated that you still need to do degreaser and things on them. Putting them in the dishwasher is a nice ease of general cleaning but you will still have to put chemicals on them to fully clean them he stated...PS dont run it with soap powder either....LOL ;D
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Did you see Êthe 2005 Maxxus at your dealer? I saw the Ê2004 and I've heard the new design is really nice. This new filter sounds interesting. I know I would pay $200 yearly Êfor no filter cleaning, provided it works as well as Sundnce claims. Let me know if you checked out the new Maxxus.
Thanks
I was up at my Sundance dealer this past weekend to buy a new "microclean" filter for my Optima after a water change. I also checked out the 2005 Optima and Maxxus. The new Optima is fairly similar to my 2004. For those of you who are wondering what the difference between 2005 and the older ones, here's what I can remember:
- the new diverter valves are MUCH quieter compared to my '04
- addition of waterfall in rear center position
- foot dome is now rounder and lower(?), more dome-shaped, not pyramid shaped (no flat sides) like on the '04
- one of the two large jets moved from just below/left of the filter housing to the center of the foot dome
- the new Optima loses the 2nd control panel in the back center, it moves to the right rear and is now only a light control, does not control pumps
- new jet added to the center seat on the left side (just air nozzles there on my '04)
That's all I can think of on the Optima at the moment.
As for the Maxxus, it appears even more huge than before. It looked to be at least 4 or 5 inches deeper than the Optima. I think the sales lady said it's like 43 inches deep now. There are now three corner seats much like the Optima and one lounger in the front left corner (facing the left rear). Two waterfalls in the rear center. I don't remember much else, but it sure looks bigger and more expensive than ever. I think my dealer had a price of $10,899 or something on it. The downside is that it really looks like it doesn't seat all that many people compared to the size of the thing. The old Maxxus looked like you could get 10 people in it. The new one has only enough real seats for 4, plus whoever you want to cram into the cool down seat and in front of the filter housing (center of right side).
Anyway, that's what I remember from 15 minutes in the spa dealer on Saturday...
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Wheeler,
Thanks for the info. I am going to look at the new Maxxus on Friday.
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I think you will be more than happy with the 05 Optima. It is not only a classy spa, but well designed for all size people. The Aqua Terrace water feature is pretty cool. Sit back,listen to the water roll off of the plastic shroud and watch the LED light display. It is a nice touch to an already awesome therapy spa.Congrats to Sundance, I mean Jacuzzi, you know what I mean. Jacuzzi Brands Corporation.
hottubber.. ;D
The Maxxus is also very impressive. Large size spa with 4 VERY comfportable seating stations. This is not a spa to crowd alot of people in. Nice interior layout though... ;)
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We just want to see all the large premium tubs before we buy. The D1 Sarena Bay is still far and away our favorite. Before we spend that much money we want to check them all and be absolutely sure. Thanks to the info on this site we know where we should be looking.
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Wheeler,
Thanks for the info. I am going to look at the new Maxxus on Friday.
No problem, enjoy!