Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Neohcouple on March 14, 2005, 08:32:20 pm
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Hello all:
Just wanted to say thanks for all of the great info out there. This is, by far, the best hot tub forum out there. Very informative with friendly great people.
I am in Ohio & have narrowed down my choice to a 2005 Hot Spring Vanguard or Envoy in the pearl white color. I have wet tested both models & thoroughly enjoyed them both. I'm still not sure which one to go with yet.
Being that I have to research every major purchase I make to death (I know, I am borderline anal), I am still having trouble finding a good price for each of these tubs with all of the usual accesories (steps, cover cradle with gas springs, freshwater III ozonator, delivery, etc). No HS Spa Audio for me, just the basic accessories. Although, I want to compare apples to apples in terms of accesories (ie, Hot Springs ozonator instead of generic after market brand).
To me, buying a hot tub is like buying jewelry for my wife (which I despise doing). I never know if I am getting ripped off or not (I can't judge real gold, quality diamonds, or other subjective jewelry qualities, etc). Are there any price guides out there as to what a dealer pays (kinda like a new car?). Car shopping is easy b/c I know what the dealer pays. But with hot tubs, I have no idea. It seems like the prices vary tremendously by the amount of research I've done thus far.
I have received one quote & I'm not real thrilled with it. A local dealer has the regular price of each spa at about $400 ABOVE the MSRP according to HS. Granted he is giving me a discount of about $1,400 because of a recent local home & garden show. But for the regular price to already be $400 above the MSRP kind of bothers me to begin with.
Any help for a newbie is greatly appreciated!!!
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I paid $8,600 total for a 2005 Envoy in January. I am in South Florida and transportation could be higher to here than in your location. My price included steps, cover lift, chemicals, the ozonator, delivery, and set up. All OEM accessories.
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every dealer is different. they have diff overhead costs, territory issues, shipping costs and income parameters of the customers. Its kinda like realestate, why is that property worth so much more than this one and its only down the road? its what people in your area are willing to pay and the market will dictate that. its all what you think is fair.
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It seems like the price for hot tubs is a secret. If I am a dealer I would hope that I get the same price from the manufacturer as the guy down the street. Unless you are such a high volume dealer where the manufacturer may cut the cost by 10 percent.
All the dealers are very quick to answer all of our questions until price is involved. Why can't you say the MSRP is x dollars? Or we typically sell these for y dollars? Is there some special handshake we need to do first before you are willing to answer these types of questions?
If we know what a good price is then we can decide whether or not it is worthwhile to pay more for service and dealer location.
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Forget about MSRP, the two spas you are talking about should cost somewhere between $8,000 and $9,000 dollars without any major accessories like ozone and coverlift. The Vanguard should be less expensive than the Envoy.
There is a major difference between the Hotspring accessories and the generic accessories. For example, the Hotspring “Cover Cradle” should cost about $400 - $500 dollars, but a “Covermate I” should cost about $200 dollars. Also, the “Freshwater III” ozone should cost about $300 – $400 dollars, but a generic ozonator can cost sometimes less than $100 dollars. So if you are getting the Hotspring branded accessories you should be coming out ahead.
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My two cents.....can't really help you on a price point but if they are relatively close and you can 'handle' the higher price, I would say definitely go with the larger Envoy. You will love the extra room whether it is just you and a significant other or on the rare occassion that you entertain in your hot tub. Forget what you have heard....size does matter and the bigger the better!!!! IMHO
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Just wanted to say thanks for all for their input. I am learning more & more about spas every day because of this great forum. If anyone else has any thoughts, please feel free to send me personal message as well.
Thank you!!!!
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In MD I know that new HS grandees seem to go for around mid to high $9k. Some people here purchased tubs in 2004. The 2005 models will be more expensive, especially if these are models with the new dual moto massage, or other additional features.
The best you can do is try and compare prices in your area (by checking boards like this).
Sometimes prices are inflated specifically to allow for "show" discounts, sometimes not. If you are being asked to pay more than $8 or $9k I'd be leery. Some manufacturers say these tubs are prices at $11k or $12k and then "knock some off". While I am sure that someone probably does pay that much, they shouldn't. If the differences are closer to a few hundred dollars then it could just be variance in store costs, overhead, expenses (if the sell other things, or if they don't) for that particular dealer.
Another way to reduce spa prices is to wait for the 2006 models to come out and then pick up remaining stock on a 2005 model for a little less money.
Best of Luck!
-Ed
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My two cents.....can't really help you on a price point but if they are relatively close and you can 'handle' the higher price, I would say definitely go with the larger Envoy. You will love the extra room whether it is just you and a significant other or on the rare occassion that you entertain in your hot tub. Forget what you have heard....size does matter and the bigger the better!!!! IMHO
Yes, I tend to agree that bigger is usually better. However, the only thing that really bothers me about the Envoy is that there is no cooling off seat. This makes it difficult & somewhat awkward to enter/exit the hot tub. It is so much easier entering/exiting the Vanguard. I just afraid that someone may also slip & fall with the Envoy because it is so deep & difficult to get in/out of.
Any other thoughts on this? Thank you!!
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My 04 cost me 7400 + 250 for elec. hook up on clearance.
Got the usual chemicals, plastic steps, and drink caddy, and ozone.
If you put your steps where the control is, which works out to be about center of lounger. Sit down on edge of tub (fairly flat spot on top) and swing legs around. Then you can position your feet on top of crest in lounger or either side. A little practice making sure your feet are planted and it works fine.
When I'm 70, or less moble I might think different.
The crest does work great as a cool off seat after you are in. The grandkids sit sideways on the crest and slide left or right.
I do miss a cool off seat for ease of entrance and exit, but I do love my Envoy and the Captains chair.
Now the wife likes the step on the side to where you put your feet in the seat, but that seems I'm more slip prone there.
Coarse could be I'm trying to get in to fast.
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I should have said swing one leg at a time. I'm not that moble.
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I dont know about pricing but I would choose the Vanguard over the Envoy. The open seating design of the Vanguard allows you to enjoy it in a number of different ways. It may not seem like a big deal but being able to twist and turn and get a jet on any sore muscle is a plus. The Envoy has much more molded seats that can kind of lock you in to the way you have to sit. After having my HotSpring for over 2 years I use the jets in my spa completely different than I did when I first got it. Just my 2 cents. You cant go wrong with either one but for the way I use a spa the Vanguard is my choice. Good luck and enjoy.
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I have to admit that I am leaning towards the Vanguard as well. I definitely prefer a cooling off seat as the lounger (on the Envoy) is not as important. I am really excited to try out the new 2005 Vanguard model with the extra pump (haven't wet tested it yet). I wet tested the 2004 Vanguard model & felt it could definitely use the additional pump.
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Our local dealer quoted us several numbers. There are differences in cover lifters like mentioned before they can run from 100 bucks to 500 bucks for the dual pneumatic one.
They also do a deal on chemicals too. Be sure to factor that in...while some give you a 60 buck startup kit others throw in the whole shabang....
Steps are also a place that price goes up and down...take the 400 dollar hotsprings stairs or a generic wood brand.
Remember when comparing to compare APPLES to APPLES!
For us....Chas and others please let us know.....
2005 HS Envoy 10,000....thats with the dual pneumatic cover lifter and about 6 months worth of chems and the ozonator. If we went with a lower chemical kit and the lower coverlifter then it would be around 9,000.
2005 HS Vista 10,900...same as above...with it being 9,900 with the lower chemical kit.
Steps not included.
This seems on the high side from quotes in here but we need to really get down to brass tacks and see what you get compared to other dealers and brands.