Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Yorag on March 16, 2005, 11:54:36 am
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I finally got all my blisters repaired and the spa was working fine for a few months but now it is has developed a significant leak. The water level drops about 1" per day and this occurs whether or not the pump is running. I have filled it twice and left the pump off and the water level always drops all the way down to the (2) bottom suction outlets. This tells me that one or both of the drain outlets is the cause.
My understanding is that the only way to access the piping for these outlets is from the bottom. This apparently involves raising the spa off the ground and crawling underneath, digging out all of the foam insulation and looking for the leaks. There isn't any water visible inside the equipment area and since the spa has full foam insulation the other 3 access panels reveal nothing but packed foam.
So, does anyone have any experience to share with respect to making these types of repairs?
Or, perhaps I should just ask again if anyone would be willing to "Take My Cal Spa Please......." :-/
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If possible I would tip it on end. That is what I do and it makes it fairly easy to repair the suctions.
Gary
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gary,
I'm not sure that yorag knows that the suction are leaking. I would put the spa on cement blocks, 2 high in each corner and refill the spa. You can get under the spa this way and probe with a hollow aluminum rod to the area that water is coming from. Once found, dig gingerly through the foam to expose the leak.
I am not a service tech., but this is the way I've done it in the past. Does that make any sense? It has worked for me.
hottubber... ;D
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That certainly seems like the easiest solution, however I am concerned about whether or not the cabinet will support the weight of the spa when it's on it's side. Plus, I wouldn't be able to locate the leak when it's on it's side either. ???
I think the idea behind raising it up is that you can put a little water in it and actually see where the leak is.
I am just not thrilled with the thought of putting the spa up on blocks, crawling underneath, digging out foam and then trying to make repairs. :'(
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That certainly seems like the easiest solution, however I am concerned about whether or not the cabinet will support the weight of the spa when it's on it's side. Plus, I wouldn't be able to locate the leak when it's on it's side either. ???
I think the idea behind raising it up is that you can put a little water in it and actually see where the leak is.
I am just not thrilled with the thought of putting the spa up on blocks, crawling underneath, digging out foam and then trying to make repairs. :'(
"you need to know when to hold 'em and
know when to fold em.
Know when to walk away,
And know when to run."
:-[
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Might try some dye in the water as it should help you before, and during your dig through the insulation. Also makes pin pointing the leak easier. Never done it but have read about that method before.
"A 100 shot of Nitrious is like a hot chick with an STD........you know you want to hit it but your afraid of the consequences....."
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Might try some dye in the water as it should help you before, and during your dig through the insulation. Also makes pin pointing the leak easier. Never done it but have read about that method before.
That's a good idea! Thanks!
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The first thing I would do is..... call your local qualified service technician, he will know what to do! ;)
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They have those? -- Just kidding since I use to be a service tech -- not on spas though
r100rs
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It would be my guess that all the time the spa sat empty while waiting for Cal to answer with a fix for your shell allowed water to freeze in the lower lines comming from the lower intakes. This would cause the flex tubing to form cracks that may not have sufaced immediatly but eventually gave and started leaking.
I would do what both Gary and Hottubber suggested; tip the spa up on end and poke around until you find the wetter foam, start digging there. The foam will be darker where the leak has been the longest. If you don't find it right away put the spa on blocks and start where you dug moving inward until you find the leak.
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Yorag,
I hate to say it but, this is one of those situations where the white flag is required. Absorb your losses and move on. It doesn't seem that your Cal problems are going to stop here. There are alot of good brand spas available today, as you are now well aware. Do you really want to continue the Cal saga?
I am sure all of us here would like to see you happy again in your spa, I don't think it will happen with this one...
good luck and Happy St. Patty's day..
hottubber... ;D
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Chas and Hottubber are right. Look at what you have, an old tub that has been nothing but problems, with a shell that has been patched in maybe a dozen or more places (I got tired of reading the "take my......" post) and now something leaks, could be plumbing, could be the shell. I am by no means any kind of expert on spas, just an owner here, but it was time to let it go back when you had the blistering problem.
txwillie
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The weather here in California (SF Bay Area) hasn't been cold enough to freeze this winter, so I doubt that any of the flex pipes broke as a result of freezing. More than likely, a connection has come unglued or seperated. It was fine for about a month, then just started losing water.
It's not as simple as just going out and buying a new one and having it installed. 1) We can't afford to spend $6,000 right now on a new spa. 2) I have a hefty property tax bill and income tax bill that need to be paid next month. 3) Now that someone has built a $1,000,000 home directly behind mine, I no longer have easy access for installation and removal, a new spa would have to be rigged into my backyard with a crane.
I'd rather try to repair what I have than to be without a spa altogehter for an extended period of time. Unless of course one of you local California spa dealers wants to make me a super deal on a new one including removal and disposal of the old one...... ;)
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This may not be the answer your looking for,but have you thaught about buying a new spa?
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This may not be the answer your looking for,but have you thaught about buying a new spa?
Did you even bother to read the last post before asking this???
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Yorag,
I understand your situation and frustration. Take care of the leak as we stated earlier. Once you determine where the leak is, go ahead and fix it. You are between a rock and a hardplace, whatever that means.., do what you can to get through this. Keep us up to speed with the repair, I'm sure we can help along the way.
On the other hand, your neighbor built a million dollar home, property values now skyrocket, sell the house AND include the refurbished hot tub. Only kidding...
Good luck with the repair.
hottubber... ;D
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Just a thought, their is a product for hot tubs and whirl pool baths call Fix-A-Leak. Retails for $15.8 CDN.
It works like BarsLeaks which did a phenominal job on my radiator.
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Just a thought, their is a product for hot tubs and whirl pool baths call Fix-A-Leak. Retails for $15.8 CDN.
It works like BarsLeaks which did a phenominal job on my radiator.
Never put that stuff in a spa! It rarely works and if it does it is only a band-Aid and it will leak again very soon.
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Hi Yorag. Sorry to hear bout your Cal Spa. I had a leaking Cal Spa too a couple of years back. Didn't get it taken care of as I let it go too long and pretty soon the wood frame kinda glued to the concrete. There was no quetion then about turning it up on its side or anything as it wouldn't budge off the ground unless you wanted to start tearing it apart. Called a few techs and none of them wanted anything to do with it. Can't blame them in retrospect as I then tried this "digging" idea and didn't get very far before I said, you've got to be kidding.
Thus my decision to go with the Coleman and it's thermopane and steel frame design.
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Call these numbers:
(800) 822-7727
(909) 623-8781
(909) 947-7727
818 854-1777
(909) 623-7871
(909) 622-0042
Ask for these people:
Casey Lloyd, President
Shiva Noble, Vice President
Tammi Glover, Consumer Affairs Controller
Catherine Irving, Customer Service Supervisor
Get their emails and forward all your posts. Ask them for compensation for your purchase, your time, your inconvenience, etc.
Send open faxes to (909) 620-0717 regarding your problems.
Then, contact the BBB and the AG for So Cal and copy them all your correspondence to the company reps, your dealer, your local BBB, and your own states Attorney General's Office.
http://www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Business/CompanyReportPage_Expository.aspx?CompanyID=14059&hAKAID=12&hAddrID=12
http://caag.state.ca.us/
If your dealer won't help, do the same for them. Write letters, make phone calls, make noise. Your spa has caused you so much grief. Even if you only end up getting a replacement tub, it will be better than what you have.
I have helped customers get their problem spas replaced many times. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
It really sucks to have problems with a new spa. Have you been to:
http://www.ripoffreport.com/results.asp?q1=ALL&q5=Cal+Spas&submit2=Search%21&q4=&q6=&q3=&q2=&q7=&searchtype=0
Doesn't Cal Spa have a warranty? Or does it not apply?
If you have to repair it, use some food coloring and tip it up on its side if necessary. Try to locate the leak without moving the spa if possible.
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Spatexport,
First of all, the spa is no longer under warranty and the dealer I purchased it from is no longer in business. I went down this road during the repair of the blisters. I assumed I had a ten year shell warranty but it turned out it was only a 5 year. The balance of the spa was only covered by a 5 year warranty. The spa is about 8 years old.
And, for your information, Tammi Glover is no longer employed with Cal Spas.
I am also very familiar with Ripoffreport.com, the BBB, etc. as I went down that road with my last issue with them. If you visit the Ripoffreport site and search by Cal Spas, you'll see the report.
I think I'll add some food coloring to the water, let it leak a bit and then lift it on its side and start the search!
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Wonder what the average is for quality local dealer service? Like 6-10 take care of all of the warranties like you thought they would?
Wonder how close the warranties come to actually satisfying your $8000 or so worth of expectations?
Is the service from a local sales source really better than service from a non local purchase source? You don't get any feedback on the "mail order" or big box tubs; just negative comments by brand name supporters.
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Is the service from a local sales source really better than service from a non local purchase source? You don't get any feedback on the "mail order" or big box tubs; just negative comments by brand name supporters.
Buying from a local dealer, there is an expectation of warranty and satifsfaction that one might not expect from an on-line retailer or big box store.
The griping may also result because the selling dealer did infact differentiate themselves based on this aspect of the purchase, and for whatever reason did not follow through.
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Wonder what the average is for quality local dealer service? Like 6-10 take care of all of the warranties like you thought they would?
Wonder how close the warranties come to actually satisfying your $8000 or so worth of expectations?
Is the service from a local sales source really better than service from a non local purchase source? You don't get any feedback on the "mail order" or big box tubs; just negative comments by brand name supporters.
The reason a lot of dealers hold some anymosity towards the big box and internet retailers of spas is due to the response and flack we get from customers who purchased from them. We hear it all the time, "what do you mean you don't have the part in stock?" "They told me it would be chemical free." "The retailer told me me to call the manufacturer for warranty repairs." etc.... It gets frustrating to us in this business who pride ourselves on not only selling a high quality product, but also the customer service after the sale to help support our customers when they have questions about their tubs. It also proves that in the spa industry you definitly get what you pay for!
Jason,
Store Manager for a D-1, Caldera & Nordic Spas Dealer
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But who services the non pedigreed tubs? Somebody does. Local Caldera rep told me today that even the Rec Whse guys have some service here although most people seem to report that it is phone 24-7. Still if someone comes out, is this service as good as the pedigreed tubs?
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But who services the non pedigreed tubs? Somebody does. Local Caldera rep told me today that even the Rec Whse guys have some service here although most people seem to report that it is phone 24-7. Still if someone comes out, is this service as good as the pedigreed tubs?
It would vary. I do not think it is the quality of the service call that would be questioned but the timeliness. Exclusions are another frustration.
Here is an example that is not service oriented at all. Last summer I had numerous customers looking for replacement jet barrells for tubs purhased from Home Depot. These tubs were 3-4 years old. The jet series in question is longer being manufactured by WaterWay. The only option for these folks was to dig foam and have a new jet body installed or call all over North America to find someone that might still have stock.
There are many reasons why these tubs cost less money. One reason, in this case, was that the spa manufacturer in question purchased discontinued jets from WaterWay. WaterWay was selling them at a discount. The manufacturer of these spas could not help the customer, nor could we.
Pay now or pay later...you decide.
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Yorag,
I hate to say it but, this is one of those situations where the white flag is required. Absorb your losses and move on. It doesn't seem that your Cal problems are going to stop here. There are alot of good brand spas available today, as you are now well aware. Do you really want to continue the Cal saga?
I am sure all of us here would like to see you happy again in your spa, I don't think it will happen with this one...
good luck and Happy St. Patty's day..
hottubber... ;D
Although we all hate to admit it but what hottubber said may be true.
I am a repair tech in the medical equipment field and sometimes you need to cut your losses. I certainly would try the dye in the water to find the leak but at some point you do have to throw in the towel - it is expensive but how much more can you do? When a manufacturer doesn't stand behind it's product the end user (consumer) is $crewed!
If I were in your shoes, I don't have enough friends to lift the tub and put it on blocks. Now dig out the foam, fix the leak (probably the easiest of it all) and get friends to lift and put back. Also, if you have these friends - how many times do they want to do it. Assuming you can do it by yourself - how many times do you want to wrestle that beast.
Please don't take this the wrong way - I'm not some rich dude who can throw $8-10000 away, but as a person, I would need to end my misery (and hot tub ownership) soon.
Just my 2 cents!