Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: HotTubMan on March 09, 2005, 04:57:15 pm
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Again I’m just curious I’m not trying to stir anything up.
:-X
Ya right! Stir away my freind, stir away...
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Brace yourselves people. I feel a War & Peace type post head'n our way... ;D
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Would that be the Tolstoy or Wolfe version?
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I am just a simple consumer, and I don't have any inside information. So being a simple kind of guy, I look at it this way. If HotSpring is living off their reputation there would be nothing special or new or different about their spas. There would be no benefits to us consumers. Let's explore that just a bit.
1. Moto Message - unique in the industry. Upgraded this year to a double unit. Very effective.
2. Titanium heater - even if you used vinegar instead of water they warranty it for 5 years. The best heater in the business.
3. High quality as evidenced by the lowest warranty costs in the industry.
4. Broad, stable dealer network ensures service after the sale.
5. Ergonomics are exceptional for a wide range of people.
6. A wide variety of unique jets with interchangable locations between same sizes.
7. Maybe the only spa on the market that can be shimmed for uneven surfaces. This is because they build the frame underneath to be extremely strong and rigid. Then they fully encase the parts you can't see to protect them from rodents, or insects, or rot. Strong, durable, long lasting.
8. There is a lot of banter back and forth about the best way to insulate a spa, with strong arguments for various approaches. Irrespective of this controversial area, it is a fact that HS spas are probably the most energy efficient that you can buy today and since they are also the most reliable, there is not likely to be a downside to their full foam method.
9. If you take a look at the details you will discover that HS uses the best pumps, motors, controls, diverters, etc. available today. Their materials of construction are second to none.
10. The only spa on the market to use full filtering even with all pumps operating at maximum. A few months ago the filters were upgraded to a type that with care might last for the life of the spa.
I could go on, but the point is that there is no evidence to suggest that HS makes anything less than a state of the art product. Their QA program, their marketing, their distribution, every aspect of their operations in indicative that they are number 1 for a lot of very good reasons.
I am a business owner and executive myself. The HotSpring story is all about good management. I tell my people all the time that for a company to be viable over the long haul several things are necessary. Two of the key elements for business health are price and quality. In a crowded field (any industry) the two companies in the best position are: the one that is the low cost producer; and the one that has the best overall product. Every other player who is not one of these two has a problem. In the spa business HS might occupy both positions.
Regards,
Bill
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Chris would like everyone to know he was very impressed with Bill's response.
Yes, I was typing in the third person.
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excelent post Bill!!!! The only thing I have a slight gripe with is the remark about the heater.yes it is the best in the industry, but other manufacturers also use that same exact heater. Dimension one uses the same heater, and was the first company to use it. But overall that is one of the best posts I've seen on this board. I bet it'll even bring a tear to Chas' eye ;)
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There sure is a lot of "BEST" in that post. It's the one word I really question. Unless of course the product or components in question have been proven such.
I was going to break the post of Bills apart and point out other manufacturers that either use the same product or has the same benefit. I'll leave it with above paragraph other than to say that you would be mistaken in your comment about them being "probably the most energy efficient that you can buy today". I could ask for studies that show this and ask for comparisons against other spas showing this, but I’m easier to get along with than that!
Steve
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Great post Bill. Has your Hot Spring made you forget about your Caldera yet? I know when you purchased, it was a timing issue and the Envoy was available and the Caldera was not. Regardless, very happy you are enjoying your tub.
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2. Titanium heater - even if you used vinegar instead of water they warranty it for 5 years. The best heater in the business.
3. High quality as evidenced by the lowest warranty costs in the industry.
5. Ergonomics are exceptional for a wide range of people.
6. A wide variety of unique jets with interchangable locations between same sizes.
7. Maybe the only spa on the market that can be shimmed for uneven surfaces. This is because they build the frame underneath to be extremely strong and rigid. Then they fully encase the parts you can't see to protect them from rodents, or insects, or rot. Strong, durable, long lasting.
8. There is a lot of banter back and forth about the best way to insulate a spa, with strong arguments for various approaches. Irrespective of this controversial area, it is a fact that HS spas are probably the most energy efficient that you can buy today and since they are also the most reliable, there is not likely to be a downside to their full foam method.
9. If you take a look at the details you will discover that HS uses the best pumps, motors, controls, diverters, etc. available today. Their materials of construction are second to none.
10. The only spa on the market to use full filtering even with all pumps operating at maximum. A few months ago the filters were upgraded to a type that with care might last for the life of the spa.
I could go on, but the point is that there is no evidence to suggest that HS makes anything less than a state of the art product. Their QA program, their marketing, their distribution, every aspect of their operations in indicative that they are number 1 for a lot of very good reasons.
Regards,
Bill
Bill...
There is so much to your post that makes one or more directly ME... go hummmmmmmm ....not all of what you share is fully accurate.....Let me say this I think Hot Springs builds a genuinely nice spa and offers excellent customer service and is a recognized industry leader because they have earned they reputation by taking great care of their customers.....and building a very good product...
but just addressing a few of your points like...
#2 for example another mentioned D-1 of using the very same heater.....Marquis using a different heater but offers the very same warranty and since you mention vinegar in the spa if your pump seal failed because of this Marquis is the only ones not to have an exclusion on their warranty for pump seal failures due to water care mis- management....( if another does please it share it...I know of no others)
# 3.. I am unsure of how you came up with this sat but I can give you the name of a tech who would after 20 years of servicing spas would strongly disagree with you....again not saying they do not build a fine spa but your point here has many holes in it....
#6.. Hot Springs does have some great jets and I think the best "names" for them in the industry but many others offer interchangeable jets a nice feature but hardly unique to a Hot Springs spa....
#7... When done "properly"...you can also shim a Marquis...
Not meant to upset any of the Happy Hot Springs owners they make a very nice spa and do deserve to always be mentioned among the best out there...but not quite the King of the Hill in the ways some want people to believe....
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Chas would like everyone to know that he agrees with Chris, who agrees with Bill.
Awesome post Bill.
And the heater used in the Tiger River spas is very similar to the heater D1 uses, but only in that they are both made by Laing, and are stainless steel. Other than that, they will not interchange, have different wattages, temp sensors and different other components.
Does this mean I get the night off?
:D
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Does this mean I get the night off?
:D
You know what...you've earned the week off buddy!
that way I can make some unedited posts if I can get Bill to take the week off too! ;D
Steve :)
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And the heater used in the Tiger River spas is very similar to the heater D1 uses, but only in that they are both made by Laing, and are stainless steel.
:D
The heater used on D-1 Spas is NOT made of stainless steel. It's made out of inkoloy(SP?). It should also be noted that Watkins recently started using the same exact heater on their caldera line of Spas.
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Inkoloy - I always thought that was stainless steel. Now I have research to do.
And I haven't seen the Caldera heater yet.
The HotSpring heater is not made by Laing - it's not even close. Can you say, "learned a valuable lesson?"
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When did they change from the Laing heater? I had a 2004 with a double trumpet version of the Laing fast flow.....
I do know that the first generation of "No-Fault" was true heat but after the issues with them Watkins dropped them.
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Yes, many HotSpring tubs shipped with the Laing heater during the transition. I'm in a rush out the door to meet a truckload of spas - so I'll try to take time later to find the date they started the new heater, but they didn't drop True Heat right away. Actually they sort of kept them alive by working with them to find the problem, which was nothring more than a crimp connector. They replaced that with a silver-solder connector and the problem went away. Still, they had learned a valuable lesson by only having one supplier, so they contacted Laing and had the new heater designed.
The Laing heater, which we call the "Tri-bend," though I like your name better, comes standard in all Tiger River tubs, but also we use that heater as a retrofit for any tub (HS or TR) needing a replacement for whatever heater it may have been made with.
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The heater used on D-1 Spas is NOT made of stainless steel. It's made out of inkoloy(SP?). It should also be noted that Watkins recently started using the same exact heater on their caldera line of Spas.
It's called incoloy, and it is a mix of iron, nickel, and chromium I think. Here's a google hit: http://www.suppliersonline.com/propertypages/IncoloyDS.asp
-Ed
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Interesting.......................... ::)
Actually, it would be more interesting (to me anyway) to know what brand of spa you sell.
What spas do you sell? Are you a pool retailer who is looking to pick up spas? Have you been doing it a while?
-Ed
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It was a good post but.........We all need to be a little careful when saying "only one in the industry and best in the industry".....Because thats not ALWAYS the case. :)
True!
But I think Bill's post went to the heart of the thread, which was the allegation (in the form of a question) that Hot Springs was resting on its laurels.
While many of HS positives are shared, in part, by other tubs, some believe HS has the whole package. That is certainly a subject of debate. But it should quite clearly answer the true question of "is Hot Spring stopping innovation".
The answer is a resounding "no".
-Ed
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HOT SPRINGS HAS BEEN AROUND FOR A LONG TIME BUT NOTHING TO MODERN OR EXCITING LOOKING ON THE WEB LATELY I HAVE COME ACROSS MANY NEW COMPANYS ONE THAT DREW ME IN WAS A COMPANY CALLED UNITED SUPER SPAS THE PEOPLE THERE REALLY HAVE A LOT OF INFO FOR THE CONSUMER AND TRUTH WHICH I VALUE THERE PRICES ARE A LOT LESS THAN THE DEALERS AROUND ME DOES ANY ONE HAVE INFO ON THEM ? WOULD LOVE SOME INPUT BEFORE MY PURCHASE THANK YOU JOE
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HOT SPRINGS HAS BEEN AROUND FOR A LONG TIME BUT NOTHING TO MODERN OR EXCITING LOOKING ON THE WEB LATELY I HAVE COME ACROSS MANY NEW COMPANYS ONE THAT DREW ME IN WAS A COMPANY CALLED UNITED SUPER SPAS THE PEOPLE THERE REALLY HAVE A LOT OF INFO FOR THE CONSUMER AND TRUTH WHICH I VALUE THERE PRICES ARE A LOT LESS THAN THE DEALERS AROUND ME DOES ANY ONE HAVE INFO ON THEM ? WOULD LOVE SOME INPUT BEFORE MY PURCHASE THANK YOU JOE
I love when people scream at me and use run-on sentences. Unfortunately, due to this I was honestly unable to figure out what you were trying to say.
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Joe,
I would stick with a brand name tub who is made by somebody with a local dealer.
There are many many sites on the web claiming anything from "Earth Friendly Constuction" to "Best" etc.
Be aware that the biggest companies didn't get that way by accident, and keep in mind that you could walk into just about any hot tub store in the world and have the sales staff tell you why you shouldn't buy the top brand spas.
If there are other more specific questions you have, I would recommend starting a new thread.
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Here's a cut and paste from the "Stainless Steel" info web page:
What is Stainless Steel?
Stainless steel is essentially a low carbon steel which contains chromium at 10% or more by weight. It is this addition of chromium that gives the steel its unique stainless, corrosion resisting properties.
The chromium content of the steel allows the formation of a rough, adherent, invisible, corrosion-resisting chromium oxide film on the steel surface. If damaged mechanically or chemically, this film is self-healing, providing that oxygen, even in very small amounts, is present. The corrosion resistance and other useful properties of the steel are enhanced by increased chromium content and the addition of other elements such as molybdenum, nickel and nitrogen.
So we are both right: the Laing pump is made of Incoloy, and that's a type of Stainless Steel.
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Just noticed PoolToSpa deleted all posts on this thread, including the original post. Was this guy just a troll?
_Ed
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#2 for example another mentioned D-1 of using the very same heater.....Marquis using a different heater but offers the very same warranty and since you mention vinegar in the spa if your pump seal failed because of this Marquis is the only ones not to have an exclusion on their warranty for pump seal failures due to water care mis- management....( if another does please it share it...I know of no others)
Beachcomber
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Hydropool also.
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Beachcomber
When did Beachcomber switch to a inkoloy heater with a 5 year warranty? Last I heard Beachcomber standard warranty was 2 years.
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When did Beachcomber switch to a inkoloy heater with a 5 year warranty? Last I heard Beachcomber standard warranty was 2 years.
I thought the question was whether not Beachcomber (or others) would replace a pump seal regardless of watercare while still under warranty. Maybe I read it wrong? ???
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I thought the question was whether not Beachcomber (or others) would replace a pump seal regardless of watercare while still under warranty. Maybe I read it wrong? ???
I see reference to heater warranty and no fault pump seal warranty in the quote. I wouldn't say you read it wrong, we both read it right.