Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: stuart on January 14, 2005, 08:01:06 pm
-
There has been a lot of questions over the last year about these Master Spa “super sales”. After reading the topic about Master Spa steel frames I was thinking about posting this there but then got a call from a friend in KS that told me Master was having one of these sales in his area this weekend and it sounded “hokey” so I thought I would share some of how this program worked…
Master spa has a guy named Baele working for them that sets up super sales all over the country. He advertises them as a home show when in reality it is a show that they own and set up to look like a homeshow but directs the attention of everyone towards their main booth Master Spas. Here is a bit about how it works....
They layout the show so that Master is in the "Prime" location (able to see them anywhere in the show and the booth is much flashier) then bring in lines that they have obvious advantages over like soft tub and/or free flow and now I hear they are bringing Saratoga in. They set the price on the competitive models to make the Master seem like a better deal.
As people come to the first booth they are given info and a colored bag according to what type of shopper they are i. e., Green = hot prospect sellable, red = looky-loo don't bother with them, Yellow = Cheap spa just looking for price and so on....
I talked in great length with Him about this at a dealer meeting over many drinks and was shocked at the way they set themselves up to control the customer and lead them in the direction they wanted. He even said they could hire high school kids or non industry pros to work the none Master booths and then put the Sharks in the Master booth.
They are doing one of these in Kansas city this weekend!
Here is an outtake from a national radio talk show consumer advocate talking about a Large Master Spa dealer doing one of these shows!
Troubleshooter.com
by - Tom Martino
July 7, 2004
“…I also became concerned when they started having “Spa Shows” and wanted me to advertise that there would be many manufacturers and dealers represented. In reality, these shows were based on a phony premise. There were not a variety of manufacturers available. Instead, the owners bought some “off brand” spas to have them displayed in an effort to make it look like it was a diversified show.
While consumers could purchase some of these off brands and used spas (that had been taken in on trade) … the real purpose of the show was to sell Master Spas. And ****Spas was the ONLY dealer there.
The claim that multiple manufacturers were represented was a lie.
Sales tactics I observed also troubled me. I noticed that “pricing” was completely arbitrary based on what they thought they could extract from the consumer. And in general, the prices were very high and not good deals. There were also many other tactics I found distasteful – but there is no need to go into detail. Suffice it to say that I realized **** Spas was no longer a company I wanted associated with my name.
To this day **** Spas still uses my name on their “on-hold” voice message, they display banners proclaiming an association with me and they claim I “endorse” them.”
I have put ****’s in place of the dealers name as I don’t feel it is really pertinent here. He is associating this Home show with the dealer without knowing that this is a Master Spa organized and endorsed program. Master Spa factory reps and sales team are doing this all over the country and you could do a similar write up on just about any large master spa dealer in the nation…
Just on a side bar; Master seems to have no problem letting this team of “hit men” go into a smaller dealers area and selling without them…
Any of you come across one of these shows yet?
-
Stuart...
There were two shows last year here and I went really as a consumer as we had not yet opened and I was still just shopping for a spa....I think it is simply a scam "Again this is not about the Master spa and how they compare" to others but the practice they seem to often take in selling their spas....I was highly disappointed as I had hoped to be able to do some one stop shopping only to find out all it was Master and Soft tub...but promoted as a big show with many makers..
-
Our local Master Spa dealership is right up the street from my place of work. They always run the same add week after week, advertising huge closeout prices, with seemingly unbelievable 70% off sales, or trade in offers for $3500 sight unseen, etc...If you buy this weekend.
They may make a heckuva spa, but I was put off enough by their advertising to not even shop there.
Also, I think at one time they offered some program where after so many years, you got all of your money back. Huge red flag, IMHO...
Brewman
-
Personally speaking i feel that these tactics are generally a cover up for a lesser product, they also make our industry look very shady as well. Thankfully no one in my area does programs like these. Also i should note that Saratoga Spas are a very good brand of spas made here in New York State. IMHO they are a better value then anything that Master Spas offers.
-
Personally speaking i feel that these tactics are generally a cover up for a lesser product......
I would agree with the general concensus here that there's no accounting for 'lack of taste' regarding advertising by MS. It's a shame that it is carried over into perceptions of their products and quality. MS is a fine spa--at least mine is....and I'd like to think I didn't get the '1-in-a-million' copy. I'll bet poolboy's perception/opinion would be different without this influence.
-
I'll just add that the local MS dealership is either #1 or #2 in sales depending on who you believe and they have never engaged in these practices. This past year they also became a hydropool dealer as well. And no I don't own a Masterspa. They are well known for thier pink trucks, which really seems to work as when anyone around here who doesn't own a spa, talks about looking they mention the pink trucks.
-
I was wondering what this Master Sale was all about. I have a rather small Master dealer in my region. Last year they approched me to join in on this HUGE home improvement show. There was one stipulation, I could only display my inground pool products. No spas. The cost was neglegible. ???
After about 2 minutes of thinking what was going on, I declined. I did visit the Super Sale on that weekend, needless to say, the first display inside the building was Master Spas. There were a couple of non related booths in the building. Soft Tub was there also. In total, I don't think there were 12 different booths, and of course the last booth was Master Spas.
What a scam. It made me feel real fuzzy when I saw that my wife and I were the ONLY consumers in the show. ;D
In closing, I believe that Master will continue to try to lure unsuspecting prospects to this type of venue across the country. My word of advise to all prospects;
BEWARE.... there are legitimate spa dealers in every region. Don't be tricked into these tactics. ;)
-
Well out of those 12 booths you probably had 1 Master Spa booth, 1 Downeast spa booth and 1 Freedom spa booth. So 1/4 of the booths where Master spas!
-
After going to three different local masterspa dealers in the Detroit area I purchased a LSX1050 ,$ 2200.00 cheaper than any dealer offer at a masterspa supersale. No color coded bags, no high pressure sales pitch, which I recieved at every other brand of spa I looked at. Everyone I saw at this show worked for masterspas,no high school kids or homeless people or whatever. People are not as stupid as you seem to think. No one is going to spend that kind of money unless they want to. Your whole liife seems to revolve around bashing masterspa, get over it. Also this show was a legitimate health and fitness show. The masterspa area was at the very back of the arena.
-
mowgli1...
I don't believe there was any bashing of a Master Spas dealer here. I think we were all relating to experiences that we encountered while attending these spa shows.
The Master brand is probably a fine spa, don't take this forum the wrong way. No one here is trying to bash anyone. You get out of it what you perceive in the reading of the topics. :P
-
Well, I can report from the Las Vegas area that MasterSpa runs a "show" almost every week (ads in the paper). Now common sense is gonna tell you that no area can support such a "show" every week, not even Las Vegas! Sounds like those people can give used car salesmen a run for their money!
-
After going to three different local masterspa dealers in the Detroit area I purchased a LSX1050 ,$ 2200.00 cheaper than any dealer offer at a masterspa supersale. No color coded bags, no high pressure sales pitch, which I recieved at every other brand of spa I looked at. Everyone I saw at this show worked for masterspas,no high school kids or homeless people or whatever. People are not as stupid as you seem to think. No one is going to spend that kind of money unless they want to. Your whole liife seems to revolve around bashing masterspa, get over it. Also this show was a legitimate health and fitness show. The masterspa area was at the very back of the arena.
Mowgli,
Sorry you feel that I have "defecated in your wheaties"!
If you feel that "my whole life seems to revolve around bashing Master spas" then you obviously haven't read most of my posts! I think it's time to go hang out with Baloo the Bear for awhile and get back to the "Bear Necessities"!
It's funny that you are in Detroit because that's where the guy that sets up these shows is? Most of his top "hit men" are also, perhaps you know a few of them?
If you want Master Spa bashing; I have pictures, customer feedback letters, energy studies, warranty logs, ex-dealer testimonials and a lot of other info that I could use to simply "bash" the product however, I don't feel that would be in anyone's best interest.
These shows exist, I didn't make them up nor did I make up any of the way that they are done. I'm sure it changes from area to area and dealer to dealer but it is typical of Master spas!
Also, your right the WCSX Health & Fitness Show was a legitimate show which many Master spa dealers participate in shows other than the ones they set up but if the factory goes into a show where they are not the coordinators then they at least are the sponsors and have a say so as to who from the competition is allowed and who is not. Check for yourself and you will see they were a major sponsor of that show.
I do have a question for you though....What do you think the dealer in Tucson feels about the Master rep selling a spa to you and shipping it into his area? When I was a dealer for them I found that they had no respect for territory of dealers especially when it came to certain people like the guy in Detroit!
BTW, I've said this before and I will continue to say it....If your happy with your purchase and your dealer GREAT! That means this one purchase has worked for you but understand...
I'm not one guy with one spa, I sold and serviced thousands of them! This is what I do for a living and guess what? That alone gives me more credibility in the experience dept than it does you, because you now own one of their spas and love it doesn't give you the experience required to judge what I'm say about the way the factory does business.....
If you get some free time why don't you go back through some of my past posts and see how just how much time I really spend on Master and how much I spend on trying to be a help to new owners like yourself with water quality and other issues, it might skew your outlook as to what my life "revolves" around. ;)
-
I went to a "spa show" about 8 months ago just on the norht side of Charlotte, NC. The papers made it out like it was for a number of brands. When we got there I noticed an odd sign on the ticket (entry). ABSOLUTELY NO REFUNDS AFTER ENTRY. After we got in it became apparent why the sign was there. ONLY master was displayed. I talked to one of the "owners" who had flown out to run the show for the new local dealer. HOne of his comments that displayed his sales model was "why would you not want to get EVERY dollar from a potential client".... This was AFTER I told him I was thinking of setting up a shop and ONLY offering models (non-master) between $4,500 and $7,500.
-
These shows exist, I didn't make them up nor did I make up any of the way that they are done. I'm sure it changes from area to area and dealer to dealer but it is typical of Master spas!
Since several people have seen these shows and several people myself included have stated that they don't occur in our local area. So is this an optional thing encouraged by Master Spa, or is this a technique dreamed up by a few dealers?
-
Since several people have seen these shows and several people myself included have stated that they don't occur in our local area. So is this an optional thing encouraged by Master Spa, or is this a technique dreamed up by a few dealers?
Bill..
From what I understand it is the Master company and since the shows take place across the entire country that makes sense as well....
-
Since several people have seen these shows and several people myself included have stated that they don't occur in our local area. So is this an optional thing encouraged by Master Spa, or is this a technique dreamed up by a few dealers?
Master does not "demand" any dealer to follow any of their sales programs including the CashBack vouchers however, your participation puts you in better standing politically!
One thing I will say for the Master team, they really do know how to sell spas but I don't always agree with the ethics of their choices.
Master Spas themselves seem to follow the guy that works for them that I mentioned..... He is just a rep but is responsible for more of their sales program than anyone.
-
Ive been to so called home shows, where other dealers were there (Spa Depot brand, Jacuzzi, SUndance, Coast ) and did get to look at various brands. Ive also seen other manufacturers do the same thing, where only their spas were available to purchase. HS dealer locally does it here all the time, has two stores and goes to set up at the malls he is close to, calling it spa mega-show - so big we had to use two malls!
Personally, I do own a MS. Didnt buy at the shows though. I just think theyve found a niche way of selling their product, as others do in the spa business or any other industry.
-
In light of the topic Mendo started on the Master spa sales I thought I would bump this up.
This is the topic that mowgli and I had somewhat of a debate and then what I feared would happen to him did....
One of the biggest fans of Master on this site is WindSurfDawg. Windy is a prime example of the fact that the product can be sold on it's own merits and does not need deceptive tactics and consumer games. His spa has been great for him and I'm sure others but the company seems to follow the lead of a less than ethical person heading up the sales end.
BTW, Windy is not some uneducated guy from a back alley somewhere but an intelligent and canny shopper so you can draw your own conclusions about the quality of the product. My problem is that the issues arising from how the company handles their sales and customer relationships might outweigh ownership of a Master nationwide. I think the factor that can tip the scales to the positive in this case for Master would be the quality of dealership. Obviously when you hear stories like Windy's you have to know that Master also has some good and reputable dealers out there.
I would say that in the case of Master your much better buying from a showroom than from a show so that you can build that dealer relationship first hand and not be caught up in their show team circle!!
-
As a happy Master Spa owner I simply don't understand what all this bashing is about. I live in NJ and follow the "home shows" fairly regularly and have never heard of such an event. (I'm not saying they don't do that) I did however see a Sundance "Factory sale" at a closed gas station with factory reps. on hand and about 10-15 spas. They tried to hard sell me (I thought I was moving so I was looking into possibility of another spa). I understood their purpose. The Price they offered me was above the one the actual Sundance Dealer, (3 miles away) had quoted me 3 months earlier. That dealer was extremely reputable (I had also visited him during my 1st researching for a Spa) and I would have gladly bought from him if I thought the Sundance was as good a product as Master was.
Face it Master makes a great product! For the money I spent I never have to decide which seats get therapy and which don't (No diverter valves). I've had one jet break in the 18 months I've owned my spa and Master sent me a box of 3 new ones! The spa has plenty of jet power (more than HS for example) and is a good product. My utility bills haven't risen that much and I've enjoyed using it.
It seems like you guys can't wait to complain about this product. As I see it Master is 3rd in line (in sales) behind Sundance and HS and it's making everyone nervous. Well go ahead.......I don't know anything and my spa is a piece of junk.........tell me something I haven't heard before.
-
I would love to know what third line in sales your talking about Drifter? I wasn't aware that any of the industry numbers have been posted by any reputable trade organization?
The only way that you could really tell who was selling or producing the most spas would be to find out from the acrylic manufactures who was ordering the most from them and this number would not include specialty materials like those used by D1 and HotSpring.
-
Drifter
Are you high on something....please go back and read the threads...and please show me where someone is bashing the spa Master builds....seems to be people are not happy about their marketing but no one is bagging on the spas....I think most people have gone out of there way to say the spas are fine....not having a diverter value in spa is not unique to Master by the way but I am glad it makes you happy....I am unsure as to why you try and make this into people picking on Master.. No one is out there bashing the spas but again twisting and turning of things seems to be the Master way so why would someone who owns one be any different....
-
And the gloves come off...................
I must say, out of all of the spa owners who contribute to this forum on a regular basis that those that own a master spa product are very loyal and passionate about what they own. This is something that should be welcome, b/c it means that you are satisfied with your purchase and very happy with the product. Where the problem lies is when we try to point out things about the Master Spas as a COMPANY from purerly a marketing and sales tactics aspect everyone seems to think that we are bashing the PRODUCT, when in fact we aren't.
Another point that should be made is this statement of Master Spa being third in sales in the industry??? where did this fact come from??? I personally find it hard to believe that a company that does not have dealers all over the country is out selling those manufacturers who have established dealers in every state. Most people aren't going to argue that Watkins and Sundance/Jacuzzi are 1-2 in sales, but after them it gets a lil murky, but it's a safe bet that Marquis, Dimension One, & Cal Spas can't be all that far behind in terms of sales. Is master in the top ten for sales??? Absolutely, Number 3??? That's highly disputable.
-
BTW, the last time I looked the LSX, the 1050, the LS557 and all of the DownEast line used diverters in addition to every spa with a waterfall or waterfall pillow have diverters on them. I think diverters are quite common on the Master products...
-
You know the coupon I posted the link to in the other thread......here is what you get for it...I pasted.....it...by the way I choose Hot Springs as the Brand I was looking for.....but here is what you coupon was for
POOL AND SPA
SHOW
Present this Coupon at the
Spa Pool and Patio Show
&
Health, Fitness & Travel Show
January 7, 8 & 9
And recieve
a
Value Package with purchase from the Master Spas Booth
To Windsurf.....
Truly and with all sincerity I am very happy for you and that you like your spa the way that you do...I hope that it gives you great service for many years to come....these posts were never intended to take away from the Spa Master builds.....but it started with a Master dealer who claimed to be the largest in his area telling absolute lies about another line....and it turned into some of the things that Master does to promote their spas.....again I do not think you will find anyone here Saying they build a poor spa....but the shows are something they do and in "my experience" with them, they were misleading......I wish you the best Dog.......enjoy your Hot water....
-
DAAAAD! The boys are fighting again!!! :'(
-
Come on Chas....let's jump into this one! ;D
Good to see we're all pumped and ready for spring!
One day when we actually do a WTB reunion and all get together, it will have to have an altimate fighting challenge theme I'm thinking! ;)
Steve - Geko Roman Wrestler & kick boxing specialist (not to be confused with the looney toon nutcase specialist ;D)
-
bubba stu,
You are "da man"....peeling red head and all! Thanks for the kind comments....
And you are right on the money (as usual :)) regarding the diverters. My LSX has two.....one that diverts between the foot jets and the lounger jets....another that diverts between the whirlpool jets in the Xtreme seat and the other therapy jets in the Xtreme seat. I find both diverters to be very suitable and I don't feel them to offer any compromise. The waterfall controllers don't really divert--they just diminsh/shutoff the flow to the waterfalls.
Mendo,
You too are "da man".....I'm sorry that your MS experiences have turned you away from the line in much the same way that, I'm sure, there are many happy Sundance owners who are sorry that my experiences with an inept Sundance dealer turned me away from the line. Sundance makes a great spa but, for individual consumers, like you and I, it's only as good as the retailers who hawk it.....and the same goes for MS and any other spa.
Yeah, I filled out the coupon and got the same result as you....even more evidence that this is a Master Spa centric show with that value pack waiting for me at their booth.....oooo, I can hardly wait.....I'll have to put on my Fred McMurray ("My Three Sons") mask since that's the name I used on the coupon! And some poor schmuck with an email address of fm9999@aol.com is probably gonna get bombarded with spa-m. :D
-
And some poor schmuck with an email address of fm9999@aol.com is probably gonna get bombarded with spa-m. :D
Hey wait a minuet! That's my other email address ;) ;)
-
lol...gee Stuart I thought I was the only who thought of you and schmuck at the same time...lol...just teasing....you are da man.... ;)
-
lol...gee Stuart I thought I was the only who thought of you and schmuck at the same time...lol...just teasing....you are da man.... ;)
Man....The abuse I take here! I could walk out and talk to my crew if I wanted this abuse!! ;D
-
lol...man....but who loves you more us or them.... ;D
-
lol...man....but who loves you more us or them.... ;D
Well at least I don't pay you guys!! ;)
-
...and we've been meaning to talk to you about that. We want to start getting paid. ;)
-
...and we've been meaning to talk to you about that. We want to start getting paid. ;)
Oh no. And I suppose the pay will be based on the number of posts, right?
:-[
-
Oh no. And I suppose the pay will be based on the number of posts, right?
:-[
Oh yes! You didn't know? Once you hit 1500 you get a per post royalty check from WTB unless your a moderator or somehow cleared your posts....I think the program is going to discontinued any day though but those of us that made it are grandfathered in! :D 8)
-
Story of my life.
Well not really, but what else can I say?
-
what else can I say?
Like thats a problem for you and I?!? ;)
-
Do you all opine that the market for spas is increasing?
Industry shows whether they be antiques, hydro, sporting goods, etc. attract more consumers and increase both the participant's market exposure and the industry's demographic profile.
It appears that the invisible hand is at work. Questionable sales tactics motivated by greed are resulting in brand recognition, satisfied (with the tub) spa owners, and wider markets.
Many of the largest and most successful companies in the world were started and ran by people that were viewed by their contemporaries as ruthless, unscrupulous, greedy, and dishonest. We all rely on many of their products and services today.
In the game of "king of the hill", the object of the game is to be the king. All the other players try to push the king off the hill.
Who is king of the hill? Only time will tell.
-
Who is king of the hill?
That would be Watkins (HotSpring, Tiger River, Hot Spot, Solana and Caldera).
Thanks for asking.
;)
-
Besides Watkins, which other hot tub manufacturers are divisions of publicly held corporations?
Watkins is definitely "big".
Do Caldera tubs have gate valves?
-
Hello everyone! Newbie here!
I wish I would have found this forum prior to buying my hot tub.
I just came back from a "Mater Spa blow out sale" in Illinois. Our family just purchased from there. Last night we were driving home (after visiting American Sale), and saw many of their roadside signs. We found a tub that we liked and put a deposit down. When we got home, I did some research on the Hyro Spa tubs and was pretty happy with the purchase....so far.
They were accommodating in having it deliver the next day (today), albeit I wish I would have waited a week. When the delivery men showed up, there were no manuals, like we were told there would be. There were a couple of additional items that were suppose to be included, that also didn't show up. I'm told I should call and make an appointment for them to bring them. :-/
I'll report back on the service I get and on the tub.
I'm looking forward to reading this forum more as it's already been of great help.
.