Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Chris_H on February 14, 2005, 11:05:25 am
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Hello All,
So I was doing my occasional, wet testing of spas this weekend. I tested the Sundance Marin.
I tested the Optima last year and enjoyed it much more than the Grandee. Sorry to the Hotspring folks. I am expecting better results this year with the dual moto-massage. I will tell you how that goes in about 2 weeks or so.
I was extremely impressed with the Marin. I am a tall guy (6’2’’) and I can say I did not fit in the Marin’s lounge, however I can say unequivocally anyone under 5’10’’ would fit in this unit perfectly and NOT float in the lounge. I enjoyed the massage on the 6 rotary jets in the lounge. These six jets gave me arguably the best massage in a spa in a long time. However, I definitely hate the wrist jets on all spas due to the fact that it tends to hit a very sensitive area when I move from seat to seat. This lounge is only found in the Marin and the Altamar.
Including the lounge the Marin has 4 therapy seats. The other three seats have the Fluidix and Vortex jets in them. I am a very big proponent of the Fluidix jets due to their versatility and dependability (very few warranty related issues ask any dealer).
The seat next to the lounge had 2 Fluidix Intelli-Jets on top of each other. I had those two jets oscillating up and down and I also changed them to be straight jets. This seat is a lot like one of the Optima’s corner seats. Having the jets oscillating up and down does a good job of massaging the spinal column.
I then moved to the “Accu-Sage” seat. This seat has 10 Fluidix-ST jets. I hate this seat. I hate seats the push me out of the seat and spill all the water coming out of the jets. It is just annoying. How this seats works is pretty interesting. With the air off, the jets oscillate side to side, but with the air on with jets hit you straight. This seat gives a great deep tissue massage with the air off and on, but I definitely could not sit in the seat full blast with the air on. Obviously, some people like that type of massage.
I then shifted my butt over to the other corner seat. This seat has jets that are in the position of a triangle. The top jet was a Fluidix Intelli-Jet oscillating side to side and the bottom two jets were the Vortex jets. I love the Vortex Jets. They did a great job massaging the lower back. I would recommend having the Vortex Jets for anyone with lower back pain. Good pressure with some sort of swirling motion.
Please ask away, if you have any questions. By the way, I can also give a review of the Sundance Bahia if you guys want.
I am probably going to test the Hotspring Vanguard (this better impress me a lot or I will be pissed) and Jacuzzi Premium J-385 (it probably won’t change my mind on this LTP brand, but I am going in with an open mind) in the near future.
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Hello All,
I am probably going to test the Hotspring Vanguard (this better impress me a lot or I will be pissed) and Jacuzzi Premium J-385 (it probably won’t change my mind on this POS brand, but I am going in with an open mind) in the near future.
HEHE, couldn't have said it better myself!!!!!! CHEAPER isn't better.
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Chris I don't know how you can be sure that no one will float in the lounger in the Sundance Marin.
It's been my experience that some people float in some seats and don't in others. I don't belive there is a spa out there that can gaurentee that no one will float in it.
People's bodies have different bouyence's, and just because you didn't float does not mean that everyone out there won't.
I enjoy reading wet test results, and think it's interesting what appeals to others. BTW what does POS stand for?
Spahappy :D
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POS = Piece of Sh*t
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POS = Piece of Sh*t
Now Chris why did you need to put that in your wet test results post.
I hope everyone out there realizes that you have a problem with that brand of spa and that you most likely will not keep an open mind when you wet test it.
Spahappy :D
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I don’t think I would have a problem with it if I thought Jacuzzi Premium was as good as Hotspring, Sundance, Marquis, and Caldera. I don’t think it is as good as those brands, but realize it is an opinion. I am going to keep as open a mind as possible.
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I don’t think I would have a problem with it if I thought Jacuzzi Premium was as good as Hotspring, Sundance, Marquis, and Caldera. I don’t think it is as good as those brands, but realize it is an opinion. I am going to keep as open a mind as possible.
What brands do you sell?
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I actually just became a Haven Representative. Right in my own home. I actually can help anyone that may be interested in earning a part-time income selling the most efficient spas EVER thru a pyramid scheme.
New for 2005 will be the brand new DAIT insulation system called Master DAIT. No one can even come close to the efficiency in the Master DAIT system. We now have an entire ceiling fan mounted to the shell to remove the hot air in the summer.
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I actually just became a Haven Representative. Right in my own home. I actually can help anyone that may be interested in earning a part-time income selling the most efficient spas EVER thru a pyramid scheme.
New for 2005 will be the brand new DAIT insulation system called Master DAIT. No one can even come close to the efficiency in the Master DAIT system. We now have an entire ceiling fan mounted to the shell to remove the hot air in the summer.
I'm sure you'll do quite well with that brand.
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I don’t think I would have a problem with it if I thought Jacuzzi Premium was as good as Hotspring, Sundance, Marquis, and Caldera. I don’t think it is as good as those brands, but realize it is an opinion. I am going to keep as open a mind as possible.
Chris do you sell Sundance spas?
Spahappy :D
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Chris do you sell Sundance spas?
I get that question a lot, but I am currently a full-time accountant.
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I get that question a lot, but I am currently a full-time accountant.
Wow I'm surprised you can find the time to be on this board during tax time.
Well since you're not in this industry I will disregard your statement about Jacuzzi's being POS'S ;D
Spahappy :D
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I am not a tax accountant, but I do get paid more now.
I used to be in the industry and still have many friends in the industry. I am more a dealer/salesman/poolguy than a consumer if that makes any sense to you.
I am on here, so when I decide to get back to dealing with consumers, I am aware of what is going on.
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Well since you seem quite educated on Sundance spas, I'd like your opinion on the ISO 9001 certification Sundance has?
My local Sundance dealer hits on this heavy in her sales presentaion.
From what I understand it's some kind of quality control program with strict and ongoing audits. I understand it gaurentees that a Sundance spa that comes off the line will have the same quality as the one before it and the one after it, ect. ect. ect.
I'd like to know how important this really is. If any other Sundance dealers would like to reply that would be great.
Spahappy :D
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Personally, I think the ISO9001 is an extremely valuable in the manufacturing of many products. It is an important quality control mechanism. It makes sure every product has a history from beginning to end. It is one of those things if you don’t have it, there is no way to explain your manufacturers quality assurance program because unfortunately it probably is not as stringent as ISO’s.
There is a gentleman on here that was an ISO auditor. I think he owns a Grandee. Not sure if ISO was part of his decision process.
Most consumers don’t know what it is, but there are many individuals that have experience with ISO9001 and wouldn’t buy a product without that symbol. I can guarantee you that every Hotspring or Sundance salesperson (with at least 3 years experience) has sold at least one spa solely because they had the ISO9001 certification.
I wouldn’t think it would be a major point in a selling presentation. Maybe 5 minutes at the most.
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Interesting that you feel ISO is that important.
Did you know that when Jacuzzi bought Sundance they became ISO9001 certified as well.
I'm not sure how you can put so much stock in a quality control process like ISO9001 for Sundance and claim that the Jacuzzi Premium spas are in your words pieces of sh*t.
After all, both spas are made at the same facility in Chino Ca. so wouldn't you assume that the ISO9001 standards are equally as stringent for both brands.
How can the Sundance spa be built better because of ISO9001 standards and the Jacuzzi Premium spas be pieces of sh*t? That is of course if you truley belive that manufacturers with the ISO9001 certification make a better spa. ???
Spahappy :D
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Interesting that you feel ISO is that important.
Did you know that when Jacuzzi bought Sundance they became ISO9001 certified as well.
I'm not sure how you can put so much stock in a quality control process like ISO9001 for Sundance and claim that the Jacuzzi Premium spas are in your words pieces of sh*t.
After all, both spas are made at the same facility in Chino Ca. so wouldn't you assume that the ISO9001 standards are equally as stringent for both brands.
How can the Sundance spa be built better because of ISO9001 standards and the Jacuzzi Premium spas be pieces of sh*t? That is of course if you truley belive that manufacturers with the ISO9001 certification make a better spa. ???
Spahappy :D
I have to chime in here....I think a benefit of the ISO 9001 program is that yes it standards for consistent manufacting....the one thing how ever is not that the products are manufactured to a higher standard but that each one is built the same....so if you build it well......great...but if not...than....at least you will be consistent......I am sure it does help companys to build a better product....simply by being consisitent....but in and of its self...it does not assure you a quailty product.....( this does not by the way anything to do with Jacuzzi....just the program itself....)....I actually think it is something that is a real marketing program and or tool for company's to use for promotional reasons more than anything else...
just to add..It is very much same type of thought with Mac Donalds....if you think they have the best burgers out there great...becasue each Mac Donald is supposed to be the very same as the others.... but if not....at least you know what to expect....
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Interesting perspective Mendo. Quite possibly the definition that makes the most sense to me at this point in my reasoning.
Spahappy :D
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Way to go Mendo! Hey buddy, cleared you cell # on my new phone and couldn't call you back. Call me tomorrow, I left a message at the store for you!
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I love how people put the Sundance and Jacuzzi line down......watkins owns both brands and let me know if i am wrong.I would stay away from the sweetwaters.lots of the dealers of the sundance try and sell the sweetwaters when lots of the people don't want to spend the extra money they end up with a sweetwater.You can spend the same and get a Jacuzzi in stead of the sweetwater since sweetwater is in the low end of the watkins line.Sorry about my spelling its the wine...............Jt
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I love how people put the Sundance and Jacuzzi line down......watkins owns both brands and let me know if i am wrong.I would stay away from the sweetwaters.lots of the dealers of the sundance try and sell the sweetwaters when lots of the people don't want to spend the extra money they end up with a sweetwater.You can spend the same and get a Jacuzzi in stead of the sweetwater since sweetwater is in the low end of the watkins line.Sorry about my spelling its the wine...............Jt
I love wine! I make wine, drink wine, and it's currently my alcoholic beverage of choice. In fact My coworker and I are keeping a diary on the wet tests ( both customer orintated and our own results), along with a new wine review of wines that we both recently tried.
She's a single mom and has to work part time at a liqure store to make ends meet...So we get it for her cost....Very cool!!!
And no dazedandconfused I will not tell you what that is!
Spahappy :D
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Hey Johnny,
I know you what you were trying to say....But actually...Jacuzzi and Sundance are owned by the same...but Watkins...( Hot Springs....Caldera....Tiger River) are actually are part of the Masco corp.....and are direct competitors of each other....all of them how ever make a fine product
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The difference between the Sundance and Jacuzzi Premium are significant. They both have a different heater, different controls, different warranty, and most importantly different dealers. I consider them a LTP because of the fact they try to promote them as part of the premium lines of spas and unfortunately for me they just don’t have it. Also, about the ISO9001, the old Sweetwater water line was ISO9001 certified and I personally would consider that line of spas more comparable to the Jacuzzi Premium line of spas.
Also, I never said ISO9001 made you make a better product. It provides the manufacturer with stringent manufacturing standards. To the detractors of manufacturing a consistent product, being consistent is extremely important. Would you want an inconsistent flavor for the Godiva chocolates you gave your wife for Valentine’s Day or an inconsistent dosage of the Viagra you took last night? This was not meant to offend anyone, just trying to make a point.
Sometimes a ‘batch’ can have a quality control issue, the ISO9001 process allows the manufacturer to investigate any issues that may occur. In the spa manufacturing process, a bad batch of glue can really affect the quality of your product.
When Sundance had their issues with their glue, they were able to find out what specific spas were messed up because of the ISO9001 certification. ISO9001 required a record of the spas that used that specific glue. I doubt that would have occurred in the Phoenix or ThermoSpa factory.
ISO9001 is important when problems occur.
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The difference between the Sundance and Jacuzzi Premium are significant. They both have a different heater, different controls, different warranty, and most importantly different dealers. I consider them a POS because of the fact they try to promote them as part of the premium lines of spas and unfortunately for me they just don’t have it.
What you're describing is your explanation for why JP is not a PREMIUM spa. Calling them a POS is only going to tick off those who sell them or own one. Do you REALLY think they are a POS or are you simply trying to say you don't see them on par with Sundance and other premium spas?
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What you're describing is your explanation for why JP is not a PREMIUM spa. Calling them a POS is only going to tick off those who sell them or own one. Do you REALLY think they are a POS or are you simply trying to say you don't see them on par with Sundance and other premium spas?
You are partially correct. The JP dealers, in my area, are shall we say not very reputable. I truly believe the dealer makes your brand. That is the major reason why I consider them LTP. Obviously, there are very good JP dealers out there, just not around me.
I also believe JP's are not are par with other premium spas brands.
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You are partially correct. The JP dealers, in my area, are shall we say not very reputable. I truly believe the dealer makes your brand. That is the major reason why I consider them POS. Obviously, there are very good JP dealers out there, just not around me.
I also believe JP's are not are par with other premium spas brands.
If the JP dealer is reputable is the brand a POS or is it simply a still less than premium spa with a good dealer to support you? Maybe you could refer to JP as LTP (less than premium) rather than a POS and tick people off.
The dealer you buy from can make a HUGE difference in your spa experience but I'm not sure he defines whether the spa itself is a POS or not. If that were the case a run of the mill spa sold by a reputable dealer would become a "premium" spa based on the quality of that dealer.
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I have changed all my POS’s to LTP’s.
I do think that the dealer makes your spas a premium product. If all of Sundance’s dealers were like Max78’s (sorry to get you involved), Sundance would have the reputation of Cal Spas. He probably would trade in his Sundance for a Cal if he were getting the best service available.
I do think that if you are selling a mid-range spa (like say PDC) and giving your customers the best service in your area you can command a premium/top of the line price for your product. Those prices come strictly from the dealer’s reputation not the manufacturers.
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I have to chime in on ISO9001.
Coming from a heavy manufacturing industry, I am familiar with ISO. It is a tool to use as part of your overall quality system. In fact, ISO is more of a documentation system than a quality system. It provides 3rd party verification that you have properly documented your manufacturing processes. It does not improve these processes, but as someone else indicated it should provide for manufacturing consistency. But you can still have consistently bad manufacturing processes and be ISO certified.
Marketeers tend to try to use ISO as a sales tool because it is a 3rd party verification which gives the impression that you have control of your processes. I personally do not put much stock in ISO certification in any industry. It should be a part of any mfg company's quality system, but in and of itself it does not tell me much about the product.
Taz