Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: newtotubbing on January 05, 2005, 05:25:52 pm
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I did a seach on Eco One. You have no idea how many words contain eco & one!!!!
I was wondering if Eco One was a good product to use in my HS Vista. I am using Dichlor and MPS but am having problems with dry ichy skin after using the spa. Moisturizer is helping but not really great. Spa usage is going down because I cannot take the itching. I read a bit about Eco One and am curious is this is something to look into.
Insight would be great!
Thanks.
Jonathan
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Eco One works well for us. We use very little dichlor and there's no need for skin moisturizers.
We used a full bottle the first month and 1/2 bottle per month since then. We do a water change twice per year.
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Thanks for the info, sounds like adecent product.
Anyone else?
Jonathan
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I'm also interested in hearing more user comments on Eco One or any other products that compare to it. If their claims are true, I really like the idea of Eco One being made from 100% natural products.
I've only had my tub for about two weeks and I'm using Bromine. When we noticed dryness and some minor itching, I started cutting back on my bromine so the level stays at the lower end of the test strip's "ideal" area. Even after cutting back, I've developed little bumps all over my back (nowhere else). My niece told me that she stopped using Bromine soon after she bought her hot tub because of rashes etc. She switched to Baquaspa and likes it but my dealer said that Baquaspa was banned for sale in several states and that it was found to deteriorate plastic. Their website specifically states that it can't be introduced into a Bromine system too so for these reasons, I'm not considering it.
Can Eco One or Nature 2 (or others) be introduced into a Bromine system without a chemical reaction ? My dealer suggested cutting the Bromine levels way back before a transition to another product. I'm hoping to avoid draining the tub so soon after my purchase, but if need be, I will for health reasons.
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I use it with very little chlorine and Ozone. It works great and is very easy to use.
The instruction manual that comes with the kit states that they guarantee you will like it. So you can get your money back if you find that it is not the treatment for you.
I am 99% sure that you will be able to enjoy your spa again, if you decide to try Eco One. Your skin will not become dry and itchy anymore and it will feel great after getting out. You wont even need to shower.
If you decide to try it, let us know if it works for you.
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. I'm hoping to avoid draining the tub so soon after my purchase, but if need be, I will for health reasons.
Chas' law suggest changing the water after your first month anyway. You didn't mention it, but I was curious about cost and checked in my town I pay $13 for 1000 cubic feet of water, which is over 7000 gallons and my tub holds 425 gallons.
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You didn't mention it, but I was curious about cost and checked in my town I pay $13 for 1000 cubic feet of water, which is over 7000 gallons and my tub holds 425 gallons.
Really, draining the water isn't a big deal, I just hated to flood my yard on top of all of this rain we've been getting in Pa. I have an artesian well and a heavy-duty pump so it doesn't cost me anything but time. We were surprised to find out that it only takes me about a half-hour to fill the tub. The installer was impressed....
I just didn't want to hear my wife complain about waiting for the water to warm up again :) Because of this,I'll have to drain it before work in the morning and let it heat back up for her evening "splash"
Will my existing water additive inventory (for Bromine treatment) be compatable with Eco One? Examples: PH Up, PH Down, Spa Pure, Spa Shock, Clarifier, etc...
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Well is'nt this interesting. About a month ago I developed a rash on my back, behind the knees and on my arms. My physician told me that it was something else (cannot even pronounce it) but that it was unlikely related to the hot tub. I stayed out of it for about 4 weeks (man that was a long time watching my wife in there) skin celared up and now I seem to have the symptoms showing up again.
What is the basis of Eco One (active ingredients)?
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Eco One is an enzyme based bacteriacide (sp). It is safest to use along with a small dose of sanitizer, but many who use it do not. Another product that is very similar and a little more mainstream is The Natural. It can be purchased from dealers and on line. RHTUBS.com has some very good information on this product.
For Bigbender..
If you are interested in staying with bromine, but would like to use lower levels, try the Spa Frog or LeisureTime's mineral purifier. They can be used with bromine unlike Nature2 and you only have to maintain about 1ppm bromine level.
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bender
All you will need with Eco One is a small amount of a sanitizer and possibly a product for heavy metals if your tap water has too much.
Your Bromine will work fine, but i suggest that you use chlorine (dichlor) instead. If you add chlorine after you get out of the spa it will be used up and gone by the next day so you will be tubbing non-toxically.
All other products are not needed, except for the PH products. You'll find that your PH rarely needs adjusting between fills so you will use very little of these too.
Nature2 is not bromine compatible, but there is a product called the Frog that is made for use with bromine.
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doodoo
Here is the info listed on the manufacturers site. The coconut extract is the ingredient that benefits your skin.
Powerful yet gentle cleansers: Eco One contains powerful cleansers that break down suntan oil, body lotions and other unwanted contaminates, dissolving them harmlessly, eliminating the cause of unsightly scum and foam.
Flocking agents: Eco One contains pure organic compounds that are naturally attracted to contaminates and minerals in the water. Solid contaminates clump together into larger particles that get swept up and caught in the filter where they belong. The natural flocking action keeps your water crystal-clear for a full month or more.
Natural Water Softeners: The natural water softening minerals in Eco One reduce the surface tension of the water and helps prevent scale from forming. The water feels soft and equipment is protected.
Enzymes: The secret to Eco One is our proprietary blend of natural enzymes. Enzymes accelerate natural bioprocesses and keep your spa water sparkling clean without the “chemical soup”, odor, irritation, dry skin, testing or water balancing.
Why Enzymes?
Enzymes increase the interaction between elements. They are added to detergents to help break down blood, fat, perspiration, and grass stains.
Lipase and Cellulase enzymes soften the fatty exterior walls of microscopic cells, causing them to rupture more easily. Amylase and Protease enzymes help break down starches and proteins. Oxidase and Hydrolase enzymes increase oxidation and promote the rapid degradation of many substances. Enzymes originally were extracted from both plants and animals, but can now be grown naturally in common soil.
Our enzymes are of food grade type carried by a coconut extract base, contributing to the overall effectiveness of the solution. As the solution breaks down during use, the coconut is released and gradually coats the filter cartridge, which improves filtration and makes cleaning the filter much easier. Coconut oil has the added benefit of being an excellent skin softener! The result is much healthier water, fresh, clean and clear without fear of exposure to harsh chemicals or their negative side effects.
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More info for those that like to read and learn. This is from the manufacturers site and below is the comments from poolandspa.com.
Eco One can act as a replacement for, or greatly reduce your need for the vast majority of your spa-care chemical regimen, non-toxically.
Eco One reduces the overall amount of sanitizer needed by minimizing the "workload" of the sanitizer. Normally, spa owners have to add many chemicals to balance their spa, not with Eco One. It handles the bulk of the chores and leaves the sanitizer to do it's job, which is to kill bacteria fast and effectively. There is NO reason why someone should add heavy amounts of sanitizer to breakdown foam, suntan oils, personal care products, detergents, scum, etc. This can all be taken care of without harmful chemicals. All you are doing is increasing your potential to health risk from exposure to chlorine byproduct off-gassing.
It's important to understand that chlorine by products can be even worse when used in hot water, such as a hot tubs/spas. With Eco One you will reduce your sanitizer use by up to 90%. You wont even be able to tell that there is a sanitizer in the water. NO chemical smell, itching, rashes, dry skin, red eyes, faded clothing, damaged hair, etc. NONE!
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Eco One - It’s a miracle!
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New Spa Treatment solves most water chemistry problems !
Spa water chemistry problems continue to plague many hot tub spa owners. In fact, many people indicate that they do not use their spa as much as they want due to poor water quality. That is a real shame...to let that big beautiful spa go to waste !
Luckily, there is now an answer to most spa water chemistry problems. That answer seems to be this Eco One stuff ! This enzyme based water conditioner is produced by a company called Pacific Sands in California and it is quickly turning out to be one of our best selling spa products ! Pacific Sands is, at its core, an environmental company. The goal of the company is to develop and market water treatment solutions that do not incorporate toxic substances. In fact, all the ingredients in Eco One are 100% safe and natural.
Pacific Sands actually develops aqua-environmental solutions for industrial, agricultural and consumer products. These products are nontoxic, enzyme-based water treatments that have applications ranging from cleaning products and pet care to water towers, factory holding ponds and even wastewater treatment ! This advanced technology is now available to consumers for use in home hot tub spas !
We at Poolandspa.com have tested this product extensively and it appears as if Eco One Spa Treatment may turn out to be one of the finest, easiest to use and safest spa water conditioners on the market today. Your Spa water will be softer, clearer, with no odors, no foam, and no irritation to the eyes or skin. Eco One is a unique formulation of Natural enzymes, minerals, and plant extracts that contains no chlorine, bromine or other harsh chemicals.
Eco One can act as a replacement for, or greatly reduce your need for the vast majority of your spa-care chemical regime. One bottle of Eco One Spa Treatment in conjunction with non-chlorine shock will effectively keep your spa water crystal clear and odor free for 2-3 mo. The biggest advantages of this product over chlorine or bromine is that you will have no more chemical odor, your water will remain “new” looking and feeling for up to 2-3 months, you will have no more itching, no more rashes, no more scum lines or “ring around the spa”. It will reduce or eliminate spa foam and also helps maintain a balanced pH and alkalinity. And your water will truly sparkle. It’s a miracle ! We suggest that you give it a try. You have nothing to lose and a sparkling clear hot tub spa to gain !
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Some good responses.
TCMarvin, Tony, anyone,
Can you use it with Nature2 and ozinator? I guess they refer to MPS as the shock?
I am liking what I am seeing and might have to give this a try.
Jonathan
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Another product that is very similar and a little more mainstream is The Natural.
I called my dealer today and asked what options were available to me from his store. He sells "The Natural" (the product Tony mentioned) and said that a lot of his customers use it. When I asked about Eco One, he told me that both products are enzyme based so the results would be very similar. The price he offered is slightly less than Eco One so I placed an order with him for a three month supply.
When our tub order was placed, the dealer asked me what I would prefer as a sanitizer to go along with the ozinator and my reply was "I guess whatever is cheap and fairly easy to use". Well, right now, I feel a little frustrated that I chose Bromine because of economics.
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bender
How much did you buy The Natural for? It sells online for $30 per bottle which lasts three months or $10 per month
I bottle of Eco One costs $18. and lasts 2 months easily. This comes out to be $9 per month. So they are roughly the same, unless you purchased for less than $30.
The Natural Purge is also $30. Eco One's purge is $18. This only needs to be used when you switch over though.
I think you will be happy with these forms of treatment.
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I feel a little frustrated that I chose Bromine because of economics.
Here in SoCal Bromine costs more than Dichlor, by far.
I tried Eco One in my HotSpring Grandee, and it did in fact help me to have less dry skin.
I would NEVER run any of these products without some sort of sanitizer. Some of them claim to be bactericidal, but that is debatable - also, even if they are, it may not be enough to maintain healthy water.
Keep in mind that hot water dries skin all by itself, so you are looking for a moisturizer to add to your water. The Eco One system did that for me - and smelled nice to boot.
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Here in SoCal Bromine costs more than Dichlor, by far.
Chas,
We were told that Chlorine was less but we thought Bromine would be a better treatment because it was supposed to be the "improved" option for hot tubs. He also offered Nature 2 and The Natural as our more expensive choices. I knew absolutely nothing about side effects until my niece mentioned her problems a few days later.
TCM,
Our dealer is an hour away so I'm having one bottle delivered by UPS to try it out. His yearly 15% off sale on spa products runs from Dec. to Jan. so my cost was around $40 with shipping. He recommended using a small amount of Dichlor with it and I already have a one pound bottle of granulated Chlorine (Spa Pure) that came with the tub.
When I looked at Eco One's price on Poolsandspa.com, it said a ONE month supply was $17.95 and shipping would probably be another 5 bucks.
If anyone finds a better price on either product, please let me know.
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I just ordered the Eco One starter kit from poolandspas.com. Got the starter kit and extra one month bottle. I have to travel on business all next week and I won't be able to start the purge process until I return. The weather forcast is showing it getting cold and I am afraid to do the water change in 2o
degree weather! Timing is everything.
Any other Eco One advice would be great.
Jonathan
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Well, now that Jonathon and I have placed our orders, I ran across a website describing health issues when using enzyme based products (see below). What's up with this comment ? - "we believe they pose a substantial health risk" They claim to offer enzyme products so does anyone know which product name is causing the health problems ? Hopefully it's not Eco One or Natural...
Natural Seaweed
There are a couple of products on the market touting a "natural" protein-based alternative for spa sanitation. One such product claims to contain enzymes derived from seaweed, and lists lanolin (sheep fat) and vitamins as ingredients. Please beware-- enzymes, vitamins, and sheep fat are not bactericides. One of the brands involved was issued a cease and desist order from the EPA for making illegal false claims. We cannot recommend these products as standalone sanitizers, nor will we offer them for sale as such because we believe they pose a substantial health risk. The EPA sets rigorous standards for anti-microbial products to protect the public. Always check the label of spa sanitizers for the EPA registration. NOTE: We do offer several excellent enzyme products for spa water care, but none are sanitizers, nor claim to be.
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One of the many abundant elements on our planet is salt.
Take plain old salt, split it with a simple electrolysis process, and viola! you have Chlorine!
What could be more natural than that?
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Bigbender,
I think what you described is the Natural. Eco One uses coconut something or other.
I am still going to use dichlor and MPS like I am now. I just want to water to be softer and less itchy!
Jonathan
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Jonathan
You might want to start the purge BEFORE you leave, so your spas pipes and shell will be clean and ready for the switch when you return.
Make sure you use a little dichlor with Eco One and if you have heavy metals in your tap water, use a product to remove them before adding the Eco One to the water.
Turn up your filtration during the purge process and during the first week of use also. Sometimes there is a bit of cloudiness when a bottle is added to a fresh fill. I think this has to do with ingredients blending into the water. Increasing your filtration clears this right up.
bender
I think you missed the point some of us and even poolandspa.com are trying to make. The manufacturer claims that one bottle lasts one month, but 1 bottle of Eco One will actually last twice as long. Poolandspa even says in their article that 1 bottle will last 2-3 months. This makes Eco One a much more affordable system. I think they just make the 1 month claim for thier money back guarantee, because they state in the instruction manual that they guarantee 1 bottle of Eco One will maintain your spa for 1 month, but in most cases will last much longer. They even state in the manual that if the spa is not being used and it is covered, it will maintain your spa for 3-5 months with no addition of a sanitizer, but it does recommend a new bottle and a shock before using the spa again.
Another thing is that the Eco One starter kit comes with a cover cleaner and 6 month worth of the filter booster. The cover cleaner is not the best, but it's ok and the filter booster works great.
The health risk you heard about is in regard to NOT using these treatments with a sanitizer. These treatments are not EPA approved pesticides, so they cannot make the claim to be a stand alone product, although some of them do. I have seen nothing in the Eco One liturature that states it is a sanitizer.
There is nothing in these products that can hurt any living thing. They are completely safe and non toxic.
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TC,
I haven't received the Eco One yet, I ordered it last night. If I get it before I go away, is it ok to purge the spa for 6-7 days before I can drain it? My spa is only a few months old.
I am also afraid that when I get back, the weather in NY is going to get very cold and the water change might be a problem in 20 degree weather.
Jonathan
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newtotubbing
The way i see it, the longer you purge, the cleaner your pipes and shell will be. So going longer will only be better, not worse. After that, your pipes will always remain clean. Eco One will not allow scum, calcium or any other junk to build up anywhere in your spa.
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I'm kinda kicking my butt for not ordering the Eco One starter kit but only because of the bottle it provides for purging. I may have paid slightly more for a three month supply of The Natural but that was caused by adding both tax and shipping. The good thing is that my bottle is already here.
Before I toss it in though, I want to get a second opinion on whether I should purge the tub or not. My dealer said not to worry about it so I didn't order any - he said to just let the Bromine count go down, add the treatment and shock it with Spa Pure. I tend to agree with him because we've only had the tub for 16 days. The dealer had chlorinated water in the tub for two weeks before we bought it and he's probably already drained most (or all) of the manufacturing dirt out of the lines. Since we had it installed, our water and filters have been kept very clean.
My Bromine level is already down below the scale so I think I'm ready. Does anyone agree ???
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I'm a little perplexed about Eco One.
Other than adding a moisturizer (coconut oil) to the water, it seems to claim the same as a Nature 2 (N2) cartridge.
If you follow the Northman/ Vermonter spa instructions on Docs site, it seems that there would be very little dichlor that your sitting in while tubbing.
Basically, their method is to add enough dichlor to the tub after you get out to have a 2-3 PPM reading 20 minutes after you put in the dichlor and by the time you use the tub again it's close to 0 (assuming some time passes between uses). The ozone and N2 is supposed to keep the bacteria in check once the chlorine goes to 0.
As far as economics - If you buy a N2 cartridge for $25 and it lasts 4 months and your dosing with dichlor give that about $15 (don't know the usage yet) that gives you $40 for 4 months. It seems that the Eco One will cost you $45 to start and $17.95 for the next 3 months for a total about $99 plus the cost of dichlor and the filtering aid if I'm reading the web site correctly.
I can understand the cost if you have skin problems but it seems to me that it's almost cost prohibitive to use if you don't have skin problems.
Can someone add to this on something that I'm missing?
Thanks!
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Hi Vinny,
I am only buying it to help with my dry skin. I agree with you about the cost and I will not rely on this at all to sanitize my spa. I see other benefits but I am only looking for the better skin care. I am following Northmans plan and it is working so far. The money isn't a big deal to me.
Jonathan
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Jonathan,
Thanks for the reply.
Since I don't own a tub yet, I don't know how the hot water will affect my skin. My assumption is that I swim in my pool with chlorine at higher levels than I was planning to have in the tub and it shouldn't bother me, again it's an assumption.
I'd be interested to know what the final outcome is as far as results and pricing for a 4 month period. Please keep me informed as I may be in the same boat as you once I get my tub.
Thanks again!
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Vinny,
I'm not so sure it's the chlorine that is the problem, I think the cold weather and the hot water is what is drying my skin out. I did not have this problem before the weather turned cold here in NY. Besides, the chlorine level in my spa is basically zero when I get in it. I add dichlor when I get out. I think my dry house is also affecting me. I just bought a humidifier for the top floor of my house so I am hoping that this will help as well.
When do you think you will buying a spa?
Jonathan
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I have a deposit on one now. I am planning for late March /early April delivery, I figure a 6 week wait for the tub so I should order it end of Feb.
I'm planning on submitting my building plans to my township by the end on this month and hopefully have it approved by the end of Feb. I have to build a deck, I'm enclosing the whole thing in a screen room and I'm upgrading the electrical to 200 amp. With Easter coming very early this year it threw off my plans for a March completion.
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Sounds good, show us the progress with pics, that would be great.
Jonathan
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vinny
There are 4 products that come in the starter kit.
1) The purge treatment that cleans your pipes - This only needs to be used when you first start Eco One.
2) The monthly treatment - I add this every other month, which reduces the cost in half. Some people state that you can go up to 3 months on 1 bottle, but i like the feel of the water after adding a new bottle, so i go every 2 months. Also, our spa is used very heavily. I've got 6 brothers/sisters/inlaws and 6 neices/nephews that frequent my spa often. Not including MY family and 1 bottle lasts 2 months easily. I just give it an extra dose of dichlor if it's used heavily. I have an ozonator also, by the way.
3) 6 months worth of the Filter Booster stuff - Which is added monthly into the filter compartment
4) Cover cleaner - It's ok, but not really worth repurchasing. If you have mold and mildew growing on your cover it works great at cleaning it up, but there are better products for protecting the cover from drying and sun exposure.
If you do like i and others do and add a bottle of the monthly every 2 months. The cost is less than $10 per month. If you do not use your spa that often and add every 3 months, the cost is roughly $6 per month. Depends on your scenario i guess. It's well worth the money though
Eco One and Nature2 are very different. Nature2 is a SECONDARY sanitizer which helps reduce your sanitizer use. Eco One also helps reduce your sanitizer AND locks your PH and alkalinity for the life of your water, it makes your water and skin feel great, the water smells sweet and clean, you wont need filter cleaners anymore they will spray clean with a garden hose, protects your spas equipment, plumbing and shell from scale and scum, extends the life of your water, eliminates foam and cloudiness, you can leave it alone for MONTHS and your water will not crash and the list goes on.
Almost everyone that has been in my spa since switching to Eco One has commented on how great the water feels and smells. I used Baqua before Eco One and it's a night and day comparison. It gave me breathing problems after using the spa, i had horrid scum problems and it costed me more per month than Eco One. Now my spa is a no brainer.
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TCMarvin,
Thanks for the response! How long have you been using Eco One?
How much chlorine do you use (PPM)? And how often?
The info I quoted was from their website. I think $10 a month or better yet $6 a month isn't much at all. I understood that the $45 startup was for everything and it included a cover cleaner.
My tub won't be used anywhere like your tub - there's just 4 of us here. So this may Be a viable alternative!
Thanks again!
Vinny
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Thanks for the details TC!
Can't wait to get ECO goin' on in my spa!
Jonathan
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vinny
How long? A few years now
I add about 1 teaspoon or less after use. Sometimes i skip it. My spa also has an ozonator.
If my family or friends come over and completely thrash the spa, i'll add a little more dichlor and turn my filters up...... Your filtration is important with Eco One, the instructions explain how the enzymes depend on aeration by filtration. The more air you have coming into the water, the better it performs. The coconut in the product coats the filter and the filter booster sticks to it. This combination keeps a large amount of enzymes on the filter where air is being drawn into the water. Enzymes depend on air to turn organic matter and bacteria into carbon dioxide and water, so this concept works very well. This is mother natures recipe for clean, bacteria free water. It's the oldest form of water treatment, just enhanced.
This coating on the filter allows you to spray them clean with a garden hose and also prolongs their life.
I have also learned over time that it's not worth fighting with the PH. It will vary on occasion, but the Eco One always brings it back into range on it's own. I don't even need to adjust it after a fresh fill. I just pour it in, run my filters and after a day it's adjusted. I doubt this will work the same for everyones tap water though.
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Those of you thinking about Eco-One, don't forget to sanitize with chlorine. Eco-One is not a approved sanitizer and will not keep your water clean. It will however moisturize your skin and help reduce the amount of sanitizer required.
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There are three things that have kept me from trying enzyme systems...
1. Higher pH
2. Longer filter times
3. Rinsing filters weekly.
They have caught my interest, but for now, I will stick to my tried and true routine.
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I've been using Eco One for 2.5 years and rinse my filters once every 6 weeks. Still on the original filters and they stiill look new.
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I dont rise my filters weekly. I rinse them every few weeks.
A higher PH does no harm to anyone as long as you reduce the surface tension of the water and prohibit scale from forming. You do not even need to use a higher PH with Eco One it just balances easier on the high side of the scale and your maintenance is much easier.
Do you know that there has been discussion in the industry about raising the limits for PH, but the chemical manufacturers are against it, because people use more chemicals with a lower PH? The Langlier index, which most people use, was designed for city water pipes, not swimming pools and spas. The index that was designed for pools and spa is called the Hamilton Index, but it never caught on because the chemical companies scared people into not adopting it. The only fear you have with using a PH between 7.6-8.2 is scale and Eco One does not allow scale to form in your spa.
There are more people out there using a higher PH than you could imagine. You just don't see them posting on these message boards because their maintenance routine is so SIMPLE and they have no problems.
Need proof? Read about it here.....
http://www.poolsolutions.com/gd/hiphpool.html
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The Langelier Saturation index was designed for underground water pipes used by municipal water districts. The Pool & Spa industry began using it in the early 60's, as our industry had no other water balancing system to guide us. Since then we have been modifying the Langelier because we have put on limits & conditions that were never part of Dr. Langelier's original index. We are not using the Langelier Index, even though the pool & spa industry still calls it the Langelier Index.
Have you ever wondered why there are so many opinions on how to run your pool chemistry? The answer is simple... if you base your science on an erroneous principle, then your conclusions will be inconsistent. That means the answers that the pool and/or spa professional comes up with will be inconsistent, adding to the confusion.
The Hamilton Index™, was developed by a pool technician for the pool & spa industry. This index was tested, by field service and research, over a period of 11 years. The index is so accurate, that in 20 years of field application, it has not needed to be modified. Today, there is an estimated 400,000 pool & spas being run on the Hamilton Index™. Interestingly, in 1991, the National Pool and Spa Institute lowered the recommended total alkalinity towards the guide lines that the Hamilton Index™ has used for 25 years. But, of course, they are still calling it the Langelier Index.
Besides being very accurate, our 3 step system in extremely easy...
Step 1 Test your total hardness (Not Calcium Hardness), that tells you where to put your total alkalinity...exactly!
Step 2 Put your total alkalinity where the chart tells you.
Step 3 Keep your pH at 7.8 to 8.2
http://www.swimpool.com/hamiltonindex/
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More proof....
What is the Hamilton Index ? - The Spa Guy Answers Questions
If you have a Hot Tub Spa question that you would like answered in an upcoming column, write to the Spa Guy
c/o Long Island Hot Tubs, 12 Old Dock Road; Yaphank, NY 11980.
Dear Spa Guy,
One of my friends was talking to me the other night about his hot tub spa. He mentioned to me that he uses something called the "Hamilton Index" to maintain his water. He says the water is always clear, never smells, and it sounds like he uses a lot less chemicals than me. I did not want to sound ignorant, so I told him that I used it too! What the heck is this ? A brand of chemicals, a different test kit ? Please help !
R.S., Hobbs, New Mexico
Dear R.S.,
You know, when I agreed to write this column, I figured that most of the questions would be real easy, like "what is a pump ?". However I am beginning to see that I have to put a lot more thought into this than I planned !
I guess our readers are pretty knowledgeable about their spas, and you are certainly not "ignorant" to be unaware of the Hamilton Index. As a matter of fact, I bet many of our readers already use the Hamilton Index and don't even know it !
About 6 years ago, a California research group was looking for a way to improve the chemical sanitization of hot tub spa water. What they developed was named the Hamilton Index. It involves rethinking the ways people have always been taught to care for hot tub (or swimming pool) water chemistry.
Most of the information about spa water chemistry is given to spa dealers by the manufacturers of spa chemicals. This information is then taught to the spa owners. Obviously, the chemical manufacturers would like you to use the most chemicals possible ! With the Hamilton Index, you can actually use less chemicals and have better sanitized spa water.
The basic concept is this - for many years, the accepted chemical level reading for bromine was 2.0, pH was 7.4 and Alkalinity was 80. The Hamilton Index rethinks this accepted water chemistry. By analyzing the chemical reactions down to their molecular level, it actually turns out that these "old" accepted chemical levels are neither the most economical nor the best and easiest way to sanitize water.
Over the years, we at Long Island Hot Tubs have seen that our customers have had a lot of trouble maintaining their pH and Alkalinty at the proper levels. If they boost the Alkalinity level, the pH goes up too much. When they add pH Minus to bring down the pH, the Alkalinity drops way down. They are caught in a perpetual "Catch-22" and usually end up getting very frustrated and just dump out and change the water. Proper use of the Hamilton Index specifically fights this problem of pH and Alkalinity bounce as well as cuts sanitizer use by up to 50 %.
According to the Hamilton Index, the Total Alkalinity level should be at least 100-120 instead of floating between 60 and 80. Remember, Alkalinity is different than pH and must be tested with either a test strip or a 5 part dropper bottle test kit. The benefits of running a higher Alkalinty are: less sanitizer is needed, the pH is much more stable, there is a reduced tendency for cloudy water and stale smell, makes maintaining other chemical levels easier and reduces the possibility of corrosion to metal spa parts.
The pH level should be kept between 7.6 and 8.2 instead of 7.4 to 7.6. The darker red color on most test kits is better than the middle pink/red color. The benefits of running a higher pH are: less sanitizer is needed, sanitizer is more stable, less skin irritation, less chemical smell, reduces corrosion of metal spa parts, reduces chance of algae, improves water clarity, and higher pH is automatically "locked in" when Alkalinity is at 100-120.
Your sanitizer level (bromine) should be 1.0 instead of 2.0. The lighter yellow color on most test kits is better than the middle yellow color. The benefits of this are: less sanitizer odor, less skin irritation, less inert chemical materials building up in the water, less water foaming, less sanitizer cost.
To start using the Hamilton Index, simply follow the our "E-Z Chemical Instructions" elsewhere on this Site. You will quickly find that maintaining your spa water chemistry becomes much easier, and something that you can do only once a week, rather than every few days. Feel free to call us if you have questions !
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Water Chemistry 'Maverick' Dies
By Bob Dumas
Technical Editor
November 15, 2002
Jock Hamilton, one of the pool and spa industry’s leading, and at times controversial, experts on water chemistry died Oct. 20 of cancer. He was 61.
Hamilton grew up in Southern California, where, in 1961, he started a service/repair business called Allied Pool Service and Engineering.
In 1972, he expanded that business to include water chemistry and changed the firm’s name to United Chemical Corp.
During this period, Hamilton opened a cyanuric acid production plant in Torrance, Calif., going against industry tradition, which held that such chemicals couldn’t be manufactured by small, independently owned companies. At the time, Hamilton told Pool & Spa News, “Even as I was producing the stuff, people were telling me I couldn’t be and that only big chemical corporations were capable of doing it. In some ways, that attitude caused me more problems than the technical side of things did.”
Industry friends of Hamilton refer to him as “a maverick who did things his own way.” He has been described as a man who was “honest and abhorred lying and cheating and was generous to fault ... someone who did a lot for the industry, giving a lot of his time and his money.”
Hamilton was a constant presence at the Pool Industry Expo and Western Pool & Spa Show, where he taught water chemistry classes. His teachings included a water-balancing system dubbed the “Hamilton Index,” which he developed to replace the Langelier Saturation Index. Hamilton noted that the Langelier Index originally was designed for underground water pipes used by municipal water districts and was adopted by the pool industry in the 1960s. He claimed the industry had outgrown the system.
Part of the Hamilton Index system was the requirement that pool water pH be kept in a higher range, 7.8 to 8.2, one of his most controversial ideas.
By 1991, United Chemical had ceased production of cyanuric acid and was making specialty chemicals, such as algaecides and stain removers. The company purchased WET Industries, a manufacturer of pumps and filters and moved its operations to Piru, Calif.
In 1999, Hamilton sold the assets of WET Industries, along with its dealer program, WET Institute, to an investor group so he could focus more on his line of specialty chemicals. The two companies still share the same facility in Piru.
Hamilton was president of the National Spa & Pool Institute’s Southern California Chapter from 1992 to 1993.
He is survived by his wife, Jackie, and son Scott.
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I dont rise my filters weekly. I rinse them every few weeks.
I rinse my filter about every month, I have owned my tub for over 3 years and have 2 filters that I rotate, they both look new still. I use dichlor as a sanitizer at a cost of 24.99 a year. No skin moisturizer, no filter cleaner, baking soda to adjust PH (99 cents) nothing else. My water is clean and clear and most importantly, sanitized. Is yours???????? Bring a sample to a lab and see! I have nothing against Eco-One but it does not do what they say, and it is a decieving sales pitch. If you like it or need it use it. If not save your money and use dichlor, used right you soak in .5 to .0 PPM and kill nastys when your done. Because one thing is certain at 3-5 PPM stuff in your spa water dies. With Eco-One, well ya never know, unless you add dichlor, so....might as well just skip the Eco-One. Just my opinion and as we all know I like to voice it.
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I rinse my filter about every month, I have owned my tub for over 3 years and have 2 filters that I rotate, they both look new still. I use dichlor as a sanitizer at a cost of 24.99 a year. No skin moisturizer, no filter cleaner, baking soda to adjust PH (99 cents) nothing else. My water is clean and clear and most importantly, sanitized. Is yours???????? Bring a sample to a lab and see! I have nothing against Eco-One but it does not do what they say, and it is a decieving sales pitch. If you like it or need it use it. If not save your money and use dichlor, used right you soak in .5 to .0 PPM and kill nastys when your done. Because one thing is certain at 3-5 PPM stuff in your spa water dies. With Eco-One, well ya never know, unless you add dichlor, so....might as well just skip the Eco-One. Just my opinion and as we all know I like to voice it.
tman
What are you talking about? Eco One does not claim to be a sanitizer. What "decieving sales pitch" are you referring too?
This is copied from their web site.
Eco One should be used with a regular addition of a sanitizer to assure that bacteria is fast and effectively being destroyed. We recommend Dichlor (granular chlorine) and/or Rain Forest Blue with Eco One. Never use Trichlor (liquid chlorine) in you spa, Trichlor is designed for cooler pool temperatures and can have adverse effects in your spa.
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Chemicals: There is no need for clarifiers, scum digesters, foam reducers, etc. Eco One effectively replaces these chemicals, non-toxically.
A “minimum” amount of sanitizer should be used with Eco One. Eco One effectively reduces the “workload” of your sanitizer by taking care of the bulk chores non-toxically. Your sanitizer should ONLY be used too rid your spa of bacteria fast and effectively. Not break down foam, scum, odor, etc, which can be handled non-toxically. You’ll notice over time that Eco One not only reduces the amount of chemicals needed to maintain your tub, it prolongs the life of your sanitizer. So less is needed to maintain a sanitary tub.
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Just seems like an uneeded expense to me. But maybe for some it isn't. If ya gota use dichlor with it might as well just use dichlor.
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the same could be said for the N2 Mineral purifier and the ozone that you chose to use with your dichlor...
different approaches/chems work better for different people that's why there isn't a single accepted water treatment for all users.
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Nature 2 really does not do that much, except help reduce your sanitizer demand and maintain your water while you are unable to add anything and you still cant go that long.
It does not take much for a spa to get cloudy while on Nature 2, which demonstrates it's abilities. Sounds great on paper though! Most people that use Nature 2 leave the store thinking it's the only sanitizer they need, when in fact it is not.
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I do not feel N2 is worth the cost either. And Ozone was thrown in on the purchase otherwise it would not be there. If I had to buy the N2 I would not use it. Dichlor and baking soda.
Although O3 and N2 both reduce the amount of sanitizer required and allows me to skip a day or 2 or 3 with out any additions, which is just what I need because of my neglect on sanitizer additions.
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I received my Eco One kit and I am putting in the Spa purge/cleaner tonight. Hopefully I will be able to change the water this weekend, if not , next week. I am anxious to see how well this stuff works.
Jonathan
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Been using Eco One for almost 2 years and am ecstatic!!
Perfect water always. No foam, scum lines ever. Use only 1/3rd of recommended dose. Ph and Ta locks and stays locked. Followed instructions on Step 1 (purge) when spa (Caldera Niagara) was brand new. I change water every 8-10 months strictly out of "guilt", as it is crystal clear. Use dichlor (minimal) because it is smart, VERY inexpensive. Switch periodically with MPS, which Eco One actually recommends for mtc instead of dichlor. Benefit is NEVER having to use ANY other chems, products ( no up/down, ph this and that, clarify, foam quit/go away, anti-this, prevention that, test, test, test )
Can also travel, leave spa unattended for several months without spa crashing and/or crawling around on its own at night.....growing and bubbling gas, creating new andromeda strain.
Eco One is a great product. I have used nothing else. I do have ozone. I do not mind spending $$$, maintaining and/or frequently taylor testing. In fact I enjoy. Tests reveal same results every time. Ph, Ta locks and stays lock. Many insist on cabinet fulls of various bottles and products. To each his own. I'm glad I was not "afraid" or too regimented, obsessed or anal (whatever) to try what seemed like a very logical, simple and natural product/approach. Do not want to appear preachy or wiser. I knew/know very little about chemistry and this is/was my first spa. I read, researched all current and even archived posts from every available forum in selecting my spa. I can not thank and express enough gratitude to the many veteran/experienced members on the mainstay forums about the numerous aspects/issues regarding purchasing, installing spa!! No other way to learn intelligently procure information and/or investigate. Thank You!! However, If I would have listened to many of the same "spa-topians", I would have never tried Eco-One. WARNING.......Do NOT ignore the regular, repeat, veteran member's advice (If you do not know who they are......good luck on buying/installing any spa) freely and from experience..........wisely given!! Thanks Doc and forum member clan/cult.
Coolcorgi
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I tried Eco One and N2. Eco One did moisturize my skin some but could not justify the price. Tried N2 and did not really see any advantage with it. Used it every other water change. Twice each to compare. I find that just using Dichlor is as good as anything and its cheap. I shock every other week with MPS and Shock with Dichlor on the off weeks. Clean filters every three weeks. Use tub everyday and water is always clear.
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I realize it hasn't been that long since you made the switch, but what's your opinion of Eco One so far Jonathon ?
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Well,
I've been in the tub only 2 times since the switch. So far my skin is still dry. The water does feel different, I am not sure if that was the fresh water of the Eco One. Other than that I do not see much of a difference.
I have cut back the dichlor from 2 TEASP00NS to only one. So far it hasn't turned green ;)
Not sure what else to look for.
Jonathan
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I jumped on eco one last year after having annoying bout with dry skin. Didn't solve the problem right away but after some time I stopped having problems. It must have something to do with the second bottle that i added cuz it was around the second month that i stopped having problems. Maybe the eco one accumulates in the spa.
Another thing is a couple degrees can make a difference on your skin. So if your tub is 104 turn it down to 102 and see what that does. After a certain length of time hot water will damage skin no matter what so if you are spending a lot of time in the tub that could be your problem to.
There is a lot of chemicals, metals, impurities in tap water. One of these might be causing your problems. Everybody skin and water source is different so the same results cant be expected for everyone. You just have to find what works for you.
Best to you
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Thanks for the info Jeeper.
Jonathan