Hot Tub Forum

Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: tlc on January 28, 2005, 12:55:38 pm

Title: phoenix spas
Post by: tlc on January 28, 2005, 12:55:38 pm

Ok , I just want some clarification, Is a phoenix spa different from a haven?? I know this is a sore topic, I know what everyone thinks of you know who. But Is there a difference between the two spas?
tlc

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: SerjicalStrike on January 28, 2005, 01:33:07 pm

From what I understand, Phoenix is it's own brand of spas.  Haven buys shells from Phoenix and installs the equipment.

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: wmccall on January 28, 2005, 01:40:57 pm

Perhaps somebody should repost the factory pictures? - Thats all I know about Pheonix besides whats on thier website.

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Chris_H on January 28, 2005, 01:50:12 pm

TLC,

Yes there is a difference between the two brands.  However, nobody really knows exactly what those differences actually are.

First and foremost his spas are not tested to be electronically safe by either the UL or ETL.  You are more than welcome to go on either websites (ETL or UL) and you will not see Haven Spas listed.  You will however see Phoenix Spas listed.

I have been corresponding with him via his web board and he completely ignores the question of his spas being tested.  This is a blatant disregard for safety in my opinion and is probably the opinion of many other professionals on this web board.  He is the one building deathtraps.

I can forward you my correspondence with him if you private message me with your email address.

Chris H

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: SerjicalStrike on January 28, 2005, 02:06:59 pm

Please keep in mind Chris, that not being ETL or UL listed does not make a spa a deathtrap.  In searching UL I did not find Hotspring spas or Watkins listed for their tubs, only their pumps.  Does that make them deathtraps?  

The biggest problems I have with Haven's owner is the way he treats people that don't agree with him and the constant hammering of Hotspring spas.  

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Spatech_tuo on January 28, 2005, 02:12:22 pm

Quote

From what I understand, Phoenix is it's own brand of spas.  Haven buys shells from Phoenix and installs the equipment.

Actually, they buy the entire spa from Phoenix, not just the shell. Jim (owner of Haven spas, self tilted "The Spa Specialist" who most everyone else refers to as "The Spa Deceptionist") then rebrands it by putting on new stickers, adding a fan in the equipment compartment and a few other trinkets though I'm not sure of all the "modifications". He the marks up the price and does his best to "convince" people they are specialty items.

I don't know Phoenix spas intimately but I'd imagine them to be a middle of the road spa. At least with Phoenix you get a local dealer where you can see/tough/feel/test the spa and who can support your needs to some degree. With Haven you're buying site unseen over the internet at inflated prices relative to the arguably exact Phoenix spa and you won't have anyone there to service you if/when you have issues.

If that doesn't worry you, the internet site chronicling the nightmare a couple of his customers went though with him plus the fact his bank is taking him to court for the money he owes them would be more than enough to scare away anyone logical person IMO.

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Chris_H on January 28, 2005, 02:31:00 pm

SS,

“Please keep in mind Chris, that not being ETL or UL listed does not make a spa a deathtrap.  In searching UL I did not find Hotspring spas or Watkins listed for their tubs, only their pumps.  Does that make them deathtraps?”

You are right, Hotspring does not have a UL listing.  However, the testing requirements for UL and ETL are essentially the same.  They are ETL listed.  One is good enough for me, and obviously good enough for arguably the largest manufacturer of portable spas.  Haven Spas are not tested at all.  That is the difference.  It is a huge difference and a disregard for safety.

Chris

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: stuart on January 28, 2005, 02:31:42 pm

How about this;

(http://www.selberg.org/homes/speed/havenspas/files/Phenoix_Factory/Phoenix5.jpg)

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Chris_H on January 28, 2005, 02:53:38 pm

That picture is always good for a laugh on a cold day.

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Dr. Spa™ Ret. on January 28, 2005, 03:07:44 pm

Chris, I want to thank you and at least offer you a drink, if not an entire dinner. I haven't laughed as hard as I have lately, reading all that "dribble" at the other place......

By the way, you owe me a new keyboard. Mine shorted out when I was drinking coffee, read one of either your posts, or a response, and lost the entire cup laughing hysterically, and it spilled all down in my keyboard.........dang good thing I keep 2 or 3 extras on hand for just such emergencies!

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: tlc on January 28, 2005, 03:23:02 pm

Thank you all,
I really don't see much of a difference in the spas, I am looking for a new spa, came across his web, asked for info(have not received yet) and am very frustrated at this industry. Looked at HS and Bullfrog. Just wanted to spend under 8,000 for a great tub. Maybe I should just join a health club with one! Unfortunatly in Michigan we can't get a tub for awhile due to the snow!! I guess I'll stay frustrated for awhile. I certainly don't want a deathtrap! Especially since I have 3 little kids! My husband is an attorney and we have never heard of anyone being killed in a hot tub due to the tub suction, fire or anyother reason. certainly a child could drown but that would not be the manufactur or the companies fault!! I wish we could get back to the positives of ones hot tubs instead of slamming the competition!
TLC

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: spahappy on January 28, 2005, 03:27:15 pm

Quote

How about this;

(http://www.selberg.org/homes/speed/havenspas/files/Phenoix_Factory/Phoenix5.jpg)

Stuart, what is that big structure with the arms that look like they feed into the shop?

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: stuart on January 28, 2005, 03:36:17 pm

I'm not sure, Maybe it's an early D.A.I.T system to heat the building.... ;) ;)

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Dr. Spa™ Ret. on January 28, 2005, 03:46:31 pm

The factury use to be a wood mill. I believe what you're refering to is, or was, a dust (saw dust) collection system. On the left is basically a GIANT vacuum and the pipe leads to the building and the "outlets" for collecting the sawdust.

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Spatech_tuo on January 28, 2005, 04:51:27 pm

Quote

Especially since I have 3 little kids! My husband is an attorney and we have never heard of anyone being killed in a hot tub due to the tub suction, fire or anyother reason. certainly a child could drown but that would not be the manufactur or the companies fault!!

You never need to explain why you're cautious with your kids’ safety but Jim is playing a flim flam game when he tries to get you to think his spas are safe and others aren't. First of all, those death traps he speaks of are a few old style in grounds made a while back that may have had only one intake. Nowadays all you have to do is check the portable spas and you'll find they have 2 intakes per pump AS REQUIRED. He then attacks Hot Springs saying they don't do this the same way but he fails to mention how they filter. They tie 2 separate intakes for each pump to 2 separate filters. These are in a filter housing separated from the main tub. It is inconceivable that someone could remove both filters and somehow crawl into the filter compartment and get stuck on both intakes and there are zero incidences of this that I know of and he knows of none also. Portable spas made nowadays as a whole don't have these issues that I know of (or that he knows of).

His use of this scare tactic would be akin to him selling you a 2005 Chevy Cavalier with the speech that it is MUCH safer than the car his neighbor owns because his neighbor's is poorly designed yet he fails to inform you that his neighbor owns a 1975 Ford Pinto. He loves to compare his apple to an orange and proclaim how much smoother the skin is on his fruit.

If the guy wanted to trade me 4 quarters for a dollar bill I'd make sure to bite down on the quarters to make sure they were real before I'd trust him.

http://www.poolandspa.com:8080/upload/spa%20specialist.jpg

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: stuart on January 28, 2005, 05:35:03 pm

Quote

The factury use to be a wood mill. I believe what you're refering to is, or was, a dust (saw dust) collection system. On the left is basically a GIANT vacuum and the pipe leads to the building and the "outlets" for collecting the sawdust.

So your saying they suck?

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Chas on January 28, 2005, 05:45:04 pm

Quote

In searching UL I did not find Hotspring spas or Watkins listed for their tubs, only their pumps.  Chris

Oops - HotSpring, Tiger River, Caldera, HotSpot and Solana spas are all ETL listed and have been for a long time. They were UL listed before any other tub maker except Jacuzzi - and that's because the two companies worked together to create the UL standard for tubs.  BTW - ETL uses the same UL standard for testing.

You have to search for them under Watkins. Here is a sample listing, covering most of their tubs. There are many others just like this:


Ozone Generator, Model No. S/N-OA.

Portable Spas, Model Nos. L, LH, M, N, Y, Z, PC, MHC, PHC.

Self Contained Spa, Hot Spot Series, Model Nos. MAL, SOR, TOB, TRI. Highland Series, Model Nos. PAH, QLH, CUH. Oasis Series, Model Nos. OAI, OAI2. Paradise Series, Model Nos. GEA, TAA, HAA, MRA, KAA. Utopia Series, Model Nos. ASM, ELM, GEB, NIB, TAB. Solana Series, Model Nos. SX, RX, TX. Hot Springs Series, Model Nos. G, H, I, II, J, KK, S, V; amy be followed by addition letters/numbers. Tiger River Series, Model Nos. CHP, L, M, N; may be followed by additional letters/numbers.

Here's a link: ETL (http://etlwhidirectory.etlsemko.com/WebClients/ITS/DLP/products.nsf/$$Search?OpenForm)
Enter "Watkins" and search.

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Tman122 on January 29, 2005, 06:21:04 am

LOL Chris. I got a dousy going with him over there now that is completly un spa related, at least I am trying to keep it that way. The problem is you can't keep up a thread over there because he will never allow anyone other than himself to end a thread. If he is done he stops posting at a crucial time to make him look good, at least he thinks he looks good. He is truely a lost soul calling all other lost.

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: autoplay on January 29, 2005, 09:57:23 am

Likewise Tman :)  I posted there,but he is yet to post my comments.  Maybe I'm banned ;)

I did refer to you,and you hit it right on the head. He has laid his egg,and he can now mother it however he sees fit.

He could learn alot from my wife,in regards to PR skills.

(http://www.selberg.org/homes/speed/havenspas/files/Phenoix_Factory/Phoenix6.jpg)

Back to Topic.......Conjuna sells a rebranded spa.  You could purchase the same shell of a spa,for half the price.  Possibly Tman could help you install a fan with vents,if that's what you're looking for.?.

Conjuna is nuttin more than a delusional spa hero. He preys on the weak,and pounces when it suits him. He uses snake oil to sucker his future potential customers......and over-inflates his profit margin to steal from the masses.

Word to the wise,WET TEST prior to any committment!

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Chas on January 29, 2005, 11:48:52 am

Generally, I say just ignore the guy. I think it's the best way to see to it that he eventually makes all of his dreams come true.

But I am interested in any updated photos of the Phoenix plant: California has had a ton of rain lately, and I would love to see what is happening with all of those spas left outside for 'European Bleaching,' or whatever it is that's happening to them.

Also, the question of ETL listing on a tub that udergoes changes after leaving the factory should not be dropped - in my vaunted opinion...



;)

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Dr. Spa™ Ret. on January 29, 2005, 12:29:16 pm

It might be interesting to talk to ETL and find out exactly what type of modifications to a spa would invalidate the ETL listing.

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Mendocino101 on January 29, 2005, 01:17:55 pm

I have to ask....does Jim do enough business to warrant all the attention he gets....I am of the opinion that he is better off ignored....Don't get me wrong I think it is shameful the way he distorts the turth...I thought  using the pinto  was a good example of how he twists things....I just wonder is he worth so much time....

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: ndabunka on January 29, 2005, 08:40:39 pm

Quote

Thank you all,
I really don't see much of a difference in the spas, I am looking for a new spa, came across his web, asked for info(have not received yet) and am very frustrated at this industry. Looked at HS and Bullfrog. Just wanted to spend under 8,000 for a great tub. Maybe I should just join a health club with one! Unfortunatly in Michigan we can't get a tub for awhile due to the snow!! I guess I'll stay frustrated for awhile. I certainly don't want a deathtrap! Especially since I have 3 little kids! My husband is an attorney and we have never heard of anyone being killed in a hot tub due to the tub suction, fire or anyother reason. certainly a child could drown but that would not be the manufactur or the companies fault!! I wish we could get back to the positives of ones hot tubs instead of slamming the competition!
TLC

If your husband is an attorney you may want to consider Haven. Based on past experiences outlined on the internet by numerous people, you will need professional legal services in order to deal with Jim.  Maybe your husband can find out the REAL reason Jim changed his name (You DO know that the name he goes by is NOT his REAL name, don't you? Or maybe he could help us understand the details behind Jim's legal battles and not paying his creditors, or... I think you get the idea)  The recommendation of us senior forum guys is that you consider "Name brand" spas or at LEAST get a local dealer with a well known mfg. Haven and Pheonix are neither of these and we all recommend you NOT do business with them.  Hot Springs, Marquis, Bull Frog, Coleman, Emerald, Baja, SunDance, Jacuzzi, Caldera, etc are all good mfgs.

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: stuart on January 30, 2005, 12:06:50 am

Quote

If your husband is an attorney you may want to consider Haven. Based on past experiences outlined on the internet by numerous people, you will need professional legal services in order to deal with Jim.  Maybe your husband can find out the REAL reason Jim changed his name (You DO know that the name he goes by is NOT his REAL name, don't you? Or maybe he could help us understand the details behind Jim's legal battles and not paying his creditors, or... I think you get the idea)  The recommendation of us senior forum guys is that you consider "Name brand" spas or at LEAST get a local dealer with a well known mfg. Haven and Pheonix are neither of these and we all recommend you NOT do business with them.  Hot Springs, Marquis, Bull Frog, Coleman, Emerald, Baja, SunDance, Jacuzzi, Caldera, etc are all good mfgs.

I believe he changed his name to follow a religion. There was a woman involved and from the court records it did progress to violence and domestic disturbance arrest. Interesting guy.....

I’ve tried to get more info from the Ex-wife but the email address’s that where listed in old reports in Boulder haven’t gotten a response yet.

Promise I won't stop digging....

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Tman122 on January 30, 2005, 05:45:01 am

In Pheonix's defense. My best friend owns one and he has had the same control pac problems talked about. His dealer has been very prompt in fixing his problems and the tub has been great for him. He still owns it and has for 4 years. I have soaked in at many times and it is a good soak.

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Brewman on January 30, 2005, 03:08:52 pm

Jim cannot address his listing issue, because ANY answer would show his lies.

If he can truly stand behind the ETL/UL listing on the Phoenix spa, then it means that Jim does NOTHING to the spas, and sells them exactly the way he gets them from Phoenix.  If this is what is true, then he is really lying to his customers because he brags about how much he "customizes" them.  And the customer pays thousands of dollars more than they could get the spa from a Phoenix dealer.  

If he gets them as shells and cabinetry, would these Phoenix shells have an ETL or UL sticker?  What would be testable in this condition?

If he does modify them in any significant way, then he is mis representing their UL/ETL certification, because he changed the spa from it's tested condition.

Just adding the fan and tin foil is enough to conk the ETL listing, I'd bet.

So he does what he does best, dodes the issue, insults the person asking the question, and goes on another rant against Hot Springs.
Brewman

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Chas on January 30, 2005, 03:14:13 pm

Quote

So he does what he does best, dodges the issue, insults the person asking the question, and goes on another rant against Hot Springs.
Brewman

Rant against HotSpring? Jim?

Hmm.
;D ;D ;D

(http://www.hotspring.com/jpgs/top_hot_spring_spas_logo.jpg)

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: ndabunka on January 30, 2005, 10:41:57 pm

Quote

Jim cannot address his listing issue, because ANY answer would show his lies.

If he can truly stand behind the ETL/UL listing on the Phoenix spa, then it means that Jim does NOTHING to the spas, and sells them exactly the way he gets them from Phoenix.  If this is what is true, then he is really lying to his customers because he brags about how much he "customizes" them.  And the customer pays thousands of dollars more than they could get the spa from a Phoenix dealer.  

If he gets them as shells and cabinetry, would these Phoenix shells have an ETL or UL sticker?  What would be testable in this condition?

If he does modify them in any significant way, then he is mis representing their UL/ETL certification, because he changed the spa from it's tested condition.

Just adding the fan and tin foil is enough to conk the ETL listing, I'd bet.

So he does what he does best, dodes the issue, insults the person asking the question, and goes on another rant against Hot Springs.
Brewman

Brewman - I think we need full disclosure here. It looks like you are saying that Jim actual does SOMETHING well? Say it isn't so...

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: stuart on January 30, 2005, 11:04:57 pm

Quote

In Pheonix's defense. My best friend owns one and he has had the same control pac problems talked about. His dealer has been very prompt in fixing his problems and the tub has been great for him. He still owns it and has for 4 years. I have soaked in at many times and it is a good soak.

I have to tell you that we have 3 customers that bought at the fair and none of them can get service from the dealer. In addition to this all three have had many ongoing problems with the spas.

I have never seen a more cheaply built spa in my life including the spas at Home Depot!

Everyone that knows me on these forums know that I really try to be fair when a spa line deserves it and my statement above is as fair as I can get with Phoenix....

I would say that about the 6 year point your friends spa with be ready for the bone yard if it is built anything like what I’ve seen come out of their factory. Even a few Yugo’s performed well in the first couple of years…..

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Tman122 on January 31, 2005, 06:12:36 am

Your probably right Stew and I will keep you informed. His neighbor is the dealer so I am sure his promt service is related to that. It's funny that you are probably going to be right, but I told him it would be because of his water care not the longevity of the tub. He uses bleach for sanitation and hardly ever adjusts his water, always looks kinda cloudy.

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Brewman on January 31, 2005, 09:00:21 am

I looked at Phoenix in the early stages of our shopping.

They didn't really impress me all that much, and we crossed them off the list before even wet testing.
Part of that may have been the dealer, though.
The store just didn't inspire confidence in me.  I think they are selling a different brand of spa now.  They are not on Phoenix dealer locator anymore.
Brewman

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Chris_H on January 31, 2005, 09:18:29 am

I was banned over at the other place.  Any ideas on how I can change my IP address so I can at least read his often humorous rants?

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: wmccall on January 31, 2005, 10:17:04 am

Quote

I was banned over at the other place.  Any ideas on how I can change my IP address so I can at least read his often humorous rants?

What is your ISP?

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: tlc on January 31, 2005, 10:17:56 am

Chas,
I don't find haven spas listed under the ETL listing. I noticed he never anwsers your question if his spas are inspected after he modifies them. I will try ,lets see what he says. Everyone else take away your brand of spa, would you recommend another? which one.  I am looking at the Bullfrog I know nobody recommends them but  its what I'm looking at. I ruled out hot springs. Not because of him! They don't put any jets on the legs in a lounger.  I wet tested and It did have nice power in the jets. I am comparing to a cal spa (old one in father in laws house) and a HS soveriegn( a neighbors) The bullfrog is better than the HS. The cal I can't really compare since it is 12 yrs old.(but it never was any good) Going on this guys web the tub jets etc look very nice lots of them everywhere you can imagine. We Have a list of people who purchased one in michigan and I emailed them. I would like  to know if there are any happy haven customers out there!  Every business has unhappy customers! Many businesses have lemons!! Look at cars!! If many are happy maybe this guy just likes rattling everyones feathers!! You seem to get heated debates over there!!  Maybe you can get your company to go after him!
Tlc

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: tlc on January 31, 2005, 10:35:46 am

I just posted , lets see what he says. If he doesn't change the spa from the etl listing what is the point of changing it at all he should just sell phoenix spas! There aren't any dealers anywhere in the midwest!!
TLC

Title: Q!
Post by: wmccall on January 31, 2005, 10:37:48 am

Quote

Chas,
I. Everyone else take away your brand of spa, would you recommend another? which one.  

They don't put any jets on the legs in a lounger.  I wet tested and It did have nice power in the jets. !
Tlc

Mine has good strong jets in the legs, but I'm not allowed to tell you about it!

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Chris_H on January 31, 2005, 11:03:16 am

Quote

He finally admitted this:

"We do not change the spas in anyway from the ETL listing and testing."

Which means that if you want a Phoenix spa, you should buy it from them for thousands less.

But I would stick with one of the big players, such as HotSpring, Tiger River, Caldera, Sundance etc.

I must have read this 10 times and I am still amazed.  It is basically what every one of the regular posters on here have been saying for 5 + years.  Great job!

Could someone please forward all of his posts to my email address with all of your responses.  It is chrish484@hotmail.com.

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Dr. Spa™ Ret. on January 31, 2005, 11:39:00 am

Gimmie about an hour Chris.... I have a site bookmarked  (at the office) that will get you back on the site to read the entertainment.

I'll PM the URL to you...

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Spatech_tuo on January 31, 2005, 12:00:35 pm

Quote

I am looking at the Bullfrog I know nobody recommends them but  its what I'm looking at.

Maybe nobody RECOMMENDS them as their favorite but that doesn't mean we all have an issue with them. Check them out, they may be right for you.

Quote

I ruled out hot springs. Not because of him! They don't put any jets on the legs in a lounger.  

I'd be careful on this. IMO, jets along the back of the legs sounds great for a massage but the one thing you have to be careful of in a lounge is floating and having jets under your legs propels you upward. Wet testing a spa at the dealer in general is wise and in this case I would never get a lounge spa with jets under the legs without first wet testing to see if the lounge even worked. I think these jets look great in a picture and when you're looking at the spa from the outside but getting in and not floating is a different matter.

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: tlc on January 31, 2005, 12:28:36 pm

Thanks,
I guess in all the chit chat I forgot about floating out of the lounger.
Why Wmccall cant you tell me about your hot tub?

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Lori on January 31, 2005, 12:50:27 pm

tlc,

You told us to forget the spa we bought!  So, in our generous moderator's stead, I will tell you, it is a Dynasty (brand).  I tried to go to his review to let you know the model, but for some reason, it isn't working for me!  I want to say it is the Excalibur.

Anyway, something to consider, as well.  When looking online, the Sundance Altamar appeared to have leg jets, but they are really just the outlets for the air bubbler!  So, be aware of that!

good luck!!!

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: wmccall on January 31, 2005, 01:01:29 pm

Quote

tlc,

You told us to forget the spa we bought!  So, in our generous moderator's stead, I will tell you, it is a Dynasty (brand).  I tried to go to his review to let you know the model, but for some reason, it isn't working for me!  I want to say it is the Excalibur.


good luck!!!

Score one for the little lady.  I was in the shop last week and I think Dynasy has improved the lounger even more in the new Advantage Series.

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: bobhol on January 31, 2005, 01:17:35 pm

my Hydropool tub has leg jets in the lounger. On low the jets will not make me float. on high speed with air injection I will float only if wearing my suit. Need i say more?...Bobhol

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Chas on January 31, 2005, 05:49:51 pm

HotSpring puts jets down by the feet in most of their loungers. Some are the mid-sized jets, other models have the large jets, and some have the extra-large. They work great for feet, of course, but also they do a wonderful job of massaging the calf muscles. You just lift the foot a bit, and they go to work on the calf, without the floating.

There are many folks who put jets under the legs in loungers, but they hit just one spot per jet. This may be wonderful for you - wet test wet test wet test - or you many want the greater flexibility of the HS method.

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Dr. Spa™ Ret. on January 31, 2005, 06:39:14 pm

Anyone notice that the ETL label our "friend" touts is on a 50hz pack?

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: stuart on January 31, 2005, 06:47:48 pm

Quote

Anyone notice that the ETL label our "friend" touts is on a 50hz pack?

No I didn't! Thanks for pointing that out.... Now go install your sauna heater ;)

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Spatech_tuo on January 31, 2005, 10:47:32 pm

Quote

Anyone notice that the ETL label our "friend" touts is on a 50hz pack?

That's due to his international sales push. He said he plans to double his current European sales from 1 spa every 6 years to 1 every 3.

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Tman122 on February 01, 2005, 05:17:41 am

Sorry Moderators for this rant. I can't seem to get to the end of a thread over on his site, not sure why I even bother (but like a little crying kid he has again takin his ball from the game and ran home with it)

Why anyone would ever consider buying anything from a man with so little respect for his fellow humans is behond me.

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Brewman on February 01, 2005, 08:26:54 am

Quote

Why anyone would ever consider buying anything from a man with so little respect for his fellow humans is behond me.

Why anyone would buy a spa site unseen is beyond me.  I guess the prospect of hosting wet tests for complete strangers appeals to a few people here and there.  And also to those who like a warranty where you wait for parts in the mail and install them yourself.  


Brewman  

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: jaw on February 01, 2005, 10:10:40 am

No Offense - I have been banned from his site - at least 3 times - dynamic (whatevers) are great!


I thought the consensus was leave him alone and he will go away.

This was from Chas Robert (of RHTs), and others.  

Yet, here we go again.

Guys, do as you please, but not in a do as I say not as I do mode nor in a flip flopping mode.

Ok, that said, thanks as always for the entertainment value that this thread and others like it afford.

Title: Re: phoenix spas
Post by: Chas on February 01, 2005, 12:42:59 pm

You are correct. I removed my post about the other board.

We will gladly answer questions about Phoenix tubs, which is the topic here.

Thanks for the reminder.