Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Yorag on October 22, 2004, 07:49:50 pm
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I have a 7 year old Cal Spas Hawaiian Classic 2000 which has developed no fewer than (13) 1" to 4" blisters in the interior. One of these blisters is located at a drain outlet and leaks profusely when the pump is on.
According to the "warranty" that came with the spa, the acrylic plus shell is supposed to be warranted for 10 years.
After talking with a Cal Spas' CSR, they quickly made several attempts to invalidate my warranty over the phone by claiming that I must have mistreated it, overheated, or improperly installed it. They even went so far as to claim that because the dealer I purchased it from is no longer in business that the warranty is invalid. Keep in mind that the warranty is on Cal Spas paperwork, not the dealers. The bottom line is that they are refusing to honor the terms of their own warranty.
I am preparing to pursue this issue through legal channels but in the meantime, and for who knows how long, I am without a spa.
After talking with other people, dealers and message boards, I have discovered that this is a typical scenario with Cal Spas when it comes to handling warranty problems. In addition, the blistering issue also seems to be some type of manufacturing defect inherent in some of the older Cal Spas.
Any of you who have experienced similar situations with this are encouraged to post. It would be interesting to see how others have or haven't been resolved.
Just a heads up for potential Cal Spas customers....you get what you pay for and in my case much less.
Run don't walk to another brand if you are currently considering purchasing a Cal Spa, you'll be glad you did.
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I'm sorry to read about your problems. I'm even more sorry to say it is not uncommon with Cal.
Keep us posted. :'( :'(
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Interesting that they'd be able to diagnose the source of this problem without sending someone out to see the spa. I suppose it's in their best interest to delay you as long as possible, hoping you'll go away. They've already got your money long ago, and realize that with the POS spa you got you won't be buying another from them. :P
Brewman
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Well, so much for the "improvements" in the company since Chuck Hewit left. Souds like they are still up to their old tricks. That's good for the rest of us though. The more the word gets out, the less of those tubs get sold.
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Bumping my own post because I want people to see the information contained.
If I can't bring Cal Spas to the table to resolve my warranty issues, then I don't want others to get caught in the same situation.
Yes I did get a POS spa, but I didn't realize it when I bought it.
The only "improvements" I see happening at Cal Spas is further expansion of their facility. Obviously not in their product or service.
I really think their business plan is to sell one spa to each customer and move on. To hell with reputation and customer service. Who needs it when you're selling disposable tubs.
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How did the spa work for you over the seven years?
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Bumping my own post because I want people to see the information contained.
If I can't bring Cal Spas to the table to resolve my warranty issues, then I don't want others to get caught in the same situation.
Yes I did get a POS spa, but I didn't realize it when I bought it.
The only "improvements" I see happening at Cal Spas is further expansion of their facility. Obviously not in their product or service.
I really think their business plan is to sell one spa to each customer and move on. To hell with reputation and customer service. Who needs it when you're selling disposable tubs.
Here's a little secret for you. If you post a negative on eopinions.com or ripoffreport.com they will probably take care of you just to keep you quiet. They seem to follow these boards and take care of only the people that gripe the loudest. Sad that you have to resort to that to get good customer service. Please keep us informed.
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I had a fair amount of other issues as well. About a month after we purchased it, the diverter valve cracked and began leaking, the temperature sensor came out of the well and there were several small leaks at the outlets. These were all repaired by the dealer without any problems or expense.
After about 4 years, the Balboa Controls circuit board ($375.00) fried for no apparent reason, and the spa was non-operable for over 3 months while I battled with Cal Spas to get it replaced under the 5 year warranty. Since the dealer was already out of business at that time, I had to go direct to Cal Spas for warranty repair. Since there were no "authorized" Cal Spa service reps in my area, I had to pay another spa contractor to fix it and then send the entire bill to Cal Spa for reimbursement. That took several weeks of repeated phone calls and arguing to finally get resolved.
Other than these quality / warranty related issues, the spa has functioned properly.
My point is, if you're going to sell a 5 year unconditional parts and 10 year shell warranty, then honor the terms of your warranty!
This attitude of "the customer is always wrong" and must have done something to cause this to happen, is completely unacceptable, and the offending manufacturer must be made accountable for their inactions.
Spas should last between 15-20 years with proper maintenance and the occasional minor repair. To have one become completely useless after only 7 is unacceptable.
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If you post a negative on eopinions.com or ripoffreport.com they will probably take care of you just to keep you quiet
Thanks Stuart, I'll do just that. I have already filed complaints with the Dept. of Consumer Affairs and the Better Business Bureau. I'm not going to hesitate to add a couple more to the list if it might expedite a resolution.
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Thanks Stuart, I'll do just that. I have already filed complaints with the Dept. of Consumer Affairs and the Better Business Bureau. I'm not going to hesitate to add a couple more to the list if it might expedite a resolution.
check this out, complete with factory rebuttle
http://ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff14909.htm
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Stuart,
You are so full of it I mean information. ??? ???
Rocket
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Stuart,
You are so full of it I mean information. ??? ???
Rocket
What you should have said is;
Stuart,
You are so full of mean information!
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I forgot to add something…….
Take My Cal Spa.........Please
NO THANKS!
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Here's the report I filed at Rip off Reports.com. it's the most recent one.
http://ripoffreport.com/results.asp?q1=ALL&q5=Cal+Spas&submit2=Search%21&q4=&q6=&q3=&q2=&q7=&searchtype=0
Surprised to see so many others with the same complaints.
Thanks for the suggestion!
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Here's the report I filed at Rip off Reports.com.
http://ripoffreport.com/results.asp?q1=ALL&q5=Cal+Spas&submit2=Search%21&q4=&q6=&q3=&q2=&q7=&searchtype=0
Surprised to see so many others with the same complaints.
Thanks for the suggestion!
Here, I'll help
http://ripoffreport.com/results.asp?q1=ALL&q5=Cal+Spas&submit2=Search%21&q4=&q6=&q3=&q2=&q7=&searchtype=0
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Yorag,
Many times on these spa boards such a negative post will bring up charges of working for the competition and just trying to bad mouth a brand, but your report seems to speak with a clarity and calmness that portrays credability. Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Looking at all the brands that we did, its not hard to see why most manufacturers offer long warranties on the shells. Its hard to imagine how you could intentionally abuse one, in the course of normal usage. I assume you didn't let it freeze and allow small children to play ice hockey on it.
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I liked your post subject on rip-off.com Cal SPa Sucks - hmmm sounds familiar!
Post a review here to help others avoid this pos.
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I assume you didn't let it freeze and allow small children to play ice hockey on it.
Not possible here in California.:) The spa was always covered except when in use and we kept it heated at 98 - 100 at all times.
I also sent ripoffreports.com several photos of the (13) blisters that developed. They will attach them to the report. Many of the blisters were in inconspicuous places (corners of seats, etc) and were not clearly visible until I drained it and actually counted them.They almost blend in with the inside corner contours. The two major ones were very visible and when one burst on the bottom recently, I realized there was a significant problem.
Hopefully I'll get some sort of response from Cal Spas.
I can assure you that I am not affiliated with the spa industry in any way shape or form. Just a very disenchanted spa owner.
Thanks for correcting my link stuart
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Has Cal spas responded on that posting you did with rip off report?
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NO response to the ripoffreport.com posting.
NO respose to the certified letter I sent them on 10/19/04.
NO response to the voice mail I left for Catherine Irving.
NO response to the BBB report I filed against them.
NO response to the report I filed with the California State Dept. of Consumer Affairs against them.
Short of getting an attorney involved, I'm just waiting for a response of some type from them which will tell me where I need to pursue my next line of offense.
In the event that they opt. to repair rather than replace, is it possible to even repair a shell with 13 blisters in it, two of which are popped? What is to prevent more from occuring? Since this spa is a full foam insulated type, I don't see how anyone could replace the entire shell.
All advice welcomed.
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Yes, blisters can be repaired. I sell spas with shells made from a non-laminated material, so I don't have much experience in this type of repair, but I have done as many as a dozen or so on one spa in days gone by.
What's to keep them from forming again, or what's to keep more from forming? Nothing, really.
I would sure love to have them replace your spa.... I think they are beginning to realize that's the right thing to do, and they are trying real hard to get out of doing it.
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Their 1996 - 10 year shell warranty is not prorated, it simply says repair or replace.
I can only imagine what the repairs would look like :-/ And I might be doing it again in another year if the problem continues. Doesn't seem like a practical solution to me.
I too am hoping that they offer to replace it. As my luck goes they will probably offer me another Cal Spa as a replacement.... >:(
Considering the situation, I suppose that would be better than what I have now, which is an empty spa that I am unable to use. :'(
The ideal scenario would be to just refund my purchase price and I could buy something else, but as of today I haven't heard anything from them.
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Today I had the extreme pleasure of speaking with "Tammy" of Cal Spas customer service.
Their solution to my blistering issue is to have me send the spa to their factory in Pomona, California at MY expense for inspection.
After the inspection, they will determine if the blistering is covered under the warranty. One can only speculate how this "inspection" will go.
I asked her why they couldn't send a "Factory Authorized Service Agent" to my home to inspect it, and her response was that their decision was to have me send the spa to them.
What a farce.....
Here is what the terms of "their" warranty specifically state:
"In the event of any malfunction or defect covered under the terms of this warranty,a Factory Authorized Service Agent of Cal Spas will repair the portable spa. To obtain service, contact the Factory Authorized Service Agent in your area, there will be no charge for parts, labor or the freight costs for parts necessary to repair the spa. After One Year, a Thirty-Five ($35) dollar trip charge must be received at the time of service"
Since there are no "Factory Authorized Service Agents" in my area (Northern California), I think it is incumbent upon Cal Spas to make the necessaary arrangements to have the spa inspected on my premises. Nowhere in the warranty does it stipulate that I must send the spa to them at my expense. I can only imagine how much that would cost and what would happen after they conveniently determined that the spa is not covered under the warranty.
It's looking more and more like this is going to end up in a legal battle, where they stand to lose a lot more than if they had just taken a reasonable approach to resolving the matter.
Any comments or suggestions are welcomed.
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You realize that their probably going to blame it on "Sunlight"!
The other prediction here is that now they will put a rebuttle in on the ripoffs.com site saying that they offered to bring it to the factory and repair it for you....
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Sunlight??? You've got to be kidding... The spa is covered about 23 hours per day and when it's uncovered it's dark outside and it's under a gazebo too. In addition, it's covered with an official "Cal Spa and Billiards" cover. That's not going to fly in any manner, shape or form.
I've already updated my report at Ripoff.com to reflect today's information. Any rebuttal from them will only reinforce their incompetence and ignorance.
Demanding that I send the installed and wired 750 lb. spa to them for inspection is blatantly incompetent and unreasonable. The cost to unhook the wiring, crane the spa out of my yard and truck it to Pomona would be in excess of $1,000. These people need to take a reality pill and look at the big picture. They have the opportunity to resolve this in a rational manner but they choose to take the path of most expense.
They stand to lose a lot more than just a spa replacement if this goes where I think it's going.
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I wish I had kept track of how many times I have been down that road with that same company over the years - or at least watched as a customer went through it.
I wish you the best, keep a smile on your face, and have your attorney start writing letters ASAP.
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I wish I had kept track of how many times I have been down that road with that same company over the years - or at least watched as a customer went through it.
I wish you the best, keep a smile on your face, and have your attorney start writing letters ASAP.
Wow,
if it was not for the niceties in that post I would have thought I wrote that post.
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<EOM>
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Any updates?
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Ok all of you experienced professionals, if Cal spas was to claim user neglect, how could you abuse a tub bad enough to cause this kind of damage?
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I agree that they will probably try to say it was left out in the sun. I would suggest takng many pictures of the installation showing that it is under a gazebo etc... if you havent already done so.
I remember going thru the Cal booth at the Aqua show 2 yrs ago. We were looking for another line to bring in and the dominate phrase that the guy who runs Cal Spa kept saying was " My spas are Bitchin' ". I am so glad we didnt go with them. Since then however we all have a catch phrase that we use around our showroom. "Bitchin'"
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Ok all of you experienced professionals, if Cal spas was to claim user neglect, how could you abuse a tub bad enough to cause this kind of damage?
Exposure to direct sunlight, without water in the tub will accelerate the process of delamination of the acrylic and its backing (fiberglass, ABS etc.). I would bet good money that if it is sun damage, it occurred before the customer got the tub at a fair/parking lot sale.
HTM
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wow I just looked back a tmy last post and they have it programed to change swear words into the literal meaning.
It just doesnt sound the same. My spas are pregnant dog'in. ( I typed it that way this time )
" My spas are:
b
i
t
c
h
i
n'
"
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ok that worked.
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My spa has never been exposed to direct sunlight while we've owned it. I got it off the showroom floor, who knows what exposure it received prior to that.
No new news to date. Sent them an overnight registered letter on 10/28/04 asking that they repair or replace my spa in accordance with the terms of the warranty. Asked them to formally respond by 11/08/04, or I file a suit in small claims against them.
I've taken over a dozen digital photos of the spa, both inside and out from just about every angle. The funny thing is Cal Spas has never asked for any of the photos or offered to send a tech. out to look at the spa.
They instead prefer to diagnose the problems over the phone and make unreasonable demands (send the spa to them for "inspection").
I have a feeling this is going to be a long, long battle. I'll be lucky to be back in a spa before the end of the year... :'(
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Y'know Yorag, considering the text in this thread I think it is unlikely that anyone would actually take you up on your request in the title of the thread.......
;)
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Oh, HTM, that's not at all true. ::)
My local landfill will take it gladly. (I'll just have to pay a small fee to dump it.) ;)
And, the title of my thread is just kind of a little play on words and a tribute to the late Henny Youngman (edited). One of his infamous lines was: "Take my Wife........Please".
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the title of my thread is just kind of a little play on words and a tribute to the late great Rodney Dangerfield. One of his infamous lines was: "Take my Wife........Please"
Actually it was Henny Youngman, but he's dead too.
We seem to have had quite a few misquotes lately. I think we need a quote fact checker along with a moderator.
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Good Luck Yorag,
For the price Cal Spas charges for their product they should give premium service as well. Based on threads such as yours they went out the window a long time ago as a consideration for me. Hopefully forums such as this one will keep enought business away from them so that they will smarten up!
Zoo
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Hi Yorag:
A few suggestions. First, speaking from experience, getting a company to ACT is all about LEVERAGE. Many unscrupulous companies do NOTHING because they don't "hear" the right words from a disgruntled consumer. It sounds like you have been complaining to them and "threatening" them with action (don't take my words wrong, I'm 100% on YOUR side) but they probably view it as "low impact" and have decided to ignore it. Try this. Compose a direct but polite letter listing your grievances. Start the letter by saying "By way of this letter I am notifying you that the product I purchased from your company (SPA MODEL XXX, SERIAL NUMBER YYYY) on DATE XXXX is defective under the terms of your warranty and I am requesting an immediate response by a representative of your company to repair or replace the product." Attach a copy of the warranty labeled "Exhibit #1," along with CLEAR pictures of the defective areas of the spa shell. Label the pictures as exhibits also. In the body of the letter, specifically number and describe each defective area, using references to the to the attached pictures. For example:
"1.) An approximate 1" square section of the spa shell located at the bottom of seat "A" has delaminated (please see Exhibit #2)."
At the end of the enumerated section, tie each defective issue back to the waranty, quoting from the warranty. For example: "According to page 61, paragraph 2 of your product warranty, "Cal Spas warranties the Altair Plus/Quarite Plus interior surfaces from cracks, blisters, peeling, discoloration, and delamination for a period of ten years from the original date of purchase (please see Exhibit #10)." Clearly, this problem falls within the scope of warranty coverage."
Second, I'd also suggest that you ask people on this forum to recommend a reputible spa service technician in your area to come look at the tub. Pay this individual for a service call and to write a letter "to whom it may concern." In the letter, have him/her describe their credentials, the reason why they were contacted by you, the date and time they examined your spa, the general condition of your spa, the damaged areas of your spa, and a comparison of such damage to damage in other products they MAY be familiar with. The key here is to PROVE a defect exists that may be common and that an EXPERT made such an assessment. Refer to this letter like this:
"In an effort to validate my warranty complaint, I retained Mr. XXXX of YYYY Spas Inc. to inspect my spa and evaluate the damage I am reporting. He completed his inspection on DATE XXXX and his report is attached as Exhibit #11. In short, he states "Mr. Yorag's Calspas Hawaiian Classic 2000 has 13 blisters that are obvious flaws in the structural shell of his spa. In my opinion, there is no obvious remedy for repairing such damage short of completely replacing the spa shell."
Third, break out the government guns. Because Calspas sells nationally, they fall under federal consumer protection laws which may provide you with additional leverage. At the very least you can file a complaint concerning the company which puts them in the federal database. For the complaint form, click here. (https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01) The State of California department you mentioned in one post is also a good idea. My suggestion is to download the forms from government sites, complete them, and include them as an attachment. Refer to them in your letter like this:
"Attached are Federal Trade Commission and California State Dept. of Consumer Affairs consumer complaint forms detailing the defective issues discussed in this notice. Unless I am contacted by your company no later than DATE XXXX concerning an equitable method to repair or replace your defective product, I shall proceed with filing a complaint with each of these agencies."
Finally, clearly identify to the company the solution you are requesting for your complaint. Quote from the warranty and be reasonable (sending you a check for the original purchase price after 7 years is probably NOT reasonable :-/). Close the letter like this:
"Please accept this letter as notification of a request for immediate inspection, repair and/or replacement of a defective product sold to me by your company. In sending this notice, I have identified the defect(s) requiring repair and/or replacement, described the warranty coverage your company provides for repairing the defect(s), provided third party verification as to the extent of the defect(s) and proposed a reasonable remedy. Unless I receive notice from your company no later than 5 PM on DATE XXXX *** 30 days from date of this letter ***, I shall assume you do not intend to honor the terms of your warranty and I shall be forced to proceed with legal action against your firm."
It's VERY important that you send a letter like this to a company PRIOR to going to court in an attempt to recover damages. Most of these cases are decided by judges who will first ask if you attempted informal means to solve your grievance. They also want more than YOUR opinion concerning damage. If the company has a lawyer representing them (which, by the way, you DON'T need) they will try to "fuzz" the issue by using delaying and confounding tactics. Using a letter like this eliminates 90% of such problems.
Good luck!
Drewski
:P
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Wow Drew, Very nice.
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That's pretty much what I have done in the two registered letters I have already sent them. I have been down this road many times with different issues, and I think I have the process down. I have essentially summarized what I have done for this forum to keep things simple.
The first letter had several photos labeled as exhibits along with copies of the sales receipt and warranty. In the first letter, I described in detail the defect and what I expected to be done about it in accordance with the warranty. They did not reply in writing and instead had a CSR call me to tell me that I needed to send the spa to them.
My second letter once again referenced the first (including all of the copies) disagreed with their proposed solution and gave them 10 days to resolve the defects in accordance with the terms of the warranty. Repair or replace, simple as that.
I have already hired another reputable spa tech. to come look at it, and I am waiting for his written report as I write.
I ran into a dead end with the State Dept. of Consumer Affairs, here is what they responded with:
Thank you for contacting the Department of Consumer Affairs. The
information you provided indicates that this is a business that does not
require registration with any regulatory division within the Department;
however, we would like to offer alternative resolution options and
information.
We recommend that you contact the Better Business Bureau (BBB) in order to
file a complaint. BBB's are nonprofit organizations that promote an
ethical marketplace by encouraging honest business advertising and selling
practices. They offer a variety of consumer services including information
about a business, particularly whether or not there are unanswered or
unsettled complaints. For more information, please visit the BBB website
at http://www.bbb.org.
We also recommend contacting a local consumer protection agency for
assistance. Local consumer protection agencies offer consumer information
and mediation services regarding various consumer vs. business disputes. A
list of local consumer protection agencies is available via the DCA website
at www.dca.ca.gov/r_r/consume1.htm.
In the event you are unable to resolve this matter with the assistance of
the BBB and local consumer protection agency, we suggest you consider
consulting with a small claims court advisor. The Small Claims Court is a
special court where, for a minimal cost, two parties may settle their
disputes without the use of legal representation and the cost of attorney
fees. DCA created Using the Small Claims Court, a publication that provides
a general overview of the system to assist consumers who are considering
whether to file a claim in Small Claims Court. The handbook also provides a
list of small claims advisory services, which offer assistance with filing
small claim actions and are available free of charge in most counties. You
may access Using the Small Claims Court via the Department's website at
www.dca.ca.gov/legal/small_claims/.
The BBB is essentially worthless in these types of situations, but I have already filed a complaint with them anyway.
The BBB has no authority to mediate or make decisions on behalf of either party, they simply register if any complaints have been filed with them about the company and if they are resolved.
Here in California, no attorneys are allowed to participate in Small Claims actions. The limit is $5,000 or less. I paid $4,500 for the spa. It's you against the firm, and cases are typically won by a simple preponderance of evidence.
I have a lot of documentation, they have none.
Furthermore because the spa was sold in Northern California, the courts in this county will preside over this case. This means they will have to fly someone from Southern California to represent them.
I hope it doesn't come to that, but it's not looking very promising at this point. I haven't been able to communicate with anyone at Cal Spas other than 2 CSR's over the phone.
I will also check out the Federal link you posted and see what I can do with them as well.
Thanks for all of your concise information Drewski. I think I have all of the bases covered at this point, and the ball is in their court now. 6 days and counting.......
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Yorag
I guess you can at least hope the Cal Spas pulls a no show if you take them to small claims court- you'll get a default judgement.
You're lucky in a way. I wanted to sue someone in small claims court once, and the rule here was that I had to file the suit in the county where the defendant lived, not where I lived. It was far enough away from here that I just dropped the whole idea.
Good luck to you, whatever avenue you persue.
Brewman
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Hi Yorag:
Sounds like you have it covered! I'd still sugest following up with an independent evaluation of the spa shell prior to going to court.
I'll be at a conference in Keystone, Colorado through Sunday, so I'll be out of touch if no LAN is avalable in my hotel room. I'm interested to hear of the outcome...
Thanks...
Drewski
8)
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I notice the domain name calspasucks.com is still available.
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Yeah, I let it lapse....
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I notice the domain name calspasucks.com is still available.
Aren't you supposed to stay neutral now!?!?
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Received a reply from the BBB, and as I mentioned before, they are useless:
Thank you for letting us know of your dissatisfaction with the
company's response to your complaint. In a further effort to help
you reach a mutually satisfactory resolution, we forwarded your
comments to the company. They have responded with their final
disposition of this matter, and I am enclosing a copy.
We cannot pursue your complaint further, and we are closing our file.
We will note in our files that you disputed the outcome of this
complaint, and this will become part of the information we report to
the public about this company.
And of course here is Cal Spas misinformed response:
Company's final response to customer request
At this time we have offered the customer his options. His spa is no
longer under warranty, that is verified on his very own sales
receipt. No adjustments will be made.
It's just amazing how they can choose to ignore the issues and facts.
My sales receipt has the box checked which indicates that it is a "Quarite/Acrylic Plus" shell. The "Quarite/Acrylic Plus" shell is specifically covered by the warranty as follows:
"Shell Structure/Surface Warranty: Cal Spas warrants the shell structure/surface finish of it's Altair Plus and Quarite Plus spas not to peel. crack, wrinkle, blister, yellow, efface, or delaminate for a period of Ten years from it's purchase date".
What am I missing here? The spa was delivered in 1997.
Looks like it's off to court we go......
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Regarding where you can sue a defendant - small claims court or otherwise. . . most states provide that you can sue a "business" defendant in any county where they do business.
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And, Cal Spas rebuttal posted on the Ripoffreport.com site:
I am responding to the negative information that Gary is saying regarding Cal Spas. Gary's warranty is expired, his warranty exipred 4 years ago. The spa had a 5 year warranty. According to his receipt, it states plan that he was covered under Quarite not Acrylic. I personally spoke to him and advised that Cal Spas is willing to evaluate his spa, but he is responsible for shipping the spa back to us. A spa does not blister overnight, why is this problem just now being reported to us. This is a 1996 spa. If this spa was under warranty their would be no problem for us to make the necessary repairs. Also this could be a result of mistreating due to spa not being covered.
Tammie - Pomona, California
U.S.A.
Apparently it's too much to ask that they be able to read the terms of their own warranty and comprehend basic math.....
Let's see......spa purchased on 12/31/96...according to my math that makes the spa about 7 years and 10 months old.
his warranty exipred 4 years ago.
I can't even figure that one out...a 3 year warranty??????
The spa had a 5 year warranty.
No, wait...you said before it was only 3 year...but wait...your warranty SAYS 10.....
Also this could be a result of mistreating due to spa not being covered.
Funny that they are able to make these type of ASSumptions without having ever seen the spa.
Hey people, it's covered 99% of the time with your very own "Cal Spas & Billiards" insulated cover and it's located under a gazebo. Nice try.....
A spa does not blister overnight, why is this problem just now being reported to us.
Well, 1 of the blisters burst when I stepped on it. That caused me to search for others which I discovered tucked away in the corners of the seats, etc. Kind of hard to see them when the spa is full of water and is primarily used in the evenings. And besides, what difference does it make when they were disovered, especially when you are taking the attitude that they aren't covered under the warranty.
I posted a response on:
[link]http://ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff114301.htm[/link]
however it may be several hours before it's posted.
I'll see you in court Cal Spas....we'll let the judge decide this one!
::)
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I just had a strange though (yeah, happens alot). When reading a warranty, if you say "lifetime" most states put a limit on what lifetime means, and usually that limit is 5-7 years. I interpret this as the state saying "you should not have to warrant a product longer than 5-7 years".
Now, what is Cal Spas *says* 10, but knows under state laws they are only responsible for 7? Isn't saying "lifetime" and then only getting 7 just the same as saying "10" and only getting 7?
Again, not sure if that is applicable, as I am not a lawyer but maybe that is what they'll argue in court?
-Ed
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I continue to be amazed at this saga. So I guess their spas are not as
"b
i
t
c
h
i
n' "
as Casey said they were.
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Again, not sure if that is applicable, as I am not a lawyer but maybe that is what they'll argue in court?
I think the courts will uphold the word of the warranty as it doesn't allow for any interpretation, as the use of "lifetime"
implies.
Of course all of this is predicated on them actually showing up in court.
If they won't even make an effort to send a tech. out to look at the spa, I doubt they will fly a company rep. to northern California to appear in small claims court..
Judgement Plaintiff!!!! ;D :)
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If they won't even make an effort to send a tech. out to look at the spa, I doubt they will fly a company rep. to northern California to appear in small claims court..
Judgement Plaintiff!!!! ;D :)
YEAH!!!
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Aren't you supposed to stay neutral now!?!?
I was just pointing it out, its something I check periodically when I see a company perform badly. I recently checked and found out libertymutualinsurancesucks.com is not available. My only personal experience with Cal, is one sales presentation of a tub we might have considered and I have a friend with a low end 4 person tub that is about 3 years old now and he has had minimal problems with it.
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Okay, here's the latest. In an effort to either prove or disprove whether or not my spa is what it's supposed to be and to get an impartial opinion on the blistering, I hired an independant spa technician to assess the blistering in my spa, and if in fact it is the type which is covered by the 10 year warranty.
As it turns out, the spa was misrepresented to me by the salesperson and on the sales receipt. Unfortunately for me, the dealer I purchased it from is now out of business. >:(
We thought we had the "Quarite/ Acrylic Plus" shell because the salesperson told us it had a 10 year warranty and he checked the appropriate box on the sales receipt accordingly.
It appears we were really ripped off. The serial numbers and name plates were also removed from the spa which also made it very difficult to determine which model the spa was.
Instead of a 10 year warranty, it actually only had a 5 year warranty.
Nevertheless, the spa has still developed the (13) blisters which doesn't speak well for the Cal Spas product.
The same tech. who evaluated the blistering has offered to repair the blisters for less than $200.
Although this is not the result I was hoping for, and it's certainly upsetting finding out you've been ripped off and you don't have what you think you do.
I still think this speaks poorly of Cal Spas, that unscrupulous dealers rep. their product, warranty and service and they could care less.
This also doesn't change the reprehensible customer service I received from Cal Spas. The "customer is always wrong" attitude purveyed by both of the customer service reps. I dealt with was completely unacceptable.
If I had not initiated the independant review of my spa by an impartial tech. myself, I would have never got this issue off dead center, and I would probably be filing suit in small
claims against Cal Spas.
Hopefully after my spa is repaired next week, I'll be able to get several more years of use out of it.
Rest assured that when it does finally fail, I will NOT be replacing it with another Cal Spas product. And, I will certainly do a lot more checking before and during my purchase next time!
Thanks for all of your support and I will continue to monitor the forum as I do find lots of valuable information here.
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I'm sorry you were deceived!
I would like to thank you for posting your trials and tribulations! If it helps one person stay clear of this company, then it has been worthwhile!
Good luck! I hope your repairs go quickly, and that you get a few more years of enjoyment!
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Thats very narrow minded of you Yor. In a few years "Cal Spa" will probably have changed owners again and they will be new and improved AGAIN.
To rule them out at this point is unfair.
:P
Boy is it hard to type "tongue in cheek"
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TBoy is it hard to type "tongue in cheek"
that's why I wear a bib.
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Rest assured that when it does finally fail, I will NOT be replacing it with another Cal Spas product.
This is such a huge puzzler to me, because I think your response is perfectly normal. You also would most likely not let a friend or relative buy the product if you could help it. So why are they still in biz!!!??? It's beyond me: if I mess up in the least little way I fear for the future sales I might lose from one customer. They do mass rip-offs and still keep pumping 'em out.
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Hi Yorag:
Sorry (again) to hear about what happened. I'm at a conference in Keystone Colorado (hacked into a wireless network in the conference hall) and won't be back in Beach Town 'till Sunday.
Wouldn't you know that the inn I'm staying at in Keysone has 3 tubs and yup -- you guessed it -- each one is a Calspa! Looked for blisters but didn't see any.
Anyway, sorry about what happened. It sounds like you have a fix. Maybe you could approach Calspa about paying for the fix (given your documentation) if you agree to stop pursuing them? (personally, at this point, my satisfaction would not have a price)
Good luck!
Drewski
:-/
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It's unfortunate but most spa manufacturers are not mainstream common knowledge to the general public. Those of us in this industry know the brands and major manufacturers either through competitive shopping, or from looking at other brands to sell. I have to admit that before I started in this industry about 3 yrs ago the only name I knew in the spa industry was Jacuzzi, I had no idea who marquis, Dimension One, Hot Spring, caldera, Artesian, beachcomber, etc...were. And as long as Cal Spas sells on the WOW factor, and advertises on popular shows such as Monster House, Extreme Home Makeover, etc...the public is going to know their name, and see all the "cool" bells and whistles they offer. It's this emotion that makes us want to have a hot tub.
It's funny that many consumers compare our industry to the auto industry, but in reality they aren't even close to being similar. EVERYONE knows who/what the major automobile companies are, but I'd be willing to bet that a good 75% of the population wouldn't be able to name a hot tub manufacturer OTHER then Jacuzzi.
It's really a shame that there are more companies like Cal Spas in our industry who are only concerned with making a profit then there are companies like Watkins, marquis, and Dimension One (to name a few)who actually care about their customers and the quality of their product.
I always tell customers who've had a bad experience with another dealer that it makes all of us look bad in this industry. If more dealers actually cared about their customers they'd be even more successful in the long run. One bad customer experience does more damage then 20 customers who've had excelent experiences.
Just my 2 cents,
Jason,
Store manager for a D-1 & Caldera Dealer
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So why are they still in biz!!!
Well Chas, I think it's purely a volume thing. It's apparent they are not concerned about referral business, customer service or customer retention.
With that in mind, their goal must be to sell (1) spa to as many people as possible. If you sell that kind of volume, whether it's through heavy media advertising or high pressure sales, who cares if you tick off every one of those customers. I'd venture to say that most knowlegeable and reputable spa dealers would not carry the Cal Spas line, simply because they know the history. Those that do carry Cal Spas are probably similar to the one I purchased mine from, just in it for the short term and just for the money.
And, as poolboy mentioned, unfortunately most people don't know who's who in the spa business like in the automobile world, and sadly, those are the ones that will fall prey to the Cal Spas marketing glitz.
Maybe you could approach Calspa about paying for the fix
At this point, I'd rather not have anything more to do with Cal Spas or their discourteous customer service personnel.
It's not worth the aggravation or time to me.
If they were a stand-up reputable company they would have offered to share in the cost of the repairs, and perhaps salvaged a future customer or referral. It's very clear this isn't their philosophy nor their priority.
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It's funny that many consumers compare our industry to the auto industry, but in reality they aren't even close to being similar. EVERYONE knows who/what the major automobile companies are, but I'd be willing to bet that a good 75% of the population wouldn't be able to name a hot tub manufacturer OTHER then Jacuzzi.
Jason,
Store manager for a D-1 & Caldera Dealer
Jason you nailed it...that is what I have been trying to say when ever autos and spas get mentioned....they are not close.....I think most of us have ridden in automobiles since we were young...we are familiar with how a car works and most of us have an idea about the reputation of several different brands of autos...but spas are something most people are not familiar with and that is why I think so many have so much trouble in feeling comfortable about their purchase....I know this nothing do with the Cal Spa issue....sorry..... :-[
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Jason,
You nailed the issue right on the head! That is why this forum is SO important. It is through primarily this forum that I was able to establish who the quality/reputable manufacturers were. It is thanks to people like you, hottubman, Steve, Chaos etc that I have been able to learn so much and get a handle on what features are important etc. If only every dealer etc referred their customers to a source like this so that they could get properly educated.
Zoo
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Thanks for the kind words, from all of us. As professionals in this industry we often don't hear enough praise when everything is going great and the customers are happy with their product. In the short 3 years I've been working in the pool & spa biz I've really grown to love and enjoy it. No 2 days are alike, and I always learn something new everyday. This is definilty not a career path I'd envisioned myself taking when i graduated college, but I also feel very fortunate for the opportunities it has provided me with.
It's customers/shoppers like you that make it all worth while, and makes us all realize that we truly are making a difference!!
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Thanks for the kind words, from all of us. As professionals in this industry we often don't hear enough praise when everything is going great and the customers are happy with their product. In the short 3 years I've been working in the pool & spa biz I've really grown to love and enjoy it. No 2 days are alike, and I always learn something new everyday. This is definilty not a career path I'd envisioned myself taking when i graduated college, but I also feel very fortunate for the opportunities it has provided me with.
It's customers/shoppers like you that make it all worth while, and makes us all realize that we truly are making a difference!!
OK, you got your kudos, gave the acceptance speech, now get back to work and sell a spa!! ;) ;)
(sorry, it's that store owner syndrome that keeps me awake at night and crabby all of the time.) 8)
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You don;t have to appoligize, as a store manager I get the same way from time to time, just not nearly as much as my boss ;D
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OK, you got your kudos, gave the acceptance speech, now get back to work and sell a spa!! ;) ;)
(sorry, it's that store owner syndrome that keeps me awake at night and crabby all of the time.) 8)
Shouldn't you working on the marketing/business plan or somethin'? ;)
Jason;
He's just bitter that we got mentioned along with Chas & Steve. All Stu got was the etc.... 8)
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Shouldn't you working on the marketing/business plan or somethin'? ;)
Jason;
He's just bitter that we got mentioned along with Chas & Steve. All Stu got was the etc.... 8)
Actually, I was doing a marketing plan and read Jasons post and got grouchy because he wasn't working for me! :D
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You guys hijacked my thread! :-/
But I'll overlook it this time since you all were so supportive during my tribulations with Cal Spas.
I am glad I found this site, how else could I have found so many people to commiserate with me.
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Hi Yorag,
At the very least I am happy that you will have an operational spa again. If you can get at least 3-5 more years out of it then you can buy a different brand next time if you wish.
Get back in the water!
Zoo
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The latest in my ongoing legacy concerns a recent response that Cal Spas posted on Ripoff reports.com. I thought I put the issue to rest with my last post on that site when I discovered that I didn't have the spa with the 10 year warranty.
These people clearly aren't firing on all cylinders.
For continued entertainment, please read:
[link]http://ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff114301.htm[/link]
On the positive side, my spa blisters are being repaired and hopefully the spa will be back in use soon. Unfortunately I am having to pay for the repairs :'(
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Yeah - but other than that ...
By the way, as I was printing out a copy of the Rip-Off report to frame and post on my wall the spell-checker went nuts.....
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Yes, it appears that the Cal Spa CSR is definitely spelling challenged...... ::)
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Further to this fiasco, I am still waiting for the Cal Spas "authorized service representative" to finish repairing all of the blisters in my shell. Of course I am paying for this now. It seems he's not having any luck getting the right materials from Cal Spas to repair the blisters. The repair kits that they have been sending him are supposed to repair about 10 blisters and cost about $100 each. He has repaired 2 blisters so far and used 2 kits. At this pace he will need 4 more kits to finish my spa. When it's all said and done, this will likely cost me $1,200 or more. As a result my spa has now been empty for over 2 months and I have 2 of the blisters repaired. At this rate, maybe by next Christmas I'll be able to use it again. :-/
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Why not post the phone number and the name of the person you are talking to on this post? Then request that everyone that reads it call that number and let them know that they not only have seen the post, but that it is of concern to them and their friends.
This way Cal Spas can see what this posting is doing to them, and if they care about it, maybe they will help resolve this issue.
Your post did make me not considure purchasing a Cal Spa, and I had called and told them that.
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Why not post the phone number and the name of the person you are talking to on this post?
I don't think it's necessary to post names and phone numbers. That information is available if you have read the entire post and followed the links to the Ripoffreport.com web site.
[link]http://ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff114301.htm[/link]
Believe me, Cal Spas could care less about my plight, that is clearly evident by the manner in which they have responded.
The purpose of this post was simply to educate people about how Cal Spas handles warranty issues when one of their "dealers" is no longer in the picture.
I think the following quotes from others pretty much say it all:
I'm sorry to say that I still get service calls from CS owners who can't get warranty work because they simply chose the wrong colored shell or bought a spa off the floor, or got a discount, or added a pump, or bought on a Tuesday or other things.
and:
Please with all do respect, tell me why Cal Spas will set up anybody and everybody including car dealerships to sell their spas.
and:
You'll have a hard time convincing me that Cal Spas has ressurected the standards they have for dealers.
Although my issue was caused by either a misinformed or deceptive dealer, the bottom line is Cal Spas was NOT willing to stand behind their product.
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So Yorag,
In your battle did you find other sites with other consumer info on cal?
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Only this site:
[link]http://www.poolsearch.com/forum/list.php?f=8[/link]
But I found it extemely hard to use as the posts don't move to the top when new information is posted. You have to do a search by the topic to find the related posts. :-/
Do you know of others? ;)
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What Yorag says he want's for Christmas is...
....my dam* Cal Spa fixed. >:(
The wonderful, oh so helpful factory in Pomona is now jerking their authorized service tech. all around about the acrylic repair kits. It seems the kits cost $100 each and are supposed to repair about 10 blisters. Tech. got 2 kits thinking that would be plenty for my dozen blisters..well guess what...2 kits gone and only 2 blisters patched. :-/
At this rate it's going to cost me $1500 to repair all of the f'n blisters. I'm not even sure the spa is worth that....
The tech. is looking for another source for the acrylic patch kits.
If any of you have any ideas on this, please feel free to share them.
It's been almost 3 months that I have not been able to use my spa. :'(
Maybe some of the CalSpa dealers on this forum can let the factory know of the bad press they are getting here and they will "step up"! ;) 8)
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Well I just looked al www.calspassuck.com is still available. WIth the right meta data it will come up in search engines.
Just a thought, this stuff works some times.
Jonathan
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Well I just looked al www.calspassuck.com is still available. WIth the right meta data it will come up in search engines.
Just a thought, this stuff works some times.
Jonathan
Yes it does! Once I paid $35 to get the name nextelsucks.com and guess what? They fixed my billing issues and seem to give us special attention since!
Not a bad idea although I don't know the legalities of it all and would check that out first....
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Hey Stuart,
It worked for you! I'd rather have Cal Spas pay money to an attorney to write me a letter telling me to stop than do nothing at all.
It's all about getting back at them now!
Jonathan
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Hey Stuart,
It worked for you! I'd rather have Cal Spas pay money to an attorney to write me a letter telling me to stop than do nothing at all.
It's all about getting back at them now!
Jonathan
good point....
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I'll put up the $35 if you will set up the site.
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I'll put up the $35 if you will set up the site.
Like I have time to set up another website!
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Had to dig back several pages to find my post, but here is the latest in my ongoing saga with Cal Spas.
The tech has just finished repairing the blisters. The total came to $920. The original estimate was about $200, however Cal Spas sent him (2) Acrylic Patch Kits that were supposed to cover about 10 blisters each.
Each kit was barely enough to cover 1 blister and they were the wrong color. The tech. had to contact the Acrylic manufacturer to find out why Cal Spas sent him the wrong kits and then send more patch material, which was white.
So now I have a rainbow of colored patches in my black spa which is really not a big deal. I haven't had a chance to fill the spa yet, but I hope to soon. It's been nearly 4 months now that it has been empty, I hope it will still work.
Per the Cal Spas service reps. request, I have sent them more photos of the blisters, before during and after the repairs along with the invoice for the repairs. They have indicated that they will review the matter in their warranty department. I'm hoping that they will step up to the plate here and do something other than bash their customers.
Keeping my fingers crossed and I will update as soon as I hear anything.
Thanks for your continued support!
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I would love to see pics of this tub after repair but before filling!!
I have done a few repairs with simple 'bondo,' simply to give the customer a smooth walking surface. Obviously there was no attempt to match colors, so the patch - while smooth and level with the surface - was clearly visible, but it did the job and had no recurrance over a period of many years.
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I have a bevy of digital pics. of the repairs, but no place to host them. I'd be happy to email them directly to you if you'd like to see them.
I told the tech. that color was not a big issue, but I was really surprised about the crap Cal Spas sent him initially and what they charged him.
Send me a private message with your email address and I'll forward anyone interested some pics.
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I am really sorry to hear about your Cal Spa problem. It does seem as Cal Spas is no different than when Chuck owned the company.
As a spa dealer for over 20 years, I feel your pain. Year in, year out, same ole Cal.
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Well, after several long months without the use of my tub, I finally filled it up on Saturday and used it Saturday night. ::) Took about 6 hrs. to heat from 59 to 100, which wasn't too bad.
Cal Spas has finally agreed to pay for half of the repairs, which amounts to $460.
Hopefully I can get a few more years of use out of the spa before it completely falls apart. Then I'll be back here trying to figure out what to purchase next. :)
Thanks for your continued support throughout this entire epic saga. ;)
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Cal Spas has finally agreed to pay for half of the repairs, which amounts to $460.
Hopefully I can get a few more years of use out of the spa before it completely falls apart.
Sometimes perseverance pays off.
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Hopefully there wont be a sequel to this book. ;D
r100rs