Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: wmccall on January 09, 2005, 10:04:42 am
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This thread is clearly not hot tub related, but its about the day to day use of the forum. So feel free.
I did delete the entire thread "off topic" and locked it. I thought the message I left behind made clear my reasons why, but didn't leave room for comment.
First of all, let me say, had the head moderator gotten to it, he would have done the same thing, so it was going to happen anyway.
I don't have much problem with off topic posts and have been known to steer subjects that way. Some of these off topic posts are endearing in a way and help define some of the personalites I enjoy conversing with here. However, this thread quickly was headed into a war debate. I participate in a lot of forums on the internet related to important topics to me and on almost everyone you can't post a message with out someone Blaming Bush, the liberals, the right or left wing, or the bible thumpers. It has ruined so many good forums, I didn't want to see it here.
I put what I thought was an impartial stop to it. Again, the head moderator would have just killed the entire thread without explanation.
I hope nobody thinks I did anything to Chas to reset his post count to zero thinking I was jealous of his post count. I did just the other day make a joke that "That will cost you 100 posts"
We are clearly, at least if your believe the internet, a country divided, with our Canadian friends having their opinions too. I really don't want to see that kind of debate here.
Ok, let me have it, I can take it.
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I reset my own count. I wanted Bill to have at least one thing better than me...
Life is very busy right now, so I'll be taking a little break.
You know life: that other thing you do besides posting here?
;) ;)
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For me, it might be a place to escape life for a while. Dinner is on me the next time I find myself in Socal.
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Just don't forget...you are my favorite Southern California HotSprings Dealer!!! :-*
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Terminator,
The two topics in any social setting (which this board is) that are the most personal and, as a result of being the most personal, are the most volatile are politics and religion. I was not privvy to the deleted post and don't care to be except for the fact that it was posted by Chas whose opinions and philosophies I greatly respect. So, Terminator, if this post was either political and/or religious in nature, I applaud your actions.....and keep up the good work.
As an aside, I am a founding member of our local windsurfing club that was formed in 1987 and continues to be very strong today. One of the reasons we have survived the test of time is the no politics/no religion directive to which we cling.....definitely the best.....at least for us.....8)
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I don't understand why CHas would start a new account. He seemed driven by and proud of his post count.
If he needs to take a break, so be it. Chas, your wit and knowledge will be missed.
As far as the deleted thread, I have to agree with Bill. If this offends anyone, well so be it, that is not my intention.
I was upset in the fall when election opinions were being expressed. I have strong political views myself, none of you will know them. That is the way it should be.
Respectfully;
Jeff
aka HotTubMan
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Bill,
I read some of the comments and don't know when the plug was pulled but I don't have any problems with pulling a plug ... sometimes it needs to be done IMO.
Vinny
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My only suggestion would be to break this forum in sections. Eg. watercare, purchasing, sales & marketing, etc. and have an "open" section for posts not pertaining to spas directly.
That said, I feel Chas had every right to post what he did. It started out to be harmless until it went too far. That's unfortunate and I feel bad for Chas. :-/
Steve
P.S. For the record, you do a fine job Bill even though you clear our post counts once we start getting up there! ;D
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Well as usuall, I seemed to have missed the whole thing.
From the bits I've gathered I agree with your decision to delete the posts Bill.
I've enjoyed the online friendships, as well as the helpfulness of the group. Not to mention the humor!
With all the different spa brands that we beleve in and the different technology that they use, I think we have enough to discuss.
Like windsurfdog, I've been in a cross country ski club for many years and we never discuss religion or politics, not even on the state or city level.
I hope Chas joins us soon. His industry knowlege and humor helps make the board what it is...
Spahappy :D
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If I recall correctly, Chas' initial post wasn't bad at all, it was the subsequent derailment into a political commentary that caused the problem, yes? At some point, I was about to jump into the fray with my comments and then thought better of it (due to the topics of these forums, not because I'm shy about expressing opinions). I have no problem with the moderation on these boards, they have a stated purpose and when we stray too far from those it should be moderated. Thanks for taking the time to do so.
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My only suggestion would be to break this forum in sections. Eg. watercare, purchasing, sales & marketing, etc. and have an "open" section for posts not pertaining to spas directly.
That said, I feel Chas had every right to post what he did. It started out to be harmless until it went too far. That's unfortunate and I feel bad for Chas. :-/
Steve
P.S. For the record, you do a fine job Bill even though you clear our post counts once we start getting up there! ;D
I wasn't around for this and don't really know what happened but guessing as much as I can I would probably agree with Steve all the way.
I think that Chas is a viable part of this forum and we would lose a wealth of knowledge, humor, experience and class without one of our greatest ambassadors posting here on a daily basis...
If anyone has earned the right to be given amnesty over a situation gone awry it would be Chas, he has probably put more effort forth to help others without regard for personal gain than anyone…
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Dang..... A full fledged scandel and I missed it.
I just want everyone to know that I am now & always have been firmly "on the fence" with regard to religion & politics. ;D
With respect to being "moderated". I must admit that I was a little bothered by the last long speech posted by the supreme moderator( the one that seemed to stay at the top for weeks), which said that we must stay on topic. I believe that there are times when it should be OK for us to deviate and inject our personality and experiences even if they aren't 7.2-7.6.
I realize the primary reason for this site is to offer help to those that are looking for it, but I also come here to interact with fellow industry people and consider it a nice escape from the uptight world that surrounds us.
Thank you for your attention, I shall now be stepping down from my soapbox and returning to the fence.
ps... thanks for giving us a thread to voice on.
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The way I see it, is even though the moderators say to stay on topic, they allow us to veer off a bit as long as it doesn't get too far out of hand.
I equate it to the speed limit. Most cops allow us a few MPH over the limit before we get stopped, but the have the right to enforce at 1 mph over if they choose.
I also read a few unmoderated newsgroups, which are about 80% flame wars and off topic.
That said, I missed the controversy, and don't care to know what the fuss was all about.
Brewman
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I missed all the "fun" 'cause of our blackout - though I support the result. well done Bill - thanks.
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Not sure if this is just a thing with you guys in America, but in the UK we believe in freedom of speech. I belong to numerous forums where it is unheard of for a post to be deleted unless it breaks the law or is abusive to somebody.
Certainly over here a board would soon lose it's contributors if it deleted or locked topics just because somebody wanted to bring up a subject such as politics or religion.
Personally, I think the moderator is too quick to act, but then maybe he/she does not mind losing contributors (Chas being a good example). If this is the case, then whatsthebest-hottub.com will probably not survive longer term.
Anyway, my view is, if it is not abusive, does not break the law, then let it go. After all moderators are there to serve the community, not play God.
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Not sure if this is just a thing with you guys in America, but in the UK we believe in freedom of speech. I belong to numerous forums where it is unheard of for a post to be deleted unless it breaks the law or is abusive to somebody.
Certainly over here a board would soon lose it's contributors if it deleted or locked topics just because somebody wanted to bring up a subject such as politics or religion.
Personally, I think the moderator is too quick to act, but then maybe he/she does not mind losing contributors (Chas being a good example). If this is the case, then whatsthebest-hottub.com will probably not survive longer term.
Anyway, my view is, if it is not abusive, does not break the law, then let it go. After all moderators are there to serve the community, not play God.
I hear what yoiu are saying. That said, the political post were breaking the rules of the site. Everyone was supposed to read them and agree to them upon registration. These rules are in place to ensure the content of the board is spa related.
I would suggest it would hurt the board more to lose sponsors, like HS. If the board turned into a political forum, would HS want to run their banner ad anymore? Especially when you consider many beleive this site to be operated by HS. Without sponsorship, there is no board.
I agree with those above that suggest an off topic section would be an asset.
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Not sure if this is just a thing with you guys in America, but in the UK we believe in freedom of speech. I belong to numerous forums where it is unheard of for a post to be deleted unless it breaks the law or is abusive to somebody.
Certainly over here a board would soon lose it's contributors if it deleted or locked topics just because somebody wanted to bring up a subject such as politics or religion.
Personally, I think the moderator is too quick to act, but then maybe he/she does not mind losing contributors (Chas being a good example). If this is the case, then whatsthebest-hottub.com will probably not survive longer term.
Anyway, my view is, if it is not abusive, does not break the law, then let it go. After all moderators are there to serve the community, not play God.
My feeling is if you want to discuss these issues, why come to a spa forum? ??? I would imagine there's countless forums on religion and politics elsewhere.
That being said, I beleive Chas had every right to post his harmless post on a military relative and it was the comments that fllowed that gave the moderator the full right to delete the entire thread. That wasn't Chas' fault.
It's not "playing God", it's stream-lining a forum based on spa information. There's plenty of examples of "off topic" posts that are allowed here and that's fine. I commend the way in which this forum is run as do most that frequent here. Like I said... there's lots of other forums for topics non spa related. If you feel strongly about writing topics that don't pertain to the rules set out when you joined, I suggest those forums might welcome your input there.
Steve
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Not sure if this is just a thing with you guys in America, but in the UK we believe in freedom of speech.
Gerry,
You may have forgotten this but back in the middle of the 18th century, our forefathers had a little tea party for your forefathers in Boston Harbor. It wasn't long after this that the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights and the Constitution of the United States were written with major references to this same freedom of speech to which you refer. Looks like it's finally caught on on the island over there.....and that's a good thing! ;)
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Anyway, my view is, if it is not abusive, does not break the law, then let it go. After all moderators are there to serve the community, not play God.
Play god? I'm not sure if that is silly, arrogant, or dumb. I'll think about that some more. So the board owner should buy another 20gb drive just to make room for your rantings? Maybe you should send him a check.
Of course we believe in freedom of speech, we also have a saying, "A place for everything and everything in its place".
I'll close with having you reread the user agreement you OK'd when you chose your user name and password.
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This Constitutional Freedom Of Speech thing comes up a lot when moderators do their jobs.
The right to free speech protects us from government oppression, it doesn't apply to private forums.'
Brewman
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This Constitutional Freedom Of Speech thing comes up a lot when moderators do their jobs.
The right to free speech protects us from government oppression, it doesn't apply to private forums.'
Brewman
uh-oh... now we're on to government oppression, looks like this thread is headed to a war debate... moderator please ;)
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The thread has served its purpose.