Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: hoss on December 31, 2004, 03:56:50 pm
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Well it has been a fun filled day!! I have been out looking at tubs again... I have know concluded that Artic has the best warranty bar none... 5 years parts and labour and free home service in writing. Does it get any better!!!! if I upgrade to the SE I will get 10 years..Most retailers I have talked to wont match or even get close.. So what does that tell you...
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........That Arctic spas's warranty includes 5 years parts and Labour, and free home service in writing. And that they will upgrade to 10 years if you buy the SE.
If you're implying that the longer warranty means higher quailty, I ain't buying your line.
Hyundai and Kia offer longer warranties on their cars than most, what does that tell you?
Brewman
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I guess they must know something we don't
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Hoss.....
It sounds like a funky Arctic story....and that you seem out spreading the Arctic juice....5 years parts and labor seems to be industry standard for most of the more respected tubs....Marquis for example goes five years on heater no fault....motors......with no pump seal exclusion....7 years no leak....7 years on base on cabinet...and it is transferable...tell me Hoss why do Arctic posts comes in groups of 2 or 3.....consequence it is not
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Well, let's look at that warranty. Oops! We can't, because Arctic doesn't put it on the web site.
;)
They do offer a bit of info about it - not the whole text of the warranty like HotSpring and others, but a bit of info:
SPA SHELL (LIFETIME) :: Arctic Spas warrants the spa shell to the customer against water loss due to structural failure for as long as the customer shall own the spa.
This means that the invisible part of the spa: the fiberglass backing, is guaranteed not to leak. "Lifetime" is usually equal to seven years in a court of law. The surface - the part most likely to have a problem, and the part that would be most noticable - only has a 5 year warranty. HotSpring, (and also Tiger River) has seven.
PLUMBING (5 YEARS*) :: Arctic Spas warrants the factory installed plumbing components - specifically jets, air injectors, glued fittings, plumbing, pipes, filter canisters and hoses - against water loss due to defect in workmanship and materials, to the customer for a period of 5 years, from the original date of purchase.
Most major name-brand tubs offer this. HotSpring, (and also Tiger River) also offer five years on plumbing, parts and labor.
SHELL SURFACE (5 YEARS) :: Arctic Spas warrants the interior surface to the customer against blistering, cracking, peeling, delaminating, to the customer for 5 years from the original date of purchase.
HotSpring offers seven years on this. BTW - HotSpring doesn't use a laminated material, so it would be physically impossible for it to delaminate. Sorry, so far I don't see how you can support your statement that Arctic is the best 'bar none.'
EQUIPMENT & COMPONENTS (5 YEARS*) :: Arctic Spas warrants the spa's equipment - specifically the spa electrical pack & control panel - against malfunction due to defects in the 5 years from the original date of purchase.
OK. But what about: Pumps? Motors? Valves? Lights? Led (if available)? Air controls? Other parts? Hmm. Sounds like they are offereing to let you send in the pack for replacement. Very nice, but not quite 'world class.' Sorry, but I'm still not real impressed.
A Legendary Warranty
Twice the Warranty! The Legend SE series is guaranteed for a full 10 years with a mechanical, plumbing and surface warranty. Parts & Labour included! No other spa can compare! And, of course the shell is guaranteed for life, as with all Arctic Spas!
So, what I'm reading here is that most of their spas only get half the warranty. Does that tell us something? They think you should pay more for the real coverage? HotSpring puts it's best warranty of all their tubs: they believe every single tub they make is that good.
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My knowledge of Artic is non-existent beyond what I see here. However, others are just as good warranty wise. My Dynasty offers a 5 year no-fault warranty. Whatever goes wrong they fix, no charges. Now, did they outline what happens if they come to fix something and you caused the problem? Knowing my dealer, if it was an advertant thing he would probably let me slide, at least once.
One final word, your new here to the forum and you come right in and spout the Artic as the best warranty "bar none" don't be too upset if people question your identity, sincerity, or opinion. I've got a gut feel this board as been the topic of discussion at Artic HQ.
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By the way - Arctic uses as very unique selling system: they simply say their products are the best, and they get a lot of folks who believe it.
So, in the spirit of fun, I thought I would engage in the same thing: I would simply state a 'fact' which I firmly believe, and then it will be settled once and for all.
Ready?
HotSpring tubs are the best in the world. They have absolutely no competition. None are even close. They will fit every yard, be comfortable for every person, last forever, cost less to run than any other spa made - bar none- and they are ETL listed for safety, making them the safest spa made anywhere.
Phew - thank you for letting me do this. It was therapeutic.
;D ;D ;D ::) ::)
PS - if you own another brand of spa, and it has been great for you, I'm sorry. After reading this you will most likely go home and burn it.
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We have a local Arctic dealer that charges 65.00 for every service call whether in warranty or not.
So what does that tell you....
If hoss believes Arctic is best, I wish you well. If you really beleive what you wrote, we will pray for you.
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By the way - Arctic uses as very unique selling system: they simply say their products are the best, and they get a lot of folks who believe it.
So, in the spirit of fun, I thought I would engage in the same thing: I would simply state a 'fact' which I firmly believe, and then it will be settled once and for all.
Ready?
HotSpring tubs are the best in the world. They have absolutely no competition. None are even close. They will fit every yard, be comfortable for every person, last forever, cost less to run than any other spa made - bar none- and they are ETL listed for safety, making them the safest spa made anywhere.
Phew - thank you for letting me do this. It was therapeutic.
;D ;D ;D ::) ::)
PS - if you own another brand of spa, and it has been great for you, I'm sorry. After reading this you will most likely go home and burn it.
It's a good thing this was Chas ranting - and I'm glad it was therapeutic.
Now I have a rant - WHY DO PEOPLE PICK ON HYUNDAI
The reason for the Hyundai and Kia 10 year warranties (Kia is owned by Hyundai) is to prove that they're not the POS's they were from the 80's. It was a strategic move on their part to build confidence in their cars. Apparently the strategy is working - they are selling a lot more cars and JD Powers has them (Hyundai) at a high level of customer satisfaction. Here's another fact - they cost $1,000's less than the competition. Compare it to a Honda or Toyota and you'll be surprised how nice it is. Compare it to a MB and I could buy 2 new ones for the price of 1 MB. And they will both get you from point A to B.
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I can't believe a Canadian Tub causing so much interest,I guess the biggest problem that we all face is dealer support... As I look over different forms it seems no matter what tub we buy... just don't buy at a box store... all depends on the dealer and what the customer me ... and my hard earned money gets out of the tub...
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I can't believe a Canadian Tub causing so much interest,I guess the biggest problem that we all face is dealer support... As I look over different forms it seems no matter what tub we buy... just don't buy at a box store... all depends on the dealer and what the customer me ... and my hard earned money gets out of the tub...
What I can't understand is why Arctic folks travel in pac's....Not that it is bad to hear about Arctic.....but today bam...you have what is it three or four people all of a sudden posting....Again I say this is not consequence....And it goes back around to the same type thing as you started here Hoss.....Arctic is the best in this case you spoke about warranty and true to form when others point out how simply untrue and false your statement is you simply don't address it....I still believe you guys must get together and bow down to some sort of Arctic statue or do some kind of a chant.....
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It's a good thing this was Chas ranting - and I'm glad it was therapeutic.
Now I have a rant - WHY DO PEOPLE PICK ON HYUNDAI
Well, I'm considering a Hyndai Sante Fe. You've made me feel a little better.
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BUY AMERICAN
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I just love it when Chas goes off on a tangent! ;) :P 8)
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hmmmmmmmmmmm, if you believe a warranty is free, I got some swamp land......... and a bridge for sale. warranty included!
Warranting any product costs the manufacturer $'s. The longer the warranty, the more cost to the manufacturer. Sure, a longer warranty is easy to offer, just raise the price of the product to the consummer to cover the costs of honoring the warranty.
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Now I have a rant - WHY DO PEOPLE PICK ON HYUNDAI
The reason for the Hyundai and Kia 10 year warranties (Kia is owned by Hyundai) is to prove that they're not the POS's they were from the 80's. It was a strategic move on their part to build confidence in their cars. Apparently the strategy is working - they are selling a lot more cars and JD Powers has them (Hyundai) at a high level of customer satisfaction. Here's another fact - they cost $1,000's less than the competition. Compare it to a Honda or Toyota and you'll be surprised how nice it is. Compare it to a MB and I could buy 2 new ones for the price of 1 MB. And they will both get you from point A to B.
Vinny the reason Hyundai....went to the longer warranty was it was the only way they could sell there cars....The perception was so low they had to do something to give confidence that their product was good and had turned a corner to step up in quality but with out the longer warranty they would have not made it....They have made great strides in turning things around for themselfs....
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Mendo,
I agree with you 100% - People do feel better with a longer warranty. They really are a decent car for the money and YES having that long warranty definitely swayed my thinking.
Actually I've read that Hyundai is going to be doing away with the 10 year/100,000 mile warranty in I think 2007.
But why quarrel over the best or longest warranty in the hot tub world, remember that all the tubs are inferior to JA's H**** spas, even an Arctic spa - He'll tell anyone that! :D
HAPPY NEW YEAR
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Well, let's look at that warranty. Oops! We can't, because Arctic doesn't put it on the web site!!
Chas, you seem hostile. What gives?
Firstly, our warranty is on our website. It is under Our Spas>Warranty. We can make the whole thing available, but this pretty much sums it up. You can ask any dealer or customer of Arctic, there isn't much outside of abuse or neglect that we don't cover.
This means that the invisible part of the spa: the fiberglass backing, is guaranteed not to leak. "Lifetime" is usually equal to seven years in a court of law. The surface - the part most likely to have a problem, and the part that would be most noticable - only has a 5 year warranty. HotSpring, (and also Tiger River) has seven.
For you lifetime might mean 7 years, for us it means, "as long as you own your spa". Seems simple enough to me.
OK. But what about: Pumps? Motors? Valves? Lights? Led (if available)? Air controls? Other parts? Hmm. Sounds like they are offereing to let you send in the pack for replacement. Very nice, but not quite 'world class.' Sorry, but I'm still not real impressed.
Where exactly do you get that? Our warranty says that it includes parts and labour. I think it is pretty clear that a service technician will fix your spa.
So, what I'm reading here is that most of their spas only get half the warranty. Does that tell us something? They think you should pay more for the real coverage? HotSpring puts it's best warranty of all their tubs: they believe every single tub they make is that good.
No, what your reading is that if someone wants to spend the extra money on a Legend SE, we will warranty it for an additional 5 years. It's an extended warranty.
With all do respect Chas, is it really necessary to bash the warranty of your competition? We take very good care of our customers. I would confidently say that we, as a manufacturer, will go to lengths not often seen in our industry to ensure that customer problems are solved to their satisfaction.
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A couple observations;
First off, Chas is right about the legal aspect of any warranty surpassing 7 years in a court of law. I would like to point out that it is possible to have a warranty that surpasses 7 years. The 7 years only comes into play when there's a legal conflict.
Secondly, I always find it interesting when a company has a warranty that is longer than the time they have been in business. ::)
One question I do have for you JP...Does watercare (or the lack thereof) effect the warranty in any way?
Steve
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A couple observations;
First off, Chas is right about the legal aspect of any warranty surpassing 7 years in a court of law. I would like to point out that it is possible to have a warranty that surpasses 7 years. The 7 years only comes into play when there's a legal conflict.
I wouldn't know. I am not a lawyer. I do know that if the shell failed we would replace the spa. No questions asked.
Secondly, I always find it interesting when a company has a warranty that is longer than the time they have been in business. ::)
We have been in business for just over 10 years.
One question I do have for you JP...Does watercare (or the lack thereof) effect the warranty in any way?
Steve
Watercare can affect the warranty. Two of the most common components to be affected by water chemistry are jets and the heater, both of which we replace for the term of the warranty regardless of water chemistry.
James
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Chas, you seem hostile. What gives?
Sorry, I got a little too 'into' the feel of the thread, and my usual wit turned a bit acidic. :-[ I have no axe to grind with Arctic.
;)
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I'm gona start something here I think, but what value does a "lifetime" shell warranty have? How many shells ever leak? JP, this is no comment on Artic, just lifetime shell warranties.
I would equate a lifetime shell warranty to say a lifetime frame warranty on a car (if such a thing existed). If GM warranted its frame for life, what would that do for me considering that I will replace the following before my life or the cars life is done:
Transmission, suspension, tires, brakes, muffler, battery etc etc or even the car itself.
Back to spas. Before a fiberglass shell will crack/leak, the spa owner will replace (outside of warranty): Pump(s), heater, all jets (1-3 times), cover (possibly 4 times or more), diverter valve(s), fuses, possibly the spapak board and lastly, the tub entirely.
My feeling is that the spa will most likely be replaced before this is ever a concern.
My 2.4 cents
HTM
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Good point, HTM. Suppose they warranty shells as long as they do for that very reason. They aren't as prone to failure as a mechanical component.
Brewman
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Sorry, I got a little too 'into' the feel of the thread, and my usual wit turned a bit acidic. :-[ I have no axe to grind with Arctic.
;)
No Worries Chas. All smiles here.
;D
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Good point, HTM. Suppose they warranty shells as long as they do for that very reason. They aren't as prone to failure as a mechanical component.
Brewman
You got me!
;)
We can warranty a shell for that long, because we simply don't get shell problems. :)
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You got me!
;)
We can warranty a shell for that long, because we simply don't get shell problems. :)
I think you would find that there are few manufacturers that do have issues with their fiberglass shells. The only time a fiberglass boat leaks is if it hits a rock or land, and even then it might not leak.
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Good point, HTM. Suppose they warranty shells as long as they do for that very reason. They aren't as prone to failure as a mechanical component.
Brewman
I think it is something whose absence is concerning more than its presence is assuring.
If the tub steps don't have correct support under them, or the framing isn't done right, then, maybe, you would have increased chances of a shell crack. Many manufacturers avoid this by correct support and engineering. Failing that, you could also just make the shell super thick.
Any company which doesn't offer such a warranty would make me wonder why something as simple as not cracking your "hull" isn't high on the priority list.
In warranty speak "7 years == lifetime guarantee." and it is silly to say you need to be a lawyer to understand that. But having said that, warranties are the minimum of service, as provided by law. Good manufacturers have many stories of going above and beyond the warranty in the service of their tubs and in the fixing of defective parts.
-Ed
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Ya Know,
This entire "lifetime" issue would be resolved if manufacturers simply said "...will be covered by this warantee for as long as the original purchaser owns the spa."
Drewski
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I think anyone that sells a spa manufactured in California will agree, this issue is a bit of a pest. From what I understand, California law precludes a spa manufacturer from warranting a acrylic/(fiberglass, ABS etc) shell any longer than 7 years. There is no such law in Canada.
Some are impressed with the fact that a Canadian manufacturer offers Lifetime. Its just not something that they will ever have to honour.
Unfortunately some customers see the Californian made product in a lesser light because the same warranty is not offerred.
Chas, Poolboy, Chris....your thoughts?
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I think you would find that there are few manufacturers that do have issues with their fiberglass shells. The only time a fiberglass boat leaks is if it hits a rock or land, and even then it might not leak.
Many boats have problems with the fiberglass blistering. The industry is not exactly sure why this occurs but it does happen, improper layup, improper resin/hardner ratios, poor mold preparation???
Water gets in between the gelcoat and the resin impregated fiberglass matting. This then causes the gelcoat to blister. The repair is to grind out the blisters and fill with an epoxy filler and then cover the entire bottom of the boat with 2-4 coats of epoxy resin.
I am not sure if some hot tubs use gel coat or not since mine is a HS spa, and it isn't made of fiberglass! I know the Jacuzzi tub in my bathroom uses gelcoat!
Jonathan
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OK bad example. I do not profess to be a boat expert. My father has owned several fiberglass boats that have been problem free.....
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I think anyone that sells a spa manufactured in California will agree, this issue is a bit of a pest. From what I understand, California law precludes a spa manufacturer from warranting a acrylic/(fiberglass, ABS etc) shell any longer than 7 years. There is no such law in Canada.
Some are impressed with the fact that a Canadian manufacturer offers Lifetime. Its just not something that they will ever have to honour.
Unfortunately some customers see the Californian made product in a lesser light because the same warranty is not offerred.
Chas, Poolboy, Chris....your thoughts?
well since you asked..........
Personally when it comes to warranties, we don;t have a lot of issues with them. Most of the dealers in our area carry tubs that all have similar warranties. It really only comes into play when you compare a "mid-line" or "entry Level" line of spas. I know D-1's "limited Lifetime" warranty on their ultra life shell gets a lot of flack from people on these boards. Truth of the matter is that in all of the years that the dealer I work for has been selling D-1 spas (18+) they've had ONE shell have a problem. And yes, it occured after 7 years. Basically, the customer paid the freight on the spa to have it shipped to D-1's repair place in Ohio. The tub was fixed, and not just the shell, everything else that needed to be fixed was fixed (plumbing, pumps, jets, etc... the spa was sent back to the customer and delievered at no extra charge.
Many will also argue that "because it's made in california it's not engineered for cold weather climates" as well............I think we can all agree that this is a bunch of bunk as well.
Bottom line is that if a company is reputable, and truly believes in its' product and the quality of their product they will go above and beyond to make things right.
I would say it's a pretty safe bet that stuart, chas, HTM, mendo, wetone (to name a few) go above and beyond for their customers everyday. Let's face facts, you don't become an industry wide respected manufacturer or top dealer in your area if you don't stand behind what you create/ sell and if you don't take care of your customers.
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Very well said, poolboy!!
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Your 100% on the mark PoolBoy.
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Basically, the customer paid the freight on the spa to have it shipped to D-1's repair place in Ohio. .
For future reference where is that?
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I know D-1's "limited Lifetime" warranty on their ultra life shell gets a lot of flack from people on these boards.
As one of the folks who has taken issue with D1's 'limited liftime' warranty, I want to clarify.
I don't think that this is a bad warranty at all. In fact, I think it offers an extra bit of coverage that other don't. Instead of ending all warranty coverage at 7 years, you can do what the customer did in the post above: send the spa back to the maker and have it taken care of. D1 has it's main plant in California, and I wasn't aware they also had a facility in Ohio, but that would save a bunch on shipping! That may be more costly than having the repair done in your backyard, or it may be less expensive, but either way you would generally get more: as PoolBoy34 said, when the tub went to the D1 facility it came back completely overhauled. I have seen that with HotSpring as well, the tubs look like new inside and out.
I don't bash the warranty, here or in my showrooms, but I do admit that I have a bit of a problem with the wording. When a customer comes in and says, "D1 has a lifetime warranty on the shell and you only have 7 years, " I am put into the uncomfortable position of having to point out the limitations of the 'lifetime' warranty. Somebody - and it may only be my local dealer - is pointing to the word 'lifetime' and leaving out any explanation about the 'limited' part.
One more time: I think D1 offers a fine warranty. I just wish there was a way they could call it something which doesn't leave the customer thinking it is going to have equal or constant coverage as long as you own the tub.
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Something like "7years full coverage, limited lifetime"?
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they do call it a "Limited Lifetime warranty." And I noticed that now during their training seminars they say "Limited Lifetime Warranty" where as 3 years ago when i first attended the sales training class they just said it was a "Lifetime Warranty." We always state that it's a Limited Lifetime warranty when explaining it to customers.
And Bill I'm sorry but I don't know where exactly the plant is in Ohio off the top of my head, But I'll check through my notes tomorrow when I'm back in the store.
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Also like to add, that when someone comes in and has had talked with a thermospas rep.............that's LOTS of fun!!!