Hot Tub Forum

Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: mhraracing on December 22, 2004, 06:37:42 pm

Title: Frozen lines !!
Post by: mhraracing on December 22, 2004, 06:37:42 pm: Well guys I did everything that everyone suggested at my start up - and its still did not go smooth >:(.

The temp got up to 50 degrees today - so I figured it would be a good day to fire it up.
The heater was on all day with the doors off and I built a tent to retain the heat - so I started to filler up.

Once the water level got to the circ pump jet - I put the hose on the jet to 'prime the pump' and the water filled - but then created pressure - and shot back out - This should have been my clue - but since I am a spa neubie - I didnt realize that when I put flow in there - water should flow all the way around - back into the filter.

So now the tub is sitting there with 58 degree water in it without the heater running - I put my tent back up and turned my ceramic heater back on - hopefully the water in it will thaw the rest of the lines out.

As for other who have posted that Watkins winterizes spas before delivery to cold area.......tell them about mine.

I will check it again in an hour or two - hope nothing burned up in the mean time !!! >:(

Any suggestions ???
Title: Re: Frozen lines !!
Post by: xrdirthead on December 22, 2004, 07:22:34 pm: I think Thursday and Friday are going to be a couple more mild days. Hopefully it will thaw and you'll be soaking soon.
Title: Re: Frozen lines !!
Post by: Chas on December 22, 2004, 07:26:48 pm: Does any water flow through anything at all?
Title: Re: Frozen lines !!
Post by: stuart on December 22, 2004, 09:06:52 pm: I have thawed lines with a blow dryer before, another old trick is to remove the filter and standpipe for the circ pump (they used to be gray), take a hose from your hot water heater in your house, put it in the hole and run some hot water down there. Or remove the cap on the return and do the same thing....
Title: Re: Frozen lines !!
Post by: mhraracing on December 22, 2004, 09:11:57 pm: Quote
Does any water flow through anything at all?

No - well - kinda - I pulled the outlet off the circ pump to make sure it was getting water and to bleed it and water flowed thru. I hooked up a wet dry vac to that hose and could not pull water thru or blow either. The circ pump hose is either frozen or there is another problem. Also - neither one of the main pumps push any water either. They click on and run - but no water out of any of the jets. The only thing that works is the air blower.

I just tried it again - hour ago - and the circ pump line is still blocked....then four dashes - - - - showed up on the main panel - meaning 'high limit thermostat tripped' - I had the portable heater blowing in the pump compartment for some time - so hopefully that was the problem this time ??

I button it all back up for now - I will give it one more shot before I got to bed so......if not tomorrow is supposed to be 50 degree and pouring rain....hopefully that will clear it up....if it is a freezing problem ???

Will the lines thaw by leaving the water in it.....and it being 50 tomorrow ?? or should I drain some water out and try filling it with warm water tomorrow after work ??
Title: Re: Frozen lines !!
Post by: stuart on December 22, 2004, 09:13:31 pm: Are you sure that you just don't have an air lock? Have you tried to bleed the pumps?
Title: Re: Frozen lines !!
Post by: mhraracing on December 22, 2004, 09:15:28 pm: Quote
Are you sure that you just don't have an air lock? Have you tried to bleed the pumps?

I bled the circ pump and water is flows to the pump - but the line going from the circ pump is stopped up.

I figured the circ pump was the right one to work on since it has the heater in-line ?

I was going to work on the main pumps - but ran out of light and warmth.......
Title: Re: Frozen lines !!
Post by: stuart on December 22, 2004, 09:20:49 pm: Quote

I bled the circ pump and water is flows to the pump - but the line going from the circ pump is stopped up.

I figured the circ pump was the right one to work on since it has the heater in-line ?

I was going to work on the main pumps - but ran out of light and warmth.......

I would bleed the main pumps and get them working then they will heat everything else. It's not uncommon to have an air lock in the circ system past the pump while still getting water to the pump itself. HS used to have an air bleed system that connected all the pumps together so I would work on those jet pumps ASAP! It kinda sounds like an airlock....
Title: Re: Frozen lines !!
Post by: mhraracing on December 22, 2004, 09:45:16 pm: Quote
I would bleed the main pumps and get them working then they will heat everything else. It's not uncommon to have an air lock in the circ system past the pump while still getting water to the pump itself. HS used to have an air bleed system that connected all the pumps together so I would work on those jet pumps ASAP! It kinda sounds like an airlock....

Hmmm - really ?? - Even when I cant blow thru or suck water thru the circ pump discharge line with my mouth or a shop vac ??
Title: Re: Frozen lines !!
Post by: stuart on December 22, 2004, 10:33:04 pm: If you can some how get a jet pump going you can heat that spa up enough to kick on!
Title: Re: Frozen lines !!
Post by: mhraracing on December 22, 2004, 10:39:42 pm: Well - holy icicles - I flipped the breakers again - and nothing.....but couldnt see the panel as the cover was covering it...and I hit jet pump 1 by mistake and - it worked !!!! So I let it run for about a minute...then shut it off....the circ pump still wasnt circulating.......then i saw slushy water came thru and started to flow !! - So I hit jet pump 2 - and nothing......

So now I have the circ pump working and the tub already went up 2 degrees in 15 mins....and Jet pump one works.....it did sound like there was some air in it.

I am going to let the circ pump run for an hour or so...then I will go back out to see if 2 will work - if not...then I will bleed it tomorrow after work.

So - I am half way to spatopia.......I just wish it wasnt this hard.... :-/
Title: Re: Frozen lines !!
Post by: stuart on December 22, 2004, 10:49:40 pm: Quote
Well - holy icicles - I flipped the breakers again - and nothing.....but couldnt see the panel as the cover was covering it...and I hit jet pump 1 by mistake and - it worked !!!! So I let it run for about a minute...then shut it off....the circ pump still wasnt circulating.......then i saw slushy water came thru and started to flow !! - So I hit jet pump 2 - and nothing......

So now I have the circ pump working and the tub already went up 2 degrees in 15 mins....and Jet pump one works.....it did sound like there was some air in it.

I am going to let the circ pump run for an hour or so...then I will go back out to see if 2 will work - if not...then I will bleed it tomorrow after work.

So - I am half way to spatopia.......I just wish it wasnt this hard.... :-/

FANTASTIC! :D :D :D 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Frozen lines !!
Post by: mhraracing on December 22, 2004, 10:57:43 pm: Will there be any problem if I cant get pump 2 to work tonight ??? and I leave the spa on all night and tomorrow ?? Does the spa ever turn on and try to run pump 2 during its regular day ?? If it does....will it burn out ?? or overheat ??
Title: Re: Frozen lines !!
Post by: mhraracing on December 22, 2004, 11:28:54 pm: WHOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOO !!! ;D ;D ;D

SHE WORKS !!!!!!!

TOMORROW AT THIS TIME...OK MAYBE EARLIER......I WILL BE IN SPATOPIA......6 PM EST CANT COME SOONER !!!!!

Bottom line was - frozen circ pump and both pumps were frozen and air bound. When I cracked pump 2 to bleed it - slushy water and air came out.

I wish Watkins would winterize them before delivery to the North East.

Bed time.
Title: Re: Frozen lines !!
Post by: stuart on December 23, 2004, 01:08:38 am: I'm glad it all worked out! Anytime you can get one pump running in a situation like this it will help warm the other pumps...
Title: Re: Frozen lines !!
Post by: spahappy on December 23, 2004, 12:34:01 pm: O.K. Please don't think I'm cutting down Sundance I think they make a very good spa. That being said, If this happened to a Coleman all you would have had to do is open up the panel put a in car 900 watt heater in the cabinet. In less then an hour everything would have been thawed.

I'm glad you get to use your tub in time for the holidays. You'll wonder how you ever lived without it.

Cheers to you and to many years of happy tubbing!

Spahappy :D
Title: Re: Frozen lines !!
Post by: tony on December 23, 2004, 12:46:58 pm: I didn't know that Sundance made a Geneva Utopia.

Only joking!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Frozen lines !!
Post by: spahappy on December 23, 2004, 12:51:31 pm: Oops :-[
Title: Re: Frozen lines !!
Post by: stuart on December 23, 2004, 12:54:03 pm: Quote
O.K. Please don't think I'm cutting down Sundance I think they make a very good spa. That being said, If this happened to a Coleman all you would have had to do is open up the panel put a in car 900 watt heater in the cabinet. In less then an hour everything would have been thawed.

I'm glad you get to use your tub in time for the holidays. You'll wonder how you ever lived without it.

Cheers to you and to many years of happy tubbing!

Spahappy :D

Yes that is a benefit to that type of insulation however, I have also found that it has a tendency to freeze quicker and harder with out power and no heat source. Both have their benefits but he was lucky to have enough insulation around the outer plumbing lines to keep the rest of the spa from freezing solid this time! His ice in the lines occurred closer to the control panel where there was less insulation and more thermal recovery space...

Hey did Watkins finally buy Sundance or was it visa verse? ;) 8)
Title: Re: Frozen lines !!
Post by: spahappy on December 23, 2004, 01:01:36 pm: We've had power outages for up to 4 days in the country. 30 below, windchills of minus 60, with blizzard conditions, and we've not lost a spa yet. I'd say that they hold their temps very well.

I can't compare it to the same situation in a fully foamed tub but, in due time I'll get the chance. ::)

Spahappy :D
Title: Re: Frozen lines !!
Post by: stuart on December 23, 2004, 01:38:49 pm: Quote
We've had power outages for up to 4 days in the country. 30 below, windchills of minus 60, with blizzard conditions, and we've not lost a spa yet. I'd say that they hold their temps very well.

I can't compare it to the same situation in a fully foamed tub but, in due time I'll get the chance. ::)

Spahappy :D

Spahappy,
You know that I love you but I have to challenge that! ???

There had to be some preventative measures taken in a situation like that! :o

In almost 16 years of doing this I have never, ever seen a spa that could set in 30 below weather with no power, filled with water and not freeze! There is not a spa made that could hold up to that!

Do you recommend to customers to put a light in the cabinet in event of a power failure or do you have a trick that you could share that the rest of us haven't tried? ??? 8)

BTW, I don't know that you caught my comment before, one of the benefits of a TP spa is that you can get an alternative heat source to heat the cabinet more evenly in event of a power failure but consequentially a full foam spa can typically go a bit longer without freezing the interior plumbing. So again, there are plus's and minus's to either..... 8)
Title: Re: Frozen lines !!
Post by: spahappy on December 23, 2004, 02:17:07 pm: We've had storms with 30 below temps and windchills lower than that. The temps usually don't stay that low for the entire time. However when you start out with those temps and no power to the spa and have to wait 4 days with no electricity and still have not froze the spa, I'd say that's great!

I've been doing this for 10 years and can remember several occasions where we were in contact with the customer without power. Some steps to help were.. Tarp it if it's in the wind, don't keep lifting up the cover to check on it, and if they had a generator put a heater or light in the cabinet. Most rural families have generators but need them for cattle waterer's and for the house back up heat, so using it for the spa was not a priority. We all took a breath and sigh of relief and disbelief when the customer came back on line and the spa wasn't froze.

We had a spa in Grand Forks N.D. during the blizzard, flood and then the horrendous fire,of 1997. That spa was without power for 5 days and lost only 22 degrees. Another in Mott N.D. that was in a unheated spa gazebo without power for 4 days and nighttime temps were 30 below when the power came back on the temp was 43 degrees.

I'm not saying we've never had a spa freeze. there's been times when for some reason the spa tripped the breaker, or the heater went out, and the customer wasn't checking on it, or was out of town for several weeks and came home to an ice rink in their spa.

I don't want to open up a can of f.f. vs t.p.worms here. I'm just telling my experiences with Coleman Spa's in power outages.

Ya know I love you too Stuart! Be nice to me it's Christmas ;)

Spahappy :D
Title: Re: Frozen lines !!
Post by: stuart on December 23, 2004, 02:24:12 pm: Quote
Ya know I love you too Stuart! Be nice to me it's Christmas

Spahappy

Your right, I need to lighten up! Christmas time you elves are way overworked and under paid. (hey weren't elves originally Norwegian?)
Title: Re: Frozen lines !!
Post by: spahappy on December 23, 2004, 02:46:44 pm: Quote

Your right, I need to lighten up! Christmas time you elves are way overworked and under paid. (hey weren't elves originally Norwegian?)

I'm half Norwegian and half Swedish ( don't ask which half )

I do feel like an overworked elf. I have a house full of family and friends about to arrive at any minute. I'm still not quite done with my shopping. It's 18 below zero and I don't want to leave the fireplace store today. I'm at work thinking of everything I still need to do. I ordered a 14 lb. prime rib for tomarrow nights dinner and ended up with a 10 lb prime rib and the grocery store is out till Sunday. My hubby says we'll just get everyone drunk before dinner and they won't notice we're short on meat. LOL

I hope you and everyone else on the forum has a great Christmas! Stay safe and God Bless!

Spahappy :D
Title: Re: Frozen lines !!
Post by: stuart on December 23, 2004, 04:11:39 pm: mhraracing,
Be sure to check for leaks! Sounds like you got to everything before any solid freezing took place but if you start losing water you need to look for plumbing cracks! Don't let this scare you as I doubt it's an issue and it is easily repairable I just wanted to give you a warning....

Let us know how the first soak goes!