Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Andy-VA on October 22, 2004, 08:52:42 pm
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I think my head will explode with all the information I have in my head. These notes are a help to me to keep all the info straight, so forgive me if i ramble. Ive been looking for over a week for a tub and I have eliminated these:
Cal Spas.........Too many neg comments
Thermospas...Couldnt see any more value in it than others and neg comments
Leisure Bay....A brand sold by Recreation Factory Warehouse. The seats sat funny and I didnt get that warm fuzzy freeling.
Vita...............Looked like junk
D1.................The jets looked too flimsy, overpriced, the store was very small and sold christmas trees too. The store didnt give me that "Ill service it after the sale " look
Marquis.........I had been warned about dealers constantly switching brands and this was one of them. He told me he had dropped Calderra a year ago because of problems and now he was proud to carry this .....yada...yada...yada. The pumps seemed underpowered and he didnt have a circ pump.
Ive also eliminated manufacturers secondary brands...Sweetwater, TigerRiver, Calderra, Down East, Everyday and a few others Im missing. I didnt even look at them only because I dont mind spending the $1700 more for the premium brand.
These are my final 4 which Im going to wet test:
Jacuzzi......I sat in this tub and it was very comfy with no water in it. Great sales staff and had carried the line for 8 years. Had the least powerful jets of my final 4, but it was also the least expensive. I only did the scientific "hand in water" test though. This dealer is 4 miles from my house which is a plus. We looked at a
J-355 and was quoted a price of $6399 with all the goodies. I wasnt looking at price until i narrowed it down, but thats what he quoted me b4 i left.
Sundance....Very nice tub. The jets seemed in better positions than some, sat comfy dry. We looked at the Cameo. Had air injection and aroma stuff. Seemed well built. Salesperson talked a bit of price and it seems with further negotions, this tub with goodies could be had for $7300
Master Spa...Impressive tub, variety of jets, neck jets great seating, awesome controls. Most horsepower of any tub looked at. Nice fiber lighting, waterfall effect. Gave you the option of FF or TP although this wont be a deciding factor in which tub I pick. Had 2004 model with TV, stereo that hes trying to unload for $12K. If that was my budget, I woulda bought it. Not sure of the model I looked at, but im sure this wont be the least expensive of the final 4.
Hot Springs...This brand oozed quality. Seemed really well built. The moto massge was crazy cool and you could interchange another plate with it. I listened and felt the Spaudio....beyond cool. It scares me to think that if I bought this tub, I WANT that Spaudio and would end up spending more than I want to. The dealer had carried the brand forever and I felt good about getting any service that I thought I would never use with this brand. If they sold a vista for less and no warranty, I would buy it. The jets werent as powerful as the Master or Sundance, but close. The controls and seating were well thought out.
Thats it, I plan on wet testing these in the next week or so. If there is anything I missed or any advice you have, Im all ears.
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wow! earlier this afternoon i started a post on this same subject but had to leave because of an early dinner date that had crept up on me.
i had just returned from looking for the holy grail spa and had finally reached my saturation point concerning spa shopping.
i to have looked at these spas...... dimension one, marquis, vita, nordic, arctic, tiger river, master,and everyday tubs, marquis' entry leveltubs.
had considered sundance but the local dealer only had one model on the floor. artesian and jacuzzi were to far away for any practical purposes when needing warrenty work.
hadn't even considered hot spgs figuring they were to expensive. so i took the challenge of the vita sales person and drove to the hot spgs dealer for a wet test.
wow!!! what a difference!!!! i felt the same way about hot spgs . they oozed quality in workmanship AND engineering.
wet tested the sovereign and wasn't really looking for a tub with a lounger but this one might do. my needs are for neck, shoulder and foot therapy.
actually i liked everything i saw but several models were out of my budget.
i think my quest for the holy grail might be ending soon.
thanks to the vita sales person for the BEST advice i've gotten from any spa person yet.
andy hope you find your grail also let me know. :)
!
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We wet-tested most of the spas you mentioned when we bought 3 years ago. The most powerful was the Sundance Optima and a close second was the Marquis Euphoria. We bought the Marquis Euphoria primarily because I didn't want the circ pump, we didn't want the footwell hump, and I had to have the cooler running 56 frame motors. The Hot Springs had the appearance of greater quality, but it was the least powerful of our top 5 - plus, it had a circ pump.
We never found the perfect spa, but we were anxious to get into hot water on a regular basis. So far, we've been extremely pleased with our choice.
Success in whatever you decide,
Tim
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Hi Andy,
I'll be interested in finding out your comments after you've had a chance to test-soak your final four. Have fun and Good Luck!!!
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Am surprised you dismissed the Caldera. It is not an entry-level spa.
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Andy...
I wish you the very best in finding the spa that is right for....but I must say that from reading some of your comments....it seems that you might being influenced a great deal by sales people and "their" opinions of things...D-1 is a highly respected tub...as is the Marquis....not that they are the right tub for you...but the reasons you mention like....."look like junk"....didn't give me that warm fuzzy feeling" or the store had that look of no service after the sale" ...or the "proud to carry...yada...yada....yada"....it just strikes me that you are discounting some very good spas ( including 2 of the most commonly respected spas)....for less than sound reasons....Again I sincerely wish you the best in finding the spa that is right for you...it just seems that you have a bit of prejudice in your shopping.....
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nice work Andy. From looking at my Master Spas brochure, Im guessing the tv model you looked at could have been a 750 FST if 7x7, STS if 8x8, or the monster 1050 FST. Dats the one at Camp David.
Owns a Downeast and proud of it.
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andy,
forgot to mention that the hot spgs is the only tub that filters all the water 100% of the time....no filter by-pass when therapy jets are being used. and the water looked like it as compared to some tubs in showrooms that i have experienced. in fact one dealer was looking for a scum line to prove a point about tub color...yuck!
in all my research i missed this feature...no other tub has it ....plus hot spgs have corona discharge ozone generators while some of the others mentioned still use u.v. bulb systems.
as monty did so shall we continue the search for the holy grail !
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andy,
forgot to mention that the hot spgs is the only tub that filters all the water 100% of the time....no filter by-pass when therapy jets are being used. and the water looked like it as compared to some tubs in showrooms that i have experienced. in fact one dealer was looking for a scum line to prove a point about tub color...yuck!
I am grwoing a little tired of hearing about the no filter by-pass. I respect HotSpring for making a fabulously engineered tub. It is reliable and attractive. Like so many "exclusive" features on hot tubs, I wonder "How are the hundreds of thousands of people that don't have this feature surviving?" What is the beneft to the end user of the non-bypass?
Is the water safer? No.
Cleaner? Perhaps, but everyone else has good water too, right?
My Two Cents
HotTubMan
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Hot Springs is not alone in 100% filteration....Marquis also does this.....
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I am grwoing a little tired of hearing about the no filter by-pass. I respect HotSpring for making a fabulously engineered tub. It is reliable and attractive. Like so many "exclusive" features on hot tubs, I wonder "How are the hundreds of thousands of people that don't have this feature surviving?" What is the beneft to the end user of the non-bypass?
Is the water safer? No.
Cleaner? Perhaps, but everyone else has good water too, right?
My Two Cents
HotTubMan
I'm with you HotTubMan,
When it comes to water quality I doubt it makes a big difference if a spa has one or not.
If it did, the majority of spa manufaturers would see the benifits and do the same thing. Very few spas made today have added this technology to their filtration system.
From personal experience it's more important to have a filtration system that catches stuff before it gets to the filter. All Coleman spas have a skimmer basket on top of the filter. It's easy to get to, easy to remove, and easy to clean. these are just some of the things I"ve found in mine... leaves, dirt, grass, toys, bugs, ponytail ties, band-aids, paper cups, bottle labels, olives, ect.
Without this feature you'll be pulling all that type of stuff out of all those filter pleats weekly...
BTW, ever tried to catch an olive in a hottub?
Spahappy
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Well, in the long run it turns out to be a boon for the HS dealer. The customer is going to have anywhere from 3 to 5 filters to maintain, that's a LOT of filter cleaner solution. Since they now have the "micron" filters, which clog even faster, the filters now run about 80 bucks a piece. If you are not into filter maintinence you'll probably be buying new filters every year or sooner. That's 400 dollars worth of filter in the 5 filter model. Personaly, I don't think is't a great idea at all. Enginering, what ever, it's a hot tub. They have gotten better looking in recent years.
My dimes worth.
I am grwoing a little tired of hearing about the no filter by-pass. I respect HotSpring for making a fabulously engineered tub. It is reliable and attractive. Like so many "exclusive" features on hot tubs, I wonder "How are the hundreds of thousands of people that don't have this feature surviving?" What is the beneft to the end user of the non-bypass?
Is the water safer? No.
Cleaner? Perhaps, but everyone else has good water too, right?
My Two Cents
HotTubMan
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Wow. Of your final 4 my advice would be to eliminate Master Spa. I carried them for a few yrs and had lots of reliability issues.
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I also have a couple of pennies to pitch in about the filtering issue. I think the phrase "100 filtration" and "100% no-bypass filtration" are being intermixed. EVERY spa filters 100% of the water....eventually. By the way if you look on Marquis' website you will see that they show the bypass suctions in a diagram of their filter system. They use the phrase "100% of the filtered water..." not really the same thing. Now, having said that and being a Hot Spring dealer I think that with proper water chemistry the number of filters isnt as big an issue as the consumer is lead to believe. Afterall, In the new HS Vista you have 5 filters that are 65sq ft ea for a total of 325 sq ft of filtration. Overkill? I'd say.
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I also have a couple of pennies to pitch in about the filtering issue. I think the phrase "100 filtration" and "100% no-bypass filtration" are being intermixed. EVERY spa filters 100% of the water....eventually. By the way if you look on Marquis' website you will see that they show the bypass suctions in a diagram of their filter system. They use the phrase "100% of the filtered water..." not really the same thing. Now, having said that and being a Hot Spring dealer I think that with proper water chemistry the number of filters isnt as big an issue as the consumer is lead to believe. Afterall, In the new HS Vista you have 5 filters that are 65sq ft ea for a total of 325 sq ft of filtration. Overkill? I'd say.
The intakes on the bottom of the spa can be used for several things; a drain, a bypass or a filter intake. Marquis uses them as a secondary filter intake.
Wow. Of your final 4 my advice would be to eliminate Master Spa. I carried them for a few yrs and had lots of reliability issues.
My seniments exactly! I had a similar experience with Master although Windsurfdog (AKA WindyBob) seems to have had a great experience as an owner of a Master.
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Surprised to see you eliminate Caldera. Caldera is in the top 6 of spa manufacturers,IMHO.
All I can suggest to you at this point is, WET-TEST
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Mendocino,
I assure you I have no prejudice when Im looking for a tub, Im a new tub shopper and can only go by what I see. I will dismiss a tub for a sound reason if I dont feel comfortable with it. I wish I would have had an Artesian dealer closer than Nags Head to check theirs out, but overall im confident in my final 4.
Aztec & Autoplay,
"Eliminate" was not the right word for Caldera. There are 2 reasons why they arent in my final 4. The first is, noone had one on the floor to look at and I didnt want to travel 100 miles to look at one. The second is, I have a copy of Consumer Digest April 2003. They have 3 "Best Buy" categories...Premium, Midrange, and Economy....Caldera isnt on the list. I know Caldera is a good brand from all the positive comments on here, but I didnt want to have to chase one down.
Yokeman,
All of my final 4 have the CD kind, not UV.
Wisoki,
I should have mentioned that was one of my cons about HS. I asked how much the filters were and he said $72. Wow, multiplied by 5 is over $360 in 7 years according to him but it could be more if you arent right on top of the cleaning.
You guys should consider me as an independent tester, I dont know squat about hot tubs and can only base my buying decision on what i see and what i have to spend.
Salesdvl said I should eliminate Master Spas, I cant do that just yet. There are also alot of positive comments about it. Ill keep posting my thoughts and i do appreciate all feedback.
thx.....Andy
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Andy,
I would be very careful about purchasing anything from Recreation Warehouse. I have seen several very negative comments on other web sites regarding this chain store and their lack of customer service as well as their apparent failure to right a wrong for a customer. The complaints that I have read are from consumers all over trhe country and not isolated to any one region at all. When we were researching and shopping to initially buy a hot tub we ventured into a Rec Warehouse as they had newspaper ads with promises of big sales and savings. We left as quickly as possible because we were totally not at ease with the sales rep and the pressure he was trying to use to "buy now while on sale".
Brewski
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Brewski,
Rec Factory Warehouse carried the Leisure bay brand which I allready ruled out.
thx
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Andy,
brewski is correct on Rec Warehouse! If you go to the site I recommended http:// http://ripoffreport.com/ and do a search on their name you'll see what we mean.
Also I think that the dealer did not do a good job with the Marquis as power is not an issue! You should try the SA Reward! Marquis used a circ pump for many years and dropped it because they found they could move more water through the filter, for the same or less power cost without having to add another "system" to the spa with the potential for more components to break. They also use a unique ozone that is a solid state unit and we have not had one failure in almost 2 years (and believe me we sell a lot of them)!
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Andy,
Amen to what Stu baby has said. I have 4 years worth of our ozonators out there and have had just a couple fail. Also, check out the SA models. More powerful jets if that is what you believe that is what you need.
Also, I agree with salesdvl concerning Master spas. Not too many positives there.
Good Luck
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Well, in the long run it turns out to be a boon for the HS dealer. The customer is going to have anywhere from 3 to 5 filters to maintain, that's a LOT of filter cleaner solution.
Not really, since you just pop these into the dishwasher. But even if you want to soak them, the typical bottle makes 5 to 8 gallons, and you can soak more than one filter in a one-gallon batch. Also, the circ pump filter does the bulk of the work - so you may very well only put it into the dishwasher, or soak that one and just rinse the rest. Since they now have the "micron" filters, which clog even faster, the filters now run about 80 bucks a piece.
Well Frank, Sundance has Micron, HotSpring has Tri-X, and they aren't the same. The Micron filters get tossed every three or four months at anywhere from $14 to $25 each. The Tri-X are more than double the square footage of our old style filter, ( around 60 square feet EACH) so they don't tend to clog faster - in fact the opposite tends is true. And they are made of a much more durable media, so they will last years longer. In the long run they should cost you less. If you want, you can always pop one of the regular filters on the circ pump, and have an extra Tri-X filter to rotate in and extend the life of the other filters by a couple of years. Those plain ones still only cost about 24 bucks and should last several years. If you are not into filter maintinence you'll probably be buying new filters every year or sooner.
Not at all. The Tri-X filters should last much longer, and you can simply pop them into your dishwasher and then pop them back into the tub. It's much easier to live with these filters. That's 400 dollars worth of filter in the 5 filter model.
I sell them for a bit less than $60 each ($275 for five), BUT: they will outlast the regular filters by many years. They are standard on the HP models. Yes, many people ask for an upgrade to the Tri-X filters on the EE spas as a deal closer - so in the long run you save money. They are a good design, and I'm glad we have 'em.
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Can't say that the Jacuzzi J-355 is not powerful enough.I have it and many times the jets blow me out of my seat I am 6ft 2 220lbs and the seats are pretty wide and i love it since its getting colder outside.Can't say nothing bad about the other spas but i would not wait too long because winters around the corner.JohnnyT
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Andy, My suggestion to eliminate Master is based on my experence as a dealer with service and reliability issues. I am sure that there are many successful MasterSpa installations. We just didnt have many of them. One example is: the last yr we carried them we ordered 20 tv spas and had 20 failures once they got to customers' homes. We finally had the tech from Master come from Ft. Wayne to look at them. I do not mean to bash but our experience was not good. ( We have since switched to Artesian which has alot more to offer)....shameless plug...sorry
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I had a similar experience with Master although Windsurfdog (AKA WindyBob) seems to have had a great experience as an owner of a Master.
Andy,
stuart, rocket, salesdvl and others have had experiences with Master from the retail side that have shaped their opinions. I would certainly consider their opinions as you search......BUT, if you decide to bypass Master based solely upon their retail oriented opinions, I feel you would be limiting your options unnecessarily. I own an LSX and as stuart has mentioned, I'm EXTREMELY happy with the decision, so far. Mind you, I've only had it in service since 7/11/04 so there are a lot of soaks to go but so far it has been perfect. I wet tested the Hot Springs (at Rec Warehouse, I might add) and as much as I appreciated their quality, the wet test plus the price were not for me. I tried to buy a Cameo from the local dealer and he ended up being such an overpriced jerk to me that I wouldn't buy a rubber duck from him if he were the world's last spa retailer. The LSX is a great spa--if you want my take on it, read the review here at this site. I stand by it wholeheartedly and highly recommend it. My point is this: No matter what you buy, don't limit your options solely upon the opinions you've read in this thread.
8)
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...I have a copy of Consumer Digest April 2003. They have 3 "Best Buy" categories...Premium, Midrange, and Economy....Caldera isnt on the list...
I've yet to find a "Consumer" magazine that didn't have significant biases of their own, and therefore do not put a lot of stock in their opinions. I still find the most useful opinions to come from buyers and owners themselves.
Tim
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I suspect that the only reason Caldera hasnt been in Consumer Digest as a "Best Buy" is simply because Watkins has not bought it...oops... I mean submitted it yet. However I know they are on a mission this yr to push Caldera's position in the market so I would bet that the next time Consumer Digest does hot tubs Caldera will be listed. ( You heard it here first )
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Andy,
I would be very careful about purchasing anything from Recreation Warehouse. I have seen several very negative comments on other web sites regarding this chain store and their lack of customer service as well as their apparent failure to right a wrong for a customer. The complaints that I have read are from consumers all over trhe country and not isolated to any one region at all. When we were researching and shopping to initially buy a hot tub we ventured into a Rec Warehouse as they had newspaper ads with promises of big sales and savings. We left as quickly as possible because we were totally not at ease with the sales rep and the pressure he was trying to use to "buy now while on sale".
Brewski
I agree with Rec Warehouse. We went to our local Rec Warehouse in Macon, GA and I was not impressed at all. It was like going to a car dealership..."What can we do to get you to buy a spa today?". I didn't care what kind of deals they had going, I wasn't buying from them. Very pushy people! My husband did some research on them and they didn't get a good rep about them at all! After a lot of research, we ordered a HS Grandee and hopefully will have it delivered on 6 Nov...I'm so excited!!!!! :-)
GeorgiaPeach
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I agree with Rec Warehouse. We went to our local Rec Warehouse in Macon, GA and I was not impressed at all. It was like going to a car dealership..."What can we do to get you to buy a spa today?". I didn't care what kind of deals they had going, I wasn't buying from them. Very pushy people! My husband did some research on them and they didn't get a good rep about them at all! After a lot of research, we ordered a HS Grandee and hopefully will have it delivered on 6 Nov...I'm so excited!!!!! :-)
GeorgiaPeach
You've made a good choice!!! Here's to many years of happy tubbing!
Spahappy :D
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I decided to chime in here.
I wanted to comment on the Hotspring filter cartridges on the Vista. Yes, the cartridges are going to cost around $300 - $400 dollars to replace because of the Tri-X cartridge. These cartridges should last in upwards of 5 years. I have heard some dealers say 10 years.
However, the cartridges on the Grandee (using the normal cartridges) are going to cost about $150 dollars to replace with a useful life of 2 years.
I think the cartridges lasting 5 years saves the consumer money and agrevation.
Andy himself said they will last 7 years. The normal life of a filter cartridge is 2 years.
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You've made a good choice!!! Here's to many years of happy tubbing!
Spahappy :D
I think I made a good choice too.. :-) And I was very happy with our dealer and am very confident that the service will be good. I'll keep ya posted when it gets in, setup and running... :-)
Georgiapeach
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I agree with Rec Warehouse. We went to our local Rec Warehouse in Macon, GA and I was not impressed at all. It was like going to a car dealership..."What can we do to get you to buy a spa today?". I didn't care what kind of deals they had going, I wasn't buying from them. Very pushy people! My husband did some research on them and they didn't get a good rep about them at all! After a lot of research, we ordered a HS Grandee and hopefully will have it delivered on 6 Nov...I'm so excited!!!!! :-)
GeorgiaPeach
Ahhh.. Macon GA... I miss the cherry blossom festival, eating at Momma's H&H restaurant over by Capricorn records, going to the Green Jacket by carriage ride, the 1842 Inn and the smell of the trees blooming in the spring. Most my old haunts are probably gone from there but thanks for making me remember it again!
Congratulations on your spa and hopefully you will get a spatopia blessing from rabbi windybob (AKA WindSurfDog) even if he probably is a Gator fan instead of a Bulldog fan! You made a great choice!
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Ahhh.. Macon GA... I miss the cherry blossom festival, eating at Momma's H&H restaurant over by Capricorn records, going to the Green Jacket by carriage ride, the 1842 Inn and the smell of the trees blooming in the spring. Most my old haunts are probably gone from there but thanks for making me remember it again!
Congratulations on your spa and hopefully you will get a spatopia blessing from rabbi windybob (AKA WindSurfDog) even if he probably is a Gator fan instead of a Bulldog fan! You made a great choice!
I don't venture to Macon too often, but don't live far from there; in Warner Robins. My hubby is in the Air Force. I have enjoyed the Cherry Blossom Festivals though; beautiful! Glad I could bring some happy memories for you... :-)
Thanks for the Congrats....I'm sure once we're setup, I'll have questions though, especially since the hubby is away right now and the spa will be delivered and I'll be on own taking care of it for a bit. I just hope it's not difficult!
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I used to tell people the same thing about putting the filters in the dish washer, until I found out how damaging it is ti the filters be they unicel, pleatco or any other manufacturer. It is one of the worst thing you can do to your filters. It sure does sound easy during a sales presentation though.
As for soaking more than one filter in a one gallon batch, are your filters flat? I need to have a five gallon bucket 7/10th's full in order to cover the old style Jacuzzi 50 sq. ft. filters. How are you fitting those oversized filters into a one gallon batch?
The Tri-X filter, explain this. It is a tighter weave to filter out smaller particles, right? OK then so how is it that you are getting more water through a smaller area. Square footage means nothing. It means if I cut the filter and spread out the media thats how much area it will cover. It will be able to handle more water for a little longer period of time, but not much.
You sell them for a bit less than 60 bucks a piece? 55 dollars, still $275 FOR SPA FILTERS is rediculous.
It the risk of sounding like the banned one, your manufacturer has one heckuva marketing department!
Not really, since you just pop these into the dishwasher. But even if you want to soak them, the typical bottle makes 5 to 8 gallons, and you can soak more than one filter in a one-gallon batch. Also, the circ pump filter does the bulk of the work - so you may very well only put it into the dishwasher, or soak that one and just rinse the rest.
Well Frank, Sundance has Micron, HotSpring has Tri-X, and they aren't the same. The Micron filters get tossed every three or four months at anywhere from $14 to $25 each. The Tri-X are more than double the square footage of our old style filter, ( around 60 square feet EACH) so they don't tend to clog faster - in fact the opposite tends is true. And they are made of a much more durable media, so they will last years longer. In the long run they should cost you less. If you want, you can always pop one of the regular filters on the circ pump, and have an extra Tri-X filter to rotate in and extend the life of the other filters by a couple of years. Those plain ones still only cost about 24 bucks and should last several years.
Not at all. The Tri-X filters should last much longer, and you can simply pop them into your dishwasher and then pop them back into the tub. It's much easier to live with these filters.
I sell them for a bit less than $60 each ($275 for five), BUT: they will outlast the regular filters by many years. They are standard on the HP models. Yes, many people ask for an upgrade to the Tri-X filters on the EE spas as a deal closer - so in the long run you save money. They are a good design, and I'm glad we have 'em.
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I don't venture to Macon too often, but don't live far from there; in Warner Robins. My hubby is in the Air Force. I have enjoyed the Cherry Blossom Festivals though; beautiful! Glad I could bring some happy memories for you... :-)
Thanks for the Congrats....I'm sure once we're setup, I'll have questions though, especially since the hubby is away right now and the spa will be delivered and I'll be on own taking care of it for a bit. I just hope it's not difficult!
I lived on Galahad street, just off Elberta Rd and Carl Vinsion Pkwy in WR for 3 years.
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Wisoki,
Because I am a little bored, I am going to take a stab at answering your questions about the Tri-X cartridge.
Chas,
If I make a mistake, I promise I will never answer another Hotspring question unless you get banned again.
“I used to tell people the same thing about putting the filters in the dish washer, until I found out how damaging it is ti the filters be they unicel, pleatco or any other manufacturer. It is one of the worst thing you can do to your filters. It sure does sound easy during a sales presentation though.”
The pleatco/unicel cartridges use glue to bond the paper media to the plastic. The glue deteriorates in the dishwasher. The Tri-X cartridges require no glue to bond the two pieces together. Hence, they will not deteriorate in the dishwasher.
”The Tri-X filter, explain this. It is a tighter weave to filter out smaller particles, right? OK then so how is it that you are getting more water through a smaller area. Square footage means nothing. It means if I cut the filter and spread out the media thats how much area it will cover. It will be able to handle more water for a little longer period of time, but not much.”
If I am not mistaken the material they are using is made of plastic. This is the reason why it does not affect the flow. The cartridge is also using depth and not just surface area like the 50 square foot cartridge in the Jacuzzi’s you used to sell.
”As for soaking more than one filter in a one gallon batch, are your filters flat? I need to have a five gallon bucket 7/10th's full in order to cover the old style Jacuzzi 50 sq. ft. filters. How are you fitting those oversized filters into a one gallon batch?”
To clean cartridges I just use laundry detergent. Also, if I feel like it, I will also use muriatic acid. You haven’t seen a clean cartridge until you use muriatic acid.
Also, they are not oversized. They are the same size as the 30 square foot cartridges that Hotspring has been using for 10+ years.
”You sell them for a bit less than 60 bucks a piece? 55 dollars, still $275 FOR SPA FILTERS is rediculous.”
Yes they are expensive, but they will last at least twice as long as the normal cartridges.
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Congratulations on your spa and hopefully you will get a spatopia blessing from rabbi windybob (AKA WindSurfDog) even if he probably is a Gator fan instead of a Bulldog fan! You made a great choice!
Congratulations, indeed! And certainly may the goddess of Spatopia bless you with crystal water!
And bubba stu, you have crossed over a very definitive line for a Seminole fan! Please don't make me have to talk to the goddess about you...... ;D ;D
After all, FSU did a great job of "raising" Mark Richt for the 'Dawgs!
8)
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I lived on Galahad street just of Elberta Rd and Carl Vinsion Pkwy in WR for 3 years.
Know the area... :-) I live off Houston Lake Rd. It's changed so much since we were first stationed here in the mid 80's. If it's been awhile since you've been here, you wouldn't recognize it anymore!
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Congratulations, indeed! And certainly may the goddess of Spatopia bless you with crystal water!
And bubba stu, you have crossed over a very definitive line for a Seminole fan! Please don't make me have to talk to the goddess about you...... ;D ;D
After all, FSU did a great job of "raising" Mark Richt for the 'Dawgs!
8)
Thank you so very much!!!!!!!! I'll need all the blessings I can get... :-)
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Congratulations, indeed! And certainly may the goddess of Spatopia bless you with crystal water!
And bubba stu, you have crossed over a very definitive line for a Seminole fan! Please don't make me have to talk to the goddess about you...... ;D ;D
After all, FSU did a great job of "raising" Mark Richt for the 'Dawgs!
8)
You have to be a happy guy over the last few years. Every team in FL went from being a laughing stock to being contenders! What up with this Hockey team? Do you guys know what ice is? (uh oh, I just realized I woke wmccall up with a sports comment and hockey at that!) :o 8)
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You have to be a happy guy over the last few years. Every team in FL went from being a laughing stock to being contenders! What up with this Hockey team? Do you guys know what ice is? (uh oh, I just realized I woke wmccall up with a sports comment and hockey at that!) :o 8)
Yeah, the universities in FL sure have had success lately on the gridiron and we like beating up on each other as well. And we tried hockey but we're not as religious as those guys up north--why else are they able to walk on water? ::)
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Chris H, What a great piece of writing. I don't think anyone could have explained it better.
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A dishwasher where dishes go..
A spa filter where, dirt, hair. skin cells, urine, feces, pubic hair, go.
Not in my dishwasher!
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Well, in the long run it turns out to be a boon for the HS dealer. The customer is going to have anywhere from 3 to 5 filters to maintain, that's a LOT of filter cleaner solution. Since they now have the "micron" filters, which clog even faster, the filters now run about 80 bucks a piece.
Huh? (the question, not the user).
The Hot Springs Tri-X filters are something like $60-$80 a piece, are rated to last at least 7 years, and are cleaned by running them through your dishwasher. What are you talking about ???
-Ed
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A spa filter where... urine, feces,... go.
:o
There is another water containing vessel in your home where these would more appropriately "go"...
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A dishwasher where dishes go..
A spa filter where, dirt, hair. skin cells, urine, feces, pubic hair, go.
Not in my dishwasher!
wow. It's amazing how when people offer a feature that isn't on someone's tub, somebody has to get all up in arms over it.
If your dishwasher is leaving particles (like, say... rotten food) behind you need to get a new dishwasher. However, since you are too busy "populating" your tub, you may not notice! :P
Here is a thought for ya.. every time you flush a toiled hundreds of thousands of molecules of fecal material are spewed into your bathroom. Where do they land? Most notably on your exposed toothbrushes.
My dishwasher has a sanitize setting on it, I wonder if that would make it too hot and would melt the plastic-like Tri-X filters. I am keeping the original filters until they wear out then upgrading. One bottle of the filter cleaner, concentrated, should last around a year, and that's conservative. I don't know where the "filter maintenance stuff" is coming from, but suspect it is just FUD.
Chas was right, though, the one on the circulation pump gets *significantly* dirtier than the others. Maybe that one will be an early tri-x filter purchase.
-Ed
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:o
There is another water containing vessel in your home where these would more appropriately "go"...
hummmm is that the one where...If I leave its lid up...than I am in trouble.... ;)
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Hot Springs...This brand oozed quality. Seemed really well built. The moto massge was crazy cool and you could interchange another plate with it. I listened and felt the Spaudio....beyond cool.
Andy,
I own a grandee and it is a terrific tub. I won't get into another debate over jet power. Suffice it to say with all jets on full my back gets a real workout and my wife can't sit in a single seat without throttling down a jet.
Wet test based on YOUR preferences, and NOT what the salesguy is telling you your preference SHOULD be based on his tub's strengths.
Hot Springs does ooze quality, and if you buy one the odds are that you will never regret it. Having said that, though, I would *not* purchase the spa audio.
YES it is more stable and (IMO) sounds better than the little pop-up speakers. Those pop-ups look like they are one "drunk elbow" away from being cracked off the tub and, to me, sound tinny. Frankly, some here also feel the spa audio is a little tinny. Take out that classical music demo CD and put in some bass thumpin' CDs and see what happens.
We didn't like the Spa Audio for a few reasons.
1) It made my wife feel nausious. Granted, that's probably a minority feeling, but the vibration in the water is not for everyone. It was, in her description, a bit like feeling motion-sick.
2) It vibrates the shell. This, over time, is annoying on your back and would make me paranoid about leaks. Let's just holes in the shell, put in jets, glue them, and then vibrate the shell as much as possible!
3) There price/performance is NOT there. Purchase a good set of marine speakers, a CD player or other device, and a water-proof remote (or a regular remote in a ziplock bag) and get a good audio experience that way.
When my wife and I get in the tub we get in for LONG periods of time. Instead of 20-40 minutes a day we lately have been getting in for 2-3 hours 2 or 3 times a week, mostly at night before bed. Sometimes I take a TV outside and we watch Law and Order SVU. 8) Sometimes we just talk. Sometimes we listen to music. I don't think we would "live" in the tub as much with the Spa Audio.
The Vista is a great tub, but take a good look at the Grandee. It is pure bliss. When not full yoccupied you can fashion a lounger out of any of the corner seats and when you have alot of company the lack of lounger makes it easier to fit more people.
-Ed
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I would like to invite Mariska Hargatay over and get her opinion on the Spa Audio :o
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Ed,
I think Hotsprings is a great spa. I just have a problem with spa filters in my dishwasher. After your very imformative toilet flushing story I'm moving all the (new) toothebrushes to the freezer.
Georgiapeach,
With three teenagers I've picked up a few busy mom tricks.
I encourage people to by an extra filter or filters, right away. When it's time to clean your filter/filters, replace with the clean one/ones. I take the dirty one into the shower with me and use my shower wand to get into the pleets. When I'm done I spray the filter with diluted clorax water to prohibit mold growth, put in a sunny place and dry completely.
Welcome to the forum, This bunch will be a source of knowlege and support for you as a new spa owner! And it's nice to have another girl here!
Spahappy :D
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Weather it's polyester or plastic, what difference does that make. When particulate mater collects on the media, it IS going to reduce flow because it is clogged. All filters use depth and length, this is not an innovation by hot spring. So how does the plastic filter hold up to muriatic acid? This should be interesting. Since it's a relativly new filter design, I will with hold further comment until I hear from some owners. Also Chas said Not really, since you just pop these into the dishwasher. But even if you want to soak them, the typical bottle makes 5 to 8 gallons, and you can soak more than one filter in a one-gallon batch. Also, the circ pump filter does the bulk of the work - so you may very well only put it into the dishwasher, or soak that one and just rinse the rest.
Wisoki,
Because I am a little bored, I am going to take a stab at answering your questions about the Tri-X cartridge.
If I am not mistaken the material they are using is made of plastic. This is the reason why it does not affect the flow. The cartridge is also using depth and not just surface area like the 50 square foot cartridge in the Jacuzzi’s you used to sell.
To clean cartridges I just use laundry detergent. Also, if I feel like it, I will also use muriatic acid. You haven’t seen a clean cartridge until you use muriatic acid.
Also, they are not oversized. They are the same size as the 30 square foot cartridges that Hotspring has been using for 10+ years.
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Quote from spahappy about his spa cartridges: ‘I take the dirty one into the shower with me…’
Do you use it as your washcloth? ;D
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Rather than a washcloth, I bet it would make a great Pumis stone. ;D
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“Weather it's polyester or plastic, what difference does that make.”
It makes a difference when cleaning. Because it is made of these materials you now can use the dishwasher to clean these cartridges because of the material that Hotspring uses. No glue is used in these cartridges, and this is the reason pleatco/unicel cartridges cannot be put in the dishwasher.
“So how does the plastic filter hold up to muriatic acid? This should be interesting.”
I was commenting on regular filter cartridges not the Tri-X cartridges. Sorry about that.
Hayward recommends for their DE filters a three step system:
Step 1: Soak in laundry detergent then rinse
Step 2: Soak in Muriatic Acid then rinse
Step 3: Soak in Sodium Bi-Carb (Total Alkalinity Powder) then rinse
I use this system to clean my regular ordinary cartridges.
It hasn’t affected these cartridges, and I don’t think the muriatic acid would hurt the Tri-X cartridge because I have been soaking Hayward EC-40 filters/Cartridge filters in that for 20+ years. That is my opinion, not a fact.
“When particulate mater collects on the media, it IS going to reduce flow because it is clogged.”
That is the case with every cartridge.
“All filters use depth and length, this is not an innovation by hot spring.”
Yes, this is correct. However, because of the design the tri-x cartridges have more depth and length built into the cartridge if it was taken apart and laid out. It is a more dense cartridge.
Go to your local Hotspring dealer. You will see the difference. The Tri-X cartridge weighs like 4 pounds where as the regular cartridge weighs less than one pound.
“Also, the circ pump filter does the bulk of the work - so you may very well only put it into the dishwasher, or soak that one and just rinse the rest.?
I agree
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Quote from spahappy about his spa cartridges: ‘I take the dirty one into the shower with me…’
Do you use it as your washcloth? ;D
I'd rather shower with the same stuff that's in my spa water and wash it down the drain then ingest it...But thats just me.
Spahappy
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After your very imformative toilet flushing story I'm moving all the (new) toothebrushes to the freezer.
:D
-Ed
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Ed,
I think Hotsprings is a great spa. I just have a problem with spa filters in my dishwasher. After your very imformative toilet flushing story I'm moving all the (new) toothebrushes to the freezer.
Georgiapeach,
With three teenagers I've picked up a few busy mom tricks.
I encourage people to by an extra filter or filters, right away. When it's time to clean your filter/filters, replace with the clean one/ones. I take the dirty one into the shower with me and use my shower wand to get into the pleets. When I'm done I spray the filter with diluted clorax water to prohibit mold growth, put in a sunny place and dry completely.
Welcome to the forum, This bunch will be a source of knowlege and support for you as a new spa owner! And it's nice to have another girl here!
Spahappy :D
3 Teenagers???? UGH....I've only got one and she's about to put me in an institution soon or drive me to drink (more)... ;D..... I never knew college was this hard on the parents....sheesh!
LOL.....I had to laugh at the taking the filter in the shower with me...that sounds like something I would do and believe me, I'm going to be remembering that bit of information... :-)
So, I'm guessing not too many women in this forum, eh? :-)
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I always say "Insanity is hereditary - you get it from your kids". I have 3 teenagers as well, although 1 is a Marine.
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3 Teenagers???? UGH....I've only got one and she's about to put me in an institution soon or drive me to drink (more)... ;D..... I never knew college was this hard on the parents....sheesh!
LOL.....I had to laugh at the taking the filter in the shower with me...that sounds like something I would do and believe me, I'm going to be remembering that bit of information... :-)
So, I'm guessing not too many women in this forum, eh? :-)
Not too many. One of the regulars named lori has a Hot springs spa. She's on vacation right now.
So you have one in college,$$$$$ ouch!! We're just approaching those years. My oldest is 17 and a senior in highschool. He decided to join the Navy this last summer and will leave for bootcamp next July. I've had mixed feelings about this, however prior to this decision his goal was to be a professional snowboarder, so I've accepted the latter decision as quite an improvement. My daughter is 16 and wants to move as far away as possible to attend college. My youngest son is 14 and exhibits all the signs of never leaving home...LOL
The hardest part of the whole spa experience is waiting for it to be delivered. It's always great to hear from new spa owners after the first soak. That's my favorite part of selling spa's.
Well it's great to have you on the forum and I'm sure we'll chat again....
Spahappy :D
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Chas,
If I make a mistake, I promise I will never answer another Hotspring question until you get banned again.
Chris:
You are right on all counts. Great job.
Once again: the Tri-X filters are not like Unicel/Pleatco etc. - not even close. So, if you are reading this thinking, "I may have to pop MY filters into the dishwasher and see how it goes," I would say don't do it. But also, don't think of the Tri-X as simply bigger - they are very different, and in my non-humble opinion, better.
I hope nobody gets upset about this, but here is a little clip from the HS web site about the filters:
"Our High Performance (HP) models pump an extremely large quantity of water. To ensure no water bypasses the filters, we've developed the new-to-market Tri-X™ 3-dimensional filter.
Because it filters by depth rather than just surface filtration, it filters ten times more gallons per square foot than other filters. And they're dishwasher-safe, so they're even easier to maintain!"
The picture doesn't really explain the difference well, but it's small so I'll post it anyway:
(http://www.hotspring.com/Spas_Built_Last/gifs/pht_tri_x_1filter.gif)
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I always say "Insanity is hereditary - you get it from your kids". I have 3 teenagers as well, although 1 is a Marine.
I have three boys; 13, 12 and 10. The 13 yr old has really begun his teenage know-it-all ways just like I was at that age and the mere thought that soon I may have 3 teenage versions of what I was like as a teenager is frightening. I guess I've got it coming.
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Went to the web site and took a look, that looks an awful lot like a unicel filter to me. The pleats have a different design, but that blue plastic top with the groove between the OD and ID sure do make it look like a unicel.
Chris:
You are right on all counts. Great job.
Once again: the Tri-X filters are not like Unicel/Pleatco etc. - not even close. So, if you are reading this thinking, "I may have to pop MY filters into the dishwasher and see how it goes," I would say don't do it. But also, don't think of the Tri-X as simply bigger - they are very different, and in my non-humble opinion, better.
I hope nobody gets upset about this, but here is a little clip from the HS web site about the filters:
"Our High Performance (HP) models pump an extremely large quantity of water. To ensure no water bypasses the filters, we've developed the new-to-market Tri-X™ 3-dimensional filter.
Because it filters by depth rather than just surface filtration, it filters ten times more gallons per square foot than other filters. And they're dishwasher-safe, so they're even easier to maintain!"
The picture doesn't really explain the difference well, but it's small so I'll post it anyway:
(http://www.hotspring.com/Spas_Built_Last/gifs/pht_tri_x_1filter.gif)
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10/27
Ive completed my wet test as of this afternoon. I especially want to thank the Calderra owners for pushing me to find one. I looked up their website and found a close dealer. The 5 I tested were Caldera, Master Spa, Hot Springs, Jacuzzi and Sundance. Here are my reviews in no particular order.
Jacuzzi
In my original post above, I stated that Jacuzzi had the least powerful jets.....I was wrong. They had plenty of power for me and had to be one of the quetier tubs I tested. Very comfy tub...none of the seats were uncomfortable. The positive on this tub is price. I plan on comparing warranties tonight on all the tubs. Im sure if I bought this tub, it would be a good experience throughout the ownership of it.
Master Spa
I had high hopes for this tub when I first tested it. The wet test told the story though. The seats were kinda uncomfortable. They have one seat where it surrounds your neck and you get a neck therapy by jets blasting down on your shoulders and neck. I felt like I was being strangled by a midget. This was the loudest of all the tubs as well. I have eliminated Master Spa.
Sundance
This tub met my original expectations. All seats were comfortable. Wonderful massaging seats, foot jets, powerful jets, air injection..just a good all around tub....loved the extra controller on the back of the tub...Jacuzzi didnt have it...Caldera and Hot Springs do. The sales staff was really nice and I felt comfortable with having any service done in the future. I was able to carry a conversation easily, but it still wasnt as quet as the Jacuzzi.
Caldera
Im glad I was able to test this tub. It had alot of great features. All seats were comfortable and some were overly comfortable (ie..I might fall asleep and die). As a note, I have all but eliminated a lounger. Originally I wanted one, but most seats in all the tub are comfy anyway....with that said, the Caldera had 1 seat that was like half a lounger....hard to explain, but very nice. I believe it has the same warranty as Hot Springs and mostly the same components except for filtering and titanium heater. This tub and the Sundance are about the same for noise.
Hot Springs
One of the quetier tubs. Really a nice tub thats seats well. I tested the Grande and the Vista. I definately see why this is one of the top rated tubs out there. There is another whole paragraph of good things I could say about it. The negative is obvious....the price. The salesman was very knowledgable about his brand and others and did a great job of showing me value for my dollar. Even if I dont buy his tub, I probably owe him a $20 Outback certificate. Do I think this tub is worth the extra money over a Sundance or Calderra....I dont know....maybe I need a lil time on that one.
I told most of the dealers I didnt want to discuss price until I narrowed it down further. Some gave me prices b4 I left, some didnt. Ill narrow it down to 2 or 3 and choose the one that gives me the most value for my dollar along with all the other info that I cant wait to get outta my head when this is over.
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Went to the web site and took a look, that looks an awful lot like a unicel filter to me. The pleats have a different design, but that blue plastic top with the groove between the OD and ID sure do make it look like a unicel.
Get one in your hands - the differnece is obvious. The unicel filter is a soft, pleated material very much like a heavy paper. The Tri-X filter is a hard plastic material. The Unicel filter's pleats run parallel to each other, and can easily collapse against one another - and generally do on filters with high square footage stuffed into a small package. This tendancy of the pleats to collapse against one another makes the filters harder to clean, and also makes them not always make full advantage of the surface area they have. The Tri-X filters' pleats cannot fold against each other because they are rigid. They are also much deeper than the typical filter.
Sorry, I should have stuck with my first sentence: get on in your hands and the difference will be obvious.
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Andy, Great job. Excellent reviews. The thread here got a bit off track with the filter thing but I think you have navigated nicely through the maze and should be able to see daylight soon.
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Andy, Great job. Excellent reviews. The thread here got a bit off track with the filter thing but I think you have navigated nicely through the maze and should be able to see daylight soon.
I agree, good job of testing various brands and making good notes. I hope the Master owners can handle the critique as its only one man's personal feedback. It just shows that not everyone gets the same results when they wet test but the reality is you tested top notch spas so its no surprise that more than one of them tested well.
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I am glad you enjoyed the spas and sure they are all fine spas.If you are not going to have many people in the spa get a lounger and i am sure you will enjoy it at night looking at the stars..................And maybe a plane.Jt :D
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I hope the Master owners can handle the critique as its only one man's personal feedback. It just shows that not everyone gets the same results when they wet test but the reality is you tested top notch spas so its no surprise that more than one of them tested well.
Good point, tuo, and I agree wholeheartedly. Andy's approach is excellent and it sounds as if he will definitely find the best tub for him.....if only each potential spa buyer would do the same.....
Regarding the MS shoulder jets.....when on, they are indeed loud since they are very close to the surface of the water....very easy to quieten when not in use....twist'em off. I leave'em off unless they are in use. They are very "wet", i.e. they have a tendency to spray.....either a little higher water level or just adding a second person to the spa puts them entirely under water which takes care of both the spray and the loudness.....I'm ALWAYS drawn to that seat when there is more than 1 person soaking. It is certainly one of the best shoulder therapies out there. Oh, and regarding the neck collar, I'm sure some would be more sensitive to the "wraparound" feeling....for me it is very comfortable. I find myself not sitting my bottom back in the seat but rather with my legs extended as if in the lounger.....the pressure of the water from MasterBlaster foot jet will actually support my feet as if using an ottoman.....a very comfortable therapy from shoulders to toes! And these observations can only be realized when spending more time in the seat....I had a very different opinion of this seat after my wet test than I do now (another thread in itself....)
As for the lounger, I believe if one finds the right lounger, many times there's not a better seat in the tub....especially for stargazing! But I can't say I like the lounger best all the time....actually I like all 5 seats because each is ENTIRELY different from the rest....
FWIW....
8)
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Andy...
Just some unsolicited advice and some math work since you have brought up some price issues....
Let's say we have 3 Tubs that cost $6500, $7500, and $8500 (complete with tax and accessories)
Now let's say that we think the tubs will only be good for 5 years (1825 days - ignoring leap years).
What is the cost per day on each of the tubs?
$6500 = $3.56 a day
$7500 = $4.11 a day (55 cents a day more)
$8500 = $4.66 a day (55 cents a day / $1.10 a day)
So from cheapest to most expensive we are talking about $1.10 a day or $33 a month more (30 day month).
Now let's say our tub is really going to last us 10 years (which is what we hope it will)..the math then becomes
$6500 = $1.78 a day
$7500 = $2.06 a day (28 cents a day more)
$8500 = $2.33 a day (27 cents a day / 55 cents a day)
Back to our monthly we are talking about $16.50 a month difference or $198 a year from the cheapest to most expensive.
Basically. half of that ($8.25 a month between any 2 tubs - up/down in price)
The point to all of this is that it is a big ticket item which will last a long time and I don't want you to sell yourself short on anything because of pricing. All of the tubs you have picked are in the same ballpark. When you look at the figures above, it's not that big a difference when you factor the time.
I'm not a spa salesman and have no financial interest in your decision one way or the other.
If you're sitting in your tub one night 2 years from now the amount of the higher priced tub won't even be an issue, but if you are thinking.. "I wish I would have got the <fill in the blank> instead", it will be an issue.
Just my 2 cents (and no you can't have them to apply to your 28 cents - ;D )
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Is the long term accounting that shows how little it costs to spend really big bucks part of the training at all of sales schools?
How about if I could show you how to take the money saved and invest it you could buy a new tub at the end of ten years. Wait, that was a insurance deal wasn't it?
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Is the long term accounting that shows how little it costs to spend really big bucks part of the training at all of sales schools?
How about if I could show you how to take the money saved and invest it you could buy a new tub at the end of ten years. Wait, that was a insurance deal wasn't it?
Don't know. Like I said, I'm not a sales guy. I'm a techie guy (and not hot tubs)
What's your point?
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NightOne, that is good food for thought as those tubs, assuming good for 10 years, would cost:
$0.07
$0.09
$0.10 per hour respectively.
Now if one is buying a tub today and has determined that their budget allows for an absolute max of $6500 then those pennies an hour, or dollars a day differences mean nothing.
If I know my car is going to be good for ten years why buy a $20,000 hyundai that costs $0.004 per minute when I could have bought that $100,000 BMW for $0.019 per minute... only 1.5 cent difference!
???
It's all a matter of perspective... ;)
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I agree with the principle that Night is stating. Hot Spring has a phrase " when have you ever bought the best and regretted it". Unfortunately not everyone has the financial ability always come up with the $2000 to buy the best one ( using your example ) I use the same idea everyday, however, when I am selling Hot Spring, I illustrate the energy efficiency as a "cost to own" and point out that even though they may pay more to purchase the HS over time the savings per month will make it a better deal in the long run.
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Couple of problems with the math discussion. The highest price and the best are not defined. I don't think it is allowed to define best in the hot tub board arena. Or at best it is nebulous? Been wanting to use that word. Don't confuse it with nebulas which could be "cloudiness in urine".
Where does a budget of $5000 and value come into play?
Would you say that in 10 years you would average 1/2 hour a day. Just a guess now? If so, that is 1825 hours. Why can I not see how little I can spend on using that time. A $9000 tub used for 1825 hours is $4.93 per hour? A $5000 tub used for same time is $2.74 per hour? Cannot I not value my money and put the extra $4000 in an investment and have about $5200 in ten years and buy another tub?
Sell em for what you can get is my theory. If you can get your price, good. But it is not my fault if I don't buy em.
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andy'
congrats on your testing results. i for one am using your results as a guide line for those brands that are offered locally. i'm looking forward to your conclusions. keep up the good work.
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NightOne, that is good food for thought as those tubs, assuming good for 10 years, would cost:
$0.07
$0.09
$0.10 per hour respectively.
Now if one is buying a tub today and has determined that their budget allows for an absolute max of $6500 then those pennies an hour, or dollars a day differences mean nothing.
If I know my car is going to be good for ten years why buy a $20,000 hyundai that costs $0.004 per minute when I could have bought that $100,000 BMW for $0.019 per minute... only 1.5 cent difference!
???
It's all a matter of perspective... ;)
There is a point where you can go too granular with an example and that is exactly what you have done. Using your example the BMW would cost you .02 per minute which would equate to $23.04 more a day which is $691.20 a month more. Quite a difference.
Using my original numbers and going granular as you did would yield the following:
$6500 = .0012 per minute
$7500 = .0014 per minute
$8500 = .0016 per minute
At that level of granularity it gets hard to tell signficance.
To make it even more ridiculous we could go to the per second cost.
Most people are comfortable with a per month or per day price difference, but I think going smaller doesn't go over with most people.
My point is that you have to use figures that mean something to someone.
Finally, to stir up another hornet's nest...If some can spend $6500 on something that is essentially a luxury item, then $8500 shouldn't be breaking the bank.
You said it best though.. it's a matter of perspective..and I agree.
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A spa is not an investment. It is an expense...a quite expensive expense. To buy one "on time" paying interest is an added expense.
Successful living measured in dollars is all about cash flow. Saving dollars on a purchase made today is extremely important because one does not know what calamity may occur or what financial opportunity may arise tomorrow.
Buying a spa because it is the highest priced does not make any sense economically any more than buying a high-priced car for transportation makes sense. High priced cars may offer more comfort, but high priced spas possibly won't. The higher priced spas are not necessarily any better quality than reasonably priced spas.
I expect some virulent reponses to this post.
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A spa is not an investment. It is an expense...a quite expensive expense. To buy one "on time" paying interest is an added expense.
Successful living measured in dollars is all about cash flow. Saving dollars on a purchase made today is extremely important because one does not know what calamity may occur or what financial opportunity may arise tomorrow.
Buying a spa because it is the highest priced does not make any sense economically any more than buying a high-priced car for transportation makes sense. High priced cars may offer more comfort, but high priced spas possibly won't. The higher priced spas are not necessarily any better quality than reasonably priced spas.
I expect some virulent reponses to this post.
Spoken like a salesperson of inexpensive spas.....
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A spa is not an investment. It is an expense...a quite expensive expense. To buy one "on time" paying interest is an added expense.
That's certainly your view however, the time you spend either maintaining the spa or enjoying it with your loved ones is an investment! You can choose to invest your time in something that gives you returns or something you get nothing back, depends on how good of an investor you are.
Successful living measured in dollars is all about cash flow. Saving dollars on a purchase made today is extremely important because one does not know what calamity may occur or what financial opportunity may arise tomorrow.
Successful living should be measured in quality of life and happiness, if I can't afford to take my family to the movie and ignore them for two hours at least I can enjoy their company and good conversation in a spa that I know will be working when I go out to use it and will keep the water sanitized to a healthy, comfortable level for their protection and enjoyment .
Buying a spa because it is the highest priced does not make any sense economically any more than buying a high-priced car for transportation makes sense. High priced cars may offer more comfort, but high priced spas possibly won't.
Buying a spa because it is the highest priced is arrogant and stupid. Paying a higher price for better technology, personal satisfaction, comfort level, better performance, better service and features is smart!
The higher priced spas are not necessarily any better quality than reasonably priced spas.
In some cases you might be right however, in most cases, better quality and more engineering costs more money. Unless of course you think spending that money on technology and engineering is stupid and then I would say; Take an Amish time out and shut down all of your advanced technology items like lights, hot water and computer (yes, please shut down your computer!).
Your post sounds like your trying to either justify the purchase of a substandard product or the selling of a substandard product!
I expect some virulent reponses to this post.
I thought for quite awhile before responding to your post and still don't know if it made sense to do so.... your comments where so conniving, condescending and off the wall that they probably didn't deserve the effort I put forth here!
There is another forum where guy's like Mr. Happy have gone to since getting ejected from this one. You might consider it......
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Forgive him, he purchased a Catalina.
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Forgive him, he purchased a Catalina.
Is that Maverick?! It kinda sounds like him..... :-/
(HTM,
You probably don't remember Mav but he posted just like this about Catalina and bashed everyone else!)
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Stu, I only have one thing to say..... " DANG ! "
( I agree )
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Hmmm..
Two new users posting in the thread with basically the same opinion: "More money doesn't mean better". No, it sometimes doesn't, and, yes, it sometimes does.
Many new people when they start looking for a spa are a little floored by the entrance price and start wondering "can't I get the same thing for less". Depends on what you are looking for.
Reputable manufacturers make tubs in many price ranges. Number of jets, filtration cycles, warranty honoring, dealer support by the manufacturer, ozonator type, size, shell material, etc.. are all frequently discussed on this board.
There are people who spend $6k on a watkins tub and love it. There are those who spend $11k on a thermospa and hate it, not to mention those poor SOBs who purchase rebranded, price-increased arjuna spas.
Does more money get you more tub? Depends on whether you are buying from a con artist or from a reputable manufacturer.
HOWEVER
Amongst reputable manufacturers more $$ very well will get you more features. Only you can determine if those features are important to you.
I think what NIghtOne is trying to say is "don't be penny-wise and pound-foolish". Pick a price that is COMFORTABLE for you, then pick a MAX price, and understand that those two things are different numbers and you just may pay somewhere in between.
-Ed
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I had to bump this thread because I really enjoyed it.
WOW...the sun is out.....I spent all night on this forum?
UGH....time for bed...