Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: wmccall on December 07, 2004, 02:55:00 pm
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This has been my own observation around Columbus where I live.
Even in the short time I have owned my spa, a couple of dealers have changed the primary spa (or only) they sell. My own dealer used to be a Cal Spa dealer 4 years ago, then became a Dynasty dealer before he sold the business to his son and his partner. The D1 dealer in my neighborhood is now a Cal Spa dealer and has dropped the D1 line.
I'd be curious to hear his reasoning behind that move. But I'll bet he would say something like "Its a better spa at a better price" I'm also betting some of his competitors might tell a different story, true or not. At the very least, they would use it against him that if you had bought a D1 spa then, where would you be now? I guess its similar to what those recruiting against Penn st and Notre Dame will be telling kids.
You dealers that have changed, why? What do you tell your customers, have you checked up on what your competitors have to say? Do you ever send out people to check up on them?
D1 is probably a great spa, they certainly looked like it. They are just the most real and accurate example I can give.
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Our Sundance Dealer picked up the line within the last couple years. They said it was because Sundance dropped the last dealer in this are for not being up to standards. True or not, I have no idea.
Brewman
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we recently stopped carrying a line b/c the company made changes to it. These changes were positive, but b/c of these changes the spas no longer fit into the price range we wanted them in. Add that to the fact that D-1 made a lot of great changes to it's @Home Hot Tub Line, so we decided to no longer carry that other line of spas. We tell customers who purchased this line the same thing.....we service EVERYTHING we sell, reguardless of if we choose at a later date to stop carrying that product.
Now the flip side, what do we tell potential customers about the compettion that drops and picks up spa lines like a pimp? XYZ manufacturer makes a very nice product, but it has an unproven track record in our area. Short & to the point.
We got a lot of questions this past year from customers, new and existing when we started carrying Caldera Spas in addition to Dimension One. We just told them the obvious, another high quality spa that offers some different features not currently seen on our main line of spas.
Other reasons dealers stop carrying a product:
Issues with the manufacturer(wheteher it's warranty reimbursement, conflicts with reps, change in personal, etc...)
Concerns over quality
isn't selling as well as anticipated
competition
maybe the manufacturer made changes that the dealer didn't like
loyalty concerns
impatience on the dealers part
Competitive balance (some manufacturers don't have spas in all price ranges, and having one manufacturer that meets all of those needs can be a benefit)
These are just a few reasons dealers change brands on occassion. I'd be more weary of a dealer that has changed their main line of spas SEVERAL times over a period of time, then the dealer who carried X brand for 10 yrs or more and then suddenly changed brands. I'm sure wisoki could shed some light on this subject, as well as some of the other dealers who frequently contribute to this board and others like it.
Jason,
Store Manager for a D-1 & Caldera Dealer
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Great post Jason, thanks.
Having heard tesimonials about people wet testing and then choosing one premium brand over another, I can see the logic of carrying a 2nd top of the line.
Jason,
Store Manager for a D-1 & Caldera Dealer
When people like you do a good job representing their company I periodically check who the dealers are in my area, which is one reason I keep seeing changes. Currently the closest Caldera dealer is 90 mines away in Dayton. I see there is now a new D1 dealer, the site lists it as a home improvement company. I might stop for a look someday to see what they have on thier floor and what percentage it takes up.
When buying we did stop at another home improvement store, they had lots of wonderful stuff, but only 2 hot tubs. It clearly wasn't thier main business, I can't even remember what brand it was. I'll see if I can look that up.
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The dealer that I originally purchased my infamous Cal Spa from in 1997 was only in business for a few years. He apparently sold the business to another individual or relative in 2000. Since that time they have been carrying Coast Spas.
While I was trying to obtain service for my shell blisters, I visited the store and quizzed them on why they no longer carried Cal Spas. The response was that the Cal Spas had too many warranty problems and that the factory was very difficult to work with. It seems the dealer had the same experience with Cal Spas CSR's as I did.
I am also noticing that the tech. who is trying to repair my blisters is having simmilar difficulties with Cal Spa in trying to get the correct repair kits and information.
I don't know if Coast Spa is really any better than Cal Spa. I understand that a former owner of Cal Spas started Coast Spas in Canada.
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Rarely do dealers drop a line with a reputation like D1, HotSpring, Marquis and more. It’s more often than not the Manufacture felt the dealer was either performing below standard and goal or they were not representing the product well. There are the odd times that a dealer does drop a reputable line due to personal confrontation with someone at the factory or even lack of attention from their factory rep. Most of those times both parties take credit for the split because they both see it their own way.
I will give you an example, Master Spas; we sold over a million dollars in Master spas in two sales! We were thrilled with the income, the marketing and the potential for growth we had with them in the beginning. We were a bit concerned when every spa we brought in had a problem in the first load, the first spa we filled for display had 2 pluming joints with no glue on them. Our factory rep however was on the ball and assured us that this was a fluke, he made calls for us and got things moving while he was here. Problems kept coming and the only way we could get them taken care of was to call our rep, no one at the factory would return a call.
We loved our rep, liked the salability of the product and therapy performance so we held on but by default started selling more and more of our Marquis line simply because we were getting a bit head shy of the complaints when we sold a Master. Finally we decided to wait and not order anymore for the floor until we went on the factory trip and got to talk to them in person. At the trip we started feeling better when our concerns were addressed in a group and the factory assumed responsibility for the issues saying they had a plan in place to make things better.
To make a long story short, things did not get better but worse! We even had one of the largest dealers in the country preying on our customers and the factory would not help. It became easier to sell against them with the Marquis line then to feel good about selling them. So finally our rep was fired and after not ordering more than 4 spas in almost 8 months and complaining weekly, even daily to the factory for some support we get a letter saying that if we could not show more loyalty to the brand they would have to terminate us. We sent back a letter saying that we obviously had quit trying to win the losing battle of selling their spas long ago so termination was redundant! They made sure to send a certified letter saying that they terminated us for lack of sales.
You tell me, who do you think severed the relationship, us for poor quality products and lack of dealer support or them for our lack of performance?
We told our customers that we liked the spas but the Manufacture did not perform customer service to our standard and was lacking in the area of quality control so we found another brand that would.
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They didn't come in pink.
More later - on my way to dinner with a beautiful lady. ;) ;)
Did she lose a bet or something? ;) ;) ;D
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One thing I do cringe a bit about is the title of the post.... Most of us have to overcome the used car persona that companies like Calspa and Arctic has given the industry. The words dealer might lie in a topic sentence has a subliminal effect on a new shoppers phsyci that might put up some road blocks in shopping.
Might I suggest something like:
SITUATION DEALERS/MANUFACTURES MIGHT DISAGREE
Otherwise I think this is a good topic....
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thanks for the kudos Mr. Moderator Sir. I'ts very easy to post positively and give non-biased advice based on the wonderful training and atmosphere from the owners of the pool & spa company I work for. It's really the only way we know how to conduct ourselves and do business. Thank goodness we don't have to sell against stuart, chas, wetone, steve, HTM, and mendo among others who regularly contribute to this board. It's really quite ironic though.............all of us sell a product either made by Watkins, Jacuzzi, D-1, coleman or Marquis.........and none of us bad mouth our competitors products. At both D-1's and Watkin's sales training seminars they stress this. I'd really like to go through the sales seminars for arctic, coast, cal, and master to see how the other guys train their dealers to sell their product.
Jason,
Store Manager for a D-1 & Caldera Dealer
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It's really quite ironic though.............all of us sell a product either made by Watkins, Jacuzzi, D-1, coleman or Marquis.........and none of us bad mouth our competitors products. At both D-1's and Watkin's sales training seminars they stress this. I'd really like to go through the sales seminars for arctic, coast, cal, and master to see how the other guys train their dealers to sell their product.
Jason,
Store Manager for a D-1 & Caldera Dealer
Jason
that is a great point and is right in line with what Steve was sharing in another thread...that when people who are working at being professional in what they do.... can have a mutual respect and understanding about each others products and can recognize that each brand has its metrits...lol....I am sure there times when we all have to bite our tongue or our own bias will coming shinning though....
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One thing I do cringe a bit about is the title of the post.... Most of us have to overcome the used car persona that companies like Calspa and Arctic has given the industry. The words dealer might lie in a topic sentence has a subliminal effect on a new shoppers phsyci that might put up some road blocks in shopping.
Might I suggest something like:
SITUATION DEALERS/MANUFACTURES MIGHT DISAGREE
Otherwise I think this is a good topic....
Thanks for the change Bill! That's much more "warm and fuzzy"!
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We used to sell Beachcomber. We switched this year. The list of reasons is long and political. We dont give the whole story to the customer, nor will I give it here. I will share what I feel I can without bashing them.
In cronalogical order:
1. Beachcomber issues a 5% price increase for 2004. No product improvements.
2. Beachcomber changes how you can order spas. No longer is Protec availible unless you buy an LE model
3. Beachcomber changed their discount structure. In order to receive volume rebates a dealer must now sell Beachcomber branded chemicals (with 1500+ SpaGuard customers this is really tough to swallow)
4. Beachcomber goes on strike for over 2 months, we bring in D-1. At the end of the strike Beachcomber says that we can't sell both and force us to make a choice. We chose D-1, then added Coleman.
We did continue to service our existing warranty customers until Beachcomber terminates our relationship forcing our customers to get service from a neigboring city.
Beachcomber has lost 10+ dealers in Canada's most populous proviunce this year. From what I understand it is much worse in the US
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We used to sell Beachcomber. We switched this year. The list of reasons is long and political. We dont give the whole story to the customer, nor will I give it here. I will share what I feel I can without bashing them.
In cronalogical order:
1. Beachcomber issues a 5% price increase for 2004. No product improvements.
2. Beachcomber changes how you can order spas. No longer is Protec availible unless you buy an LE model
3. Beachcomber changed their discount structure. In order to receive volume rebates a dealer must now sell Beachcomber branded chemicals (with 1500+ SpaGuard customers this is really tough to swallow)
4. Beachcomber goes on strike for over 2 months, we bring in D-1. At the end of the strike Beachcomber says that we can't sell both and force us to make a choice. We chose D-1, then added Coleman.
We did continue to service our existing warranty customers until Beachcomber terminates our relationship forcing our customers to get service from a neigboring city.
Beachcomber has lost 10+ dealers in Canada's most populous proviunce this year. From what I understand it is much worse in the US
In our area Beachcomber has had as many as 5 dealers in a 60 mile radius at the same time. I bypassed them for that reason.
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Prior to the dealers that dropped, there were 6 within a 20 mile redius here too. That didn't help. Out of those dealers, three switched and one closed shop.
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Wow, I am glad that I do not have to deal with that type of competition. The closest Beachcomber dealer in all directions to the store I work out of is almost two hours away. The only exception is another of our stores, but even that is a 45 minute drive away.
Was it only Beachcomber that had multiple dealers close by in your area(s)?
Joe
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Coleman had more than what we deemed acceptable at the time but that worked itself out. Beachcomber was the predominate company that did that which could have been a Rep issue but the people they set up as competitive dealers where everything from hearth products companies to furniture retailers that had no spa experience. Many people coming into the spa industry have dealt with products that had a much easier true margin to set and they do not always take into account all of the incidental costs involved in selling, delivering and servicing spas correctly. It has been the downfall of many in this area, if you don't make a true margin eventually you will no longer be able to afford to operate your business.
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Some times a manufacture can put a dealer into a corner leaving the dealer no option but to drop them.
We were a Coast Mountain Spas franchise much like a Beachcomber. In three years we became one of there top five stores in volume, Canada & Europe. Coast Mountain Spas also builds an economy line of spas for the Rona chain (Canadian big box stores like home depot) in May of this year Rona bought out the Building Box, Coast Mountain Spas contract for economy spas tripled, they could not keep up, so they left ALL the dealers orders unfilled for 60 days then started extending delivery dates on orders in the system, all our order delivery dates got extended another 60 days, waiting 4 month to get the spas, not an option, we brought in Artesian and D1 and had all the customer with orders come in, explained the situation, gave them the option of a full refund with interest or pick any spa from D1 or Artesian and have it in three weeks. They all choose higher priced replacements, got them in three weeks and everybody was extremely happy. Coast Mountain Spas came back 3 weeks ago asking for our business, we asked for a firm commitment in writing for reasonably delivery times, which they would not commit to. We no longer sell there spas, but service all there product under warranty which they support.
Coast Mountain Spas lost ALL of there dealers in Ontario this year because of the delivery problems.
Those dealers now sell Artesian & Coleman.
We also tell our customers that buy, if for what ever reason we ever stopped selling that brand we would still service the product with or with out the manufactures support.
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we brought in Artesian and D1 and had all the customer with orders come in, explained the situation, gave them the option of a full refund with interest or pick any spa from D1 or Artesian and have it in three weeks.
What a very admirable thing to do!
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Random thought based on what some of you have said. Looking around Columbus, I don't know of a dealer in Columbus that carries a "main line" that others in the area do. Despite being the largest city in Ohio, there are a couple of brands that aren't represented at all. Its at least 50-60 miles out of town before you see any duplication. Living in a larger city, I'm use to thinking 50 miles is too far for me to go for any major purchase, but I know some of you deal with dealers from further away.
There is some duplication on the lesser expensive models though. One of the bigger stores in town carries Hot Springs and the Tiger River models, and they carry only the lower models of Cal and Viking, There is only one store carrying the whole Cal line.
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Well, I purchased my HotSpring spa from a reputable dealer that had been(and still is) in business for over 20 years. I bought my spa in Feb and in July I called them with general quesitons, only to find they dropped the line. I was a little upset that this was not conveyed to me when i purchased the spa. In hindsight, based on the deals they were offering, I am sure they knew they were dropping the line when they sold me the spa in Feb. I still would have bought the spa but it would have been nice to know.
This dealer was approx 10 miles from my house. When I questioned them about warranty work they referred me to the nearest Hot Spring dealer that was over 60 miles away. I called this dealer and they assured me they would service me with no problems. This made me feel better and I knew I was still backed by Watkins. Within a month, the dealer that was over 60 miles away, opened a new store front selling HotSprings only 2 miles from my house. I have been in the store several times and I have been treated just as if I had bought my spa from them They are always professional, helpful, and courteous.
I am not really sure what point I was trying to make here but I felt compelled to tell my 'dealer' story again. Sorry to those who heard it all before...LOL
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HotSpring is a line that most dealers would be nuts to drop and from the sounds of it the other dealer was bigger and representing the company better. It would be my bet that HS made that decision and needed to drop your dealer to let the other company open their new store...
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Now that's what I call DEALER SUPPORT!
It would be my bet that HS made that decision and needed to drop your dealer to let the other company open their new store...
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Now that's what I call DEALER SUPPORT!
I know that you were burned in a similar incident but you have to see the side of the Manufacture. They are in this to be successful and as long as a dealer is making every effort to give them the most that the region will produce I don't think most Manufactures would drop the little guy for a much larger dealer however, you and I both know that there are a lot of politics when dealing with the larger brands and you’d better cover your bases.
If you plan on selling a major brand in a high volume area you had better plan on giving everything you've got to be a major contender in the market or you will be replaced!
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Perk1,
Are you in Shreveport, perhaps?
This sounds exactly like what happened to enable our company to open our Shreveport store. The local lawn mower shop was selling HS all over the south and not servicing their customers. Watkins dropped them and asked us to open a store. We have always taken care of HS customers whether they bought their spa from us or from another dealer.
Chris O.
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I am not really sure what point I was trying to make here but I felt compelled to tell my 'dealer' story again. Sorry to those who heard it all before...LOL
Very approrpriate for this thread. Thanks.
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A question just abit off topic.
How much power does a manufactures area rep. really have? Can he/she walk in to my store one day and say, there is a new dealer opening that want's to go excluve with the product, so your done? Taking into account my store is the largest in size and volume in the area and Service on every level has been top notch.
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A question just abit off topic.
How much power does a manufactures area rep. really have? Can he/she walk in to my store one day and say, there is a new dealer opening that want's to go excluve with the product, so your done? Taking into account my store is the largest in size and volume in the area and Service on every level has been top notch.
In Canada, yes, unless you have a contract. Even if they couldn't they could make you drop them through long shipping times, shipping errors etc.
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Even if they couldn't they could make you drop them through long shipping times, shipping errors etc.
Would that not reflect very poorly on the manufactures product and image?
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YES
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Perk1,
Are you in Shreveport, perhaps?
Chris O.
No, actually I am in Southern NJ. It was a very well established Niagara Pool dealer that carried both Master and HS. When I went back recently looking at pool tables,I did inquire as to why they stopped selling the HS line. They said they wanted to sell Master exclusively.
The new dealer also has a store dedicated stictly to Hot Tubs while the previous dealer also sold pools/pool tables/foosball tables/etc. Not that it is bad to sell other things in your store but the sales staff at the new dealer really only have to 'know' spas.
Anyway, I think the bottom line is that as long as you have the backing of a 'major' manufacturer with a reputation for great customer service, then you will also have good dealer support.
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I have to tell you that I have NEVER heard of a company dropping HS for Master! I have heard of HS dropping Master dealers though, two completely different types of sales and company philosophies.
I don't think there is a lot of love between the two so my guess would be that HS played hardball telling the dealer to get rid of Master or they were done and the dealer either did not like being dictated to from the manufacture (That's would be how I would take it) and/or did not represent HS like they thought they should be in the market....