Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: matthewc on November 29, 2004, 03:02:04 pm
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Hi Guys
I have recently had a power cut and all of my control pannel settings have gone back to default. Can anyone tell me how long i should run my filtration and Ozonator for per day?
Thanks
MAtt
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Make and model?
Size?
Do you recall about how much you had them running before? I always say to run the filter the shortest amount which keeps the water looking the way you want it.
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Make and model?
Size?
Do you recall about how much you had them running before? I always say to run the filter the shortest amount which keeps the water looking the way you want it.
Agreeing with the ever-wise Chas. One additional question, how long have you owned your tub? My filtration is settable in 2 hour increments from 0-24 hours. Initially I found a setting of 10 hours a day kept the water in good shape. But after a year of that and getting a better idea of how to keep my water in good shape I have dropped that back to 8 hours a day.
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Hopefully there is a default schedule programmed into the controller (my controller has such)....if so, try it and see if it will satisfy your requirements. Good luck.
8)
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Hi Guys
Sorry for the lack of info.
My tub is a Nordic Rendezvous which holds about 1800L.
The control pannel manual says that the filters will always run at 12 hour intervals, but that you can change the time on from 0 to 12 hours. After a power cut it reverts to 4 hours on twice a day. However as this is standard for the SpaBuilders controller it may not be best for my tub. I have had the tub for about 2 months and so far the water looks pretty good. My guess is that the supplier i brought it from just leaves it at the standard time, but i would like to be a bit more scientific if possible.
Matt
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Why is it that the Hot Springs dont come on during the day for a cycle and only rely on the circulation pump? ???
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Two reasons: one, they have a constant flow through one of the filters via a small circ pump. That tends to do a small amount of filtering on an ongoing basis.
Then, they have lots of filtration when the jets are running. They filter all the water which the pumps move, not just a portion of it.
As a result, most people don't need additional filtration cycles. But if you find you want a cycle, you can hit the 'clean' button and run the jets for about ten minutes. That will do what other tubs take an hour or more to do.
And they have found that you usually only need such extra cycles in ralation to use: meaning usually after you get out of the tub.
It works quite well, actually.
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As a result, most people don't need additional filtration cycles. But if you find you want a cycle, you can hit the 'clean' button and run the jets for about ten minutes. That will do what other tubs take an hour or more to do.
How is it filtering more in ten minutes than other spas that are filtering for an hour or more?
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How is it filtering more in ten minutes than other spas that are filtering for an hour or more?
Because HS tubs do not bypass the filters. All the water the pumps move is going through a filter. (http://www.hotspring.com/Spas_Built_Last/gifs/pumps_filters.gif) On a spa with a single filter, such as our Tiger River tubs for example, you move about the same amount of water, but you will filter only half, or less. Much less as the filte gets loaded up.
So - you can filter in ten minutes what a bypass tub will take an hour or more to do. Why do you think so many people post here saying that they have to run their spas four hours, twice a day - or more - to keep the water clean?
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Chas,
If left unattended for a 24 hour period, do the HotSprings therapy pumps come on automatically for a period of time or does just the 24 circ pump run by itself for the entire period? ???
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Ok, so no water bypasses the filters when the jet pumps are on..................playing devils advocate, what happens if by chance someone gets their hair, bathing suit, shirt sleeve etc...caught in the filter well???? There must be some sort of safety measure that senses a restriction of flow that would shut the pumps off???? I have heard this in sales seminars and feel that it is a scare tactic, which btw we do not use and I will add that I hope no one would stoop to using scare tactics to sell their product.
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Ok, so no water bypasses the filters when the jet pumps are on..................playing devils advocate, what happens if by chance someone gets their hair, bathing suit, shirt sleeve etc...caught in the filter well???? There must be some sort of safety measure that senses a restriction of flow that would shut the pumps off????
.....hence the emergency pair of scissors located in the filter compartment....... ;D
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Ok, so no water bypasses the filters when the jet pumps are on..................playing devils advocate, what happens if by chance someone gets their hair, bathing suit, shirt sleeve etc...caught in the filter well????
Well, I have a two-fold answer. One, our tubs (And Jacuzzi) were the very first tubs to be UL listed. We helped write the UL standard, as well as the ANSI standard. Now - even though our tubs are listed through ETL - we still build and test to that same UL standard, which has been updated over the years for better safety. As a result, we couldn't send tubs out which could trap people.
If you want a scare tactic, look at in-ground tubs, particularly older concrete/gunite ones. Those are the only ones which have harmed people in suction accidients. And even then, it almost always happened as a result of somebody removing a floor drain cover or a repairman who removed a valve or installed a different pump.. this stuff just doesn't involve self-contained spas, UL listed or not.
Secondly, take an honest look at a HotSpring spa filter area. There are vents near the bottom of the filter area, there is a sliding weir, and a cover which lifts off. And inside, are two, three, four or even five filters - depending on model. All HotSpring tubs have two filters (or more) per jet pump. So if you somehow manage to form yourself into a non-human shape and do, in fact, manage to get yourself wrapped around one of the filters, you will only feel the slightest motion as the water simply begins to flow from the other filter or filters.
The filters draw from a surface area of 30 to 60 feet, and have more filters on the same line. Try it yourself: go to a showroom and run the jets on any HS tub. Try the HP models for the max flow - that would be an Envoy or a Vista. Run all the pumps, open the filter lid and put your hand on one of the filters. You will not feel suction - you might feel water flow, but you will not feel suction. Now as you're standing there, try to imagine how on earth you would ever wrap yourself around two or more of those filters at the same time... And hair is not an issure either, as the pleats have a limited depth which cannot grab onto hair.
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But if some mischevious teenagers decided to remove the filters, then stick their heads into the intake, by golly you'd have a real mess on your hands!
(This was actually stated by the one who shall not be mentioned.)
Brewman
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But if some mischevious teenagers decided to remove the filters, then stick their heads into the intake, by golly you'd have a real mess on your hands!
(This was actually stated by the one who shall not be mentioned.)
Brewman
Well, this is what I like to refer to as, "error." Some would call it an easily proven lie....
Go ahead: take the filter(s) out. You will be looking at a plastic standpipe with carefully designed grills up and down all sides - still safe. The UL testers are generally smarter than your average teenager...
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Now - even though our tubs are listed through ETL - we still build and test to that same UL standard, which has been updated over the years for better safety.
Chas, since there are very few of us Master Spas supporters on this board, I just wanted to state, without creating any controversy or making any insinuations regarding your post, that Master Spas are UL listed.
Also, please help me understand HotSprings' filtration:
If left unattended for a 24 hour period, do the HotSprings therapy pumps come on automatically for a period of time or does just the 24 circ pump run by itself for the entire period?
Thanks, man....
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(This was actually stated by the one who shall not be mentioned.)
Brewman
Is this like the Harry Potter thing? ;) VALDAMONT! (sic) There, I said it! ;D
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Cool, Thanks Chas.
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Chas, since there are very few of us Master Spas supporters on this board, I just wanted to state, without creating any controversy or making any insinuations regarding your post, that Master Spas are UL listed.
Also, please help me understand HotSprings' filtration:
Thanks, man....
So, I know I'm not Chas, but I own a HotSpring. The pumps do not come on. Just the circ pump. It runs 24/7, so there is no need for the jet pumps to come on to circulate the water to filter. That is why he brought up no bypass filtering. (I think, please correct me if I am wrong, Chas)
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Something that I have heard Chas state before (and Chas, please correct me if I mis-state here):
Normally, just a 24 hour circulation pump is only going to draw X amount of water through the filters per day.
Often, just moving X amount of water per day is not enough and many tubs also kick on the jets for a while (30-40 minutes 3-4 times a day is not unheard of, right?). This makes more water go through the filters, yielding better filtration.
Hot springs have 5 filters instead of 1 or 2, and the new tri-x filters that hot spring uses have much more square footage than many other tubs (at least this was true when I poked around on this several months ago). So, drawing the water through those 5 deep filters X times per day does yield adequate filtration.
I imagine, of course, this assumes that you use the tub a couple of times per week.
My grandee has a bunch of water, and I do not, yet, have the tri-x filters, so I would imagine filtering the tub is a good test of the system. If I don't use the tub and don't add my MPS every day it will get cloudy in about 3 days with "old water" and about 4-5 days with new water.
Adding the MPS and running the jets on a clean cycle (20 minutes - once per day) and we never have a problem.
When water is cloudy, a shock and running 2 or 3 clean cycles back to back then next morning the water is clear again.
Whatever is happening, it seems to be working just fine.
-Ed
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The jets do not come on for extra filtration - they cannot be programmed to do so.
For most people, this works fine. Some folks find the need to go out and poke the "clean button" every so often, but for most you just use that feature after you get out of the tub.
Ed, I think you might not get the cloudy water after four of five days if you did one of two things:
Slow down!! For heaven's sake, why on earth would anyone go four or five days without using their tub !!! ???
Or, more seriously, you might want to try a dose of Dichlor instead of the MPS. Maybe every time, or maybe alternating. It generally sticks around longer, and is quite a bit more potent as an oxidizer, and it is a santizer to boot. Give it a shot, you can easily go back to MPS.... I hate to mess with success: your system is working, but give it a shot.
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Normally, just a 24 hour circulation pump is only going to draw X amount of water through the filters per day.
Often, just moving X amount of water per day is not enough and many tubs also kick on the jets for a while (30-40 minutes 3-4 times a day is not unheard of, right?). This makes more water go through the filters, yielding better filtration.
Hot springs have 5 filters instead of 1 or 2, and the new tri-x filters that hot spring uses have much more square footage than many other tubs (at least this was true when I poked around on this several months ago). So, drawing the water through those 5 deep filters X times per day does yield adequate filtration.
The larger 2 pump modles that Hot Spring has have 5 filters, 4 (2 each) for the jet pumps, and 1 for the circ pump. The other models they offer have 3 filters, 2 for the jet pump and 1 for the circ pump. Keep in mind that if you don't use the spa for a week, the only filter in use is the one that is in line with the circ pump due to the fact that many of the models Hot Spring offers do not have a set filtration cycle for the jet pumps. Do Hot spring spas have excelent filtration??? YES Do most of the top manufacturers have excelent filtration??? YES Seriously, show me a spa made by a top manufacturer that DOESN'T have adequate filtration??? Pretty tough isn't it???
Jason,
Store Manager for a D-1 & Caldera Dealer
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Blimey
I only wanted to know how long to run my filtration for? I guess it's a bigger subject than i though. I think i will just stick to my two 4 hour cycles!
Matt
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Consider the "chatter" the price you pay for the advice you get! ;)
Go ahead with your plan, and if your water stays clear, and tests out ok, they you're good to go. You can always adjust the timing if you need to.
I have mine set for 4 filter cycles a day, for 30 minutes each. That keeps my water nice and clear. But I also have a circulation pump running 24 X 7 which is also filtering the water. And I'm guessing that the filters on your spa are different than the ones on mine.
Brewman
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Do Hot spring spas have excelent filtration??? YES Do most of the top manufacturers have excelent filtration??? YES Seriously, show me a spa made by a top manufacturer that DOESN'T have adequate filtration??? Pretty tough isn't it???
Jason,
Store Manager for a D-1 & Caldera Dealer
I think Jason hits the nail on the head....there are many successful approaches to reach the same goal of sanitation......and I agree with him. The only question I might raise is this: There is water that can remain uncirculated in the HotSprings' therapy pumps' plumbing unless human intervention takes place. Over a period of days without human intervention, would this have the ability to compromise water sanitation? Could this cause a buildup of bacteria in the therapy pumps' plumbing? Mind you, I'm playing devil's advocate here out of curiosity.....I believe HotSprings' filtration methods are top notch though I feel the 100% filtration issue is overstated as a feature that puts HotSprings filtration above all others.
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That's a good question WSD. My HS manual recommends if going away for a few (3 - 5) days shock before leaving AND again when you return. I hadn't really given it much thought but you probably just nailed the reason for the "double shock."
kinda related, I had a service tech out a couple months back on a minor issue. He gave me a lot of "not in the manual" wisdom. One tip was to leave the waterfall valve open just enough to allow a slight trickle from the water feature. His reason was to allow sanitizer to move through the pvc line. I hadn't thought about the therapy jet lines when the tub sits idle. . .for HS owners I guess it puts new meaning in the above advice, "Why on earth would anyone go four or five days without using their tub!!!"
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The only question I might raise is this: There is water that can remain uncirculated in the HotSprings' therapy pumps' plumbing unless human intervention takes place. Over a period of days without human intervention, would this have the ability to compromise water sanitation? Could this cause a buildup of bacteria in the therapy pumps' plumbing?
No. There is a small line which ties the small circ pump to various parts of the spas - areas such as the Moto Massage cavity, the filter well, and the jet plumbing. Hop into a HotSpring spa, get settled and then turn on the jets. (Tell them they look especially beautiful in candlelight) - you will feel hot water right from the start. That's one of those engineered feature which doesn't show up in the brochure...
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Cool! I didn't really need an excuse to not let the tub sit idle! But what about that water feature line - was my service tech. "slightly left of well informed" & am I wasting my time leaving it on "trickle" all the time?
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I don't have a waterfall (they added that after I bought :'() but I looked at a spa that had them available. That is the same advice, UTS, that the dealer gave me, if I bought one. To me, it would be insurance, even if it circulated through that system, having a trickle couldn't hurt.
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Cool! But what about that water feature line - was my service tech. "slightly left of well informed" & am I wasting my time leaving it on "trickle" all the time?
Actually, on the spas with waterfeatures a little trickle is a good thing. Those systems are not part of the constant flow. I know when I start my 'Bella Fontana' on my Vista, it moves a bit of cold water at first.
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So much to learn, so little time! I think I'll go hit the hot tub and let it all sink in. (It's 39 degrees, light rain. . .yeah, I can do this.)
Thanks guys! (and gal!)
Stars
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No. There is a small line which ties the small circ pump to various parts of the spas - areas such as the Moto Massage cavity, the filter well, and the jet plumbing. Hop into a HotSpring spa, get settled and then turn on the jets. (Tell them they look especially beautiful in candlelight) - you will feel hot water right from the start. That's one of those engineered feature which doesn't show up in the brochure...
Thanks, Chas, that makes perfect sense......nice design. 8)