Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Wheeler on October 29, 2004, 12:21:49 am
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So did your dealer actually deliver your spa, or did they send a subcontractor? I was pretty surprised today to see my Sundance dealer sent a subcontractor to deliver and setup my spa. That was a question I had never thought to ask about... who delivers the spa? I always assumed the dealer had their own guys who did this.
The subcontractor was three guys with a pickup, a flatbed trailer, some assorted tools, one drill with a dead battery, etc. They did an OK job overall, but I thought they were much too unprofessional and not terribly worried about doing a careful and thorough job with my large, expensive purchase.
Being somewhat of a perfectionist, I ended up spending an hour or so re-doing part of the cover lifter install myself after they left. In their haste, they put the cover on backwards (so the little web handle on the side of the "front" half of the cover was toward the back of the spa). Having these handles on the front half sides makes it easier to flip the cover over onto itself before raising the lifter arms. I also didn't like that they had the lifter arms mounted too far forward on the brackets so that the lifted cover hung over the back seats of the spa at about an 75 or 80 degree angle. I moved the arm assembly back farther on the brackets, which hopefully will help alleviate the feeling that the cover is hanging over your head.
The installers also managed to split one of the side panel frames with the bolts for the cover lifter bracket, so I'll have to go back after the dealer about that. Finally, they managed to strip out a couple of the mounting screws for the cover lock brackets. Not exactly the best delivery experience I've ever had, comparing to furniture and appliance deliveries.
Anyway, I just thought it was an unusual and subpar delivery. Everyone always talks about their dealer delivering the tub, and I'd never heard of a specialized spa installation subcontractor before. Just wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience??
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I had the dealer deliver the spa.
As it turned out he had subcontracted the job out.
My thinking in getting the Dealer to deliver is that he was responsible, or liable for any problems that resulted from the delivery. I paid $200. Cdn
I was not too impressed with their installation. There was a plumbing problem which the dealer had to come back the next day and correct.
It was done promptly and with no problems to me.
I still think this was a far better arrangement than If I had undertaken this back breaking job myself as if I had screwed up it would have been my problem.
Regards Zz
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I drove my flat bed truck to the dealer had them load it with there fork lift. Then me and a couple of my buddies unloaded it positioned it where I wanted and hooked up the power and began filling. It went exactly as I wanted, was a perfect instalation.
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My dealer has employees who deliver and install. They also are there if you want them to be to walk you thru the operation and maintanance of the spa.
Brewman
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My dealer was in a particulary good sales month and contracted the delivery. After they messed ours up so bad, the dealer hired two people for full time delivery work.
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My dealer has delivery guys. They came, unloaded, moved the tub around til I was happy that it was in the position I wanted, installed the cover lifter and checked with me to make sure it was lifting right and at the right angle. One of the guys even took the time to give me the lesson on the chemicals and such and what the buttons did. Did a triple check with me to make sure everything was where/how we wanted it. I was very pleased with the dilivery and thought it was very professional.
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My dealer has a team of techs that deliver, install and service the spas. On the day of delivery, the service manager showed up first. then came the crane following behind the pick-up with my tub on the back. The service manager supervised while the main tech guided the tub down over the house. The helper did the grunt work and the main tech hooked up everything but the electrical. Delivery and install went without a hitch.
And I did ask before purchasing who did this part, the dealer said they did and it was not subbed out.
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My dealer's delivery crew consisted of 3 voluptuous girls. After they set the tub in place we didn't bother to add water before we got in and tried all the seating positions. The lounger was the best for most of us.
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“My dealer's delivery crew consisted of 3 voluptuous girls. After they set the tub in place we didn't bother to add water before we got in and tried all the seating positions. The lounger was the best for most of us.”
I didn’t realize you bought a spa from me! I hope they got a good tip.
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Our dealer subcontracted it out. They (two guys) showed up with a big truck with a couple of spas on it. The put the spa down on a piece of CARDBOARD, and then slid it about 30 feet over grass to where it was to sit on the concrete slab we poured. Then, with it on its side next to the slab, they lowered it down until it was just a few feet off the ground and then it kind of thumped into place.
I wasn't there watching, but my wife was and her comment over the phone was "oh.ooh.. OUCH.. I hope this thing is sturdy inside".
No problems after several months, though.
-Ed
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Local dealer has used own delivery crews for 17 yrs. They do awesome job.
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My tub was delivered by one of the dealers men and three helpers who had obviously done this before.They came as per schedule at 7:30 am and had it in place without a hitch by 8. They even gave me 5 minutes to drill my hydro entry hole . It would have beena pain to do it with the tub in its final position.However they did not install the cover lifter or give me any instruction on controls etc. Just as well as I installed the lifter a little different than the instructions to suit my situation. All in all it was a positive experience. bobhol
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My dealer subcontracts out deliveries and are done by crane (large one, at that). Sales person then comes out to install ozonator, cover lifter, etc, start up and do a home orientation. Of course, I installed my cover lifter myself because I felt I would do a better job than anyone else.
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My story as well.
My dealer has delivery guys. ÊThey came, unloaded, moved the tub around til I was happy that it was in the position I wanted, installed the cover lifter and checked with me to make sure it was lifting right and at the right angle. ÊOne of the guys even took the time to give me the lesson on the chemicals and such and what the buttons did. ÊDid a triple check with me to make sure everything was where/how we wanted it. Ê I was very pleased with the dilivery and thought it was very professional.
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My dealer sent 2 recent HS grads with the spa on a trailer. Had me concerned but they did a fantastic job. Moved it into position on the pad and put it exactly where I wanted it. Even moved it an inch to get it perfect after I told them it was close enough.
One of the kids then installed the lifter and ozonator while the other cleaned up. Gave me some basic instructions on filling and took a water sample. I hook up the electrical and got the inspection done. Then we when to the dealer for a chemical class.
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Think our Sundance dealer has the delivery crew working for them. It was 2 guys. They installed ozonator, cover lifter, and LED light and put the spa in place.
Our delivery went perfect. The guys showed up with the spa on a flatbed. After installing the ozone and LED the tipped the spa onto it's side onto a combo plastic/carpet pad. One guy pulled it around the backyard (other guy making sure it didn't tip over..). He pulled it right into position and the two guys lowered it. Once in position they installed the cover lifter. Whole process took probably 45 minutes. Electrician came the next day and we were up and running. Couldn't have asked for a better delivery crew!!
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My dealer has dedicated delivery crews. They did a good job with the delivery as they do 3 a day.
I guess the real question that might be asked is, what if a sub contracted crew damages your spa? Do you have a claim with the dealer or the sub contractor?
I am in the freight shipping industry and this would be interesting to see some answers. If the dealer was A+ they would take responsibility, but I know the trucker would really be responsible in the end.
Jonathan
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I would expect to have my dealer be responsible for any damage done by them or their subs.
Unless you agreed to something else, your agreement was between you and the dealer. The dealer, in turn, had their own agreement between them and the delivery company.
Our spa was on a really neat trailer.
Once unhooked from the tow vehicle, the installers put a special set of wheels on the trailer, and tipped it up on its side, spa and all. The road tires stayed with the truck.
These other wheels had 4 relatively large air filled tires, which were steerable. The trailer converted right to a spa dolly. Really clever gadget. Two men were easily able to wheel it down into our backyard, and set it down right on target.
Brewman
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The dealer I work for has it's own crews. Our delivery guys work in our service deptartment, install In-ground, and above ground pools as well. Spa deliveries keep them busy during the months that we can't install pools.
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You deal with the dealer. The dealer deals with the sub. Any dealer that uses a subcontrator should be sure they are adequately insured. IMO, the spa in not yours until it is in its final resting spot. If it is not perfect, that is the dealers problem.
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Ok, my 1000th post will be recounting the day my tub was delivered. I had all the prewiring done, I was told the day it would be, the exact time could vary.
I took the day off work. 2pm in the afternoon came, I called the store, the delivery company hadn't picked it up yet. 5pm, same story. 7pm,. the store was closing, but someone would wait around for the delivery company to pick it up. I called back at 8pm nobody answered, I figured I had wasted a day's vacation.
About 10:15pm up pulls the delivery truck. Two guys were going to move our huge tub. I elected to help, big mistake. They got it in place, proceeded to try to figure out how to put the steps together (we had to help) They installed the cover lifter and drilled a hole through our cover. Then the guy told me the chemicals that came with our tub were not sufficient and we needed to spend $200 on his kit. I threw him out of my yard and completed the water and electrical hook up. Just after midnight I had a functional tub that was sitting at 52 degrees. The dealer replaced the cover the next day and apologized repeatedly. Its been all good since then.
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I guess the real question that might be asked is, what if a sub contracted crew damages your spa? Do you have a claim with the dealer or the sub contractor?
As you will see in my story above, the dealer took care of me.
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I guess the real question that might be asked is, what if a sub contracted crew damages your spa? Do you have a claim with the dealer or the sub contractor?
I should add that I only signed for delivery of the tub once everything was in place. The service manager had to go for another delivery apppointment halfway through my delivery and left the form with the lead hand. When everything was installed, he produced the documents along with all of the other paperwork like warranties etc... and I signed for the tub. Up until that point the dealer was still legally in posssession of the the tub. So anything happens it is his.
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Chris, each of them got a very big tip.
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I am glad to see that the dealers are standing behind their 3rd party contractors (so far, Spa Haven Owners not so lucky).
I tipped the 3 guys $75 and told them to enjoy and good lunch on me. Back in the day (not long ago, $25 would get you a nice dinner, and I'm not that old!) I saw one of the delivery guys when I went to the store and he went out of his way to say hi to me and ask about the spa. As I paraphrase Steve Martin in the movie 'My Blue Heaven', "I just don't tip, I over tip". My thought exactly.
Jonathan
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I AM a subcontractor...
I have delivered spas for as many as four dealerships in my territory as well as individual spa moves for folks moving across town.
And unlike other subs mentioned here, I dont use my beer drinking buddies and a flatbed trailer to get from point A to point B. I dont use cardboard to sled or skid any product. I dont use plywood to make a piano dolly work. And its never taken me more than myself and another fellow to deliver any spa.
The company that delivered Brewman's spa used the Spa Dolly made by Almar Manufacturing in Kansas (1-800-617-5496). This is the same system I have used since 2001 and the thing is worth its weight in gold. (Well... almost... Lets put it this way-- If I allocated all the net income made using this specialized trailer I would have been able to purchase another new Spa Dolly the first year I used it,... this year it would be two.)
As a service provider I was able to use this equipment to suppliment my income by delivering for dealers that couldn't deliver as fast or as safely--or didnt have the dedicated manpower.
If youre either a dealer or service provider its essential that you have the right tools to do the job. In my opinion its not enough to have your delivery crew in matching t-shirts and I can tell you from numerous deliveries that theres nothing more effective in earning your customers confidence in your ability than using tools specifically designed to the job youre out to do.
Cardboard--- ::) silly boys.
Oh and as for damage done to the product in the course of delivery... It would be the subcontractor that would be responsible for damages- Anything happening to the product while it is in their posession is something that they'd be liable for.
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I AM a subcontractor...
I have delivered spas for as many as four dealerships in my territory as well as individual spa moves for folks moving across town.
And unlike other subs mentioned here, I dont use my beer drinking buddies and a flatbed trailer to get from point A to point B. I dont use cardboard to sled or skid any product. I dont use plywood to make a piano dolly work. And its never taken me more than myself and another fellow to deliver any spa.
The company that delivered Brewman's spa used the Spa Dolly made by Almar Manufacturing in Kansas (1-800-617-5496). This is the same system I have used since 2001 and the thing is worth its weight in gold. (Well... almost... Lets put it this way-- If I allocated all the net income made using this specialized trailer I would have been able to purchase another new Spa Dolly the first year I used it,... this year it would be two.)
As a service provider I was able to use this equipment to suppliment my income by delivering for dealers that couldn't deliver as fast or as safely--or didnt have the dedicated manpower.
If youre either a dealer or service provider its essential that you have the right tools to do the job. In my opinion its not enough to have your delivery crew in matching t-shirts and I can tell you from numerous deliveries that theres nothing more effective in earning your customers confidence in your ability than using tools specifically designed to the job youre out to do.
Cardboard--- ::) silly boys.
Oh and as for damage done to the product in the course of delivery... It would be the subcontractor that would be responsible for damages- Anything happening to the product while it is in their posession is something that they'd be liable for.
Spa Tech
Excellent Post. Thats the kind of information I can get my teeth into.
Thanks
Regards, Zz
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I agree. Nice comments ST.
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I was surprised to see so many dealers using subs. My feeling is that when you use subs, you have the opportunity to loose too much control and customer service. If there is a problem, the customer should go to the dealer and make him responsible to fix it. He then can do with what he wants with the subs.
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I was surprised to see so many dealers using subs. My feeling is that when you use subs, you have the opportunity to loose too much control and customer service.
Actually, subcontractors can help a retailer retain more control over their business.
For example, smaller or newer retailers often arent generating enough income to justify hiring a part time staff, let alone a full time crew to deliver spas. Often, this type of retailer doesnt have the experience in service and delivery necessary to put the professional polish in execution. And there are experienced retailers that want nothing to do, other than sell spas...
With a qualified subcontractor, the product gets from point A to point B on a cost per unit basis, without having to pay for workmans comp insurance, the cost of processing payroll, the cost of a delivery truck and equipment on standby, insurance for said truck and equipment, and dealing with the income vacumme created by hourly employees.
This is the primary reason why dealers use subs- Now on the other hand,...
As an experienced spa service man and delivery tech, that's not how I will be conducting business. Once I'm in position to open doors on a storefront spa dealership, I'll be servicing and delivering my own product. Perhaps my feelings will change over time, but I tend to be a little bit of a control freak. 8)
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At our Jacuzzi Dealership (Calgary, Alberta) we never use subcontractor's for delivery. We are too possesive and particular to trust anybody to care about this aspect of our business!!! Our service manager personally oversees every delivery (2 per day right now). Our delivery service includes all manpower required to place tub, fill, add chemicals and provide full orientation. Our labour crew stays busy raking and tidying up our clients yard while the tub is being filled. The entire process takes about 3-4 hrs. As an Dealer I just don't feel comfortable "subbing" any of this out. I don't want anyone getting between myself and my clients.
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That was kind of a diss to me ST but I have been purchasing tools and equipment for 3 different mechanical contractors for the last 22 years. The fact that I was not afraid to make my own delivery and even wanted to, should tell you that moving a hot tub for a guy in my industry was an easy one. I have machinery movers capable of moving up to 100 tons that can be steered, I have air cushion movers also up to 20 ton capacity, carts big and small and of every capacity imaginable, for everything from mud to concrete surfaces to non marring. When the question was asked I answered honestly. I appreciate your advice to others, but to under your breath say my tub move was not professional was wrong. I used a lift gate and a truck boom from the flat bed to the pad I built with 2 buds helping me swing it and position it. 2-4 inch x 16 foot nylon slings with a spreader bar to cradle it off the truck and swing it with one hand to the slab. Then simply set it down on 2x4 scraps the dealer set it on on the truck so I could get the straps under it to facilitate getting the straps out from under it and viola, done.
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That was kind of a diss to me ST but I have been purchasing tools and equipment for 3 different mechanical contractors for the last 22 years. The fact that I was not afraid to make my own delivery and even wanted to, should tell you that moving a hot tub for a guy in my industry was an easy one. I have machinery movers capable of moving up to 100 tons that can be steered, I have air cushion movers also up to 20 ton capacity, carts big and small and of every capacity imaginable, for everything from mud to concrete surfaces to non marring. When the question was asked I answered honestly. I appreciate your advice to others, but to under your breath say my tub move was not professional was wrong. I used a lift gate and a truck boom from the flat bed to the pad I built with 2 buds helping me swing it and position it. 2-4 inch x 16 foot nylon slings with a spreader bar to cradle it off the truck and swing it with one hand to the slab. Then simply set it down on 2x4 scraps the dealer set it on on the truck so I could get the straps under it to facilitate getting the straps out from under it and viola, done.
Roger,
You are the exception to the rule. Sounds to me like you MORE than had the right tools, and the know-how to do this. Just about every single customer of mine who has tried this on their own has had disasterous results. 'Course, I have yet to have a customer with any of the tools you mention: they usually just borrow or rent a pickup truck, a furniture dolly and then bring five friends over who each consume some minimum-requirement of adult beverages prior to starting the move...
BTW the spa dolly mentioned above is wonderful. I have three of them for sale: we are trying to upgrade to the newer version.
(http://www.spadolly.com/184d8190.jpg)
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That was kind of a diss to me ST... The fact that I was not afraid to make my own delivery and even wanted to, should tell you that moving a hot tub for a guy in my industry was an easy one. I appreciate your advice to others, but to under your breath say my tub move was not professional was wrong.
Relax, Tman- ;) my post wasnt out to 'diss' you or to claim what you did was unprofessional. Many consumers will pick up and install their own hot tub- And how you chose to get it done is fine- the dynamic though, is quite different when its someone that IS doing work in the industry, claims to be a spa professional while they neither possess the equipment nor experience to do the job right. Anyone who skid/humps a spa across a customers yard on cardboard in my view is totally fair game. THEY are the target of my ire and scrutiny, not you. :'( Sorry if I offended you.
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We rent one of our spa dolly's out to the "do it yourself" crowd with an insurance and liability waiver.
That being said, no amount of common sense or similar experience is going to teach you where you can lift or not lift and where you can push or not push from brand to brand and model to model. There is a far greater potential for a novice to damage the spa than not.
I have used contractors many times in the past and would use them again if I could find someone with the same vision and ethics that I try to instill in my own employees. If a contractor is used then the dealership needs to be on the phone to the customer before, during and after the delivery to make sure things are handled. The contractors job is to install the equipment with skill, the dealerships job is to instill the confidence with customer service......
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I saw pictures of a spa riding the rails of a dodge pickup to who knows where and then getting slid down off the rails with some boards to the ground. I think you know who?
Forgiven ST. I was having a bad day. The camper is winterized, all the batterys are out and stored, the lower unit on the boat is drained, and all it's batterys removed, it's blocked up off the wheels and the 2 are side by side awaiting my winter tarp to hold them safe under the multitudes of snow storms that are about to engulf Northern Minnesota. It hasn't stopped raining for what seems months, the grouse hunting trails and roads to them are mud ruts that seem bottomless. And we are very busy at work, thank god for the soaks after work.
And I am about sick of this presidential thing everyones talking about.
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I saw pictures of a spa riding the rails of a dodge pickup to who knows where and then getting slid down off the rails with some boards to the ground. I think you know who?
Forgiven ST. I was having a bad day. The camper is winterized, all the batterys are out and stored, the lower unit on the boat is drained, and all it's batterys removed, it's blocked up off the wheels and the 2 are side by side awaiting my winter tarp to hold them safe under the multitudes of snow storms that are about to engulf Northern Minnesota. It hasn't stopped raining for what seems months, the grouse hunting trails and roads to them are mud ruts that seem bottomless. And we are very busy at work, thank god for the soaks after work.
And I am about sick of this presidential thing everyones talking about.
Sky is blue... Grass is green....
Breath in..... Breath out......
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And I am about sick of this presidential thing everyones talking about.
AMEN Brother!!! I'm so glad I don't live in a swing state, glad I wasn't in New Mexico to watch TV!!!
:P
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AMEN Brother!!! I'm so glad I don't live in a swing state, glad I wasn't in New Mexico to watch TV!!!
:P
Last night in prime time TV, I only saw one commercial that wasn't politicial and I can't even remember what it was. Some of the commercials on the local level were so bad you just want to hunt down the authors and ........ Well, I better not put that in writing. 6:30 am this morning 250 people in line, and no place to park!
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I live in a swing state. It's been interesting to say the least. I'm just glad to be rid of those non stop adds.
I swear last night that's all that was on TV.
Stop the madness!!!
Brewman
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I live in a swing state.
Wow....a state full of swingers!.....groooovy man!.....sounds like hot tub heaven! ;D ;D
The best TV tonight will be The Daily Show with Jon Stewart on Comedy Central at 10:00 p.m. EST. He's doing it live so it should be a real hoot.......
8)
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JS makes politics fun dosen't he?
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Our worst adds have been for the Senate Seat. Sheesh, I'll be glad when they quit running the ads here. Last night, this morning, and even on the radio, all day long, they are about the only things running. I'll be happy when the inane car commercials are the most irritating ads on!!! ;D
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Best political satire this year so far was last weeks South Park episode..........classic. Thank god I don't live in a swing state. It looks like its gonna be another barn burner like back in 2000............
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Best political satire this year so far was last weeks South Park episode..........classic. Thank god I don't live in a swing state. It looks like its gonna be another barn burner like back in 2000............
I'm with you there!!! It was a great one!
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I saw pictures of a spa riding the rails of a dodge pickup to who knows where and then getting slid down off the rails with some boards to the ground. I think you know who?.
Yes, I know who. And if memory serves me it was a delivery he and the wife rendered complete with electrical hookup in New Mexico.
Pictures I sure enjoy sharing, along with the ones of that delivery where he and the wife schlep the spa off a flat bed onto a homemade cart with wheels only slightly larger than a skate boards, traverse the uneven landscape through a slalom of trees, over their rotating (ala "walk like an Egyptian") plywood sidewalk and down their styrofoam bridge...
Its truly a thing of beauty when you can coerse the fairer sex into manhandling a 500 pound spa, and certainly impressive when you can manage to remain married to them at the same time. ;)
(Jeeze, what am I doing wrong? I cant even get anyone to fetch me a beer while they're up... :-/)
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(Jeeze, what am I doing wrong? I cant even get anyone to fetch me a beer while they're up... :-/)
Jim has the fear factor working for him as we've discovered.