Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: suzieq on October 28, 2004, 04:59:02 pm
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I have a question for the dealer of Dimension One tubs. I'd like to send a PM to somone about my question, but do not know who the dealers are on this forum.
Thanks.
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I can name four D-1 dealers. Myself, Stuart, Wetone and Poolboy34. PM away!
Why not ask your question so that everyone can learn?
HotTubMan
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Hi Guys,
Sorry it took so long to get back to this. I didn't realize what time it was when I started the thread and I had a wake to attend tonight. Sorry.
I asked about sending a PM because my question has to do with pricing and I kind of got the impression that pricing was a touchy subject here. But since you said to go ahead and ask in the public thread, here it is.
We looked at a D-1 Chairman and Diplomat and have scheduled a wet test on both tubs. How much of a difference in price is there between the shell with the lifetime warranty and the one with the 7 year warranty?
Thanks and if you don't want to post that info, send me a PM.
Sue.
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This will sound odd but, UltraLife is usually less expensive than the "Pearl Essecents" shells. We don't charge an upgrade for UltraLife as we think it is the best way to go :)
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This will sound odd but, UltraLife is usually less expensive than the "Pearl Essecents" shells. We don't charge an upgrade for UltraLife as we think it is the best way to go :)
Really? That does sound odd. I mean I would be getting a slightly "lesser" quality material and a shorter warranty, but not pay less (or more for the better shell)?
Hmmm....
The problem is that I don't like the white at all. It will show any dirt that might get in the tub, my guess is that there will be a "ring" of sorts over time, and I would also think that it would be more likely to stain if something gets spilled - like red wine, maybe?
Interesting...............
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This will sound odd but, UltraLife is usually less expensive than the "Pearl Essecents" shells. We don't charge an upgrade for UltraLife as we think it is the best way to go :)
Stuart is right UL is the better material. So why doesn't it cost more? Simple, economies of scale. If I was to start spa manufacturing tomorrow, thermal plastic would most certainly cost me more to produce.
HTM
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So....are you telling me that I could actually pay MORE for the "Pearl Essecents" shell? Or that they would be the same price?
Stop laughing........I'm BLONDE, OK? ?
LOL ;D
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The reason the Platinum and Blue Galaxy shells cost more then the Ultralife is due to the fact that the material they are made out of is more expensive at this time b/c it's not in high demand yet. D-1 just started offering the weatherpro shells on it's reflections line of spas this year, so i would say withing a year or two all of the shell options will be the same price. The Granitex and ultra-life shells *should* be the same price, I know they are for us. As for the staining - The white doesn't stain like people think or will lead you to believe. The ultra-life shell is a non-textured non-slip surface that is VERY easy to clean. Have your dealer show you how easy it is to clean. BTW both of those spas are good choices. You might want to also check out the chairman II as well b/c it offers a lot more bang for your buck, and isn't all that much more then the chairman.
Jason,
Store manager for a D-1 & Caldera Spas Dealer
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Really? That does sound odd. I mean I would be getting a slightly "lesser" quality material and a shorter warranty, but not pay less (or more for the better shell)?
Hmmm....
The problem is that I don't like the white at all. It will show any dirt that might get in the tub, my guess is that there will be a "ring" of sorts over time, and I would also think that it would be more likely to stain if something gets spilled - like red wine, maybe?
Interesting...............
One of the things I explain to many customers is that I'm getting into this thing naked (just pretend I look like Tom Cruise, it will make it easier ;)) so I pretty much want to know if it's dirty! Why on earth would anyone want to "hide" dirt in a spa? Just because you can't see the scum line doesn't mean its not there.....
UltraLife will not stain, in fact it's guaranteed to not stain, red wine or not! Besides, white looks much cooler with the lights!
Here's another thought, the color of major appliances has gone from white to harvest gold, back to white, then to avocado, back to white, then to black, back to white, then to stainless and finally back to white. See a trend here? A spa is a major appliance.....
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I'm not a D1 dealer, and I don't play one on TV. But I sell HotSpring spas, and they offer a white thermoplastic shell. It is not harder to live with. This material is not porus like a fabric or other product - so it doesn't absorb stains. If it shows dirt more, most peopl find that to be a plus: if you can see the dirt, you can wipe if off. If you can't see it, it gets into the water and clouds things up.
No matter what color you end up with, you are not going to want to let dirty people around it or in it....
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Hi Jason,
We looked at the Chairman II but the dealer said it was $1000 more than the regular Chairman and the "sports seat" and the extra movable headrest isn't worth the extra $$. At least I don't think so.
Does the $1K sound right to you?
Sue.......Hot Tub Owner to be. ;D
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One of the things I explain to many customers is that I'm getting into this thing naked (just pretend I look like Tom Cruise, it will make it easier ;)) so I pretty much want to know if it's dirty! Why on earth would anyone want to "hide" dirt in a spa? Just because you can't see the scum line doesn't mean its not there.....
UltraLife will not stain, in fact it's guaranteed to not stain, red wine or not! Besides, white looks much cooler with the lights!
Here's another thought, the color of major appliances has gone from white to harvest gold, back to white, then to avocado, back to white, then to black, back to white, then to stainless and finally back to white. See a trend here? A spa is a major appliance.....
I never thought about it (not you looking like Tom) but you're right. If I saw the dirt I would clean it right away, if I didn't then..................
And the lights would show up better on white............
An appliance? Hmmmmmm.............will it make dinner too?
Thanks for the info.....it all makes sense.
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Hi Jason,
We looked at the Chairman II but the dealer said it was $1000 more than the regular Chairman and the "sports seat" and the extra movable headrest isn't worth the extra $$. At least I don't think so.
Does the $1K sound right to you?
Sue.......Hot Tub Owner to be. ;D
SuzieQ;
You left out one very important feature on the Chairman II, the dynamic jet sequencer. IMHO that feature alone is worth the extra $1K, let alone the other features you mentioned.
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SuzieQ;
You left out one very important feature on the Chairman II, the dynamic jet sequencer. IMHO that feature alone is worth the extra $1K, let alone the other features you mentioned.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. It was nice.
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Well, I gotta get going.
Thanks for the information and I'll let you know what we decide to do.
later.........
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I'm not a D1 dealer, and I don't play one on TV. But I sell HotSpring spas, and they offer a white thermoplastic shell. It is not harder to live with. This material is not porus like a fabric or other product - so it doesn't absorb stains. If it shows dirt more, most peopl find that to be a plus: if you can see the dirt, you can wipe if off. If you can't see it, it gets into the water and clouds things up.
No matter what color you end up with, you are not going to want to let dirty people around it or in it....
I'm a D1 Salesman but have played a HotSpring salesman on TV! :D
Chas buddy,
Remember the old day's when all we had to sell was white spas? And these guy's think they have it tough!
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Yup yup yup.
In fact, I remember Ivory. "the water looks a little green."
"It's supposed to look that way."
Oh yeah.
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Three comments:
1 "LifetimeWarranty" = 7 years in most states;
2 The "Dynamic Sequencer" on the Chairman II consists of solenoid valves housed in fragile plastic (every one of them leaked in my showroom and had to be fixed). The regular Chairman is a better buy IMO.
3 The white shell will help you see the condition of your water better than a colored shell.
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Three comments:
1 "LifetimeWarranty" = 7 years in most states;
I'm sorry to hear that you have to go to the state government to handel your warranty claims. I've never seen D1 deny a claim that was valid yet! BTW, the terms of the warranty change after 7 years and is, in sense, not the same warranty so you would have a prosecutable claim if it really did come down to that. Also, what does the brand you sell offer after 7 years?
2 The "Dynamic Sequencer" on the Chairman II consists of solenoid valves housed in fragile plastic (every one of them leaked in my showroom and had to be fixed). The regular Chairman is a better buy IMO.
The "Dynamic Sequencer" is basically a series of sprinkler valves that are used in every yard in the country. Sounds like we should all expect a sudden failure of our sprinkler systems soon! Oh and the last time I looked, the Sequencer valves were attached to the shell not the “cheap plastic housing” and had a polymer shroud around them for protection. What did you expect the shroud to be made of, Titanium? I've sold around 100 of them this year alone, I have between 25 and 30 spas on my showroom floor at any given time, at least 3-5 of which are full and most of those have "Dynamic Sequencer" seats. I did have a Lotus Bay leak this year on the floor but it turned out to be a drain valve one of my guy's installed wrong.
D1 offers a 60 day unconditional replacement to any dealer that has a leak in the plumbing in the first 60 days and follows the terms of the warranty from there on out!
I personally like the regular Chairman and the Californian – same power package, less jets, less plumbing, more intense!
3 The white shell will help you see the condition of your water better than a colored shell.
On this point, we agree.......
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You gettem tiger!
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That was the main reason I asked my question.
I printed out the D-1 warranty and actually read it ! It says that the Lifetime warranty tub after 7 years has to be shipped back to the factory (in California I think) for repair or replacement. ALL shipping costs are paid for by the customer.
The Granitex tubs come with the same 7 year warranty. But after the 7 years, you pay for the repair as well. You still have to ship it to the factory and pay the shipping both ways. So what's the big advantage? I don't pay for the repair? So what. If the cost to repair is that great, then it would probably be better to buy another one anyway since shipping (from east coast to west coast) is going to be out of this world anyway and probably not worth having the repair made whether it's covered or not.
That is why I was hoping for a lower price on the non lifetime material. The warranty is basically the same for both.
8)
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On the sequencers that leaked in my showroom (all of them, as I said) I found that the factory had over-torqued one or more of the mounting screws cracking the plastic which caused the leaking. This could just have been a bad batch of spas -- Diplomats and Chairman IIs.
The factory refused to pay for the new carpeting, so I dropped the D1 line several months ago and am selling Catalina spas which have had no factory defects and no customer complaints (over 200 sold).
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hmmmmmmmmm.....call me crazy, but last i checked the diplomat DOES NOT come with the Dynamic Massage sequencer. And I can't ever recall having a sequencer leak on one of our show room floors. And considering that the selenoid valves are fastened with unions, I find it difficult to believe that the "mounting" screws were overtorqued.
As for the limited lifetime warranty - here's the skinny. D-1 also has a sub-plant in Ohio. This is where the spas would be shipped after 7 years IF there was a problem with the shell. The dealership I work for has been on board with D-1 for 18+ years, and in that time they've only had ONE spa with an ultralife shell develop a leak. The customer paid the freight one way to ohio, then D-1 sent them a NEW spa at no extra charge to the customer, and this was after the 7 year period was up.
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That was the main reason I asked my question.
I printed out the D-1 warranty and actually read it ! It says that the Lifetime warranty tub after 7 years has to be shipped back to the factory (in California I think) for repair or replacement. ALL shipping costs are paid for by the customer.
That’s right, after 7 years shipping costs are paid by the customer. Let's create a hypothetical situation here, you by a new spa and it works fine for 7 years suddenly you go out and there are a million little cracks or blisters or it's turned orange or whatever, your $7000 spa is ruined! But wait, you bought a D1 with UltraLife! Now you can replace the entire tub for around $500 of shipping! How cool is that? Guess what you would do with most other brands after that scenario? We just did a foam dig on an older spa from a very respected manufacture to repair a crack on the shell from the back of the shell. The cost of this is going to be close to $800 and it could crack again, it's still the same old spa. Had it been a D1 with UltraLife it would have been replaced!
There is something with spa materials called "Micro Crazing" that can cause hundreds of tiny fractures in the shell. It's not all spas but the potential exists for all spas and I've seen it a lot in my years in the industry, especially if the bar top is exposed to the sun for long periods. When this happens you cannot repair it so your out of luck. I kinda think it's nice that a manufacture gives me the piece of mind to not worry about things like that.
The Granitex tubs come with the same 7-year warranty. But after the 7 years, you pay for the repair as well. You still have to ship it to the factory and pay the shipping both ways. So what's the big advantage? I don't pay for the repair? So what. If the cost to repair is that great, then it would probably be better to buy another one anyway since shipping (from east coast to west coast) is going to be out of this world anyway and probably not worth having the repair made whether it's covered or not.
That is why I was hoping for a lower price on the non-lifetime material. The warranty is basically the same for both.
8)
I hope that I've established the fact that it is not the same warranty. Understand that if your spa has to go back and all they need to do is fix it as opposed to replace it they make sure you get your moneys worth. They recondition the entire spa!
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Very Well Stated!!
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Remember the old day's when all we had to sell was white spas? And these guy's think they have it tough!
I remember when we used to take a filter lid and whack it on the spa shell to demo the strength. Boy, the good ole' days.
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I remember when we used to take a filter lid and whack it on the spa shell to demo the strength. Boy, the good ole' days.
Are you an old "Dog Dish" warrior too? Actually your probably younger.....we used baseball bats before that!
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Hey Stuart relax....................I am meerly asking some questions. And since most people do not read the warranty they are suprised when "Lifetime" doesn't exactly mean "Lifetime". Also, the warranty says that the tub will be repaired or replaced at D-1's discression so you can not say that the tub will be replaced with a NEW one 100% of the time.
Anyway, we are wet testing tomorrow. I'll keep you posted.
Sue.
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Hey Stuart relax....................I am meerly asking some questions. And since most people do not read the warranty they are suprised when "Lifetime" doesn't exactly mean "Lifetime". Also, the warranty says that the tub will be repaired or replaced at D-1's discression so you can not say that the tub will be replaced with a NEW one 100% of the time.
Anyway, we are wet testing tomorrow. I'll keep you posted.
Sue.
What you say here is true to some degree, but the fact is acrylic is never covered longer than 7 years by any manufacturer. When and if it does need repair after that you are on your own 100%. At least D-1 will fix it if you get it to them. As Stuart and Poolboy stated it still MIGHT NOT cost you anything.
BTW, I know CalSpa has 10 years on acrylic, but I think we all know how easy it is to get that fixed......
HTM
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Hey Stuart relax....................I am meerly asking some questions. And since most people do not read the warranty they are suprised when "Lifetime" doesn't exactly mean "Lifetime". Also, the warranty says that the tub will be repaired or replaced at D-1's discression so you can not say that the tub will be replaced with a NEW one 100% of the time.
Anyway, we are wet testing tomorrow. I'll keep you posted.
Sue.
:-[Sorry, didn't mean to sound so intense over that! Just wanted you to have the right train of thought on the warranty.
If you read the little quote next to my name it says, " common sense is not so common" - I truly believe that we overlook the obvious so often because we're looking for something deeper that doesn't exist. Have a great wet test and if nothing else, notice the warm, leather like feel of the UltraLife as opposed to the cold hardness of the acrylic.
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My 2003 Diplomats had the dynamic sequencer in the corner seat. I guess D1 has dropped this option. Could it be because of their repeated failures? Nah.
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Are you an old "Dog Dish" warrior too? Actually your probably younger.....we used baseball bats before that!
"Dog Dish" yup. I've been selling HS off & on since '89 or so ( off & on meaning going away to clooge / military etc.. so I missed out on the ivory Rovel. I have an 89 sov with a tip top. My 4 yr old twins love it cuz they can get up on the spa and dance. ( and dad doesnt freak out )
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Sue, I carried D-1 for a while and didnt have any major problems. I think the sequencer was/is an awesome feature. To sit in front of it was amazing.
"The opinions expressed here are not neccessarily those expressed by the management... and any descriptions of accounts without the expressed written permission of the Chicago National League ballclub are prohibited."
(batteries not included )
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Thanks guys.
I realize that when one reads these posts they put their own "tone of voice" into what they are reading and I didn't think anyone was trying to argue with me. I really like the D-1 seating and the Jet positions.
And yes the warranty is one of the best, if not the best, in the industry.
Thanks for your help.
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My 2003 Diplomats had the dynamic sequencer in the corner seat. I guess D1 has dropped this option. Could it be because of their repeated failures? Nah.
It's pretty amazing how "we" as humans get so defensive when someone says something we don't agree with.
Really not needed.
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Thanks guys.
I realize that when one reads these posts they put their own "tone of voice" into what they are reading and I didn't think anyone was trying to argue with me. I really like the D-1 seating and the Jet positions.
And yes the warranty is one of the best, if not the best, in the industry.
Thanks for your help.
Hey let us know how it goes! BTW, I really don't look like Tom Cruise.....sorry....... 8)
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Hey let us know how it goes! BTW, I really don't look like Tom Cruise.....sorry....... 8)
Darn, and I was gonna ask for your phone number !!
LOL ;D ;D ;D
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Topcat,
I don't know what D-1 spas you were selling in 2003, but the ones we sold the diplomat did not have a DMS in the corner seat. The DMS is available ONLY in the lounges of the Chairman II & Triad II, and previously in the Aurora XLT (which was discontinued after 2002). It is also available in the Bay Series spas. Please, we don't mind educated criticism and opinions on this board, but please don't make false statements as it makes all of us in the industry look bad.
Jason,
Store manager for a D-1 and Caldera Spas Dealer
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Topcat,
I don't know what D-1 spas you were selling in 2003, but the ones we sold the diplomat did not have a DMS in the corner seat. The DMS is available ONLY in the lounges of the Chairman II & Triad II, and previously in the Aurora XLT (which was discontinued after 2002). It is also available in the Bay Series spas. Please, we don't mind educated criticism and opinions on this board, but please don't make false statements as it makes all of us in the industry look bad.
Jason,
Store manager for a D-1 and Caldera Spas Dealer
Applause
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Ditto. I'm a D-1 dealer and owner of a Sarena Bay in my own backyard. Absolutely love my DMS (2 of them in the Sarena Bay) and my white Ultralife shell. I, too, thought I might prefer a colored shell, but boy am I glad I went with the Ultralife. Clean water looks so nice and inviting in the white shell, and at night I can make my spa whatever color I want with the LED lighting--red, green, blue, purple, etc. Diplomats with DMS? Not in our stores! Side note--we are also a Cal Spa dealer and have never had an ounce of trouble getting a cracked or blistered spa replaced or repaired under warranty in 15+ years. The freight to and from the factory was not included though. Usually no more than $400 total cost for us to pick up the spa, shipping to and from the factory, and redelivery of new spa. Very reasonable I think.
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Hi...
That is good to hear about Cal Spas....after carrying them for 15 years....Enjoy The D-1 thats in YOUR yard.... ;)
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Suzieq,
I'm a Marquis dealer but have a great deal of respect for the D-1 spas. We also sell a white shell material that I have had at home for 3 years and cleanliness is a non-issue.
Concerning the cost of the ultralife white material compared to colored shells is simply this: D-1 sells more of the ultralife. They have done this for many years and overtime, due to that business relationship, and the quantity they purchase, it cost them less so they can offer a better price.
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Yes, my 7 year old Cal Spa has a 10 year warranty on the shell which now has about 13 blisters in it. Cal Spa is giving me a major run around concerning the repair. These people have the worst customer relations of any company I have ever dealt with.
Although my warranty specifically states they are to repair the spa at my home with a "Factory Authorized Sevice Agent", they are expecting me to have the spa disconnected, craned out of my yard and trucked to them (minimum $1,000 cost) for "inspection". No guarantee that they can or will repair it, just inspect it. I think we all know what the outcome of this inspection will be. I would then have to pay to get it shipped back and reinstalled (another $1,000) probably unrepaired.
This is the most absurd thing I have ever heard of.
If they had a lick of sense, wouldn't it make more sense to just send a tech. out to look at it? Perhaps that is just too complex for their little customer service minds.
For more Cal Spa horror, read my previous post "Take My Cal Spa...please".