Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: lizzie on October 27, 2004, 02:01:42 pm
-
we're looking at a jacuzzi j-345 and a hot springs prodigy as both dealers a local. any suggestions? want to buy one this weekend
-
Wet test and you will know which one to pick. Both are good choices.
-
I agree with HotTubMan.
-
wet tested both J-345 and hot springs prodigy, but still can't decide.
-
For the record, I think Jacuzzi makes and inferior product compared to Hotspring.
My reasons are as follows:
The Hotspring has a better warranty on the jets. 5 years versus 1 year for the Jacuzzi.
The Hotspring has a better warranty on the cabinet. 5 years versus 1 year for the Jacuzzi.
The warranty for the heater, pumps, electronic controls, and motors for both brands are 5 years. However, the Hotspring has an unconditional 5 year warranty on the heater. Jacuzzi does not have an unconditional warranty on the heater.
In my opinion, the filtration the Hotspring is also much better.
On a spa with water on your dealer’s showroom floor, I recommend you to take the cartridges out for both brands. What you will notice is that some oils and debris will fall out of the cartridge for both brands. The Hotspring has a nice little weir door that will not allow that debris to be exposed to the rest of the spa. Unfortunately, the Jacuzzi Premium does not have the nice little weir door, and the debris gets exposed to the rest of the spa. Clean water is pretty important to me.
-
I agree that both are good choices. I agree with Chris that Hot Spring would have the edge. I have a 1989 Hot Spring and it is still going strong.
-
When shopping I looked at Jacuzzi. The only impression I had was that the waterfall thing on the jacuzzi looked like it would fall off with one sharp blow.
I have a Hot Springs and love it. Very reputable tub from a very reputable company.
Sundance is also a very reputable company. Since a buyout a while ago Jacuzzi is owned by Sundance and they may share some components (lots of discussion on this here).
If there is a Sundance near you, check it out as one more thing to look at.
If it were between the Hot Springs and the jacuzzi, I would say all things equal, get the Hot Springs.
-Ed
-
Naaaaa Sundance did not buy Jacuzzi.The Jacuzzi J-315-J345s are Sweetwaters that are the cheaper Sundances and the Jacuzzis J355-J385 are more like the Sundances...the upper Jacuzzis start from $6000 and goes up from there.Jt
-
I love how Jacuzzis "are Sweetwaters that are the cheaper Sundances" up to the model Johnny got and from HIS model on up they are top notch. I think I met him once on a street corner selling ROLLECKS watches out of his trenchcoat.
-
Hi Lizzie,
I took delivery of a Jacuzzi J-345 October 5. Loving it so far. I was in the exact same position as you. I have owned a Hot Springs Classic, and a Hot Spot.
In comparing the Prodigy, it's a much smaller tub (shorter as well). Jacuzzi's jetting compared to the Prodigy only, I believe has more options. With Jacuzzi, you can add air to the line, which makes them incredibly powerful, or just have the water coming out. I opted for the LED Light, CD Ozone, and Cover lifter. I don't regret my choice one bit, because my previous tubs have all been too small. At 7x7, the 345 is a perfect size fo us.
I must heartily disagree with Chris H. My warranty card says, and it's right in front of me "5 years equipment and controls" "5 years plumbing components"
No problem at all with the water fall, and I have 5-8 year old kids in it all the time.
yes, Jacuzzi owns Sundance and Sweetwater, but from my experience, Jacuzzi offers great value for the money. The Prodigy here can be slightly less, to $ 1000-$1500 more depending on the equipment you put on it. and I don't think that 4 adults would be remotely comfortable in it. It would be a nice choice however if it's just a 2 person situation.
My two cents worth....
-
The HotSprings EE models are probably the best built and most reliable spa on the market. If your wet test didn't swing you one way or the other, I would chose the HotSpring.
-
Mark35:
Unfortunately, you are completely wrong. Since I hate when people tell me that I am incorrect, lets break down the Jacuzzi Premium warranty.
It specifically states in your warranty in the “Equipment and Controls” section the items that are included in the 5-year warranty. Those items are “specifically the pumps, heater, air blower and control systems are warranted against malfunctions due to defects in workmanship or materials for five years from the original date of purchase.”
This DOES NOT include the jets or cabinet. Those items have a separate warranty.
It specifically states in your warranty in the “Plumbing Components” section that your spa is warranted against leaks due to defects in workmanship or materials for five years from the original date of purchase.
This would include the glue, the pvc piping, and all fittings. This DOES NOT include your jets or your cabinet. As stated before, those items have a separate warranty.
It also says in the second sentence in the “Plumbing Components”section that “The light lenses, fuses, headrests, CABINET FINISH and filter are warranted to be free of defects in workmanship and materials at the time of delivery.”
Your cabinet has a warranty at the time of delivery. Not even one year. I guess I was wrong on that one.
It also says in the third sentence in the “Plumbing Components” section that “All other factory-installed components not mentioned SPECIFICALLY are warranted against malfunction due to defects in workmanship and materials for one year from the original date of purchase.”
This would include your jets. They would have a one-year warranty.
Also, do you think you need another copy of the warranty? I am sure I can get one for you.
Have a great day!
Chris H
-
No problem at all with the water fall, and I have 5-8 year old kids in it all the time.
I'm sorry, does this mean you have 5 children that are 8 yrs old that use it or that you have children ranging in age from 5-8. just curious.
-
Ok this has gotten childish........Can we please as professionals let customers choose spas on what they feel is RIGHT for THEM!!!! And can we as professionals stick to giving customers good, non-biased advice based on facts and educated opinions w/o having to badmouth all of the companies out there to make a point!?!?!?!?!?! What ever happened to giving good customer service before, during and most importantly AFTER the sale?????????
-
I'm sorry, does this mean you have 5 children that are 8 yrs old that use it or that you have children ranging in age from 5-8. just curious.
or does it mean you have some where between 5 and 8 children but cannot count that fast or that high?
-
Poolboy,
Call it childish if you please, but I try to make sure my posts are accurate. I was merely defending my original post, which was correct except for the cabinet warranty. Unfortunately, I was incorrect in stating the warranty for the cabinet was one year.
Stating the warranty is not biased, opinionated, or badmouthing a product. It is stating facts about the product.
Chris H
-
I thought the "childish" comment was directed at me. To which I would say that I think that things here get way too serious at times. I enjoy helping those that truly are asking questions and are seeking our advice. However, I think that injecting humor is never a bad thing. Humor is something that is missing in alot of todays business world. Being funny and professional are not mutually exclusive. So Nahhhhhhhhhhhh :P
Crap, I tripped while I was getting down from my soapbox.....
-
Mark35:
Unfortunately, you are completely wrong. Since I hate when people tell me that I am incorrect, lets break down the Jacuzzi Premium warranty.
It specifically states in your warranty in the “Equipment and Controls” section the items that are included in the 5-year warranty. Those items are “specifically the pumps, heater, air blower and control systems are warranted against malfunctions due to defects in workmanship or materials for five years from the original date of purchase.”
This DOES NOT include the jets or cabinet. Those items have a separate warranty.
It specifically states in your warranty in the “Plumbing Components” section that your spa is warranted against leaks due to defects in workmanship or materials for five years from the original date of purchase.
This would include the glue, the pvc piping, and all fittings. This DOES NOT include your jets or your cabinet. As stated before, those items have a separate warranty.
It also says in the second sentence in the “Plumbing Components”section that “The light lenses, fuses, headrests, CABINET FINISH and filter are warranted to be free of defects in workmanship and materials at the time of delivery.”
Your cabinet has a warranty at the time of delivery. Not even one year. I guess I was wrong on that one.
It also says in the third sentence in the “Plumbing Components” section that “All other factory-installed components not mentioned SPECIFICALLY are warranted against malfunction due to defects in workmanship and materials for one year from the original date of purchase.”
This would include your jets. They would have a one-year warranty.
Also, do you think you need another copy of the warranty? I am sure I can get one for you.
Have a great day!
Chris H
Chris, ok, grand puba of hot tubs, you're right. Does that make you feel better ? By the way, if you're a dealer, I'm the guy that never came back to your store becuase of your arrogance about your own brand of tub.
If you're an individual, get a life. Why do you need to go through other manufacturers warranties.
-
so lizzie, any closer to making the decision on which tub to buy this weekend?
You've choosen two reputable, quality brands of tubs - ultimately the answer can only come from your personal preferences. Don't forget to consider how you feel about each dealer, often times that can play a big part in the decision.
-
“Chris, ok, grand puba of hot tubs, you're right. Does that make you feel better?”
It does make me feel better. Thanks for asking.
“If you're an individual, get a life.”
I have both a little dealer and individual in me, but I still have no life. Look to your left it says I am an ultimate member. Ultimate members have no life.
“Why do you need to go through other manufacturers warranties.”
I read the warranties to inform the consumer on them because most don’t understand the language in them. Many, if not most, consumers believe a 5-year component warranty to mean every component and unfortunately most manufacturers don’t include every component. I am just trying to show the differences. Ever read a Cal Spa warranty? It has more holes than the drain on the bottom of a Hotspring spa.
“By the way, if you're a dealer, I'm the guy that never came back to your store because of your arrogance about your own brand of tub.”
This and my second response were designed to be arrogant. I do try my hardest for every sale, but sometimes you just can’t get them all. I sell the most technologically advanced spa on the market, it is at least 10 years ahead of those full foam spas made in California. It is too bad you aren’t a proud Haven owner like myself.
In closing, sorry Lizzie for getting this thread off course.
Chris H
-
Chris, I aspire to be an Ultimate member and have no life. You are an inspiration to all of us that at one time or another have been called "arrogant".
If my butler were here I would have him tip my hat to you. Good show ole' boy. 8)
-
ChrisH;
I light of your comments here, I find it ironic that you are an Ultimate Member and..
"I just figured this personal text thing out..."
Priceless
:) ;) :D ;D
-
Lizzie
We looked for about a year and narrowed it down to Hot Springs, Jacuzzi, Sundance, and Beachcomber.
All are great hot tubs but after our wet tests we were sold on the Jacuzzi J385.
We have now had it for 6 great months. Our family of five loves it and our friends say it is the nicest hot tub they have ever been in.
The one thing that we did not like about the Hot Springs was that you could not have all the jets going at the same time.
Go with your gut and be careful of dealers selling their products on this and other forums.
If I would have listened to the likes of Chris H, I would have been scared off of Jacuzzi. Chris is a dealer and it is very evident that he is not as helpfull as a guy named Steve that can be found on this forum. He too does not sell Jacuzzi but I found his posts very accurate and helpfull. Fortunately I looked into it for my self and my wife and I made our own informed decision.
Both are great tubs and good luck with your decision.
-
leaning towards the hot springs prodigy, actually put money down, but still not sure. need a few brews tor margiraitta's to decide
-
yes, Jacuzzi owns Sundance and Sweetwater, but from my experience, Jacuzzi offers great value for the money.
Hey Mark35,
There is alot os misconception around this. I'll do some research to find out. When we all say "Jacuzzi" most of us mean "Jacuzzi Premium" who make hot tubs (built out of Sundance's factory, I believe). Sundance and Jacuzzi Premium are both owned by Jacuzzi, but Jacuzzi Premium does *not* own Sundance.
Popular wisdom says that Sundance is the higher-end tubs and Jacuzzi premium is the lower-end.
I have read on some places that the Home Depot spas are Jacuzzi Premium spas - the Gatsby model.
Not alot of facts in there, but it is probably worth the time to research it.
As for the waterfall:
(http://jacuzzipremium.com/Images/HomeWoman.jpg)
On the jacuzzi **I** looked it it sure as heck looked flimsy to me. Notice how the one in the picture is perfectly straight, level with the tub? The one in the dealer was angled down towards the water more, probably the result of someone resting elbows on it or someone (stupidly) using it as support when shifting about.
As for tubs, the Prodigy is a smaller tub. The Jacuzzi 345 is a larger tub. You would expect a price difference. Remember though that many items that influence your decision don't revolve around size (filtration, quality, warranty, dealer, wet test result).
I would also look at the Hot Springs Sovereign. My brother-in-law just got a sovereign from our Hot Springs dealer and it is a great spa. At the last family gathering we have 5 of the aunts in it and it was a hoot.
-Ed
-
The one thing that we did not like about the Hot Springs was that you could not have all the jets going at the same time.
Hold on there Canuck,
That is just patentedly untrue. Watch it as this is a customer who wet tests and can easily go back to the dealer and expose such fraud.
-Ed
-
Firstly, these are all opinions based on actual experience with the tubs that I've owned (unfortunately, 3 too many) As I'm now on tub #4, I figure I have a little bit of experience with them.
Ed, with regards to the waterfall, obviously I hope you're wrong. In my 345 last night, I tugged on the waterfall pretty good, and it didn't seem to be going anywhere.
Canuck, I also wet tested the 385, even though it was out of my price range. What an amazing tub. I would put that up against almost anything.
Again, I'll say like I have in other posts. In my market, Hot Spring is pricing themselves out of the market. They are charging upwards of $ 16K (reportedly) for a Grandee !! I believe the 385 in Canada is only $ 12K. I'm sorry it's not a $ 4K better tub.
As for the prodigy. Yes, I think that Hot Springs filtration is quite excellent, as are the jets. For me, I'm 6'1", so I need a deeper tub with a deep footwell to feel comfortable, so the Prodigy wasn't it for me, and that was the only tub in my price range from HS.
Again, these are all opinions after a ton of shopping (Just ask my wife), wet tests, and actual tub ownership of a Hot Spot, HS Classic, Beachcomber 530 and now Jacuzzi J-345.
As for the true tale of who owns what with regards to Jacuzzi, I don't really know. All I know is Sundance, Jacuzzi and Sweetwater are pretty solid tubs, as are Hot Springs and Tiger River.
YMMV
Mark
-
“ Ultimate members have no life.
I qenuinely disagree. :)
-
Jacuzzi Premium was created by Sundance who builds them and is wholly owned by Jacuzzi Brands Inc. They are different from the original Jacuzzi Spas built by Jacuzzi Whirlpool Baths and discontinued in 2002.
Sundance, and I would imagine JP also, includes the jet bodies in the plumbing components. The jets themselves, many of which are removable, are only warranted for two years (or less with JP and SW). They are relatively easy and not expensive to replace.
-
Hold on there Canuck,
That is just patentedly untrue. Watch it as this is a customer who wet tests and can easily go back to the dealer and expose such fraud.
-Ed
Actually on the Prodigy you cannot run every jet at the same time unless you put the diverter in a middle position which makes a tremendous amount of noise and at no point in the owners manual is this listed as a "position" as it is not designed to do that.
I hope your "patently wrong" is only "patent pending" ;)
-
Jacuzzi Premium was created by Sundance who builds them and is wholly owned by Jacuzzi Brands Inc. They are different from the original Jacuzzi Spas built by Jacuzzi Whirlpool Baths and discontinued in 2002.
Sundance, and I would imagine JP also, includes the jet bodies in the plumbing components. The jets themselves, many of which are removable, are only warranted for two years (or less with JP and SW). They are relatively easy and not expensive to replace.
Thanks Tony. I didn't think my warranty was quite as bad as made out on this board earlier. Intereresting about the Prodigy jet selector.
-
Actually on the Prodigy...
Canuck did not mention the Prodigy in his post. He/She referenced this as a problem for all Hot Springs spas, which really *is* patentedly untrue.
The Prodigy can run all jets with the diverters in the middle position. Yes, it is noisy (but not as noisy as some other tubs diverters) and the ability exists even if *gasp* it is not in the manual! 8)
-Ed
-
still can't decide and realy need help. price is exactly the same for both tubs including, steps, cover, coverlifter, start up chemicals and ozinator. my other half says it's my decision
-
In my market, Hot Spring is pricing themselves out of the market. They are charging upwards of $ 16K (reportedly) for a Grandee !! I believe the 385 in Canada is only $ 12K. I'm sorry it's not a $ 4K better tub.
I own a grandee and I paid around $8 (tax and all) for it. The 2004 quoted price for a grandee is around $10k with them actually going for around $8800-$9500 depending on location.
Maybe we are talking Canadian dollars, because your numbers up there don't make sense to me.
Any Hot Springs dealers on this board trying to sell a Grandee for $16,000??
-Ed
-
still can't decide and realy need help. price is exactly the same for both tubs including, steps, cover, coverlifter, start up chemicals and ozinator. my other half says it's my decision
Lizzie,
It is a big decision to make, but I don't know that the combination of salesmen and proud owners here will help with the subjective side of things.
I would try this:
1) Go back and wet test again. It is OKAY to wet test multiple times.
2) See how you feel about each dealer. They are the ones servicing your tub.
3) Hot Springs (my opinion, and I am a HS owner) is better, but pricier. The Jacuzzi certainly has more room.
Here are some questions to ask to see how each dealer responds. There is probably no right answer, other than your gut.
1) How much will my tub cost to run?
2) How long will my chemicals last?
3) What is the cost of replacement parts for parts < 5 years under warranty?
4) Do you do water testing?
5) Can I wet test again?
Questions 1 - 3 are subjective, based on usage and a bunch of other things, but maybe by looking at how each dealer responds to them you can get an idea of who makes you more comfortable.
If it is just the two of you, or maybe 1 or 2 more (but *not* 5) then get the Prodigy. If you entertain often, get the larger Jacuzzi. While I prefer HS, no-one is saying that the Jacuzzi tub is in any way a lemon.
If neither choice seems like anything other than a compromise, take a deep breath, step away from the research for a few weeks, or months, and save a little more and come back to the buying table with some more options available to you. Or wait to see when the sales are, or wait til the new 2005 models come out and get a 2004 model at a discount.
Best of Luck!
-Ed
-
I also believe that the items warrented at time of delivery, such as the light lenses, pillows, filters, etc are the replacable items and are most likely damaged from improper use or chemisty. And it does say CABINET FINNISH, not cabinet.
-
Tony,
I though most warranties covered pillows for a 1 year warranty on them. These will go over time, and some feel having an ozonator contributes to their demise.
I think on my tub pillows are $30-$40 to replace.
-Ed
-
lizzie
Maybe your brain is saying go with the hotspring and your heart says jacuzzi premium (or vice versa). Go with your heart.
You won't go wrong with either.
-
Ed
Sundance and JacuzziPremium both only warrant headrests at time of delivery. Mine are over two years old and still look good. I alway considered them to be an item that would have to be replaced sometime. The main part of the headrest will last a long time, I think. The little inserts in the centers look like they may need to be replaced sometime. If I recall, they are only about ten to twelve dollars each.
tony
-
The Prodigy can run all jets with the diverters in the middle position. Yes, it is noisy (but not as noisy as some other tubs diverters) and the ability exists even if *gasp* it is not in the manual! 8)
-Ed
I understand. As a HS dealer I just don't present it as they can run all the jets at the same time. If you follow the HS brainwashing, I mean selling system, they use the "Reality of everyday usage" as being able to have quiet zones where there are no jets running. That is the design. Putting the diverter in the middle is absolutely do-able. But having what I think sounds like stress on a diverter that wasnt designed to have water flowing through it that way isnt worth it.
As top shelf as Watkins is, I wish they would change the diverter valve to one that is much smoother to turn. When the jets are running they are the hardest diverter on my showroom floor.
-
It is not my intention to turn this into a great debate. Choice and preference is a wonderful thing. As a consumer I already made my choice and the Jacuzzi J385 was the perfect tub for our needs.
I should have specified that it was the Hot Springs Grandee that we wet tested. The salesman was extremely helpful and I almost felt bad for not buying his product. The two main deciding deciding factors were:
1) My wife floated out of the seats. Not really a Hot Springs problem just a lady thing.
2) We were told that if we had all the seats occupied, we would not be able to have all the jets on. The salesman explained that Hot Springs took into account that some people in the tub would not want jet action. I have found quite the opposite. Everyone likes 15 or 20 minutes of jet action, then shut all the pumps off and have a time of quiet conversation.
Hot Springs is a great tub but it just wasn't for us.
-
Canuck,
Thanks for clarifying. As a Grandee owner, however, I can tell you that on my 2004 tub with the diverter in the middle there is not alot of noise and all jets work.
If you move the diverter to an angled position (i.e. not 12,3,6, or 9) there is noise. But if it is "up and down" instead of "left and right" all seems to work very well.
Perhaps you tested a different model year.
-Ed