Hot Tub Forum
General => General info Somewhat hot tub related => Topic started by: bosco0633 on March 08, 2006, 11:25:38 pm
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Ok here I go with my rant as a consumer.
I sit here and think how the posts have been going as of late and feel that we need to clean up our act.
Here is what I have noticed over the past little bit
1. Consumers and dealers have to different approaches on this forum.
2. If a dealer or sales personnel does not like a particular brand, they let you know it by means other than coming right out and saying it. You know who you are, and you all know what you do.
3. Certain brands are slammed way more than others.
4. TP vs. FF debate has taken a hole new level here. Enough is enough.
5. When a consumer becomes defensive of their new product, Dealers alike suddenly change their tune in here. They comment such as "tell me where I bad mouthed" "I never said...." "dont get your panties in a bunch" "if you get defensive then you have something to worry about"
6. When called to task some dealers or sales guys become pure nasty and belittle. If you want quotes, I will search for them, because we all know they are here.
7. If a certain tub brand is mentioned in a post, all hell breaks lose.
8. WHEN SOMEONE HAS A PROBLEM WITH CERTAIN SPAS, DEALERS AND SALES GUYS COME OUT AND SAY, "THAT IS NOT NORMAL" "TELL ME YOUR MODEL NUMBER AND I CAN LOOK INTO IT FOR YOU" "YOU WILL BE COVERED NO PROBLEM FOR REPAIRS" If it is other brands, boom like fat kids on smarties slam slam slam slam, then back to numbers 5 6 and 7.
9. If someone posts something that certain people dont want to coment on, then these posts quickly disapear from the first page without comment. Example we want here. Ok, I decide to do a little home expierement on my tub which produced pretty good results in my opinion and the peanut gallery chooses not to come out and play. No usual TP haters come out and coment, and then the post disapears.
10. Dealers and sales alike are very informative about product knowledge. For this I am forever greatful.
11. Some dealers and sales individuals have recently decided to start posting that they are sick of our "bitching" "wining" "crying" about our tubs. They get nasty and tell us they are sick of it and they decide to cut us up.
12. If you own a sundance, hotsprings, or d1 here, you are treated fairly and with respect for making such an informed purchase. For the others, your an outcast.
Think I am wrong, I challenge you all to look at the first 10 pages of posts, and dont forget to go to beating a dead horse. Many posts make their way there due to the fact that certain brands have their name mentioned, and it is decided that it is time to get rid of it.
Dealers, and sales guys, you are entitled to bad days. You are entitled to your opinions as experts in this market. You are entitled to educate us, be brand specific and hold opinions on your competion. But at the end of the day, you need us, you need your customer base you need to sell your product. So relax, enjoy your time here, have fun and remember, most of us are new to this and we need you just as much as you need us.
Enough is enough here, this is just getting sad.
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I agree 100%! Very well said.
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Yep, I'd have to agree. Well said. But this goes on in the business I'm in on their forums, even worse! They get downright ugly. I've helped many a new businessman just starting out in my industry. I've gotten many nice emails. Thats what does it for me. Because I remember when I was in there shoes and I didn't have anyone to turn to for help. I'd get home around 3am. but back to this forum. In the short time I have been here, I have been helped by numerous people, that have pointed me in the right direction. Steve and Tom thanks. I also like the features of this forum. Being able to modify is nice. :)
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I have to pretty much agree, though obviously the wonderful advice, and different points of view and dynamic nature of the people on this forum keep me coming back anyway. Not to mention the humor. I am concerned about being seen differently because of the purchase choice I made, and though it is subtle, there is game-playing going on. Its too bad.
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I'll add this, had I found this forum before I purchased my hot tub, I probably wouldn't have bought one.
Maybe that is an extreme statement, but it is somewhat true because it seems some first time consumers, who have little knowledge, get more confused beause of the "competition".
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I wouldn't worry about that Anne. Think about all the people out there that don't have the luxury of one Or ever getting in one. Your lucky Anne.
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I'm relatively new to this site and I agree, certain brands (namely Arctic) are slammed. ??? ::) My neighbor bought an Arctic around the same time we bought ours (2003) and has had zero problems. She ribbed me each time she saw our dealers service van sitting in our driveway!
Another thing, I don't see any Arctic dealers posting 25-30 messages and pics during their work day - must be busy selling SPAS! ;)
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She ribbed me each time she saw our dealers service van sitting in our driveway!
I'll bite, what spa do you own that you've had all these service issues on (not that I doubt you, I'm just curious)?
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I'll bite, what spa do you own that you've had all these service issues on (not that I doubt you, I'm just curious)?
Hi Spatech - I own a 2003 Marquis Euphoria. I posted an earlier post about the problems I have had with it. Fortunately, Marquis is standing behind their product and is replacing our Euphoria with a new Epic. We get it delivered this Friday.
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The brand of tub we purchased is not well received here, but I do lurk and occasionally give input or ask general questions.
At times I know, I would not feel comfy asking about anything
that may come up, because of the way my brand has been received. I came to this site for help , and general insight, I must say, overall it is very helpful. Btw, I have had my tub for over 6 months now, no problems at all, and my dealer has been great. I know we made the right choice, for us, not saying every one has to agree, but it would be nice to not feel inferior to the people who have known, or been in the business for years. Just my two cents. This post is not meant, in any way, to offend or disrespect anyone, if so, I whole heartedly apologize.
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you know, I'd like to add that although I do think that Arctic gets slammed more than it deserves, I was impressed by the unbiased comments I got from a number of people a while back when I was down to choosing between an Arctic Summit and a HS Envoy. I was a tough choice, mostly since I was influenced by Arctic's "red headed step sister" position in the spa world. Nobody dissed Arctic, and everyone said to go with what feels right.
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Up until a few days ago when the dealer ranting started, I was really enjoying this site. I actually felt sorry for the dealers after the 1st post because sales is a tough job. Most small businesses fail so the successful ones are doing something right and working damned hard to do it.
So I decided not to respond to the unbridled consumer bashing, but I just couldn't sit by and let it go because it wouldn't go away. After the 3rd dealer rant thread, I lost control and responded to a particularly vicious post. I am sorry that I did because I am now part of the problem.
Before these threads started, everyone had their say and their opinion was respected.
No one slammed anyone else and if that did happen, they were taken to task, either by other members or the moderators.
We asked questions and for the most part got answers. And we were free to follow the advice or not.
As a consumer, I'm not sure what I did to make dealers so angry. Having never owned a hot tub, I shopped around for tubs trying to learn more about them. In the process I weeded out the ones that didn't have a chance (mostly because of the dealers), then wet tested the ones I liked and bought it (mostly because of the dealer).
Does that mean that Jacuzzi is the only tub worthwhile? Absolutely not. It means that of the stores I visited in my area, Jacuzzi had the best dealer and tub, not just the best tub. I will admit that after spending time on this forum I regret not wet testing a Hot Springs tub.
What else should I have done? Maybe I should have just sent the 1st dealer I came across $8,000 with a note to deliver whatever he felt was appropriate. That way I didn't waste any of his precious time answering my stupid questions.
This forum needs to be preserved as a place where we can exchange information and joke around a little while respecting each other. It is past time to send the dealer rant threads as well as any that bash the dealers to the dead horse file and never bring them up again.
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Advice is like a hot tub, you get what you pay for. This forum is free to all who participate, keep THAT in mind while reading all this stuff.
Up until a few days ago when the dealer ranting started, I was really enjoying this site. I actually felt sorry for the dealers after the 1st post because sales is a tough job. Most small businesses fail so the successful ones are doing something right and working damned hard to do it.
So I decided not to respond to the unbridled consumer bashing, but I just couldn't sit by and let it go because it wouldn't go away. After the 3rd dealer rant thread, I lost control and responded to a particularly vicious post. I am sorry that I did because I am now part of the problem.
Before these threads started, everyone had their say and their opinion was respected.
No one slammed anyone else and if that did happen, they were taken to task, either by other members or the moderators.
We asked questions and for the most part got answers. And we were free to follow the advice or not.
As a consumer, I'm not sure what I did to make dealers so angry. Having never owned a hot tub, I shopped around for tubs trying to learn more about them. In the process I weeded out the ones that didn't have a chance (mostly because of the dealers), then wet tested the ones I liked and bought it (mostly because of the dealer).
Does that mean that Jacuzzi is the only tub worthwhile? Absolutely not. It means that of the stores I visited in my area, Jacuzzi had the best dealer and tub, not just the best tub. I will admit that after spending time on this forum I regret not wet testing a Hot Springs tub.
What else should I have done? Maybe I should have just sent the 1st dealer I came across $8,000 with a note to deliver whatever he felt was appropriate. That way I didn't waste any of his precious time answering my stupid questions.
This forum needs to be preserved as a place where we can exchange information and joke around a little while respecting each other. It is past time to send the dealer rant threads as well as any that bash the dealers to the dead horse file and never bring them up again.
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Advice is like a hot tub, you get what you pay for. This forum is free to all who participate, keep THAT in mind while reading all this stuff.
Yes it is. And if it continues on its present course it will just be the 3 or 4 of you whining to each other when things don't go your way.
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I am very glad that I found this forum. Had I not, I would have bought a brand that my pool dealer sell. We have a good track record with that dealer. But I hears that one must Wet Test. The spa I purchased, being delivered today, was not my original choice after dry testing. so I wish to thank all that chimed in with their opinion.
BUT, I see a lot of people slamming dealers, spa brands and consumers alike. Enough already. When my customers drove me crazy... I sold my business. Then found someting else to do that would make me happy.
But, the customers paid the bills... Never forget that!
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Oh brother. I'm a consumer and I disagree. but then again, I'm tired of the rant mode in here.
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Snowbird, you could not have said that better. Took the words right out of my mouth.
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It seems like the rant mode started all of the sudden. I have been involved here for over a year AND NEVER had anything that lasted this long and took over the board like it did this week. The couple post that started all this seemed to fuel a couple dealers. They may not have been as harsh as the first few but the negitive undertones were definetaly pickup by many who read them here. I hope this has run its course.
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I may be walking the plank here but I'd like to comment. I can understand both sides of the issue here. I sold Hot Spring retail for over 20 years and know exactly how frustrating it is to get a bunch of "lookers" sitting in your display at a fair while you are tryng to give a presentation. or whatever. So reading a well thought out, nicely written (Stu) summation of todays frustrations was interesting.
I also have a different look at the industry than I did just being in a store selling one brand. As I travel around my territory, I have learned that there are several good choices for consumers out there, not just the one I'm selling. I have met dealers that carry brands that I had previously dismissed as crap because thats what I had been told by previous "training". Some of these dealers love these "generic" brands and have had many years of success with them. So does that make them wrong? NO
I have grown tired of the rheteric that I know to be just "marketing" that is dispensed here as gospel. I would like to see this forum relax and open up. HS, SD, D1, Jacuzzi, & Marquis are not the only good companies out there. Manufacturers have features. None are absolute. Some are good, some are dumb. 100% No-By Pass filtraton is a great marketing story. Thats it, a great story. Relax.
(We now return you to your regularly scheduled program)
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Due to busy-ness in my life, and a new computer, I hadn't been on this site in a while. Wow, things have gotten a little crazy.
I'm in advertising sales, and I know how difficult selling retail can be. My family is in the car business, and I've spent 9 years in retail.
Having said that, I think what may help solve this ongoing issue is to have dealers who would like to rant about us "annoying" customers, have a special area that they can do that in.
That way, if you choose to enter that folder, you do so at your own risk. Just like if I want to see Term's holiday pics, I know that I'm not getting any valuble information about hot tubs.
This has worked well for the other sub topics, to this might be the route to go....
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Due to busy-ness in my life, and a new computer, I hadn't been on this site in a while. Wow, things have gotten a little crazy.
I'm in advertising sales, and I know how difficult selling retail can be. My family is in the car business, and I've spent 9 years in retail.
Having said that, I think what may help solve this ongoing issue is to have dealers who would like to rant about us "annoying" customers, have a special area that they can do that in.
That way, if you choose to enter that folder, you do so at your own risk. Just like if I want to see Term's holiday pics, I know that I'm not getting any valuble information about hot tubs.
This has worked well for the other sub topics, to this might be the route to go....
I disagree. The mixing of consumers and dealers is one of the most valuable contirbutions this board has to offer. Seperating them, I think we all would loose.
Someties the S/N ratio here gets crazy, but it's thats the nature of message boards and part of the process.
Sometimes, it's like watching sausage being made...
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I posted this in another therad and really it is a response that applys more in this one.....
I am not going to comment on the No By Pass....but regarding Term and Steve...who both I respect and admire....I will say that there is much to many brands that we all could mention certain things about but I think we as always wanting to be courteous and respectful of each other choose not to....For all the bickering that as gone on here of late....I would hope that people will actually see that very very few spas ever get slammed as it has been mentioned but the Marketing of basically 2 company's does get hammered from time to time....but it is the marketing and the sales tactics that are held in such low regard not the products.
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LMAO, I'm guessing what you mean is disgusting and fascinating all at the same time!
Sometimes, it's like watching sausage being made...
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LMAO, I'm guessing what you mean is disgusting and fascinating all at the same time!
Bingo. ;)
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I'll bite, what spa do you own that you've had all these service issues on (not that I doubt you, I'm just curious)?
It doesn't matter what type of spa. I'm sure every brand of spa has had this problem (Marquis, Hot Springs, D1, Sundance, and yes even the spa I sell Arctic). Now the question is did the dealer actually get out to the spa in a reasonable amount of time. Did the dealer make the customer happy? If the person with the spa that hasn’t needed a service finally does, but doesn't get service then whose better shape. A: Person one with 5 problems that were fixed in a few days. B: Person two with one problem that hasn’t been fixed after 15 phone calls and 2 months?
A great spa with a great dealer is what everyone wants.
A so-so spa with a great dealer second.
A great spa with a bad dealer last. Unless the spa never breaks, which it will at some point. All cars break at some point, so does every spa.
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It doesn't matter what type of spa. I'm sure every brand of spa has had this problem (Marquis, Hot Springs, D1, Sundance, and yes even the spa I sell Arctic). Now the question is did the dealer actually get out to the spa in a reasonable amount of time. Did the dealer make the customer happy? If the person with the spa that hasn’t needed a service finally does, but doesn't get service then whose better shape. A: Person one with 5 problems that were fixed in a few days. B: Person two with one problem that hasn’t been fixed after 15 phone calls and 2 months?
A great spa with a great dealer is what everyone wants.
A so-so spa with a great dealer second.
A great spa with a bad dealer last. Unless the spa never breaks, which it will at some point. All cars break at some point, so does every spa.
I'm living this right now with my pellet stove. It's a decent product/brand, but it does need repair. The dealer is usless and I am paying for it. No return calls, moronic techs, indifferent attitudes. The worse part? I am stuck. Other dealers in the area are franchised and wont help me because I didn't buy from them. Iregardless if I want a part or a service call (Even though it's not a warrenty call).
The factory wont help. They do not deal at the customer level. I am stuck with a bonehead dealer and it is the pits. :P
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It doesn't matter what type of spa. I'm sure every brand of spa has had this problem (Marquis, Hot Springs, D1, Sundance, and yes even the spa I sell Arctic). Now the question is did the dealer actually get out to the spa in a reasonable amount of time. Did the dealer make the customer happy? If the person with the spa that hasn’t needed a service finally does, but doesn't get service then whose better shape. A: Person one with 5 problems that were fixed in a few days. B: Person two with one problem that hasn’t been fixed after 15 phone calls and 2 months?
A great spa with a great dealer is what everyone wants.
A so-so spa with a great dealer second.
A great spa with a bad dealer last. Unless the spa never breaks, which it will at some point. All cars break at some point, so does every spa.
I'll buy that.
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Anybody want to hear about my experience with SEARS?
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Anybody want to hear about my experience with SEARS?
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Sears? I love sears. I have found they have the best trained folks working the floor. I am sexually attracted to anything that has "Craftsman" stamped on it .
Their fianicial department (Sears card) was a mess and they sold that off.
What happened?
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Only kidding Drew...you really don't want to hear it...It is a long, long story. The last call to them went something like this...."AM I unhappy, am I disappointed that all my appliances, all my yard equipment and even my $%##@ garage door openers have SEARS name on them??...Well check out my new website SEARSSUCKS.com...and the customer service guy said really? I just would not buy anything from Sears again.
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Oh and Citi Bank has their credit cards now...and they deserve it..I don't like them either! >:(
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Thats too bad Bonnie. As I said. I love Sears. I hope things don't change now that they are with Kmart.
The Craftsman guarentee is great.
I have found thier sales folks to be helpful, polite, and extreamly knowledgable. When I think of stores like Home Depot, or Best Buys (shudder!) , I cringe. But Sears has always been great.
They will match any prices on thier merchandise.
I must have spent $25000 with them over the past 10 years, easly.
Maybe you should escalate your problem?
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Drew, ALL of my appliances.. are from Sears (you will see consumer reports gives Kenmore thumbs up most of the time). Hubby's tractor, chainsaw, weed wacker, garge door opener, rototiller, hand mower all from Sears. Aside from the issue that made me so angry over my dishwasher (2 service calls that I paid for in advance and no one showed up ), Sears was questioning my warranty and did not want to honor it, when I have it in black and white in my manual. To top this off, I went into the Sears Hardware store, that is now the Sears appliance store. I needed new burners for the Whirlpool stove that I purchased at Sears. guess what? they don't carry them, they actually told me to go to "AN APPLIANCE STORE". Talk about a rant.... >:(
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Sorry Bosco, I got this way off track :-/
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Drew, ALL of my appliances.. are from Sears (you will see consumer reports gives Kenmore thumbs up most of the time). Hubby's tractor, chainsaw, weed wacker, garge door opener, rototiller, hand mower all from Sears. Aside from the issue that made me so angry over my dishwasher (2 service calls that I paid for in advance and no one showed up ), Sears was questioning my warranty and did not want to honor it, when I have it in black and white in my manual. To top this off, I went into the Sears Hardware store, that is now the Sears appliance store. I needed new burners for the Whirlpool stove that I purchased at Sears. guess what? they don't carry them, they actually told me to go to "AN APPLIANCE STORE". Talk about a rant.... >:(
Supriised they didn't offer to order them for you.
Go to parts store.com
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Bosco,
I felt exactly like this a while back and wasn't going to participate on this forum. I stayed away about 2 weeks and someone who doesn't participate on this forum e-mailed me and asked for my advice (funny how fate is).
I realized at that time that maybe, just maybe I help out people through my ramblings. And I continue to want to help.
I originally came here and Doc's site to learn all I can about tubs. I learned a lot and disagree at what's being said at times. I appreciate all the time and advice that the dealers give us without earning a cent from us. But I also learned that some people here, dealers and consumers alike, have a VERY narrow view of brands.
I was (am) on a limited budget and had a definite amount I wanted to spend. I know that MY tub was the best for me for my price range. I saw a lot of manufacturers but not all and I wish that when I was shopping "money was no object" . There were some brands I wished I could have seen but weren't represented in my area or I "knew" they were too expensive for me. Is my tub perfect - NO, but I don't believe any of them are. I believe you need to live with something in order to find out what you like and don't like.
I've said it before - it would be nice for the professionals to be able to tell prospective buyers "stay away from xyz spa because it's crap" but quite honestly, it's never going to happen IMO.
As far as the TP vs FF debate - I knew I would be opening up a can of worms with my observation but didn't want it to get ugly. I learned how well insulated my tub is AND learned how well insulated your tub is too. I am truely impressed that our tubs were that efficient.
I think I said enough!
Vinny
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I've said it before - it would be nice for the professionals to be able to tell prospective buyers "stay away from xyz spa because it's crap" but quite honestly, it's never going to happen IMO.
xyz spas are crap!!!! ;D
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Wow, what a rant! Anything here you specifically want me to comment on? My attention span is too short to try to go through it.
As for the dealer rant, the most recent one came from a dealer who spoke of a number of people that he sees over and over again. I don't see it as an attack on consumers, but a dealer letting us see one part of his day.
Once upon a time I was in charge of PC support for CompuServe and 99% of my customers loved me, but we had a lab where we could rant about the other 1% so we could maintain our sanity while working. Despite requesting it, I was not allowed to slap the heck out of the woman who refused to stop eating over her keyboard.
What have you got against Terms pictures? What he does with his day is between him and his boss as long as long as they don't violate any forum rules.
The threads are clearly labeled. I try to keep things to a medium level of clean, but if you don't like those threads you aren't required to read them. Oh, and course, your as entitled to rant as much as anyone.
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What have you got against Terms pictures? What he does with his day is between him and his boss as long as long as they don't violate any forum rules.
The threads are clearly labeled. I try to keep things to a medium level of clean, but if you don't like those threads you aren't required to read them. Oh, and course, your as entitled to rant as much as anyone.
What'd I miss? ??? ???
Who said they didn't like my pics? Are they nuts or something? It's pretty obvious EVERYONE likes my pics, even the ones who say they don't.
Terminator
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Everyone should have to work in retail sales for commission just once is their life.
No wait, I think everyone should have to work in retail sales for commission selling spas at a home show just once in their life.
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No wait, I think everyone should have to work in retail sales for commission selling spas at a home show just once in their life.
Why, do you hate us?
;D
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I LOVE working shows. What's not to like? You get to talk to hundreds of potential customers. The better shows have turkey legs and fried Twinkies and drizzled maize. It's like a little slice of paradise. ???
Terminator
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I LOVE working shows. What's not to like? You get to talk to hundreds of potential customers. The better shows have turkey legs and fried Twinkies and drizzled maize. It's like a little slice of paradise. ???
Terminator
That attitude is why you have much success in sales Term. It takes effort to be positive or negitive so why not put the effort toward the positive side and both parties win.
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Well thank you, sir! I appreciate your kind words.
My wife asked me why I'm always looking forward to going to work and my reply was this:
"I'm going to sell HotSpring Spas. It ain't like I'm selling insurance, burial plots, or D-1. Why wouldn't I be excited?"
Terminator
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Everyone should have to work in retail sales for commission just once is their life.
No wait, I think everyone should have to work in retail sales for commission selling spas at a home show just once in their life.
As a repair person, I think people should work in the service industry for a while.
I'm amazed at times the way people think they can talk to other people and expect from us. I won't go into what I think of sales people. ;D
Lately, I been thinking about selling spas ... but am afraid what I would think of myself. ;) ;D
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Lately, I been thinking about selling spas ... but am afraid what I would think of myself. ;) ;D
That depends on what you sell and if you truly believe in it.
My "Job everyone should have to do at least once" would be waiting tables. I did this in college and it's a great place to learn patience, consideration, and conversationislinguism.
Terminator
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I've enjoyed reading through everyones posts on this topic. Has anyone checked the phase of the moon? Perhaps "ranting" is justified? We all have to let off steam from time to time - posting on an internet message board is a 'safe' outlet. (Beats killing someone or blowing something up, eh?)
All that aside - I am addicted to this message board. The exchange of information, and helpful support is fantastic. I feel you all are becoming my 'friends' and I don't know any of you! 8)
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LMAO, that was funny! BAD TERMINATOR...BAD!
Modifikashun....Funny like a clown!
Well thank you, sir! I appreciate your kind words.
My wife asked me why I'm always looking forward to going to work and my reply was this:
"I'm going to sell HotSpring Spas. It ain't like I'm selling insurance, burial plots, or D-1. Why wouldn't I be excited?"
Terminator
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posting on an internet message board is a 'safe' outlet. (Beats killing someone or blowing something up, eh?)
Not necessarily...
However, I'm glad you're here and enjoying yourself. It is a fun place to hang out, in spite of all the salespeople that are here.
Terminator
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Not necessarily...
However, I'm glad you're here and enjoying yourself. It is a fun place to hang out, even with all the salespeople that are here.
Terminator
I have enjoyed for the year or so I have been here. Good people, lots of info, and a few good pics from Term
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That depends on what you sell and if you truly believe in it.
My "Job everyone should have to do at least once" would be waiting tables. I did this in college and it's a great place to learn patience, consideration, and conversationislinguism.
Terminator
I think any service job where a person is looked at as a thing (waiter, janitor, delivery person ...) can make a person a humble person. It's amazing how some people treat someone who's not their "equal".
As far as selling tubs, I believe in Artesian for sure and now Arctic. I would have the best of both types of tubs - BAR NONE!!!! :D
Anyone what to start me up in a business in NJ?? ???
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That depends on what you sell and if you truly believe in it.
My "Job everyone should have to do at least once" would be waiting tables. I did this in college and it's a great place to learn patience, consideration, and conversationislinguism.
Terminator
Thank you Term.
I think any service job where a person is looked at as a thing (waiter, janitor, delivery person ...) can make a person a humble person. It's amazing how some people treat someone who's not their "equal".
Sorry, but I've never thought of myself as a "thing" :'(
The restaurant business is my world. I have done managing and hated it. Waiting tables is my CHOSEN profession and I love it. I have been in sales all my life except for the 13 years that I took out to do daycare and stay home with my kids. Waiting tables is a form of sales where you get 15-25 percent commission. You get to conversationislingate with people all day and make them happy by filling their tummies. Yes, you get those undesirable guests sometimes as in any business, but then it's the challenge of turning that frown upsidedown! :D. Okay, do you see why kids and the public have something in common?
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so I thought I had the quote thing figured out!
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so I thought I had the quote thing figured out!
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Thanks Chas, and your point is you can do it and I can't? ;)
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Once upon a time I was in charge of PC support for CompuServe and 99% of my customers loved me, but we had a lab we could slap the heck out of so we could maintain our sanity while working.
I know you're a cat person, but what on earth have you got against labs?
(http://www.stevepiercy.com/albums/Duke/IMG_0438.jpg)
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Wow, I take a few weeks off and I come back to some strange going on's
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Thank you Term. I think any service job where a person is looked at as a thing (waiter, janitor, delivery person ...) can make a person a humble person. It's amazing how some people treat someone who's not their "equal".
Sorry, but I've never thought of myself as a "thing" :'(
I don't think anybody looks at themselves as things but the way common courtesy is going - down the tubes - I believe some people look at others that aren't in their socio-economic "class" as inferior.
I hear and see it here in NJ - if someone is perceived as an "inferior class" of person someone will treat them badly. People fawn all over a doctor, lawyer or other professionals because of their status but let that person be a janitor, garbage man or food service worker ... they might not be treated the same. I've heard "conversations" by "intelligent" people to customer service reps who happen to answer the phone, right off the bat they are nasty. I have personally been screamed at by someone because he felt he is above me - these types of things are uncalled for. As far as I'm concerned they are not looking at the person as a person but an inanimate thing.
This is not all people but the arrogant people. Unfortunately some people haven't learned or are not teaching their children how to treat other human beings.
Next time you go shopping for a big ticket item dress down and go with a scuffy look - you WILL be treated differently than if you dressed sharply and are very neat. In 2004 I bought a car and went scruffy and dressed down (my natural state!) - they treated me as though I couldn't scrape together 2 nickles and didn't understand the world of high finance. I kept telling them don't worry about it - lets talk car and money ... eventually they ran my credit score and treated me a whole lot better when they found out I have a 800+ credit score. If I went in a suit, I would almost guarantee that I probably would have been treated differently!
Yes - people look at people not too kindly!!!
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Oh yeah - tell me about it. I was born and raised in Tennessee so I do talk like a southerner. I moved to an area of Florida that is mostly populated by people from the Northeast. You would not believe things that have been said to me over the years because of my accent. People automatically assume that I am stupid. I had one guy tell me that he was suprised that I owned a pair of shoes. Now who is the stupid one here?
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Thanks Chas, and your point is you can do it and I can't? ;)
;)
Here - click on the "quote" button in the upper right had corner of the individual post you wish to use. It will open up a reply window with the whole post in the little quote box. Then you can cut and paste the quote to your heart's content. If you want to interrupt a quote, put in this: {/quote} then make your comment, and to continue the quote put in {quote} again.
For illustration, I used the { type of brackets, but to make it work use [ ]
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I know you're a cat person, but what on earth have you got against labs?
(http://www.stevepiercy.com/albums/Duke/IMG_0438.jpg)
:P
No lab slapping! I'll come after you all!
:P
And everyone as a child should either have a paper route or try to sell girl scout cookies (the OLD way DOOR TO DOOR wth BOXES to carry), as a teen should have to do volunteer work planting trees or building houses or feeding people, and as an adult should have to wait tables for at least a summer. If everbody did, and remembered what it was like, they'd have less to complain about.
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;)
Here - click on the "quote" button in the upper right had corner of the individual post you wish to use. It will open up a reply window with the whole post in the little quote box. Then you can cut and paste the quote to your heart's content. If you want to interrupt a quote, put in this: {/quote} then make your comment, and to continue the quote put in {quote} again.
For illustration, I used the { type of brackets, but to make it work use [ ]
Well, I figured out that part when I quoted Term, but then I tried to quote Vinny in the same reply and it open another reply window, so now I my question is how to quote two different people in the same reply
thanks Chas
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I don't think anybody looks at themselves as things but the way common courtesy is going - down the tubes - I believe some people look at others that aren't in their socio-economic "class" as inferior.
I hear and see it here in NJ - if someone is perceived as an "inferior class" of person someone will treat them badly. People fawn all over a doctor, lawyer or other professionals because of their status but let that person be a janitor, garbage man or food service worker ... they might not be treated the same. I've heard "conversations" by "intelligent" people to customer service reps who happen to answer the phone, right off the bat they are nasty. I have personally been screamed at by someone because he felt he is above me - these types of things are uncalled for. As far as I'm concerned they are not looking at the person as a person but an inanimate thing.
This is not all people but the arrogant people. Unfortunately some people haven't learned or are not teaching their children how to treat other human beings.
Next time you go shopping for a big ticket item dress down and go with a scuffy look - you WILL be treated differently than if you dressed sharply and are very neat. In 2004 I bought a car and went scruffy and dressed down (my natural state!) - they treated me as though I couldn't scrape together 2 nickles and didn't understand the world of high finance. I kept telling them don't worry about it - lets talk car and money ... eventually they ran my credit score and treated me a whole lot better when they found out I have a 800+ credit score. If I went in a suit, I would almost guarantee that I probably would have been treated differently!
Yes - people look at people not too kindly!!!
This hit a hot spot with me. I had a lot to say in reponse to this but I will try to sum it up in the interest of this whole thing being off topic.
Maybe it's the fact that you live out east and I live here, but I don't feel that I am looked at as "inferior" because of my chosen career nor do I look at white collar workers as "superior". Most of the time I don't know the profession of the people I take care of until they've been in a few times and we get to talking. In fact, I mentioned in another post that I first heard of Marquis through a customer. I had been having converstions with this guy for over 6 months before I found out that he was the president of a bank. Another guy who I ended up being very good friends with through my job was (may he RIP) a very high profile chiropractor of pro athletes. There are many, many other white collar people that I wait on and I'm on a first name basis with. Some greet me with a day brightening smile, others with a hug.
So I guess my point is that it's all in how you feel about yourself and how you treat others.
BTW-Garbage haulers and janitors get paid very well around here. Unless they're in uniform, and at their job, how do you know who they are?
My normal attire is jeans and a sweatshirt and I don't feel I am treated differently whether I'm shopping for a vehicle or a hot tub (wait...maybe that's why I didn't get a ducky thrown in!) Some people say women are treated differently when car shopping...when I bought my Jeep, I went by myself in my jeans and sweatshirt. I think when you go in to buy a high ticket item, you have to be knowledgable and self- confidant and expect to be treated with respect and treat them with the same respect. In turn, you will be taken seriously, if not, they don't get the sale.
I agree with you that there are arrogant people out there, but I don't believe it's because of what I do for a living or how I dress. It's just the way they are, not because of who I am.
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Well, I figured out that part when I quoted Term, but then I tried to quote Vinny in the same reply and it open another reply window, so now I my question is how to quote two different people in the same reply
thanks Chas
I open my browser multiple times. I will quote the second person in the second browser and cut and paste the URL.
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Well, I figured out that part when I quoted Term, but then I tried to quote Vinny in the same reply and it open another reply window, so now I my question is how to quote two different people in the same reply
thanks Chas
Wow, I hadn't thought of that. Thanks for pushing me to higher levels of posting technique.
:-[
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And everyone as a child should either have a paper route or try to sell girl scout cookies (the OLD way DOOR TO DOOR wth BOXES to carry), as a teen should have to do volunteer work planting trees or building houses or feeding people, and as an adult should have to wait tables for at least a summer. If everbody did, and remembered what it was like, they'd have less to complain about.
I agree. Except for waiting tables, I did all of the above and have pushed my kids to do the same. I have worked at fast-food counters- does that count? And I have waited tables at church banquets here and there. Never gave it any thought - it was just stuff that a person did when I was growing up.
I think my kids have turned out pretty good - I have the normal fear of a parent that they'll make all my same mistakes, but other than that...
Oh - I would add one thing to Anne's list: do some volunteer work in a home for the elderly.
I tend to see our society as very much self-centered. Root of most of the evil as I see it.
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Some people say women are treated differently when car shopping...when I bought my Jeep, I went by myself in my jeans and sweatshirt.
what kind of Jeep do you drive?
I'm a Cherokee man - own a pair of them.
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My normal attire is jeans and a sweatshirt and I don't feel I am treated differently whether I'm shopping for a vehicle or a hot tub (wait...maybe that's why I didn't get a ducky thrown in!) Some people say women are treated differently when car shopping...when I bought my Jeep, I went by myself in my jeans and sweatshirt. I think when you go in to buy a high ticket item, you have to be knowledgable and self- confidant and expect to be treated with respect and treat them with the same respect. In turn, you will be taken seriously, if not, they don't get the sale.
.
After to say I have heard and been witness to to this type of thing many times and have heard it preached about so much in training while in the auto busniess....Treat women the same as your would a man....( I think better in some ways actually)...but it does not get though to everyone...a quick classic, is when a person I worked with told the wife to shut up as he was negotiating with the husband.....lets say he did not make the deal
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You guys are right on target. Both of my boys are Boy Scouts and while they don't sell door to door, they participate in other things to make money for their troop. This weekend for example, they will be splitting and delivering firewood. They have participated in volunteer activities at our local Senior Center, Church soup kitchen and my oldest (15) works with the farmer who lives in front of us. I think it is important for kids to learn early that a good work ethic is more important than a fancy job title. You may not grow up to be a doctor or lawyer, but there is no shame in being a farmer, or mechanic or a brick layer as long as you give an honest days work for an honest days pay and take pride in what you do.
My 15 year old has his own checking account and MAC card and though Scouts has learned good money management very early on.
When I was in college, I actually had a job catching chickens (and I was pretty good at it!)
Vinny, maybe it is the attitude of those in our part of the country, but I agree with your observation. I personally take offence when someone says to me Oh so you don't work..because I am a stay at home Mom.... >:(
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When I was in college, I actually had a job catching chickens (and I was pretty good at it!)
(
It worked for Rocky. ;D
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It worked for Rocky. ;D
Rocky lost.
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Treat women the same as your would a man
You mean offer them cigars, beer, and the chance to have their picture made with a ... um....hydrotherapy technician? If you say do it, I'll give it a try! ;D
Terminator
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Now you are catching on Term! I tried the shiner and loved it. I've been known to smoke a cigar or two in my life and it would be a great honor to be pictured with you.
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Ruby,
I'm sorry I hit a nerve with this and maybe it is a Northeast thing. I am a New Yorker and we are perceived to be nasty and cold people and wer're not! Vlady mentioned it in her post about Northeasterners as well.
I do think highly of myself and am fairly successful IMO. I have 2 good children, own a home and am able to support my family. But more importantly I treat and teach my children to treat people with respect. I make sure I treat people well and in turn they treat me well too.
Unfortunately, society does look at people by their job status and there was a report last week on the radio that said this. A reporter filed out applications for car insurance and something else with the same information on it except job description and the "janitor" was receiving quotes higher than the "lawyer". Is this right - NO!
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I tend to see our society as very much self-centered. Root of most of the evil as I see it.
Chas,
You sell hot tubs ... pretty self indulgent! ;) ;D ???
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Rocky lost.
it all depends on how you look at it. ;)
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Wrangler Sport Hard and Soft tops, 6 speed man. tran. 4 wd, funnest dang vehicle I have ever driven!
what kind of Jeep do you drive?
I'm a Cherokee man - own a pair of them.
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Not as I see it. Spas are a necessity for well being. they soothe aches and pains, enhance sleep, centralize a place where family can reconnect (since it doesn't happen at the dinner table any more) and rekindle passion. Hardly a luxury item, most defintly a necessity.
Chas,
You sell hot tubs ... pretty self indulgent! ;) ;D ???
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Not as I see it. Spas are a necessity for well being. they soothe aches and pains, enhance sleep, centralize a place where family can reconnect (since it doesn't happen at the dinner table any more) and rekindle passion. Hardly a luxury item, most defintly a necessity.
It most certainly becomes so for many..... :D
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Now you are catching on Term! I tried the shiner and loved it. I've been known to smoke a cigar or two in my life and it would be a great honor to be pictured with you.
Bring your AR-15 and we'll go punch some holes! 8)
Terminator
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Bring your AR-15 and we'll go punch some holes! 8)
Terminator
(http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/569374/2/istockphoto_569374_bullet_holes_extroverted.jpg)
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(http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/569374/2/istockphoto_569374_bullet_holes_extroverted.jpg)
Looks like my bedroom ceiling.
Terminator
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what kind of Jeep do you drive?
I'm a Cherokee man - own a pair of them.
I'm driving my second Grand Cherokee(00). My first one(99) was totaled in the accident.
I knew that you had at least one Jeep. I remember when you got it. I think I posted a link for the Jeep forum on town talk that I used to go to.
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I've been away from this site for awhile. Guess I've missed out on a few things.
I joined to maybe help people with some water chemistry issues and general guidelines on the education of a spa purchase.
I'm in it for the long haul. We've made it this far, we're doing something right. It does not involve bashing.
Would like to hear more from those who shy away.
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Looks like my bedroom ceiling.
Terminator
Someone shooting at you thru your ceiling? Check your attic or roof.
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Someone shooting at you thru your ceiling? Check your attic or roof.
Nah, I had a little "negligent discharge" in Australia and will soon be eligible for more welfare come November.
Terminator
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okay, so Jeff Foxworthy was right, apparently....someone hears a southern accent, they immediately deduct 100 IQ points.....that's easy enough to shock the pants off someone then, when you show them you can walk, talk, chew bubblegum AND slap your kid (or theirs) upside the head for screwing up all at the same time...
I get a little different stereotype....you know what everyone typically thinks of when the words "truck drivers" are mentioned....balding to about the neck, then braidable body hair.....fat, smelly, broke, foul mouth, etc.....well, I'm a female dump truck driver.....not only am I suddenly dumber than a bag of government hammers, but it's a SHOCK I can drive manual transmission, and I must be bisexual at VERY least... I found, however....that I'd MUCH rather drive truck for a decent wage than work retail and get the abuse slung across the counter.....I've also driven school bus, and they no longer encourage you to throw the kids out the door while in motion..... *sigh* I also worked at the deisel counter of a truck stop...let me just say "YIKES." Out of everything I've done, this gives me the most satisfaction, least stress and surprisingly, the best paychecks.
My son is being volunteered for helping a neighbor lady (she's gotta be in her 80's) mow her lawn once a week...he's going to be 15 and I'm NOT gonna have him turn into the town troublemaker....that's for someone else's kid.
Hmm...oh yeah....consumer rants.......guess this is blown a bit off topic, huh?
Ok....if you're in retail and hate dealing with stupid customers, take a break, find another line of work, whatever it takes to either 'reset' yourself, or find something that makes you happy to get up in the morning.....Term, this does NOT apply to you, as I seriously doubt what would make you happy to get up in the morning is legal. ;)
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Term, this does NOT apply to you, as I seriously doubt what would make you happy to get up in the morning is legal. ;)
Believe me, it takes very little to make me happy. Some people probably consider me to be "simple" and that's OK, most "complex" folks I know don't seem to be enjoying themselves that much. :)
Terminator
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one of the most enjoyable jobs i ever had was driving a truck...granted, not a semi. it was a 25' box truck. spent a good 10+ hours a day in that thing racking upto 350 miles each day. and that was driving in los angelas!!!
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What type of contraband were you transporting?
Terminator
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Nah, I had a little "negligent discharge" in Australia and will soon be eligible for more welfare come November.
Terminator
Congratulations!
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Congratulations!
Thank you!
Terminator
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What type of contraband were you transporting?
Terminator
other than myself???
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Thank you!
Terminator
I don't think folks picked up on your phrasing.
Hey Gang! Terms gonna have a pup!
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I don't think folks picked up on your phrasing.
Hey Gang! Terms gonna have a pup!
Just another name on the welfare rolls....
Actually, the news broke during the Bypass Filtration discussion. I think you were busy staving off circ pumps attempt upon your persona to notice the other day. ;D
Terminator
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Just another name on the welfare rolls....
Actually, the news broke during the Bypass Filtration discussion. I think you were busy staving off circ pumps attempt upon your persona to notice the other day. ;D
Terminator
I'm sorry I missed it.
/my butt still hurts.
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Term, a hearty congratulations/most sincere sympathy on your impending semi automatic diaper loader. May your family learn to keep the important things out of the reach of the rugrats, and may you learn NOT to try and re-use those little balloon thingies.....ya can't turn one inside out and be good to go! ;)
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Big Congrats Term! You will have to change your avatar soon..When is the little one due?
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Big Congrats Term! You will have to change your avatar soon..When is the little one due?
Thank ya'll! If my cypherin' is correct, sometime around Thanksgiving. That means I have to buy it a Christmas present. :(
Terminator
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Thank ya'll! If my cypherin' is correct, sometime around Thanksgiving. That means I have to buy it a Christmas present. :(
Terminator
Wow, that sucks. Can't you tell your wife to "hold it" for a while?
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Wow, that sucks. Can't you tell your wife to "hold it" for a while?
I just realized something: What if it's twins? I did get seconds that night and that would be TWO Christmas presents. :o :( :'(
Terminator
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I just realized something: What if it's twins? I did get seconds that night and that would be TWO Christmas presents. :o :( :'(
Terminator
Is that how twins are made? Seconds?
I have new found respect for the geeky guy in the next office who just had trippelts.
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Is that how twins are made? Seconds?
I have new found respect for the geeky guy in the next office who just had trippelts.
wow.....just think how many times it takes for a good size litter of puppies.......... :o :o
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I just realized something: What if it's twins? I did get seconds that night and that would be TWO Christmas presents. :o :( :'(
Terminator
Why would you think your second trip to the buffet line would cause your wife to have twins?
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Why would you think your second trip to the buffet line would cause your wife to have twins?
The same way I know that if a pregnant lady pull a pig's tail and it stays straight, that means she's having a boy....simple common sense.
Terminator
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What type of contraband were you transporting?
Terminator
I was in a contraband once.
Played bass.
We had a record.
Bought it at WalMart.
We wanted to rehearse in the parking lot of a local discount store, but the police said Target practice was illegal.
Hey Term - does your wife know about this? I mean, have you told her yet? Come to think of it, did she tip the bellman?
Just ramblin..................