Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: opintub on September 29, 2004, 06:08:24 pm
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shopping for a while.in no hurry but i do want the best i can get.i have read all posts for over a month and i came to a conlusion that all spas are the best or all spas suck.
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There are lots of models, lots of features, even quite a few price points. But in my opinion, THE best hot tub is the one in your back yard. That's where mine is and I'll be in it tonight.
('course I'm just a rookie - MY best tub is 2 months old today!)
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My advice would be simple. Go to the websites of the major manufacturers (my choices would be Hot Spring, Caldera, Marquis, Sundance, Jacuzzi and D1) and find out which dealers are in your area. Visit all of them and get an idea of what each dealer is like, what they have to offer, how it fits dry, how good a deal you can get, compare warranties, etc. Make a list of your top 2 (or 3, or 4) and WET TEST them. Decide which is best (have a fallback choice) and see what it will take to get a deal done.
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There is no real answer to your question...Most spa owners/ dealers are going to have a bias to what they bought or sell.....There are several well made spas out there....I would say don't over buy....thinking about a spa as a big party center...it really is for personal therapy....I would also suggest looking for something that fits you well and don't get caught with up frills that don't mean much after a very short while...I would also say stick to the better known brands…..as in the long term they seem to serve people better
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When you say the best, what do you mean? Best in what way(s)?
Brewman
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I agree with Spatech t.u.o. but would add what you want to use the tub for, soak,hydrotharepy,tub to entertian,or for just you and one other, small family, how often, spend limit,ect,ect,ect.
answer these questions to give you an idea on the tub that fits you and your needs so when you hit the tub dealers they can help you pick the right one.
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Each major manufacturer probably has at least one satisfactory model for you. VALUE-wise I would rank them as follows:
1. Catalina
2. Emerald
3. Marquis
4. Arctic
5. Sundance
6. Caldera
7. Dimension 1
8. Coleman
9. Jacuzzi
10. Artesian
OMIGOSH! He left HotSpring off of his list.
Yup. Just my honest opinion after 27 years of experience with spas.
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Yup. Just my honest opinion after 27 years of experience with spas.
May I ask who you are affiliated with....
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Each major manufacturer probably has at least one satisfactory model for you. VALUE-wise I would rank them as follows:
1. Catalina
2. Emerald
3. Marquis
4. Arctic
5. Sundance
6. Caldera
7. Dimension 1
8. Coleman
9. Jacuzzi
10. Artesian
OMIGOSH! He left HotSpring off of his list.
Yup. Just my honest opinion after 27 years of experience with spas.
Wow. Tell me some more opinions. What did you think of the moon landing? Roswell?
-Ed
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OMIGOSH! He left HotSpring off of his list.
Yup. Just my honest opinion after 27 years of experience with spas.
The opinion of anyone who leaves Hot Springs off a list that large while making such a fuss about it should be taken with a grain of salt.........from a very satisfied Master Spas' owner. The shark easily blew away a 27 year reputation with one fell swoop........IMHO.
8)
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MY .02 cents (for what THATS worth). The best spa?
1. Mine
2. Mine
3. Mine
With that said, you really need more information. Whats the best for x amount of dollars that offers y & z types of therapy, insulation, etc. Thats fits in an area that is this x this.
My boss wanted "the best that money could buy." Yet, he didnt buy top of the line. After looking around at all features and benefits, a middle of the road spa was what got and he is extremely happy with it.
Get what fits YOUR budget, YOUR space, YOUR needs.
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Doesn't this thread read "honest 'opinions' please?" If spa.shark doesn't think that HotSpring spas are a good value, that's his opinion. All opinions should be taken with a grain of salt.
George
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The opinion of anyone who leaves Hot Springs off a list that large while making such a fuss about it should be taken with a grain of salt.........from a very satisfied Master Spas' owner. The shark easily blew away a 27 year reputation with one fell swoop........IMHO.
8)
Hey windy!
I agree he blew the 27 years experience! Although I agree that Marquis and D1 are in the top I don't know if I'm comfortable with them being in his list with some of the others he has there!
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I've actually stayed out of this one based soley on the subject. What is an honest opinion? Can you have an dishonest opinion? if it is a dishonest opinion, can it really be an opinion?
Someone probably is honestly of the opinion Elvis is alive and returning on board the next comet.
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To each his own, no 2 people will have the same list. Some here think Master is great while other very much disagree. Some like full foam, some do not. Some are big on having a circ pump, some are not. Hey, many people bought those AMC Pacer cars in the 70's because they liked something about them and must have thought they were good value yet I'm sure many of those people were smart, logical and educated. Its great to have other's opinions but in the end you have to form your own or you may end up with a Pacer just because Billy Bob said they're great.
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To each his own, no 2 people will have the same list. Some here think Master is great while other very much disagree. Some like full foam, some do not. Some are big on having a circ pump, some are not. Hey, many people bought those AMC Pacer cars in the 70's because they liked something about them and must have thought they were good value yet I'm sure many of those people were smart, logical and educated. Its great to have other's opinions but in the end you have to form your own or you may end up with a Pacer just because Billy Bob said they're great.
Well put, back in 1980 I bought a Chevy Citation, one of GM's X-cars of that line. It was a terrific car, I ran it for 6 years till it got totalled in an accident. I had 100,000+ miles on it. I had every right to sing the praises of that car from a ride and reliability standpoint. (I won't get into working on it) But most automotive experts, including GM engineers aren't likely to llist this car as one of GM's success stories. I just got a good one I guess.
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Considering that GM and Ford were in the stone age of front wheel drive back then, I'd say the X cars were as successful as possible.
Other than the Cadillac Cimmaron version. That one made no sense to me.
Chrysler had a slight jump on front wheel drive, but they also had their problems back then.
Brewman
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To each his own, no 2 people will have the same list. Some here think Master is great while other very much disagree. Some like full foam, some do not. Some are big on having a circ pump, some are not. Hey, many people bought those AMC Pacer cars in the 70's because they liked something about them and must have thought they were good value yet I'm sure many of those people were smart, logical and educated. Its great to have other's opinions but in the end you have to form your own or you may end up with a Pacer just because Billy Bob said they're great.
Spatech although I agree with most of this post I don't think it is fair of you to call Windy, Billy Bob, nor refer to his spa as a pacer! ;D ;D (kidding!)
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Other than the Cadillac Cimmaron version. That one made no sense to me.
The punchline to this joke is probably the most obvious in the world.
Whats the difference between a Cavelier and a Cimmaron?
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The punchline to this joke is probably the most obvious in the world.
Whats the difference between a Cavelier and a Cimmaron?
About $2000.
I had a Cim - got it from my dad. He got tired of explaining that it was a Caddy. I just called it "the brown car," and drove it till it died.
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You've had different opinions and though not everyone agrees on exactly the same manufacturers, there are a number of spas that consistently reappear. Start with these.
Also, look at what organizations outside of this industry say about spa manufacturers based upon there research and findings.
Good Luck
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Hey windy!
I agree he blew the 27 years experience! Although I agree that Marquis and D1 are in the top I don't know if I'm comfortable with them being in his list with some of the others he has there!
Great point, stuart....I'm with you all the way.....
8)
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Spatech although I agree with most of this post I don't think it is fair of you to call Windy, Billy Bob, nor refer to his spa as a pacer! ;D ;D (kidding!)
LMAO........actually I'm an Edsel kind of guy!--WindyBob
8)
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LMAO........actually I'm an Edsel kind of guy!--WindyBob
8)
WindyBob! Oh yeah, you know I'm going to use that from now on....?! ;D
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WindyBob! Oh yeah, you know I'm going to use that from now on....?! ;D
Heck....I've been called worse....just this morning!
8)
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Honest Opinion---
After seeing Catalina at the top of his "list" I almost choked on my sandwhich. You have got to be kidding.
Well, as they say opinions are like ***holes, eveybodys got one. ;)
Neil O'Donovan
Phoenix Park Outdoor Living
Wilmington, NC
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Yeah, I guess I blew the last 27 years. But I'm retired at age 53 with $4 Million worth of paid for real estate while the rest of you are still working.
IMO high price in spas does not mean high value. Value is return on investment, or more simply performance vs. cost. Catalina and Emerald top my list because they have high value, i.e. they do the same (or better) job for far less cost than a HotSpring or even a Beachcomber which I also intentionally left off of my good value list.
I am amused by the crudity of most of you spa salesman, but I do have respect for Chas who is the only one of you who shows class.
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spa shark
You may be entirely right about your concept of value - it makes sense to me. However, regarding your remarks about "class" and bragging about your wealth while putting everyone else down ? Not classy.
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Wow,
I hope that when I'm 53 I can set around on spa forums and give bad advice while bragging about the wealth I earned by conning people into substandard products!
Spa.shark,
It sounds like you truly earned your handle!
Your right, Catalina and Emerald both make water hot and have jets to massage however, I don't think they are lower priced as you say and for the price they get for them I believe people can do better.
That is just my opinion and you know what they say about that, everyone has one of those and one *****!(even spa forums).
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Hey Stuart,
Why do you think Emeralds are not such a great value?
I've seen them and they seem to give the consumer a lot for their money. They offer a deep tub (38"), 2 pumps, an air blower, 4 different price points for most of their tubs and some of their options don't seem too expensive (I'm not into the fancy lights and stereos - so I don't know about all their options). They also don't seem to get beaten up in forums about lack of quality, except one post here recently.
I've been shopping for a while and quite honestly I was blown away with some of the prices of other tubs: D1 Nautilus - $8,000; Sweetwater Bahia - $6,500 (Sundance dealer wouldn't even quote me a Optima); HS Sovereign - $7,200 (this is a small tub IMO),(next one up $7,800).
The Emerald Cygnus 7009 was quoted at $7,000 (2004 price) and the plastic wood skirting was $250 extra. This is Emeralds 2nd to top of the line tub, I could have bought their 899 Elite for $6,300. I don't think I could touch another tub of that size for around that price. And the skirting price is half of what the Sundance dealer said their skirting costs.
I know you sell Marquis - the Sundance dealer also sells Marquis but didn't have any in the store - and his chain is the only one around selling Marquis around here. I guess he didn't want too much competion to sell those Sundances during a "sale".
I would like to hear your opinion or anyone's for that matter on why Emerald's not that good a value.
BTW, please keep out the arguments that their TP, use pressure treated lumber for support and base, people drink wine instead of beer in them and that J.A. likes them! ;D
Thanks!
Vinny
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BTW, please keep out the arguments that their TP, use pressure treated lumber for support and base, people drink wine instead of beer in them and that J.A. likes them!
Darn, you took away all of my best arguments! All that I have left without these things is this.
1. I'm not a fan of their design, I think they're archaic
2. The lounger’s pivot your hips too far out from your shoulder line and many people will float. (Most brands stopped doing this years ago)
3. Back to point #1 they use a filter system that Marquis and many others pushed by the wayside many years ago.
4. I don't care if you are a full foam fan or a thermo pain fan don't cheapen the quality of the product by not foaming the plumbing! Foam sprayed on the plumbing lines not only helps support them but deadens sound and creates less wear on the jet bodies over time. Leave a dead air space if you would like but support the plumbing and that doesn't mean lightly "dust" it with foam!
5. Many of the Emeralds I've seen have poor shell pulls. If you look down the top bar of the shell you will see an unevenness to the surface, slight dips and bows that do not allow the cover to seal tight. In addition to this there are typically many pits and flaws in the rest of the shell.
6. Unless they have changed, I don't remember a bottom drain on the spa, which means that if I clean my spa in the winter I will be bailing the last 5 or 6 inches out in the cold!
7. I don't think you can take the pressure treated frame out of the equation. Go to any lumber yard anywhere and look at the twisting and warping that occurs as Pressure treated dries. Not to reopen the same old debate but I have a lot of experience with PT and don't want it as a spa frame, it may not rot, but it certainly won't stay straight over time.
8. Don't have a copy of the warranty in hand right now but last time I looked it seemed pretty weak, that may have changed since last year.
I could keep going with things like ozone delivery, jets, and my thoughts on the Spa Builders Pack now that they have been bought out but I have been up all night and do not have energy for it right now. :P
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I got here late, but have to comment on one thing stuart.
"7. I don't think you can take the pressure treated frame out of the equation. Go to any lumber yard anywhere and look at the twisting and warping that occurs as Pressure treated dries. Not to reopen the same old debate but I have a lot of experience with PT and don't want it as a spa frame, it may not rot, but it certainly won't stay straight over time. "
Some, if not most of what you "see" readily available at lumber yards, and especiall the big box stores fits your description exactly. A lot of lumber that is VERY low grade is turned into pt. The majority of pt is used as a base material, having something heavy on top of it to keep it flat and straight. In these circumstances the only thing that really matters with the pt is that it doesn't rot.
That said, there IS pt available thats made from good quality lumber. It's a bit more dificult to find (especially at your local lumber yard) and a hellofa lot more expensive.. BUT, it doesn't twist and warp like the cheap stuff.
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Doc buddy! Your still functioning!? I've been wondering about you keeping so many fires buring at once and if you would be to worn out to frequent out little chats!
That said, there IS pt available thats made from good quality lumber. It's a bit more dificult to find (especially at your local lumber yard) and a hellofa lot more expensive.. BUT, it doesn't twist and warp like the cheap stuff.
I've posted several times on the debate of PT lumber and we used several different treatment processes in the children’s play sets we sold for years, all of them had a pretty high fail rate (in fact the only ones that didn't where metal and cedar). I don't claim to know it all and certainly am not an expert on PT wood but I do know that the frames I saw on Emerald could not be what you where talking about because they had warped and twisted pieces on a new spa in the showroom (granted it may have been an oddball).
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Stuart,
Thanks for the reply! The reason I asked was to hear an opinion on the competitor's product. The best person to ask about negatives IS the competition.
I'll now have to go back to the drawing board, research some more (gee thanks) and supply my kids with some more staws to blow bubbles in my bath tub! ???
Vinny