Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Max78 on September 19, 2004, 09:50:39 pm
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As a new spa owner (Optima), I'm just trying to sort out which chemicals are necessary and which ones are not. Obviously, you need some type of sanitizer (bromine, chlorine). I know that sometimes less is better but I wondered what kind of luck others had with just the "basics" (chlorine, ph increaser, ph decreaser, baking soda for alkalinity). This is what my dealer suggest as a guideline:
Metal Gone (one bottle with each new fill)
2 oz. chlorine after use of 3 or more people
2 oz. Activate after use of 1-2 people
Spa Defender (2 oz. weekly)
Natural Clear (1/2 cap weekly 24 hrs. after Defender)
I have an ozonator and a spa frog so I thought the doses of chlorine and Activate sounded a little high. I thought the chlorine needed to be maintained around 1 ppm with the ozonator. I think 2 oz. is around 3 tablespoons. I had not been putting that amount in. More like a tablespoon after use of 3 people. Is there some type of "magic" number like 1 teaspoon per person after use? My calcium hardness is not high (160) so I was wondering if the 2 oz. of Spa Defender was necessary every week. I have a test kit that measures everything (chlorine-free and combined, ph, calcium, alkalinity, CYA) and have used it with much success with my pool the last few years. My spa water was a lovely shade of florescent green (very similar to the color of the spa defender but diluted) but after a healthy dose of chlorine and running both pumps for 3 cycles, it is now cleared up. Also, after you add your chlorine after use, what cycle do you run? Just the filter cycle (pump 1 on low) or do you run it on high and run pump 2 also and for how long? Thanks for any help. I know it will be old hat after awhile. I'm just trying to get to that point.
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With the products you have, I would use 1 tsp per person of dichlor after use. Use the activate to shock weekly. Use the whole bottle of Metal Gon at fill time and alternate 2 oz of Spa Defender and the 1/2 capful of Natural Clear every other week if the Natural Clear is an enzyme product. If Natural Clear is only a flocculant, I would only use it when your water seems hazy and you can't get it clear with shock. I run my jets and air blower on high for about five minutes with the cover off.
What you want to do is get your free chlorine level up to +2ppm after use and then let it drop from there.
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Max,
I use more of a KISS method--the fewer chems, the better. Dichlor for both sanitization and shock, sodium bisulfate for pH/TA down, sodium bicarbonate for pH/TA up, sodium carbonate for pH up, defoamer mixed 50/50 with water in a spritz bottle to be used only as needed. I do have mineral filters and an ozonator. With a 450 gallon tub, 2 tsp. dichlor is a normal sanitization dose though I will sometimes use 3 if the load is high or use 1 if the load is low. 2 tbsp. is a good shock qty. usually once a week. Since my water source is a municipal water utility, I have no metal worries at fillup so Metal Gon type chems are not necessary. I'm passing on all the Spa Perfect, Spa Defender, Natural Clear products--just more chems to buy and in which to soak. Excellent water balance utilizing only the chems to achieve it are all that's necessary to keep the "innards" in good shape, IMHO. Hope this helps--good luck!
8)
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We've had our Optima for 9wks now and this is what works really well for us:
1/2bottle SwirlAway before each tub drain
8oz Metal Gon each fill up
2oz Spa Defender each week
1TBL dichlor daily
3TBL dichlor for a weekly shock
2oz Scum Gon every other week
I tend to have to up my pH and ALK about once a week, so I use an increaser for both of those.
I just ordered some MPS, I think I'm going to do an MPS shock weekly too. Any thoughts on this?
The Bright n Clear product caused too much foaming for me, I dont use it anymore. I also do not use any foamaway stuff, we rinse our suits in a soapless wash cycle and I keep my hair products out of the tub, not had much of a foam problem anymore.
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Callico-
How often do you replace the micro filter?
How often/how do you clean the pleated filter?
TIA
Brewman
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I have just tried something new as a shock this weekend. This comes from Northman's routine at rhtubs FAQ. I used two tblspoons MPS and 1 tblspoon dichlor for a shock. This also seems in line with stuarts enhanced shock. From what I've read, chlorine and mps oxidize differently and neither does the "complete job." Its like Ad-aware and Spy-bot. They both do the same thing, but there is always some adware that each misses and the other picks up.
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Thanks for everyone's input. It helps to know what others are doing. I was always a fan of the KISS method with the pool. Have used it the last few years with much success. Went the Baquacil route the first summer but after reading a lot of negative things about it (not to mention the expense), I made the switch to chlorine a few years ago. How long do you keep the cover off the hot tub after you shock? Do you keep the cover off for any amount of time after adding daily doses of chlorine? How were we able to do anything before the internet?
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I usually leave my cover off for a cycle on mine, that would be 20 minutes.
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Hi TTodd,
Do you leave the cover off for 20 minutes after shocking and after daily doses of chlorine or just after shocking?
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Its like Ad-aware and Spy-bot.
Now you're talking language I understand... 8)
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Brewman: the micro gets changed every 3mo, we've got till Oct for that. You do not rinse the micro at all. I've been told they run $45 for replacement.
The pleated filter we rinse out every week with the hose and once a month we use a spray cleaner on it. The filter looks like its not even been used, after 2+months. I probably will do an overnight soak in late Oct/Nov, after I buy a spare one.
We also take the filter socks off and clean about every other week, and once a month we are letting them soak in a bleach/water solution.
Max: we leave our cover off for an hour after shocking and after the daily dichlor, just 10-15 min.
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You may want to check on the price of that micro filter.
We pay about $15 for that one, which is probably close to suggested retail. The pleated filter may cost around $45, I think I paid $60 for mine.
Brewman
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Calico: I was not aware you were not supposed to rinse the micro filter. I did this once already. Hope I didn't do any damage. Wonder why you can rinse the pleated and not the micro?
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Hi TTodd,
Do you leave the cover off for 20 minutes after shocking and after daily doses of chlorine or just after shocking?
Usually both, then of course there was the day I just forgot for about an hour. :-[
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You may want to check on the price of that micro filter.
We pay about $15 for that one, which is probably close to suggested retail. The pleated filter may cost around $45, I think I paid $60 for mine.
Brewman
I have seen this one online for $15 also and the pleated one for $45.
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Now you're talking language I understand... 8)
Same here. Now why can't they do that in the manuals...
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For Max78
I rinse my micro clean filter off every month without harm. You cannot use any kind of cleaner on it. I dispose of the filter every four months. I can buy them at my dealer for about fifteen dollars each if I buy a years worth at once.
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I think I did have my prices wrong for the filters, I havent bought replacements yet, sorry.
I dont know why you arent supposed to rinse the micron, but our dealer said not to do that and its in the owners manual. I think the particles that are in the micron are extremely tiny so you wont really be hosing those out, and likely will just be adding more particles from your garden hose which will cause it to fill up quicker. Thats just my guess. I only know not to do it.
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I rinsed the microfilter. There is a spot that got a little torn up. This is probably why it shouldn't be rinsed - it will pull apart.
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Exactly. When I change ours, they are waterlogged, and not exactly strong. I'd hate to reinstall one and have it disintegrate into the spa water.
Brewman
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I don't see anywhere in the manual that says you specifically cannot rinse them off. It does say you cannot clean and reuse, but rinsing should not be an issue. They are heavy when wet, but not delicate. These things live to be in water.
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Our dealer said that if you rinse and reuse the micron that it would deteriote and the pieces would end up back int he tub and look like toilet paper. :P
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Ok, the manual on pg 35 does not specifically say DO NOT RINSE the micron, but it gives explicit directions for rinsing/cleaning the pleated filter and even has pictures showing a hose cleaning the pleated filter but not the micron. There are no directions or illustrations for doing any type of cleaning/rinsing of the micron, only says to replace this filter after 3mo. On page 36, it is underlined to NOT CLEAN the micron filter. I believe rinsing is considered cleaning. If the manual doesnt tell you how to clean or rinse it, and there are no supporting diagrams on how to do this like there are with the pleated, then Sundance must not intend for the micron filter to be cleaned/rinsed in any fashion.
By hosing the micron, hose water will only introduce more micro particles to be trapped. You are not going to be rinsing this tiny debris out of the filter, thats how the filter is designed...to trap and NOT RELEASE these tiny particles of debris. The technology is like the hepa filters on homes and vaccuums. The gunk goes in but doesnt come back out. The material of the micron is so dense, nothing would flush out anyhow.
This is copied from my 2004 Optima manual:
"Your Sundance hot tub is equipped with an exclusive MicroCleanTM 2-stage
filter located under the filter lid (Figure-F, Page 17). Fine debris is filtered by
the circulation pump drawing water through the smaller (stage 2) cartridge.
Larger debris is filtered by the main 2-speed pump drawing water through
the larger (stage 1) cartridge during normal operation and at each skimming/
heating cycle. Both halves work together to give you unsurpassed
water quality! To ensure optimum performance, clean and reuse the stage
1 cartridge once a month and throw-out (replace) the stage 2 cartridge
every 3 months, or as needed. Page 35"
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"The average life expectancy of the reusable stage 1 filter is approximately two years
with proper care and water quality maintenance. The smaller stage 2 filter cannot
be cleaned and must be replaced (thrown-out) every 3-months, or as needed. DO
NOT reuse this cartridge! Attempts to reuse this cartridge will reintroduce debris
back into your hot tub! Replacement cartridges may be purchased from your
Page 36"
Where it says to not reuse the micron, isnt that what you are doing when you attempt to flush/rinse and then reinstall it?
Lori
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Where it says to not reuse the micron, isnt that what you are doing when you attempt to flush/rinse and then reinstall it?
Lori
That's about how I look at it. Well stated post, btw.
Brewman
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I will continue to rinse any dirt that accumulates on the outside until it becomes an issue. Two plus years so far and one hasn't disintigrated yet. And I get four months out of mine...SD recommends changing every three months. I just like doing everything at once..water change, N2 change, filter change.
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I will continue to rinse any dirt that accumulates on the outside until it becomes an issue. Two plus years so far and one hasn't disintigrated yet. And I get four months out of mine...SD recommends changing every three months. I just like doing everything at once..water change, N2 change, filter change.
Has they Micron filter been out 2 years?
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Tony, your micron may not sustain damage from your rinsing, but are you removing any micro particles? How would you even see anything as small as .01micron? The filter is designed to trap and hold the micro particles, I think your garden hose is only adding many more particles during your rinse. I guess w/out taking filter to a lab, we will never know if its cleaner or dirtier after the rinse. I'll still stick to my manufacturer's recommendation.
This probably is not a very big deal at all, I was only explaining why Sundance doesnt recommend that the micron be rinsed at all. I do believe its best for the filter and the water to leave the micron alone and not rinse. To each his own.
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According to the 2004 Sundance brochure, the MicroClean filtration system was introduced in 2002. So I think that unless you bought a 2001 model Sundance in 2002, or not all 2002 models came with the Microclean initially, then SD tubs from 2002 forward should have the 2 part filter system.
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Just thought I'd let you know I just paid $12.59 for a micro filter from my dealer. I was pleasantly surprised that it was less than online prices I've seen - and no shipping/service charges. (I do get 10% off after purchasing the tub - but still a good price)
Spaguard chlorine concentrate was $11.65 for a 2lb container. I thought that was a pretty good price.
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Great price. I just spray the thing off, not a deep rinse.