Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: iggman on August 30, 2004, 09:14:17 pm
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Need help choosing a spa. We are interested in a larger spa appox. 8 by 10 feet. We have looked at Catalina, Sundance, D1, and Hot Springs(not as big spa). We originally liked the Catalina best because of the extras like the lights and misters. We are concerned about the warranty and reliability of Catalina based on what we have read on the web. We have not yet wet tested any but plan to do so. It will be hard to wet test the exact model because of the size. Any advice on any of these would be appreciated. Thank you, Igg.
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My dealer has a Maxxus filled on his showroom floor. Although it's not his top seller his belief is that there should be at least one for each model and then all be different finishes with varying options. His top sellers are loaded so that prospective clients can feel and see all. In total he has 5 filled tubs and when one client want to try a tub that is not filled he just switches the water from one to the other.
As for wet testing the large tubs in your area. I would call the dealers including some that are far away from the same line, and see if they have a model of a large tub on their fgloor. they may be agreeable to set it up for you to wet test.
Just a thought.
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We originally liked the Catalina best because of the extras like the lights and misters.
You can put misters over or around any tub very inexpensively, and the fancy lights tend to be more fun at first than they are down the road.
Go for things like:
Warranty
Comfort
Jet variety
Low-cost operation (well insulated)
Adjustable jets
Adjustable jet pressure
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Can think of two spas that might fit your criteria. One is Master Spas LSX1050. 120x94x39 inches, four 6.5 HP pumps. 150sq ft filtration, 84 jets. Lots of room and plenty of therapy.
The other is the Downeast East Hampton. Same measurements, 51 jets, two 4.5 hp pumps. Has more of an open setting than the 1050 does.
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“Can think of two spas that might fit your criteria. One is Master Spas LSX1050. 120x94x39 inches, four 6.5 HP pumps. 150sq ft filtration, 84 jets. Lots of room and plenty of therapy. “
I'm a little ignorant on the Master Spa, but with 84 Jets and four 6.5 HP pumps!! I’ll take two. What kind of amperage do those 6.5HP pumps draw? Hotspring uses a 50-amp service for their two 2.5 HP pumps on the Vista. Would that mean I would need 250-amp service for that spa?
Chris H
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“Can think of two spas that might fit your criteria. One is Master Spas LSX1050. 120x94x39 inches, four 6.5 HP pumps. 150sq ft filtration, 84 jets. Lots of room and plenty of therapy. “
I'm a little ignorant on the Master Spa, but with 84 Jets and four 6.5 HP pumps!! I’ll take two. What kind of amperage do those 6.5HP pumps draw? Hotspring uses a 50-amp service for their two 2.5 HP pumps on the Vista. Would that mean I would need 250-amp service for that spa?
Chris H
spaguy was just a touch off the mark. The 1050 is just like my LSX with regards to pumps and electrical specs. There are 3 therapy pumps and 1 circ pump. A 50 amp, 240 volt circuit is required.
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I’m still a little confused. How can Master Spa have three 6.5 HP therapy pumps and only require a 50 Amp service, where Hotspring has only two 2.5 HP therapy pumps and they require a 50 Amp service. That is a difference of 14.5 HP.
How can that be that they only require a 50 Amp service with such high horsepower? Those Master Spas must really use extremely energy efficient pumps compared to Hotspring. With those 6.5 HP pumps I would expect that spa to shoot me to the moon with so much power.
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Try it, you might like it ... as the old saying goes. Master puts very nice 56 frame pumps in their Legend series line. Give one a wet test sometime.
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Can think of two spas that might fit your criteria. One is Master Spas LSX1050.
My friend has this one and it is comfortable, I enjoyed with 5 of us in it. The only negative is $250 worth of replacement filters.
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My friend has this one and it is comfortable, I enjoyed with 5 of us in it. The only negative is $250 worth of replacement filters.
Let's get the information correct from a Master Spas owner:
The EcoPur mineral filters (2) cost about $50 to replace every six months (manufacturer's recommendation). As N2 performs the same function as the EcoPur mineral filters, what do N2 replacements cost and how often? With proper care, the outer (micro) filters (2) should last between 1.5-2.5 years. The square macro filter will, with care, probably last many years unless abused. I hardly think this is "negative".
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My friend has this one and it is comfortable, I enjoyed with 5 of us in it. The only negative is $250 worth of replacement filters.
They have actually changed the design of the filters. The manufacturing cost has been decreased with a new design WSD is using the new style "Standpipe" filters. The "older' style WAS very costly. The new style can be retrofitted to any of the older tubs.
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They have actually changed the design of the filters. The manufacturing cost has been decreased with a new design WSD is using the new style "Standpipe" filters. The "older' style WAS very costly. The new style can be retrofitted to any of the older tubs.
Good to know, I"ll pass that on to my friend and stop mentioning it when someone mentions that tub.
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Let's get the information correct from a Master Spas owner:
The EcoPur mineral filters (2) cost about $50 to replace every six months (manufacturer's recommendation). As N2 performs the same function as the EcoPur mineral filters, what do N2 replacements cost and how often? With proper care, the outer (micro) filters (2) should last between 1.5-2.5 years. The square macro filter will, with care, probably last many years unless abused. I hardly think this is "negative".
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Let’s get the information really correct from someone who has sold well over a million dollars in Master Spas and had problems with all of them so I stopped!
I don't know where your buying your EcoPur filters but most dealers sell them around $39.95 or more each. 80 % of all the square macro filters that where on the tubs we sold failed, Master spa told us to tell the customers they really didn't need them and pull them out (why did they put them in). The clip system on the macro filter is very weak and breaks often. I could go on if you would like? How about the extremely thin steel used in the frame with very little support? They say that it is automotive grade, if that’s so shouldn't they paint it to keep it from rusting (like it has on almost every TV carriage in the STS’s)? Lets talk about the rubber base that gets torn from the metal corners leaving the cabinet exposed to rodents or, the fragile cabinets that you have to be careful not to hit with anything or they will break, we found it was easier to just remove them for delivery. I don't know when you got your spa but they have made some very cheap changes.
I like the power and massage from a Master and the stereo sounds great when it is working (we had failure on 80% of those too!) but IMO the quality of the materials and workmanship will not hold up over time.
I would guess that you sell Master as most customers aren’t quite as versed on the nomenclature of trademark names on each item on their spa nor do they use the trade mark spelling on things like EcoPur so I understand your need to defend your brand but be a little more realistic in your pricing and lifespan of consumables, there is enough buffoonery in Masters sales pitch already without pulling the wool over the eyes of the customers for how they will take care of the product.
I can elaborate much more if you would like just let me know......
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Yeah, Stuart, please, please elaborate more since you seem to know everything there is about Master Spas. I would certainly be entertained to read more of your drivel and watch your reputation continue to erode on this board. Certainly you've got a spur under your saddle concerning Master Spas as your commentary is loaded with attitude and opinion but void of facts. I do not need to defend Master Spas to the likes of you or anyone else who chooses to troll with inane criticism. Leave it to say that I find your judgment rather shallow and transparent--a reflection, if you will. I'll be more than happy to share my opinions and facts regarding my spa to anyone who is seeking opinions/facts in a sincere manner.
As for your claim that I am somehow associated with Master Spas in any way other than being an informed consumer, please search for all my posts in this and Doc's forums dating back about 1.5 years and tell me what you see. Congratulations--your hole has gotten deeper.
Nice try.
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Stuart,
Since you seem to know a lot about Master Spas can you elaborate on my horsepower issue that was raised? I’m still trying to figure out how they get 19.5 HP on a 50Amp service. Could they be lying to me about the true HP on their spa? Could the HP be part of the “buffoonery sales pitch?”
Your hole isn’t that deep in my book. You have another 2 feet to go. I have a shovel if you want it.
Chris H
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Stuart,
Since you seem to know a lot about Master Spas can you elaborate on my horsepower issue that was raised? I’m still trying to figure out how they get 19.5 HP on a 50Amp service. Could they be lying to me about the true HP on their spa? Could the HP be part of the “buffoonery sales pitch?”
Your hole isn’t that deep in my book. You have another 2 feet to go. I have a shovel if you want it.
Chris H
The obvious answer would be that Master quotes the VERY deceptive "brake" HP rating and may also have it set up to turn off the heater if all 3 pumps are running. I have little respect for companies that rate in brake HP only as they ABSOLUTELY know that many customers will be fooled by this. I've seen it many times where people can't understand why brand X has a 5.0 HP pump while the same size brand Y is 2.5 HP until you explain it to them. Their reaction is always to conclude someone has been trying to deceive them.
I decided to see what MasterSpas website shows. The very reputable companies will generally quote the continuous HP and in parenthesis quote the brake (or vice versa) to let everyone know what it REALLY has and give them a basis for comparison. On Master's site I went to their showroom and to each spa and found a link that says "CLICK HERE FOR COMPLETE SPECIFICATIONS". In doing so the spec comes up and sure enough they state that they rate their pumps in break (sic) HP and don't bother to tell the customer what they really need to know, the continuous HP. That is ridiculous. I can only assume their dealer literature also shows everything in HP. That's kind of like opening a 16 oz bottle of beer and finding that the brewery only puts 9 oz in it.
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Stuart,
Since you seem to know a lot about Master Spas can you elaborate on my horsepower issue that was raised? I’m still trying to figure out how they get 19.5 HP on a 50Amp service. Could they be lying to me about the true HP on their spa? Could the HP be part of the “buffoonery sales pitch?”
Your hole isn’t that deep in my book. You have another 2 feet to go. I have a shovel if you want it.
Chris H
I would be happy to elaborate! The math as far as I know from talking to motor manufactures is this; you need 3 amps for every 1 HP of continuous operation in a pump motor. This would mean that a spa with a total of 19.5 HP would draw 58.5 amps before it ever turns on the heater (which should be close to 20 amps) or anything else. In addition, to meet code you would have to be at least 25% over this for your breaker size. This would mean that by the time you included ozone and light you would need more than a 100 amp breaker! I don't think they recommend over a 60 amp on any Master spa so I to would have to question the honesty of the HP rating in that spa.
Funny, I'm questioning quality based on real experience and not throwing out insults or jabs. My comments were left there to solicit answers not to see if I could get windsurfdog on the defensive about who I am. I did not throw out "inane criticism" yet brought up points of concern I had with the product. I would call his tone towards me inane criticism. As far as my reputation, I don't think it is in question here or on any other forum other than JA's site where I refuse to post and be at his control for what is deleted or not. I have pictures of the spas that are current and very self explanatory but have yet to figure out how to post a pic. I will try to do that tonight or in the AM.
I know for a fact that there are good Master spa dealers out there and that can make the difference between their mediocre quality and the exceptional quality of other brands however, Master built a huge percentage of their business on rebate programs and spa shows that they "set up" by choosing what other spas where in the show so they could make their product look better.
I do choose to dig this hole bigger and most certainly will! I’m in the middle of 2 shows and limited on time so I think it would be worth my while to pull a chapter out of Masters own book by having my IT person create a page in my stead outlining the issues and points I brought out complete with pictures. I will have him post a link when he is done with that. In the mean time bash away but use any strong points you know on the product as your ammo rather than mindless attacks on me.
I'll be back gotta go buy a new shovel......
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look at the Sundance Maxxus and the Dimension One Serena Bay these are the only tubs in that size that I would recommend. I'm not impressed by Master Spas.
FWIW
my $.02
IMHO
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well everyone has opinions. Whats good for one is not necessarily good for another. If you like it, buy it regardless of brand. As long as you, your wallet/pocketbook are happy, then thats all that matters.
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Stuart,
Please, facts only. Read your first post, take out the opinions that were stated as facts and here's what you've got left:
"I like the power and massage from a Master and the stereo sounds great when it is working (we had failure on 80% of those too!) but IMO the quality of the materials and workmanship will not hold up over time."
The rest is also your opinion though not stated as such.
I'll be glad to report back to you in.....how many days/months/years of service are you giving my LSX that was delivered on 7/11/04? Don't be shy to predict when my rat infested tub frame will crumble from rust as the overrated motors spew water over the state of Florida. In the meantime, keep digging and enjoy your spur.....
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Of the spas that you mentioned and getting the size that you want, the Sundance and D-1 are definitely the 2 best of the 4. Better than the master spas.
Better manufacturing, better warranty, more energy efficient. All of which will save you time, money and frustration in the long run.
If a dealer is really concerned about meeting your needs, they will be more than happy to fill and power up the specific spa that you are considering. If not, then I wouldn't do business with them. It's alot of money.
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Of the spas that you mentioned and getting the size that you want, the Sundance and D-1 are definitely the 2 best of the 4. Better than the master spas.
Better manufacturing, better warranty, more energy efficient. All of which will save you time, money and frustration in the long run.
Looks like rocket chooses to join those that would blur the lines of fact and opinion. If he has proof that Sundance and D1 have better manufacturing, better warranty and more energy efficient, he should belly up with facts to support his assertions.
iggman,
Please do yourself a favor and listen to Chas and others like him. If you want to listen to me, here's my advice:
Wet test, wet test, wet test. Find a good dealer that you trust and find a tub that is comfortable to you. You asked about large tubs and you now should wet test all that have been suggested. I feel you would be very happy with the Sundance, the D1 or (horrors!) the Master Spa. As a Master Spa owner, I can tell you factually and truthfully that I am ecstatic with my spa choice and now only time will tell if I will remain as happy (Stuart, got that prediction ready yet?). Read my review on the LSX in the reviews section--I took the time to give both my opnions and some facts about the LSX from my actual experiences. And also read as much as you can about the Optima, Chairman II and Lotus Bay because you will find many more people who own these and they can be favorably compared to their larger counterparts.
Separate the facts from the opinions and enjoy your search.
Let the MasterBashers continue to drivel on......
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I would be happy to answer the horsepower question on the master spa for stuart.
Physically impossible. There would be too much amerage drawn for a 50 amp circuit to handle! Talk to any electrician or consult UL or National Electric Code
concerning the draw of electric motors and circuits.
Any spa company boasting of hp and jet count is doing this industry a disservice and misleading (lying to) customers.
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I would be happy to answer the horsepower question on the master spa for stuart.
Physically impossible. There would be too much amerage drawn for a 50 amp circuit to handle! Talk to any electrician or consult UL or National Electric Code
concerning the draw of electric motors and circuits.
Any spa company boasting of hp and jet count is doing this industry a disservice and misleading (lying to) customers.
Why don't you answer your own assertions and let Stuart do his own homework?
Look, it boils down to this--as an informed consumer one can see right through the horsepower, number of jets bull without any problem. If one cares to hang their hat on everything any manufacturer claims without question, then one is a fool. Advertising is just that--advertising. Just do the homework and leave the drivel out of it. I will not justify Master Spas' use of "6.5 hp" or "77 jets" or anything else that they may say to sell their product. I've separated the fluff from the substance and found the substance to be quite appealing.
Drivel on........
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I would say that it should be obvious: no machine can have that much horsepower and run on a 50 amp 220 volt (single phase) service.
A horspower is 745 Watts, or about 3.5 amps at 220 volts. That means that if you shut off the heater, blower, everything except the jet pumps, the max you could support would be just over 11 horsepower.That is based on 80% of the 50 amp limit- which is what the NEC limits a branch circuit to. That is all based on pure numbers, meaning that my example does not allow for inefficiencies in the wiring, motors, etc.
BUT - most people don't want to shut off the heat when the jets are on. So - if you have a 6000 watt heater (27 amps) you only have 13 amps left to play with, or 4 horsepower max - again, based on only being able to legally pull 40 amps on a 50 amp breaker. Hot Spring just added larger 2.5 HP pumps to a couple of our models, and to accomodate the extra motor power we dropped those models to a 4000 watt heater. All of our systems can run at the same time, on a 50 amp run. That's a real, honest five horse system, and it kicks butt. Try it.
SO - either Master spa is using phony numbers on it's pump ratings - which is very common these days - or they have rigged the tubs so you can only run one pump at a time, or the heater goes off when the jets come on, or?
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SO - either Master spa is using phony numbers on it's pump ratings - which is very common these days - or they have rigged the tubs so you can only run one pump at a time, or the heater goes off when the jets come on, or?
... Master spa pumps use miniture horses that run 52 watts per leg :P
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Chas, empolgation, Chris_H, d1chairmanII, rocket, Spatech t.u.o.,
Thanks for digging into the "hole" with me! Maybe if we all dig together we can find some treasure here!
I hope Spatech brought a whole case of that half full beer, we might be here awhile!
That's kind of like opening a 16 oz bottle of beer and finding that the brewery only puts 9 oz in it.
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Still waiting for your predictions, Stuart.
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I was going to stay out of this little discussion but......fools rush in, especially when they read something that just irks them.
Although I am not an engineer, I have a number of them that work for me. Welcome to my world! :P They are a great bunch though.
There are two constants in the universe. The first is that the math never lies. This I learned from these engineers. The second is that perception is always 9/10th of reality. So when you are told something that leaves you with the impression that something in particular is far superior to something else, I tend to say......hummmmm! Why is that. Others would simply say the math does'nt lie so it must be great.
What Stuart, Chas, Spatech and a number of others have posted is correct. I don't see much opinion in many of those posts, especially when they write something based on mathematical fact. They stated exactly what the math proves. Some just don't seem to like the answer. Tubs have been purchased for very personal reasons, and the final truism was probably the wet test which does not fall into any of the two constants I noted above.
As a recent buyer, I found it very frustrating to compare the so many different products out there when it came time to look at the specifics. I was explained that a particular tub has a HP of X power and when I visited other dealers was explained something very different. >:( Those that were giving me high numbers of course were quoting the Break HP. Once I was explained what the difference is between these two very different sets of numbers I then went back to all of the dealers that had quoted me in Break HP to get the continuous HP. And lo and behold all of a sudden you had a very different picture that you could then compare more intelligently. Interestingly enough, some did not (could not?) give me that number.
I don't profess to promote one product over another here, because we all bought our tub based individual preferences and experiences. But quoting the break HP is very misleading because it has nothing to do with the actual strength of the pumps when it comes to moving water and its energy efficiency when it comes to consumption.
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I don't profess to promote one product over another here, because we all bought our tub based individual preferences and experiences. But quoting the break HP is very misleading because it has nothing to do with the actual strength of the pumps when it comes to moving water and its energy efficiency when it comes to consumption.
Finally, someone who speaks without a spur and a shovel. Thanks, doodoo, you've summed up my point succinctly. And though I didn't quote the balance of your post, I agree in totality. What I did quote is the entire crux of this thread.
Welcome to the wonderful world of advertising!
When one is contemplating a major purchase, one shouldn't walk into a showroom with Christmas morning eyes and a pocket full of cash. It takes time and effort to sift through the mountain of information that each dealer/manufacturer produces. I paid absolutely no attention at all regarding Master Spas' claim of 6.5 hp--I sat in the tub full of water on the showroom floor and liked what I felt--period. I laughed at/with the dealer when he told me the LSX had 77 jets....heck I counted'em....and when you count the 2 MasterBlaster jets with 15 nozzles each as 30, sure enough you get 77! Marketing.....pure marketing. It doesn't take a degree from Harvard to see through it. Yet, some on this board refuse to separate fact from opinion and, yes, marketing. If anyone wishes to continue this thread, enjoy. And if anyone wishes to read this thread, I suggest they start at the top and read to the bottom and make their own conclusions. Done.
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Thanks everyone for answering my horsepower question. Even though I knew the answer when I asked it. I really just wanted some reputable regular “posters” to say that the break horsepower was misleading. Thank you all for doing so. Yes, I do consider Stuart reputable, but keep digging. I’ll be over with my bobcat this weekend to help you out.
My reason for “stirring the pot” was because over at the poolsearch.com website there is a thread called “Hotsprings Spa” and in that thread includes a response “Check out Master Spas. Steel frame construction, 56 frame pumps, magnetic therapy. 6 HP pumps..” I absolutely hate those posts. I don’t want this to happen on this forum.
The original poster “iggman” specifically asked about Catalina, Sundance, D1, and Hot Springs. Not Master.
Spaguyohio, why would you even bring that brand up? In my opinion it is just plain rude to do so especially when you are obviously misleading him with your original post saying the spa has 4 – 6.5 HP pumps. Even on Master’s website, it says 3 - 6HP pumps. You are doing Master a disservice when you promote your product incorrectly.
In my opinion (always remember opinions are like a**holes everyone has one), Master is doing a disservice to the industry for not ever using continuous HP rating in their marketing so the product can be compared to other brands correctly.
Windsurfdog, you are correct it is marketing. However, to the “average joe” 26HP is obviously better than 5HP. Most don’t know you are quoting them in break HP and not continuous HP. Most consumers aren’t as smart as you.
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Thanks, doodoo, you've summed up my point succinctly.
Glad to see your post. I think? But in actual fact I was not pushing your point or trying to prove it. If you read that in my post then I need to change it.
You're right though in that it does boil down to marketing, and that is what I find deceptive because it in fact distorts what reality is.
That is why I agreed with the others because they proved their point based on math. I hate it when the marketing practices of some companies position their product as superior because of the HP strength which is quoted in break HP rather than continuous HP. You saw right through it whereas I required significant explanation.
I'm not as smart as some and rather than sell me something based on merit, some companies resort to pratices that are ........well...... less than honest. by making me believe that their product is better and stronger than others.
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I heard the Sundance Maxxus is getting redesigned for 2005.
Something about excersizing in hot water leading to health issues!!! Duh -
Anyway - who cares about HP. Whatever the HP is in my Optima, I can't imagine the jets being any stronger.
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Whatever the HP is in my Optima, I can't imagine the jets being any stronger.
Pump 1: 2-speed/2.5 hp continuous, 4.2 hp brake
Pump 2: 1-speed/2.5 hp continuous, 4.2 hp brake
And you are absolutely correct the jets are strong enough. ANy stronger would blast me out.......
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IMO, good engineering makes more sense than lots of HP.
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Very simple as to why I mentioned it. I like the product. I won the product. Ive seen people post questions about Master, and everyone else jumps in with other brands.
A lot of people dont know that brand X or brand Y exists because all they know is from friends, etc. I know several folks who have bought brand A after literally knowing that it didnt exist in their neighborhood, but after trying they liked it.
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spaguyohio,
I too think its rude when people ask SPECIFICALLY what others thing about brands A, B and C and the response they get from others is "You really should check out Brand X". Also, if you're going to quote those DECEIVING HP ratings that Master spews out how about typing it as "6 BHP" instead of simply "6HP" which is flat out deceitful.
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OK Windy!
Lets dig this hole deeper while I have a minuet. I assumed you worked for Master out of your knowledge of trademarked names as I said. I also assumed this because of your constant touting of the product. Let’s leave it at you claiming to be an informed customer that has nothing better to do with your time but hang out on spa forums and venomously push master spas and me not being able to comprehend what would drive a customer to that for 1.5 years.
If you are just a customer then that means you own 1 spa and from the looks of it have not owned it long. You’re pushing the brand as if you’re an expert on it having only purchased one? I’ve purchased 1000’s of spas! In a years time I am directly or indirectly involved in over 900 service calls through several stores. I have worked in this industry for well over a third of my life and I have delivered more Master Spas personally myself than you have probably seen, so who do you think would have more experience and expertise you or I?
You claim my statements where opinions and wanted fact? You want the truth? I don’t know if you can handle the truth! The truth is 2 out of every three Master spas we delivered had problems, the truth is I have boxes of jets in my back room at any given time that are jets from the masters and downeast I sold that we have to replace on a weekly basis. Here is a fun story for you - I had a customer that insisted on a 1050 LS long after we stopped selling them. I told him of the problems, explained that we were still a dealer and could get the product but we did not like the service nightmares. He still insisted on that spa! When we delivered it (after waiting almost 8 weeks to get it) the shell was cracked and the cabinet was falling apart. We left the spa for him to use because we knew the replacement would take forever, 2 hours after firing it up the control panel burned up from a loose fitting from the factory. We replaced the board and the radio did not work but knowing we would be replacing the spa he decided to wait. The new spa finally came in and when we delivered it we could not get the floating remotes to work, some of the jets would not stay in and we had to use cabinet panels off of both spas to get one good set (BTW, we removed them for the delivery as they would have broken). This saga is not over as he is still having problems with it.
I can share a different true story about problems we have had with master every week if you would like but would rather not take the time. If you want me to continue this I’m willing.
You post some decent posts on this forum and I have yet to attack your reputation but I gotta tell you, I have more ammo on this than you want to have me bring out and you have yet to give substantiated info other than sarcastic jabs.
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OK, Stuart, one last post in this thread......
I respect the amount of time you have spent in this field. I respect the knowledge you have accumulated over the years. I appreciate your comments about other posts I have made on this and Doc's boards. If you notice, this is the ONLY thread where I have posted, in your words, "venomously". You must understand why I would bristle after being falsely accused as some type of MS representative. (Please go back and read this thread with this in mind.) I didn't know you from Adam's housecat yet I was being accosted for trying to help clear the air about filter costs (and continuing to be accosted with phrases like "Let’s leave it at you claiming to be an informed customer that has nothing better to do with your time but hang out on spa forums..." I guess it takes 2 to tango.)
Yes, spaguy quoted from MS's literature/website.
Yes the HP and jet numbers are marketing.
No, not all MS spas are pieces of garbage.
Yes, I am basing my opinions on the very first spa I've owned--after 51 years of life on this good planet.
No, I don't consider myself an expert at all--informed yes. (Please go back and read this thread with this in mind.)
Yes, I am a very happy spa owner--so far.
No, I don't believe that every MS you've sold has resulted in an unhappy customer.
Yes, I believe you, like all other spa retailers, have had problems in the past. I just have a problem with your representation/recollections of the volume of these problems--your comments/attitude lead to 100%.
Yes, I'd love to hear more of your horror stories as I'd like to hear more of Chas' or any other retailer that posts here. Feel free to continue on, if you wish.
And if you feel your threats to attack my reputation are taken with anything less than a chuckle, by all means, please bring your "ammo" to bear. Otherwise, truce--I truly don't care which.
For all others reading this thread, you decide......
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thanks for all the advice, we are starting to wet test this weekend with d1 and sundance. We will let you know how it goes!!!
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Iggie:
I did Sudance and will do D1 after my "tutf-toe" heals..
Let's compare
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Surfdog,
Sorry that you took my comment as a threat to your reputation! I meant that I could go on and on with the ammo I have gathered from the product. I did not mean it to sound like I was questioning your reputation but rather you needed to stop questioning mine.
Yes your absolutely right, we have happy master customers but I paid a toll personally to make that happen far above and beyond the support I got from the factory.
BTW, As an industry professional I get a lot out of these boards. I learn things every day that help me help my customers. And yes, I have a burr under my saddle concerning Master. If you and several of you friends all got food poisoning from McDonalds you would do your best to warn others. I do feel the need to explain the issues and warn of pending problems. I can tell you this I still have many people at Master that I like and respect and I hope they take my posts to heart and use the info to better their company and product.
When I'm done with the fair I will post the pictures I mentioned if only for referance and will probably do it with a web page, in the mean time truce accepted…
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thanks for all the advice, we are starting to wet test this weekend with d1 and sundance. We will let you know how it goes!!!
spend a good long time in the D1 Massage Sequencer seats, you don't get the full effect unless you are in there for a good 15 min. I spent an hour with my massage sequencer this morning ;D.
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spend a good long time in the D1 Massage Sequencer seats, you don't get the full effect unless you are in there for a good 15 min. I spent an hour with my massage sequencer this morning ;D.
You know, this is a very good point! This is what I have said many times about wet testing, we scrutinize the tub to hard sometimes without thinking of how it was designed to best perform. I didn't get to excited about the sequential massage seat either the first time I tried it but I too didn't appreciate the "full effect" of that massage until I tried it at a friends house and sat in it for about 30 minuets, WOW what a massage!
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WOW.
Blow my mind. I thought this forum hosted a little more class, and proffesionalism. I am absolutely amazed.