Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Botswana on March 27, 2018, 04:11:47 pm
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Hey All -
I have a continual problem with my 2016 Caldera Vanto randomly tripping the GFCI breaker in the spa box. The break trips randomly when not being used. It never trips when manually being used. It happens some time when its filtering, heating, or just sitting there in the night/day. The serviceman came out the first time and saw the pump seal leaking so he replaced it, and it went about a month without tripping, but then it did. Then 2 weeks later it tripped again, the two weeks later..again. He came out today and checked out the breaker and was testing loads. Turn the spa on and let it run for 40 mins and none of his electrical testing resulted in anything even close to being alarming. I have also already replaced the breaker and the wiring from the breaker to the tub in hopes of fixing it. This was the last warranty trip as it is now out of warranty. The guy suggested waiting until something is more reproducible to call them back so they can try to trace it, but I hate having to check my hot tub everyday to make sure its on so that it doesn't freeze or the water quality doesn't get crappy. Every aspect of the hot tub works perfectly..heater, lights, all pump speeds, everything. Anyone have a suggestion? I feel like the only thing to do is replace the breaker AGAIN, but he even said it was unlikely as it didn't get hot and this hot tub doesn't even pull anything close the the 50amps its rated for.
I've already spent countless hours doing research and just cannot find anything besides the typical person saying its the heater...which shows no signs of it being the case in this situation.
The tub is wired correctly, before someone throws out the whole fact that people mess up the wiring a lot. It is wired directly in the spa box and is the only thing wired on the breaker inside the house. It is also wired with heavy duty 6 gauge through PVC with all the joints glued together. There is no water getting into the tubes, and the tub trips on perfectly dry days. He had all the covers to the breaker and the tub off today when it was pouring rain when he was diagnosing and it wouldn't even trip, so im confident its not a water problem. There has also never been any water seen in the breaker box or in the spa by the pumps/controls
He also said the temperatures all seemed reasonable..touched the pumps...tried to move things around to make sure nothing was loose, etc.
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Hey All -
I have a continual problem with my 2016 Caldera Vanto randomly tripping the GFCI breaker in the spa box. The break trips randomly when not being used. It never trips when manually being used. It happens some time when its filtering, heating, or just sitting there in the night/day. The serviceman came out the first time and saw the pump seal leaking so he replaced it, and it went about a month without tripping, but then it did. Then 2 weeks later it tripped again, the two weeks later..again. He came out today and checked out the breaker and was testing loads. Turn the spa on and let it run for 40 mins and none of his electrical testing resulted in anything even close to being alarming. I have also already replaced the breaker and the wiring from the breaker to the tub in hopes of fixing it. This was the last warranty trip as it is now out of warranty. The guy suggested waiting until something is more reproducible to call them back so they can try to trace it, but I hate having to check my hot tub everyday to make sure its on so that it doesn't freeze or the water quality doesn't get crappy. Every aspect of the hot tub works perfectly..heater, lights, all pump speeds, everything. Anyone have a suggestion? I feel like the only thing to do is replace the breaker AGAIN, but he even said it was unlikely as it didn't get hot and this hot tub doesn't even pull anything close the the 50amps its rated for.
I've already spent countless hours doing research and just cannot find anything besides the typical person saying its the heater...which shows no signs of it being the case in this situation.
The tub is wired correctly, before someone throws out the whole fact that people mess up the wiring a lot. It is wired directly in the spa box and is the only thing wired on the breaker inside the house. It is also wired with heavy duty 6 gauge through PVC with all the joints glued together. There is no water getting into the tubes, and the tub trips on perfectly dry days. He had all the covers to the breaker and the tub off today when it was pouring rain when he was diagnosing and it wouldn't even trip, so im confident its not a water problem. There has also never been any water seen in the breaker box or in the spa by the pumps/controls
He also said the temperatures all seemed reasonable..touched the pumps...tried to move things around to make sure nothing was loose, etc.
These are the toughest kind of problems for a tech. You can't replicate the problem but yet it keeps happening. There is a rhyme and reason to it you just haven't seen it yet.
Has it ever happened when you are using the tub? You didn't mention if you had a circulation pump besides the jet pump/s?
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Nuisance tripping is a pain in the arse. Only real way to solve it is one start replacing parts, which is expensive. Or start un-plugging things one at a time and let it run to see if it trips again. Start with ozone if it has one, run for a week. then pump 2 then pump one, or like mentioned does it have a circ pump. Most times it's the ozone.
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No circulation pump and ozone is optional. I just went through something similar with a customer who has a 2017 Caldera Marino. Random breaker trips, but never could replicate it. Replaced the main control box and it has been problem free since.
Not saying that is your issue, but it solved my customers.
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No ozone and no circ pump. The tech just replaced one of the pumps so I'd like to think it certainly wouldn't be that one. I figured I'd try to disconnect the heater first when it warms up a lil and there's no chance of freezing. To do this, do I just pull the wires off the main board? I tried previously and they seemed on there pretty tight...
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No circulation pump and ozone is optional. I just went through something similar with a customer who has a 2017 Caldera Marino. Random breaker trips, but never could replicate it. Replaced the main control box and it has been problem free since.
Not saying that is your issue, but it solved my customers.
I really hope this isn't my issue. Is there anyway to test the main board? Also, what is the trouble shooting that led you to replacing it? Had you replaced any other parts before that? If it keeps tripping after unplugging all of the components (both pumps and heater) would that mean its the board?
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Hey All -
I have a continual problem with my 2016 Caldera Vanto randomly tripping the GFCI breaker in the spa box. The break trips randomly when not being used. It never trips when manually being used. It happens some time when its filtering, heating, or just sitting there in the night/day. The serviceman came out the first time and saw the pump seal leaking so he replaced it, and it went about a month without tripping, but then it did. Then 2 weeks later it tripped again, the two weeks later..again. He came out today and checked out the breaker and was testing loads. Turn the spa on and let it run for 40 mins and none of his electrical testing resulted in anything even close to being alarming. I have also already replaced the breaker and the wiring from the breaker to the tub in hopes of fixing it. This was the last warranty trip as it is now out of warranty. The guy suggested waiting until something is more reproducible to call them back so they can try to trace it, but I hate having to check my hot tub everyday to make sure its on so that it doesn't freeze or the water quality doesn't get crappy. Every aspect of the hot tub works perfectly..heater, lights, all pump speeds, everything. Anyone have a suggestion? I feel like the only thing to do is replace the breaker AGAIN, but he even said it was unlikely as it didn't get hot and this hot tub doesn't even pull anything close the the 50amps its rated for.
I've already spent countless hours doing research and just cannot find anything besides the typical person saying its the heater...which shows no signs of it being the case in this situation.
The tub is wired correctly, before someone throws out the whole fact that people mess up the wiring a lot. It is wired directly in the spa box and is the only thing wired on the breaker inside the house. It is also wired with heavy duty 6 gauge through PVC with all the joints glued together. There is no water getting into the tubes, and the tub trips on perfectly dry days. He had all the covers to the breaker and the tub off today when it was pouring rain when he was diagnosing and it wouldn't even trip, so im confident its not a water problem. There has also never been any water seen in the breaker box or in the spa by the pumps/controls
He also said the temperatures all seemed reasonable..touched the pumps...tried to move things around to make sure nothing was loose, etc.
These are the toughest kind of problems for a tech. You can't replicate the problem but yet it keeps happening. There is a rhyme and reason to it you just haven't seen it yet.
Has it ever happened when you are using the tub? You didn't mention if you had a circulation pump besides the jet pump/s?
To date, out of the probably 15 random trips, only one time did it happen when I pushed the JETS button. The rest are when the tub is not in use. When he came today he had his megger on and checked readings with all different types of button pushes on the spa (jets, heat up/down, lights, etc..). I cant remember what pump it was trying to activate when it happened to me and one of them has been replaced since then for a leaking seal.
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Nuisance tripping is a pain in the arse. Only real way to solve it is one start replacing parts, which is expensive. Or start un-plugging things one at a time and let it run to see if it trips again. Start with ozone if it has one, run for a week. then pump 2 then pump one, or like mentioned does it have a circ pump. Most times it's the ozone.
The only problem is it takes 2 weeks to a month to trip!! I am going to start with this though. On the caldera main board, do I just follow the wires for say Jet 1 to the main board and pull off the connecting at the main board? Same with the heater? or do I disconnect at the actual heater terminals..I assume everything is just plug'n'play style so they can be pulled off the main board easily..
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Honestly, I think it was dumb luck we discovered it. After the last GFCI trip, we advised the customer to leave it and my tech came out with our electrician the same day. When he reset the breaker, the dual speed pump was making an odd noise, similar to that if bearings were going out. Initially, he assumed pump, so we replaced the pump. Still had the same issue with a new pump. Further investigation determined the board was sending power to both low and high speed of the pump at the same time. We put the old pump back in, new spa pack, reflashed software and have been good since.
Had the pump not been making odd noises, then we may still be searching for answers.
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Nuisance tripping is a pain in the arse. Only real way to solve it is one start replacing parts, which is expensive. Or start un-plugging things one at a time and let it run to see if it trips again. Start with ozone if it has one, run for a week. then pump 2 then pump one, or like mentioned does it have a circ pump. Most times it's the ozone.
The only problem is it takes 2 weeks to a month to trip!! I am going to start with this though. On the caldera main board, do I just follow the wires for say Jet 1 to the main board and pull off the connecting at the main board? Same with the heater? or do I disconnect at the actual heater terminals..I assume everything is just plug'n'play style so they can be pulled off the main board easily..
You really cannot disconnect the dual speed pump since that is the pump that feeds the heater.
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Nuisance tripping is a pain in the arse. Only real way to solve it is one start replacing parts, which is expensive. Or start un-plugging things one at a time and let it run to see if it trips again. Start with ozone if it has one, run for a week. then pump 2 then pump one, or like mentioned does it have a circ pump. Most times it's the ozone.
The only problem is it takes 2 weeks to a month to trip!! I am going to start with this though. On the caldera main board, do I just follow the wires for say Jet 1 to the main board and pull off the connecting at the main board? Same with the heater? or do I disconnect at the actual heater terminals..I assume everything is just plug'n'play style so they can be pulled off the main board easily..
You really cannot disconnect the dual speed pump since that is the pump that feeds the heater.
Okay, so whats the play here? Disconnect the heater first? If that's not the issue, then what? How do I trouble shoot that pump? I presume its okay to unplug the other (single speed) pump since it doesn't feed the heater? Also, I asked the tech again today and he said they were the same pumps...maybe I phrased my question poorly and he meant they are the same as the manufacturer since one was replaced, but I was seeking confirmation that one of the pumps is 2 speed while the other isn't.
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The pumps are different. One is a 1-speed and the other a 2-speed. I would start with disconnecting the 2-speed pump. If you did have an ozone installed or stereo, disconnect those too. I don’t think the heater is the issue. If a heater is bad and trips the breaker, rarely will you be able to reset the breaker, it will continuously trip because the heater has a dead short.
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As has been mentioned intermittent problems are very tough to trouble shoot.
First it’s important to understand the difference between a GFCI and a Breaker. You said you changed the Breaker in the house that feeds the tub. Pretty sure that wasn’t required and as it didn’t solve the problem it wasn’t. The breaker is looking at load or current (Amps) and then protecting the wiring from melting down with high current in the case of a short. The GFCI doesn’t care about current it is looking for current going to ground by measuring the current going out the hot wire and the amount returning in the common / neutral wire. The same amount should be in both and if it is different by only a tiny amount it will cause a fault. The common place for that to happen is if the heater is weeping just a little providing a path to ground or the water. Without GFCI the current could flow and the problem would rapidly grow and melt things. With a GFCI you wont see anything heating up etc. as it will trip almost instantly at this very low current loss.
Some things I wish they had in these tub boxes. I wish they had an audible alarm and also a light that would flash. Both could be rigged up.
Something inside the tub or the wiring between the tub and the GFCI or the GFCI itself is causing the problem nothing up stream is the problem. It is doubtful something changed in the wiring as it sounds like it was done correctly.
Something in the tub would have to be seeing some change that once a month there was a tiny short circuit starting. Moisture could be a clue except you say it does it during a dry spell. If the heater was weeping I would think it wouldn’t stop for a month and it would be getting worse not intermittent.
If it was mine and I was at a loss I feel I would be testing the GFCI unit itself to see if the intermittent problem could be internal. Even replace it and see what happens.
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As has been mentioned intermittent problems are very tough to trouble shoot.
First it’s important to understand the difference between a GFCI and a Breaker. You said you changed the Breaker in the house that feeds the tub. Pretty sure that wasn’t required and as it didn’t solve the problem it wasn’t. The breaker is looking at load or current (Amps) and then protecting the wiring from melting down with high current in the case of a short. The GFCI doesn’t care about current it is looking for current going to ground by measuring the current going out the hot wire and the amount returning in the common / neutral wire. The same amount should be in both and if it is different by only a tiny amount it will cause a fault. The common place for that to happen is if the heater is weeping just a little providing a path to ground or the water. Without GFCI the current could flow and the problem would rapidly grow and melt things. With a GFCI you wont see anything heating up etc. as it will trip almost instantly at this very low current loss.
Some things I wish they had in these tub boxes. I wish they had an audible alarm and also a light that would flash. Both could be rigged up.
Something inside the tub or the wiring between the tub and the GFCI or the GFCI itself is causing the problem nothing up stream is the problem. It is doubtful something changed in the wiring as it sounds like it was done correctly.
Something in the tub would have to be seeing some change that once a month there was a tiny short circuit starting. Moisture could be a clue except you say it does it during a dry spell. If the heater was weeping I would think it wouldn’t stop for a month and it would be getting worse not intermittent.
If it was mine and I was at a loss I feel I would be testing the GFCI unit itself to see if the intermittent problem could be internal. Even replace it and see what happens.
I apologize if what I said was misleading. In the house panel, there is a regular 50 amp double pole breaker, which has never been replaced. I put it in at the end of 2017 when I got the tub. The house was prewired for a hot tub with #6 wire when we had it built, but we had never connected it to anything. Outside in the spa box which I installed, there is a 50 amp double pole GFCI breaker. That is the breaker I replaced to make sure it was not the problem. The original breaker was brand new and was only in there for 2 months but decided to replace it with another exact same model that was brand new. The spa box/panel is the Eaton 50amp spa box sold at Lowes. So it seems the breakers are not the issue since it has happened despite being replaced. I had originally run #8 wire through the PVC, but also took that out and ran #6 just to be safer (I know its not necessary) and to eliminate any potential wiring issues along the strand...and that did not fix the issue. I suppose I don't know for an ABSOLUTE fact that there is no water in the PVC but we glued everything together and did everything properly (my dad and I are very hand and knowledgeable about all things NOT hot tub :x). So it seems like its not the wiring or breaker.
Which leads to the hot tub. As I mentioned, there is no visible moisture under the tub on or near any of the components. The one exception was there was a drop or two coming from the old pump which was replaced because of the bad seal. The tub is only a 2016 model so I'd hope it was a part failing, but it seems like that's the only possible explanation. The tub guy said these types of problems only get more prevalent as time goes on, but it doesn't seem to be the case thus far. We got the tub in Nov 2017 and its been happening since then, often times taking around 2 weeks to trip. It does seem to happen during the night time/early AM hours most of the time which leads me to believe its during a filter session or heating session, but it also does both of those things perfectly 99% of the time.
It's driving me nuts. I hate having to check my tub every morning and night to see if its on. I am trying to think of how I can wire in an LED light or something so I don't have to go outback to manually check the tub but I haven't found any cost effective or easy methods to do that thus far.
At this point it seems like the only real options are 1) the pump that wasn't replaced 2) the board or 3) the heater (which is unlikely since it heats fine and maintains temp well). Am I off here? The tub has no additional accessories besides the LED lights. No OZONE, circ pump, Bluetooth, stereo or anything. Just the basic tub with LEDs (which work fine).
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All you would have to do is wire a test light in after the GFCI on one of the 120V legs with a small fuse of its own. If the light isn’t on the tub has no power. You could glance out the window and tell.
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Ive had a thought and that is - it's either the heater or the main board.
Here's I have developed that theory. The wiring and breaker were both replaced. Still happens. One of the pumps was replaced. Still happens. The other pump and the LEDs are not on when the spa is not in use, which is when it's tripping. That leaves the only other two options to be the heater and the main board, no? The tub heats and maintains temp fine, which then points me to the board...which is expensive. Are there any tests I can do on just the board? I supposed disconnecting everything and if it still trips? Would probably have to have the tub drained bc I can disconnect everything or else water would get crappy if it took like 2 weeks to trip..
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Which leads to the hot tub.
It's driving me nuts.
At this point it seems like the only real options are 1) the pump that wasn't replaced 2) the board or 3) the heater (which is unlikely since it heats fine and maintains temp well). Am I off here? The tub has no additional accessories besides the LED lights. No OZONE, circ pump, Bluetooth, stereo or anything. Just the basic tub with LEDs (which work fine).
3) even though it heats fine it could still be the heater. Ohm tests on the heater are difficult. You will need the ohm reading of a new heater first. And the directions on how to ohm test your heater. This is done with power off. See if your dealer can help you here.
1) the pump that wasn't replaced, 2 speed main pump or aux? When your using the tub turn it on and off several times see if that initiates a trip.
2) I am leaning to board.
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Which leads to the hot tub.
It's driving me nuts.
At this point it seems like the only real options are 1) the pump that wasn't replaced 2) the board or 3) the heater (which is unlikely since it heats fine and maintains temp well). Am I off here? The tub has no additional accessories besides the LED lights. No OZONE, circ pump, Bluetooth, stereo or anything. Just the basic tub with LEDs (which work fine).
3) even though it heats fine it could still be the heater. Ohm tests on the heater are difficult. You will need the ohm reading of a new heater first. And the directions on how to ohm test your heater. This is done with power off. See if your dealer can help you here.
1) the pump that wasn't replaced, 2 speed main pump or aux? When your using the tub turn it on and off several times see if that initiates a trip.
2) I am leaning to board.
Tman, can you read my post right before this? Curious if my thought pattern is correct. I'm not 100% which was replaced. I know it's the one on the right side but not sure which it controls until I take side panels off.
The service man did go crazy pushing buttons to try to get it to trip..both heat up and down and jets on off continuously. Nothing acted up and the megger showed nothing over 0.11. he said it needed to be over 6.0 to trip the breaker, so it was far off
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Sounds like it was the 2 speed main pump that was replaced. Thats good.
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Sounds like it was the 2 speed main pump that was replaced. Thats good.
Yes, I went outside this morning and confirmed that. In my mind, the other pump causing the trip isn't logical since its never used outside of the tub being manually used. Is that a correct assumption?
Which leaves the heater and the main board as the likely culprits...
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Sounds like it was the 2 speed main pump that was replaced. Thats good.
Yes, I went outside this morning and confirmed that. In my mind, the other pump causing the trip isn't logical since its never used outside of the tub being manually used. Is that a correct assumption?
Which leaves the heater and the main board as the likely culprits...
That is a fair assumption, however......on your model tub does the second pump purge for 30 seconds or so before each filter cycle?
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I want everyone that visits this forum to know and understand that diagnosing problems via internet forum is difficult.
Being a good tech has more to do with figuring out whats wrong than anything else. Techs have a huge advantage over any do it yourself homeowner because they can keep a supply of parts that they can replace in any tub to see if it fixes the problem. Replace a part run the tub if it doesn't fix the problem switch to the old part and switch another part.
I have a ton of parts left over from my days as a repair dude. 8-10 boards most like new. 10-12 pumps all functioning some 2 speed some single both 56 and 48 frame. Heaters, I don't even know how many I have an entire shelf full in my garage. Top side controls a few small circ pumps, filter housings, jets both fronts and backs, valves and miles of hose, tube, pipe, fittings and......ugh I need to sell this stuff.
And as tubs get more complicated my odds of figuring out the problem, especially through an internet forum gets harder.
Ultimately your tech is right, you may have to wait for the problem to get worse.
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Sounds like it was the 2 speed main pump that was replaced. Thats good.
Yes, I went outside this morning and confirmed that. In my mind, the other pump causing the trip isn't logical since its never used outside of the tub being manually used. Is that a correct assumption?
Which leaves the heater and the main board as the likely culprits...
That is a fair assumption, however......on your model tub does the second pump purge for 30 seconds or so before each filter cycle?
I do not believe so. I have never heard or seen anything action before the actual filter pump comes on
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I want everyone that visits this forum to know and understand that diagnosing problems via internet forum is difficult.
Being a good tech has more to do with figuring out whats wrong than anything else. Techs have a huge advantage over any do it yourself homeowner because they can keep a supply of parts that they can replace in any tub to see if it fixes the problem. Replace a part run the tub if it doesn't fix the problem switch to the old part and switch another part.
I have a ton of parts left over from my days as a repair dude. 8-10 boards most like new. 10-12 pumps all functioning some 2 speed some single both 56 and 48 frame. Heaters, I don't even know how many I have an entire shelf full in my garage. Top side controls a few small circ pumps, filter housings, jets both fronts and backs, valves and miles of hose, tube, pipe, fittings and......ugh I need to sell this stuff.
And as tubs get more complicated my odds of figuring out the problem, especially through an internet forum gets harder.
Ultimately your tech is right, you may have to wait for the problem to get worse.
Yea, I understand, and I appreciate any and all input. I know its hard. This is hard for me because I am a very avid DYI that does all his own work (with help of Dad). We do all our own work, whether its plumbing, building, electrical, cars, etc. With this thing (hot tub), its just throwing me for a loop because its new to us and because the troubleshooting is so hard. I would think there would be an easy way to diagnose this sort of stuff these days. I've built a lot of computers in my time, and even other electronics, keep logs of faults and have easier troubleshooting methods.
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Tman, or anyone else...the tech that came out somehow got into a service/setup menu on the top controls. Does anyone know how to access that? Also, what happens if I push the "setup" button on the main control board?
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Tman, or anyone else...the tech that came out somehow got into a service/setup menu on the top controls. Does anyone know how to access that? Also, what happens if I push the "setup" button on the main control board?
On the main board there is a black button about 2/3 of the way on the right hand side. Push that in for a couple seconds and it puts the tub into service mode
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Tubs should have an on board PC and port for diagnosis. Like a car.
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Tubs should have an on board PC and port for diagnosis. Like a car.
I see a USB port on it but I'm guessing it isn't as easy as connecting a PC to it. I'm assuming there is software needed?
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Tman, or anyone else...the tech that came out somehow got into a service/setup menu on the top controls. Does anyone know how to access that? Also, what happens if I push the "setup" button on the main control board?
On the main board there is a black button about 2/3 of the way on the right hand side. Push that in for a couple seconds and it puts the tub into service mode
Thanks...anything in there you think will help me? If I end up replacing the board I assume I'll have to use this and set it up for my tub using the configuration settings in the cover panel? A bunch of lines and stuff
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Hey there I have an old 2003 spa that I have replaced the heater and the pressure switch the wet end and the main pack board. They spa was working great I'll a couple of days ago when the GFCI 50 amp Breaker tripped and won't stay on....I have only one 2 speed pump...and have checked heater and pressure switch it still trips. I have disconnected power to breaker and the breaker holds does not trip.........So now my question is when I can get breaker to stay on the pump starts purge and gets to end of purge breaker trips....I am wondering if the capacitor on the motor is causing this...or if it is something wrong in the circuit board....this is odd as there is not visible signs of damage to board all wires are snug and filter is out....no ozonatator or blower it is just a simple 2 speed pump
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I had trouble with GFCI Breaker tripping right after replacing a circulation pump. Swore it was the new pump but ended up being the breaker itself. Replaced it and know more troubles.
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I had trouble with GFCI Breaker tripping right after replacing a circulation pump. Swore it was the new pump but ended up being the breaker itself. Replaced it and know more troubles.
Yea unfortunately I've already replaced the brand new breaker with another brand new bresker, to no avail
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bump as problem is still ongoing
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Have you noticed anything weird on the top side controls? Any moisture buildup in there?
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Not sure this could even be relevant, but when you replaced the breaker, was it just the breaker or the wiring too? Is the wiring between the GFCI and the hot tub copper or aluminum?
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The breaker and wiring were both replaced despite them being brand new, but were not replaced at the exact same time. 6 gauge copper wire running from main house box to spa disconnect. 6 gauge copper wire running from hot tub disconnect thru PVC underground to hot tub.
Just did a bunch of heater measurements and they all check out in specs.. 14.5 ohms post to post on heater....16.5 amps when heating...240 volts...
Also checked all the voltages at the breaker and at the main board and everything checks out
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Do you have a way of checking ohms heater to housing. I don’t know the threshold for tripping the GFCI but it is very low. The heater will not blow or show any signs of being defective other than a slight trickle of leakage current. That will trip the GFCI and save the heater. If the GFCI was out of the picture the trickle that starts the cycle would burn in a carbon track and the leakage would grow larger and eventually a high current condition that would melt down the heater and blow the over current breaker.
GFCIs will detect so soon making it very hard to find the small leakage.
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From heater terminal to the outside housing of the heater ( the tube) was 0/OL when measured. Is that what you were refering to?
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From heater terminal to the outside housing of the heater ( the tube) was 0/OL when measured. Is that what you were refering to?
Yes , That sensitivity in a normal meter is hard to really read sometimes as it only takes 4-5 milliamps to trip and happens in 1/10 of a second.
Weeping or moisture will conduct these types of currents.
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Hmm..so no way to do further diagnosing on this? I suppose disconnecting the heater but I'd probably have to have it disconnected for more than a month to prove it's the heater since it only trips about every 2 weeks. The heater looks good. I have pictures that I posted to another thread, but no signs of moisture or burn marks. I suppose inside of the heater could be leaking? And that's really impossible to know, correct?
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Hmm..so no way to do further diagnosing on this? I suppose disconnecting the heater but I'd probably have to have it disconnected for more than a month to prove it's the heater since it only trips about every 2 weeks. The heater looks good. I have pictures that I posted to another thread, but no signs of moisture or burn marks. I suppose inside of the heater could be leaking? And that's really impossible to know, correct?
That’s correct to the best of my knowledge. You wont see any damage that’s what the GFCI does so well. Along with protecting you. The one place you really don’t want 240V is into the water when the water is inside a plastic container.
I’m not an expert but there should be a way to test for insulation break down using a megger tester. Here is a video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV6QlTwobLo
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Here is a cheap one that got an ok review on line. For 40 bucks it might be worth having.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01AL6KZKC/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&psc=1&linkCode=sl1&tag=jostonerehoto-20&linkId=412021d9a94bae68d83baf9d1308ab3b
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1ei4LQAFzA
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Thanks...so it seems like I'd have to remove the heater to do the testing if I get one of these. Was hoping for a test without having to drain/disassemble :(
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Thanks...so it seems like I'd have to remove the heater to do the testing if I get one of these. Was hoping for a test without having to drain/disassemble :(
Not sure if you have to remove and drain. You have access to the terminals and the outside pipe. There should be no current path between the two as your zero ohms reading kind of showed. If water is playing a part then you might want the water in there. The difference is with your meter you are putting a couple volts across the insulation and with the megger you are putting 500-1000V the voltage is required as when the insulation is failing it is doing so with 240V. The extra voltage is to just help break thru the interment part of the problem.
Like I said I’m not an expert on Hot tub heaters and what voltage thresholds the insulation systems should provide. There are a lot of members here that are dealers and do frequent testing and repairs, they should know the procedure better than me. I will try and dig around a little more to see if I can find the prescribed test for these heaters. There should be a way to rule it out or in without swapping parts and waiting a month.
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Oh okay, I understand now. Doing the same test I did but with a megger. Makes sense. I'll try to track someone down that has one for me to borrow. I really appreciate all your help!
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Oh okay, I understand now. Doing the same test I did but with a megger. Makes sense. I'll try to track someone down that has one for me to borrow. I really appreciate all your help!
I posted the question on a home improvement site I am admin of also. We get a lot of pro electricians and by tomorrow I should have more answers on meggering a hot tub heater with the water in.
For sure you will need to disconnect the wires to not put high voltage back the lines.
Ask around you might find someone to lend you one or rent.
If I get any replies I will post what I learn.
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Bump as it is still happening. Just tripped today after being fine for two weeks.