Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Asha on January 18, 2018, 09:50:38 am
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For the past 2 months I have been researching spas on this sight and seeing them in person. I’m interested in a 8 seat tub in the 8k range. As it stands now I like the bullfrog x8 (I have seen the x7) and the south seas (artesian) 965l. I haven’t seen ither in person so wet testing might be out of the question. I’m leaning more toward the bullfrog because of its looks, frame not being made of wood, and no diverter valves. I no both companies make nice products, but I’m having difficulty finding out about the differences. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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X-Series has some nice features, we sell a lot more X7's than X8's simply because once you make that price jump most people get interested in the A & R Series collections from Bullfrog that include JetPaks. Maintenance free construction (especially the base) is a nice feature, it's roomy, well jetted and well lit with no diverters. I don't know much about the Artesian except they are going for a huge spa with a lot of value, I can see where they cut costs on that particular model (not a ton of jet variety, 1 50 sq. ft filter where there really should be 2 in a spa that size, full foam as an option instead of standard like on the Bullfrog, etc.) I'm not trying to run it down, it just seems they were more concerned with building a really big spa for a lower cost, ideally it would be nice if you could wet test AT LEAST 1 of them for some type of comparison. Can't help you much on pricing, both models are much higher in my market, although it does depend on how you "option" them out, for example the extra LED light package on the X-Series is easily a $400+ option and I do price/sell all of them with that extra light package for example. Good Luck!
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Thanks so much for the valuable information. I will take your advise and look closer at the x7. Thanks for pointing out that the south seas 965 uses a small filter and lacks variety when it comes to jets. Insulation is also a consideration I should take into account, being from the north east.
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We bought the X8L in September and love it (from michigan). Use it almost every single day. We wanted the extra space that came with the size up from X7->X8 and don't regret it at all, even if it is just my wife and I most nights.
Thanks so much for the valuable information. I will take your advise and look closer at the x7. Thanks for pointing out that the south seas 965 uses a small filter and lacks variety when it comes to jets. Insulation is also a consideration I should take into account, being from the north east.
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Yes my thoughts also. My feeling is as long as I go large, I will never regret buying something to small. However the bullfrog r7 might be within my budget. Yes the jet packs sound intriguing but the 5yr warranty is valuable. I should be able to wet test a model that has the jet packs. The few bullfrog dealers within 50 miles primarily sell the R and A line, not the x. That’s why I believe maybe the R might be more Competitively priced. As it stands the prices I was quoted for a x8 is on the high side of what I’ve seen on this forum. So if I’m willing to go with a smaller tub (r7 88”x88”) then I should also be looking at other brands like jacuzzi marquis and hot springs. There higher end lines have a 5yr warranty. But then again my budget might not be enuf. Maybe a floor model or a left over is available.
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Both Good reputable brands. On the Artesian I would absolutely get the full foam package. i'm up in the Boston area and on the news the other night they were talking about how electric rates have been rising with the bigger electric companies out here. Take a look around at what people have on clearance for 2017 models. Maybe you can get a good deal that way. Good luck in your search
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Asha,
Welcome to the forum! While I personally haven't been in a Bullfrog, the growing number of satisfied users here hasn't gone unnoticed by me. Whatever you choose, please come back and let us know how it goes for you.
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Both Good reputable brands. On the Artesian I would absolutely get the full foam package. i'm up in the Boston area and on the news the other night they were talking about how electric rates have been rising with the bigger electric companies out here. Take a look around at what people have on clearance for 2017 models. Maybe you can get a good deal that way. Good luck in your search
Great advice for this time of year, I know I specifically have 3-5 2017's left that I'm letting go much lower than I ever would during a busier time of year simply because us dealers want to "turn" that inventory to free up cash to bring in the newer models so always ask "whats in the back" or "whats left over" when shopping around. Good Luck!
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Both Good reputable brands. On the Artesian I would absolutely get the full foam package. i'm up in the Boston area and on the news the other night they were talking about how electric rates have been rising with the bigger electric companies out here. Take a look around at what people have on clearance for 2017 models. Maybe you can get a good deal that way. Good luck in your search
Great advice for this time of year, I know I specifically have 3-5 2017's left that I'm letting go much lower than I ever would during a busier time of year simply because us dealers want to "turn" that inventory to free up cash to bring in the newer models so always ask "whats in the back" or "whats left over" when shopping around. Good Luck!
Same here!
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If you don't mind me asking, what were you quoted for the X8?
Yes my thoughts also. My feeling is as long as I go large, I will never regret buying something to small. However the bullfrog r7 might be within my budget. Yes the jet packs sound intriguing but the 5yr warranty is valuable. I should be able to wet test a model that has the jet packs. The few bullfrog dealers within 50 miles primarily sell the R and A line, not the x. That’s why I believe maybe the R might be more Competitively priced. As it stands the prices I was quoted for a x8 is on the high side of what I’ve seen on this forum. So if I’m willing to go with a smaller tub (r7 88”x88”) then I should also be looking at other brands like jacuzzi marquis and hot springs. There higher end lines have a 5yr warranty. But then again my budget might not be enuf. Maybe a floor model or a left over is available.
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Thanks for all the advice. I have been asking about left overs and floor models. I have yet to find what some on this forum and I would consider a great deal. Yes a few floor models hear and there, but no steep discounts. 500$ off. Plus not close to the size I would like. That’s better than nothing. I have two offers on the table. An x8 for 8600$ out the door. Tax delivery lift and starter chemicals. And a new 2017caldera Salina for 9k out the door tax delivery lift and starter chemicals. Both are as base as they come. I haven’t researched the Salina yet. It was pointed out that it does have a 5yr warrantee. Any insight on the Salina would be great. As for the dealerships, they both are comparable.
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Thanks for all the advice. I have been asking about left overs and floor models. I have yet to find what some on this forum and I would consider a great deal. Yes a few floor models hear and there, but no steep discounts. 500$ off. Plus not close to the size I would like. That’s better than nothing. I have two offers on the table. An x8 for 8600$ out the door. Tax delivery lift and starter chemicals. And a new 2017caldera Salina for 9k out the door tax delivery lift and starter chemicals. Both are as base as they come. I haven’t researched the Salina yet. It was pointed out that it does have a 5yr warrantee. Any insight on the Salina would be great. As for the dealerships, they both are comparable.
$500 - $1,000 is typically a "real" discount...anyone claiming 3, 4, $5,000 off simply uses the 'carnival barker' sales approach...It's 20k on sale for 16k, 14k if you pay cash, but just for you today sir/ma'am it's 10k if you buy right now. Remember this about small businesses and when shopping events/fairs/parking lot sales/etc.....Bottom Lines for small companies rarely, if ever go down, the starting price for the tub on the tag simply just goes up to give the customer a warm & fuzzy feeling like they are getting an incredible deal because they are buying "at a fair"
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Thanks for all of your responses. I would love to receive a 1k discount off of a non artificially inflated tub price. Even if it was a floor model that had been running for who knows how long and wet tested over and over again. But that hasn’t been offered. I have approached the dealer that I would like to do business with, and told them I’m interested in a fair price that would make both of us happy. One where they make a profit and enuf to keep them in business for years to come. I also would like to keep the business as close to home as possible. Not only for the ease of in store demenstrations down the line, but because I’m a strong believer of money spent in the community has a better chance of staying within the community.
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Thanks for all the advice. I have been asking about left overs and floor models. I have yet to find what some on this forum and I would consider a great deal. Yes a few floor models hear and there, but no steep discounts. 500$ off. Plus not close to the size I would like. That’s better than nothing. I have two offers on the table. An x8 for 8600$ out the door. Tax delivery lift and starter chemicals. And a new 2017caldera Salina for 9k out the door tax delivery lift and starter chemicals. Both are as base as they come. I haven’t researched the Salina yet. It was pointed out that it does have a 5yr warrantee. Any insight on the Salina would be great. As for the dealerships, they both are comparable.
Those seem like pretty good deals depending on your state sales tax rate. I’m a Caldera dealer and there was no change from 2017 to 2018 on that tub. You are at least 1000 cheaper then my price on that tub including tax. Same warranty as utopia. 5 year component. Nice layout that makes it seem larger then it is. Nice thing with the Salina amp is unless you want stereos or WiFi connection app there aren’t any add on’s Comes standard with nice lighting package, full foam so there really is t anything to add to that tub. That’s been a good seller for me
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For the past 2 months I have been researching spas on this sight and seeing them in person. I’m interested in a 8 seat tub in the 8k range. As it stands now I like the bullfrog x8 (I have seen the x7) and the south seas (artesian) 965l. I haven’t seen ither in person so wet testing might be out of the question. I’m leaning more toward the bullfrog because of its looks, frame not being made of wood, and no diverter valves. I no both companies make nice products, but I’m having difficulty finding out about the differences. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Neither the wood versus metal frame or the diverter valves or no diverters should make any difference in your decision. Here's why,
1. The metal used in metal framed tubs is thin sheet metal. It will not last any longer than wood in a wet/damp environment. I am on my third metal grill on the same wooden deck.
2. Diverter valves offer more adjustability. That may or may not be important to you.
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Thanks for the replies. I also agree with your price assessment on the Salina. It seams to be a great deal. Not having spent as much time researching it as I have the bullfrog spa, I’m now playing Catch-up. According to the dealer I need to deside by Sunday. I am looking to buy soon, however I’m not interested in deciding that soon. I understand what tman is saying about frame material. I’m just worried about a wood frame. I live deep in the woods where in the spring and summer everything is always damp. Wood decays much faster hear than most places. I’m new to hot tubbing so stop if I’m incorrect or have been steered in the wrong direction. I’m also concerned with the Salina using a poly sheet bottom. My understanding is it can be compared to a thick plastic bag, where bull frogs is ridged plastic. Maybe it shouldn’t be a concern of mine. Thanks again for all the feedback. It’s a major purchase for me, and I can only afford to do this once in the next 10-15yrs.
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Bullfrog uses a Full pan bottom on there r and a series not sure about the x series. The thick trash bag like bottom is more what you will find on the vacanza series tubs by Caldera. The Paradise uses a plastic bottom but not a bottom pan like what is on there utopia series tubs. There is no reason why you won’t get 15-20 years out of that Caldera Spa. Same thing can be said about the Bullfrog and about 10 or so other brands. I would pick by what fits you the best. As far as until “Sunday” that’s just salesmanship trying to get you to sign. I don’t sell that way. The closest I do to that is it’s a leftover 2017 when it’s gone it’s gone. I know a lot of Caldera dealers had to get there early buy orders in but that had to be done by last week. The only reason for using a by Sunday thing is if the dealer is placing a order on Monday and he is trying to fill a truck
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Thanks. That’s quality information. I’m pretty confident either brand will fit my needs. I’m going to revisit jacuzzi and marquis.
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Thanks. That’s quality information. I’m pretty confident either brand will fit my needs. I’m going to revisit jacuzzi and marquis.
Marquis is another solid tub. Any questions on that tub shoot away. I also carry that brand
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Thanks for the replies. I also agree with your price assessment on the Salina. It seams to be a great deal. Not having spent as much time researching it as I have the bullfrog spa, I’m now playing Catch-up. According to the dealer I need to deside by Sunday. I am looking to buy soon, however I’m not interested in deciding that soon. I understand what tman is saying about frame material. I’m just worried about a wood frame. I live deep in the woods where in the spring and summer everything is always damp. Wood decays much faster hear than most places. I’m new to hot tubbing so stop if I’m incorrect or have been steered in the wrong direction. I’m also concerned with the Salina using a poly sheet bottom. My understanding is it can be compared to a thick plastic bag, where bull frogs is ridged plastic. Maybe it shouldn’t be a concern of mine. Thanks again for all the feedback. It’s a major purchase for me, and I can only afford to do this once in the next 10-15yrs.
If you set a piece of the thin steel with holes drilled in it out in the swamp along side a treated piece of wood the wood will last longer.
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Yes much agreed. Bullfrog uses a composite. As for dealer reputation. I can only find a few google reviews for each dealership. Not enough to judge them. Is there another site I can go to?
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Just a thought here regarding the bottom pan vs bottom sheet of plastic. FYI, I now sell Caldera and Hot Spring, but used to sell Marquis and Sunrise. There are pros and cons of a plastic bottom pan. It does keep moisture, critters, elements out and that keeps the equipment are cleaner and I think can prolong the life of the frame. On the flip side, if there is a leak, then there is no place for the water to go. In the last year, I disposed of a 2008 Limelight Flair (which had a metal frame) and a 2012 Whitewater S104 by Sunrise which also had a metal frame. Both hot tubs were not taken care of, but both had leaked and probably done so for a long time. When my service tech removed the bottom pans to gain access to the underside of the hot tub, there were parts of the frame that were gone, it corroded away. Both hot tubs had other issues that made it not worth investing in repair which was ultimately why they were disposed of. Had those been pressure treated wood frames, or even had drain holes in the bottom pan and there had been somewhere for the water to escape to, maybe the frames would have been fine.
My point is, it probably shouldn't matter whether the hot tub has a bottom pan, plastic sheet, has a wood frame or a abs plastic frame. Buy a quality hot tub that works for you from a reputable dealer.
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Thank you, those are valid points and make perfect sense to me. This forum along with the feedback I have received has been extremely helpful. I will continue to educate myself before I make a decision.
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Just a thought here regarding the bottom pan vs bottom sheet of plastic. FYI, I now sell Caldera and Hot Spring, but used to sell Marquis and Sunrise. There are pros and cons of a plastic bottom pan. It does keep moisture, critters, elements out and that keeps the equipment are cleaner and I think can prolong the life of the frame. On the flip side, if there is a leak, then there is no place for the water to go. In the last year, I disposed of a 2008 Limelight Flair (which had a metal frame) and a 2012 Whitewater S104 by Sunrise which also had a metal frame. Both hot tubs were not taken care of, but both had leaked and probably done so for a long time. When my service tech removed the bottom pans to gain access to the underside of the hot tub, there were parts of the frame that were gone, it corroded away. Both hot tubs had other issues that made it not worth investing in repair which was ultimately why they were disposed of. Had those been pressure treated wood frames, or even had drain holes in the bottom pan and there had been somewhere for the water to escape to, maybe the frames would have been fine.
My point is, it probably shouldn't matter whether the hot tub has a bottom pan, plastic sheet, has a wood frame or a abs plastic frame. Buy a quality hot tub that works for you from a reputable dealer.
does Limelight use metal? I could have sworn Hot Spring has never used a metal frame?
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I Limelight did from 2008-2012 I think.
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Just a thought here regarding the bottom pan vs bottom sheet of plastic. FYI, I now sell Caldera and Hot Spring, but used to sell Marquis and Sunrise. There are pros and cons of a plastic bottom pan. It does keep moisture, critters, elements out and that keeps the equipment are cleaner and I think can prolong the life of the frame. On the flip side, if there is a leak, then there is no place for the water to go. In the last year, I disposed of a 2008 Limelight Flair (which had a metal frame) and a 2012 Whitewater S104 by Sunrise which also had a metal frame. Both hot tubs were not taken care of, but both had leaked and probably done so for a long time. When my service tech removed the bottom pans to gain access to the underside of the hot tub, there were parts of the frame that were gone, it corroded away. Both hot tubs had other issues that made it not worth investing in repair which was ultimately why they were disposed of. Had those been pressure treated wood frames, or even had drain holes in the bottom pan and there had been somewhere for the water to escape to, maybe the frames would have been fine.
My point is, it probably shouldn't matter whether the hot tub has a bottom pan, plastic sheet, has a wood frame or a abs plastic frame. Buy a quality hot tub that works for you from a reputable dealer.
does Limelight use metal? I could have sworn Hot Spring has never used a metal frame?
They did. It totally sucked. Glad they switched back!
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Ok so I have narrowed it down to two tubs. Both from great dealers and the tubs are around the same price. The responsible most likely will be, wet test wet test. Most likely that won’t be possible. A r7 bullfrog and a caldera Salina. Durability and ease of working on our probably my top priorities. Both 5yr warrantees. I’m thinking down the line i would fix most problems if they are within my Comfort zone. That being said I heard caldera uses proprietary parts. That also might be the same for bullfrog. Let’s say down the line I need to replace a jet. Does the whole jet pack in a bullfrog need replaced. If so how much does that usually run?
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I wouldn’t be to worried about proprietary parts. Everything is to an extent. Bullfrog uses Bakboa controls, but I’m guessing the software is specific to them making the electronics somewhat proprietary.
Either way, both good products. Salina is a comfortable, spacious hot tub. It has good power, I like the therapy it provides, and is my best selling Caldera.
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Thanks for all the advice. I have been asking about left overs and floor models. I have yet to find what some on this forum and I would consider a great deal. Yes a few floor models hear and there, but no steep discounts. 500$ off. Plus not close to the size I would like. That’s better than nothing. I have two offers on the table. An x8 for 8600$ out the door. Tax delivery lift and starter chemicals. And a new 2017caldera Salina for 9k out the door tax delivery lift and starter chemicals. Both are as base as they come. I haven’t researched the Salina yet. It was pointed out that it does have a 5yr warrantee. Any insight on the Salina would be great. As for the dealerships, they both are comparable.
$8,600!?!?!? I got mine for 7.2k including tax...delivery, steps, cover, install, chemicals, etc.
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Thanks for all the advice. I have been asking about left overs and floor models. I have yet to find what some on this forum and I would consider a great deal. Yes a few floor models hear and there, but no steep discounts. 500$ off. Plus not close to the size I would like. That’s better than nothing. I have two offers on the table. An x8 for 8600$ out the door. Tax delivery lift and starter chemicals. And a new 2017caldera Salina for 9k out the door tax delivery lift and starter chemicals. Both are as base as they come. I haven’t researched the Salina yet. It was pointed out that it does have a 5yr warrantee. Any insight on the Salina would be great. As for the dealerships, they both are comparable.
$8,600!?!?!? I got mine for 7.2k including tax...delivery, steps, cover, install, chemicals, etc.
What's funny is that Asha's prices are still great... especially including taxes! You got a business suicide discount bradleyabell! Be happy :D
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What's funny is that Asha's prices are still great... especially including taxes! You got a business suicide discount bradleyabell! Be happy :D
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This is good to know!! 8)
I negotiate for a living so it's good to know when I did a good job in my personal life ;D
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I really don't understand how people get some of these prices. Most hot tub companies don't have an exorbitant markup percentage. Then you've got to factor in the cost of a sales, service and delivery department that is highly trained. Especially in our market where there are a million $20/hr jobs to compete with. Keeping those guys on staff during slow periods is expensive. Warranty work loses money, so those with in-house staff available 7 days per week have to cover that expense as well. There are companies that choose to cut corners in these areas and when you experience the poor service as a result, will those savings have been worth it?
I always say with a purchase like a hot tub, it's worth paying a little extra from a dealer with a reputation for not skimping on service and delivery. Hot tubs are not really a commodity product for most people. I spent hours on my personal cell phone over the weekend with a customer who had an airlock. A simple problem that can happen with any hot tub. It was well below freezing. That customer would have had major problems if they purchased from a company without our level of service, availability, and expertise.
I'm not trying to justify high prices, but more explaining that not all companies will or should sell for some of these prices people are posting. You can't sell for that price and have well paid, well trained staff available 7 days per week that are willing to go the extra mile in a freeze emergency situation. Most of my team make a good living and as such take pride in their work and are willing to do whatever it takes to keep our 5 star reputation in tact. That means taking a loss once in awhile. I've worked for places that didn't have that culture and the service was nowhere near the same. But again, you won't appreciate that until you need it.
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Well I have taken this hot tub thing to the next level. I decided to forgo the family vacation this year and maybe next so I can afford a left over floor model bullfrog a8. After wet testing I was mesmerized by its power and Variety of jets. Plus it’s one nice looking tub.