Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: bwspa on July 29, 2017, 12:01:07 pm
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How does the Artesian Island Elite series compare with Marquis Signature series? I'm looking at the Epic and have wet tested. I haven't tested Artesian yet and am trying to decide if the drive is worth it. I'm very much looking for powerful water flow and that's why I'm interested in the HK jets on the Epic. Does the DirectFlow jets with more pumps compare favorably? Based on the marketing, it seems reasonable that no diverters and each seat having its own pump vs two pumps splitting the tub in two would be a good thing, but again, it's also marketing speak.
From pricing perspective, is the Island Elite in the Signature Series price range (Grand Caymen Elite/Grand Bahamas Elite vs Epic/Euphoria)?
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Yes, those should be pretty comparable. I'm a big fan of Artesian's Island Spa line. They definitely have decently strong jets and I think they offer a lot for the money. Depending on how far of a drive I'd say it's worth it. Marquis makes an awesome hot tub, as you've seen. You can't go wrong with either really.
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Well I took the drive and was able to we test a Grand Bahamas Island Elite. Pricing is in the Martin's Epic range, or better if we don't finance. Thought the Jets were strong and had a real good feel. I did like the zone control capability more so than the half and half method of most tubs, including the Epic. Warranty seems comparable.
Decisions decisions
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Some things I'm still mulling over - the Artesian had circulation pump and the Marquis does not. Marquis dealer indicated it wasn't needed and they never do much compared to running full pumps on their clean up cycle and another 2-4 hour run. Yet it seems many people here consider a circulation pump a good add-on, or at least part of their initial search criteria. Thoughts?
I also saw Artesian mention microban antibacterial coating on their acrylic. Is this common among brands? I never heard Marquis or anyone else I can recall state this. I'm pretty sure none of the spas manufacturer are making their own acrylic so this might be the norm.
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The circulation pump debate has been going on for years. In my opinion, I think the higher flow filtration cycle systems (like Marquis) work better. If you look back to the 90s/early 2000s, a lot of older Marquis had 24 hr circ pumps, and Marquis went away from that because of their likeliness to fail.
If you look at the forum there is a recent topic about someone complaining that they had a Bullfrog that filtered fine with filtration cycles, but now they are having issues with the circulation pump system they bought on their new spa.
People will argue it both ways, your water will be easy to take care of with either brand.
Most salespeople don't know this, but Lucite (the major acrylic provider for spa shells) discontinued Microban several years ago. It was an old sales pitch that salespeople are still using probably because they don't know better. I don't believe Aristech (the other acrylic provider for spa shells) has Microban either.
Marquis shells had Microban back in the day and I could never tell a difference. The current Marquis filters have a Microban coating, but it's hard to say if it's doing much. It does help prevent the growth of mold or bacteria on the surface of the filter.
Both are good brands. Here are a few things I prefer about the Marquis: cabinet material is stronger and similar to Trex material (I've never seen it fade), HK40 jets and geyser jets are very nice, underneath the hood is a little cleaner on Marquis (look in the equipment compartments of both), DuraBase ABS bottom standard on Marquis (I think it is optional on Artesian and the Artesian bottom isn't quite as robust from what I've seen).
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The circulation pump debate has been going on for years. In my opinion, I think the higher flow filtration cycle systems (like Marquis) work better. If you look back to the 90s/early 2000s, a lot of older Marquis had 24 hr circ pumps, and Marquis went away from that because of their likeliness to fail.
If you look at the forum there is a recent topic about someone complaining that they had a Bullfrog that filtered fine with filtration cycles, but now they are having issues with the circulation pump system they bought on their new spa.
People will argue it both ways, your water will be easy to take care of with either brand.
Most salespeople don't know this, but Lucite (the major acrylic provider for spa shells) discontinued Microban several years ago. It was an old sales pitch that salespeople are still using probably because they don't know better. I don't believe Aristech (the other acrylic provider for spa shells) has Microban either.
Marquis shells had Microban back in the day and I could never tell a difference. The current Marquis filters have a Microban coating, but it's hard to say if it's doing much. It does help prevent the growth of mold or bacteria on the surface of the filter.
Both are good brands. Here are a few things I prefer about the Marquis: cabinet material is stronger and similar to Trex material (I've never seen it fade), HK40 jets and geyser jets are very nice, underneath the hood is a little cleaner on Marquis (look in the equipment compartments of both), DuraBase ABS bottom standard on Marquis (I think it is optional on Artesian and the Artesian bottom isn't quite as robust from what I've seen).
One more thing, the more pumps it has the more it will cost to operate and repair.
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Some things I'm still mulling over - the Artesian had circulation pump and the Marquis does not. Marquis dealer indicated it wasn't needed and they never do much compared to running full pumps on their clean up cycle and another 2-4 hour run. Yet it seems many people here consider a circulation pump a good add-on, or at least part of their initial search criteria. Thoughts?
I also saw Artesian mention microban antibacterial coating on their acrylic. Is this common among brands? I never heard Marquis or anyone else I can recall state this. I'm pretty sure none of the spas manufacturer are making their own acrylic so this might be the norm.
While I may be a proponent of circ pumps for energy efficiency and better fit with ozone, I also see that those that prefer the non-circ option for more filtering and one less pump for future repairs have valid points as well. Every spa company like Artesian that uses a circ pump in fact also has non-circ models as well so its not like those companies are saying a non-circ option is a poor choice. You shouldn't let that be your decision point.
As far as the talk of a microban antibacterial coating on the acrylic goes, whoever is selling you that point probably also pushed the old rust proofing option during their car salesman days.
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The circulation pump debate has been going on for years. In my opinion, I think the higher flow filtration cycle systems (like Marquis) work better. If you look back to the 90s/early 2000s, a lot of older Marquis had 24 hr circ pumps, and Marquis went away from that because of their likeliness to fail.
If you look at the forum there is a recent topic about someone complaining that they had a Bullfrog that filtered fine with filtration cycles, but now they are having issues with the circulation pump system they bought on their new spa.
People will argue it both ways, your water will be easy to take care of with either brand.
Most salespeople don't know this, but Lucite (the major acrylic provider for spa shells) discontinued Microban several years ago. It was an old sales pitch that salespeople are still using probably because they don't know better. I don't believe Aristech (the other acrylic provider for spa shells) has Microban either.
Marquis shells had Microban back in the day and I could never tell a difference. The current Marquis filters have a Microban coating, but it's hard to say if it's doing much. It does help prevent the growth of mold or bacteria on the surface of the filter.
Both are good brands. Here are a few things I prefer about the Marquis: cabinet material is stronger and similar to Trex material (I've never seen it fade), HK40 jets and geyser jets are very nice, underneath the hood is a little cleaner on Marquis (look in the equipment compartments of both), DuraBase ABS bottom standard on Marquis (I think it is optional on Artesian and the Artesian bottom isn't quite as robust from what I've seen).
One more thing, the more pumps it has the more it will cost to operate and repair.
True and not true: The circ pump is less than one amp (half amp I think) vs low speed on a Marquis which is like 3 amps or so, plus you have start-stop-start-stop wear and tear on the primary pump, whereas the Island Elites have 3/4 pumps + circ pump: The DirectFlo has its own seating area (x2) so you are operating a 3BHP (1.5HP or so) if you're in one of those seats, you're only using one pump.
BUT- If you're using all 4-5 pumps then yes- you might be using more amperage all together. So it depends on the avg. number of users and, as noted, depends on what motors are used: Island Elites have 2-3 3BHP motors (depending on 7 or 8 ft spa) that two are for the DirectFlo seats and one is for the footblaster area and a 6HP motor that is for the other areas. So it gets pretty convoluted.
I think though that I (and maybe we) may be way down the rabbit hole: If you like the feel of one over the other, that is your answer. When I was at my old job I looked into brands to take on and I almost went with Marquis but chose Artesian instead. The things that swayed me were DirectFlow, the full 5 year warranty that was parts and labor, its ergonomics and the @ease in-line system. The things that almost swayed me to Marquis was the H.O.T. zone jetting, the clean build (as MarKee noted), the ergonomics, and the ABS pan being standard.
As others noted: Marquis and Artesian are great tubs. I bet we can all agree you're going to make the right decision, whatever it may be.
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Lots of good info. Most if not all of the time it'll be one or two of us in the spa. I'm mainly looking for variety of hydrotherapy seats. I like a strong jet which is what led me to Marquis Epic. I do love sitting in front of or across from the tower jets. My main hesitation on the Epic is that I have to turn off portions of the seats to use the HK jets, which affects what my wife can use. That and the trizone valve on the lounge seat, when set to full HK jetting, was very loud and distracting- the other side was much quieter.
I was surprised at the feel of the Grand Bahama Elite. The Grand Bahama can be controlled independently and all jets in a seat used at once which was a plus.
Both loungers are comfortable but the HK jets on the Epic would fill my shorts with so much air I'd float out. Pretty sure I'd need a different suit or none to stay seated long enough to enjoy those jets.
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Pretty sure I'd need a different suit or none to stay seated long enough to enjoy those jets.
Choosing none is always the best........
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Is the upgraded cover from Artesian (6" pro guard) worth upgrading to vs the standard 4" - live in the Midwest where it can get into sub-zero to mid-teens at the coldest times.
Does the extra weight make a big difference when using a cover lifter? My wife is small and i wonder if it'd be too difficult for her.
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I thought the extra thickness was for snow
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Artesian website started increased insulation value on the pro guard for snow and cold. If it's more for just the weight of the snow, I wouldn't be too worried about that. But if it would noticably improve the electricity bill then I'd consider it.
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It insulates better in addition to holding heavier snow loads. My opinion is that it is definitely worth it. The cover is the weak link your insulating system. A better insulating cover should make a significant difference.
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It insulates better in addition to holding heavier snow loads. My opinion is that it is definitely worth it. The cover is the weak link your insulating system. A better insulating cover should make a significant difference.
This is absolutely true. They say 70-80% of the heat loss on a properly insulated hot tub is through the top. Are there compromises that have to be made (harder to handle, more expensive to replace) yes. But if you can lower your heating cost by 3-5 bucks a month.............
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I may be a little late to the party but I have a 12 YO Artesian. If they make them like they used to the circ pump is rather large and high flow. I had the standard cover for quite a while even though it probably should have been replaced sooner. I now have the 6 inch cover from RH Tubs - you should get better insulation values from a a thicker cover - it all adds up to money savings (somewhat) ... depends on the price difference of the cover.
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Looks like the upgraded cover is an additional $250. How long do covers typically last?
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Looks like the upgraded cover is an additional $250. How long do covers typically last?
That's how you look at it, good thinking. A cover will typically last 5-8 years. At 4 bucks a month energy savings, that's about 312 bucks in electricity. Usually it's about a wash.
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I wouldn't bother with the upgraded cover. $250 is a lot of money for the amount of savings it may provide. When the cover goes then think about it. I don't think I paid much more for my replacement cover (maybe $350) and it came with double wrapped cores so theoretically it should last twice as long.
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I wouldn't pay for the upgrade unless you have snow issues.
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Question for the Artesian experts - on the Grand Bahama Elite, if a pillow fall was added, what seat does it go in and from what pump? Does it feel good while sitting under it and Can it be turned off if you don't want it running on you? Worth adding?
Also, is a 50A GFCI ok or do I need to go to a 60A?
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Question for the Artesian experts - on the Grand Bahama Elite, if a pillow fall was added, what seat does it go in and from what pump? Does it feel good while sitting under it and Can it be turned off if you don't want it running on you? Worth adding?
Also, is a 50A GFCI ok or do I need to go to a 60A?
I'm pretty sure that it goes in the back left seat if you are standing in front of the control panel looking at the spa. I think it runs from the same pump. It may feel good, depending upon your height. Yes it can be controlled independently. I personally don't think it's worth a couple hundred bucks to add. The tranquility fall is pretty cool though.
I think it's a 60 amp but can't recall for sure. You can always call your dealer to verify this info. If they don't sufficiently answer your questions you can call Artesian directly.
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Question for the Artesian experts - on the Grand Bahama Elite, if a pillow fall was added, what seat does it go in and from what pump? Does it feel good while sitting under it and Can it be turned off if you don't want it running on you? Worth adding?
Also, is a 50A GFCI ok or do I need to go to a 60A?
I'm pretty sure that it goes in the back left seat if you are standing in front of the control panel looking at the spa. I think it runs from the same pump. It may feel good, depending upon your height. Yes it can be controlled independently. I personally don't think it's worth a couple hundred bucks to add. The tranquility fall is pretty cool though.
I think it's a 60 amp but can't recall for sure. You can always call your dealer to verify this info. If they don't sufficiently answer your questions you can call Artesian directly.
If it's a couple hundred and not much for feel, I can skip it.
I did find the manual shows a 60A. Thanks
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Did you end up buying the Grand Bahama elite? How much were you quoted?
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Yes, I just had I delivered on Thursday. I ordered it with the Crystal AOP, inline @ease, Dynapoint LED, lifter, steps, 1yr chemicals, for $10,300 including tax, a $200 delivery fee due to distance from dealer and 60 months 0% financing. So, it was basically $9400 without the tax and delivery.
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Yes, I just had I delivered on Thursday. I ordered it with the Crystal AOP, inline @ease, Dynapoint LED, lifter, steps, 1yr chemicals, for $10,300 including tax, a $200 delivery fee due to distance from dealer and 60 months 0% financing. So, it was basically $9400 without the tax and delivery.
Thats a good price- When I sold Artesian that would be something that I'd have to get cleared with mgmt, as it was so low. . .
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How does the Artesian Island Elite series compare with Marquis Signature series? I'm looking at the Epic and have wet tested. I haven't tested Artesian yet and am trying to decide if the drive is worth it. I'm very much looking for powerful water flow and that's why I'm interested in the HK jets on the Epic. Does the DirectFlow jets with more pumps compare favorably? Based on the marketing, it seems reasonable that no diverters and each seat having its own pump vs two pumps splitting the tub in two would be a good thing, but again, it's also marketing speak.
From pricing perspective, is the Island Elite in the Signature Series price range (Grand Caymen Elite/Grand Bahamas Elite vs Epic/Euphoria)?
Not dissing Artesian because I like the brand but lets look at the downsides of no diverters and a pump for every seat. The dealer is only going to give you the upsides.
1. Power consumption will be higher. More pumps=more power consumption
2. No diverters means you loose all of the micro control diverters provide. What if it's to powerful and you want to turn it down?
3. More electrical components=more that could go wrong.
Food for thought.
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How does the Artesian Island Elite series compare with Marquis Signature series? I'm looking at the Epic and have wet tested. I haven't tested Artesian yet and am trying to decide if the drive is worth it. I'm very much looking for powerful water flow and that's why I'm interested in the HK jets on the Epic. Does the DirectFlow jets with more pumps compare favorably? Based on the marketing, it seems reasonable that no diverters and each seat having its own pump vs two pumps splitting the tub in two would be a good thing, but again, it's also marketing speak.
From pricing perspective, is the Island Elite in the Signature Series price range (Grand Caymen Elite/Grand Bahamas Elite vs Epic/Euphoria)?
Not dissing Artesian because I like the brand but lets look at the downsides of no diverters and a pump for every seat. The dealer is only going to give you the upsides.
1. Power consumption will be higher. More pumps=more power consumption
2. No diverters means you loose all of the micro control diverters provide. What if it's to powerful and you want to turn it down?
3. More electrical components=more that could go wrong.
Food for thought.
Those are fair questions for sure. Here's my thoughts, from as a recent end user but also a quality technician for consumer electronics:
I tend to run two main pumps at a time -the foot blaster and whatever seat I'm in, plus the circ pump, so if you've got 1-3 people, you're really not using more power at any given moment compared to other tubs using two pumps and a circ pump. If you've got everything rocking n rolling, then yes more pumps equals more power.
The two Captain chairs that have their own pumps are variable power - more micro control over power than a 2-3 way diverter. The rest of the spa has a 3-way diverter to split the pressure between the lounger and two side seats (equally for all three or between only two at a time).
I agree more parts can equal more parts to replace in general. Going back to my first comment, if I'm only using what I need at a time, then the other pumps will be powered down, so it should equate to better wear and tear distribution. Plus I could lose two pumps and have a very usable tub until repaired.
Specific to the pumps Artesian is using, they are switchless motors, which should minimize some of the more failure prone nature of mechanical switches.
Again, this was the rationale I used in my decision making, once I narrowed it down to a tub I liked the feel of. I wouldn't have bought just for that had I not noticed as good or better feel than the other.
For the Epic, if I could take the HK60 geyser jets and put them in I would, but the HK40 in the lounger didn't hit me right and with the diverter system I saw in the wet test how my wife and I had to plan out our seats more carefully as she lost what she was using when I had the HK's on in the chair.