Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: bodguy on August 09, 2004, 10:39:19 am
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As a 1st time hot tub/spa buyer I found there was one "down side" to doing my research using the hot tub message boards and forums, anxiety over prices. Anxiety that I actually did not have prior to starting research. Let me explain:
The 1st thing you find when doing proper research is that this purchase is probably going to cost you more than you had planned. Most total newbs, like myself, see tubs at Home Depot and Costco for under 4k and quickly realize though research here and other places that it is probably not a wise choice...ie I'd rather pay double on a purchase of this size to know I will be backed and serviced, and hopefully have less trouble with the product...Yugo versus Honda anyone?
The 2nd thing you will find in making this purchase is that purchasing a spa can be a similar experience to purchasing a quality mattress (anyone buy a good mattress lately?) The asking/invoice price is RARELY and probably NEVER that.
Example: The 1st HS dealer I went to said the Vista was a $13000 tub all day, and that didn't inlcude steps cover etc. Though I did not negotiate, the salesman made me believe that there was little room to negoatiate. He quoted me this price AFTER I told him I had done months and months of research on manufacturers, models and prices. I knew that this was way way over what this tub was worth, and was rather insulted that he still quoted me that price after he knew damn well I was an informed consumer. I knew this dealer wasn't for me.
The 2nd HS dealer I went to had a Vista, with invoice price listed on the tub of $10900, and the "sales" price of $8599, including cover, lifter, steps, chems. Now we are talking.
Now to brass tacks. I found myself bouncing back and forth, from board to board, looking at brands and models, options etc, but quickly got down to prices on each and every one. Mind you that I am the type of person who always wants the best, biggest and nicest of anything I buy, and always at the best price (there's a flaw in my personality that way). I quickly found myself only looking at the top end product in each and every manufacturer's line. I started driving myself nuts over prices and saving that $500 to $1500 from one model to the next, which actually confused me to the point of delaying a purchase.
To my point here, to those of your who are having price or model anxiety to the point of not making a purchase (dazed&confused and others), I realize that if you pull the trigger on a tub and find that someone else got the same tub as you for $750.00 less you are going to have buyers remorse, or be bummed out. Heck thats human nature. I feel I got the best price I've seen for my tub, and the 1st time I see someone get it less than I did, which inevitably will happen, I will be bummed as well......for about 30 seconds.
Wet test, find that good dealer, decide on that tub you want and can afford, research the price, and try like hell to get it at the lowest price you've seen on these boards. Ill bet you will get the tub you want within $1000.00 of the lowest price on these boards (tax is probably the real factor here).
Would I have paid $9599 vice the $8599 I paid for my tub, nope, that would have been more than the absolute top dollar I was willing to pay for a tub. Mind you that is probably the key factor for most people in the end, what is the most you can/are willing to pay, what is your budget? Did I want to pay $7999 vice the $8529 I did pay, you bet! Would I have been happier with that Jacuzzi 385 for $7950 vice the Vista at $8529. Yes, if after the long run the Jacuzzi was a better tub for me, but certainly not happier because I saved $679.00 for a product that was't for me.
To the dealers who are here on these boards. Put the prices on your tubs. List an insane invoice price if you want, just make that sales price somewhere within $500 to $1000 of your BOTTOM line. You know what your bottom line is, you'll still make a profit or it wouldn't be your bottom line. This has to be the best business model to follow! Is it worth losing a sale on the off chance that that one uniformed consumer will come in and pay list, or is it better to get the sale. With the advent of the internet and these types of boards you are going to have fewer and fewer "walk in's" that are going to pay list. Ill bet in the long run you'll sell more tubs and have happier customers.
In closing, are you going to be miserable and not enjoy your tub if you paid $679 to much, or are you going to be more miserable going tubless, while you drive yourself crazy over a few hundred bucks and spend 5 more months on these boards to save that few hundred bucks.....my guess is the latter :)
Go buy that tub. If you really want one you will eventually buy one, so why delay the inevitable over a few hundred bucks.
As Chas has so eloquently put it in the past, people do actually survive the purchace of a spa, I did ;D
*end long rant*
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Very well put...
I have another question for dealers out there. Do you make up the 'LIST' price or is this something that should be consistant across all dealers? Is this something that the manufacturer sets?
I know that our Sundance dealer says the LIST price of a cameo / optima is 10,290. I have no idea if this is the same as what other dealers are saying the list price is for that tub.
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What gets me are the ones who are within say $400 or $500 on a $8000 or so purchse, and won't budge.
Is that extra $400 really a deal buster?
Is it just the satisfaction of knowing that you got the upper hand? Me, I'd rather be soaking now, then sit around dickering over a couple hundred bucks.
Brewman
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Brew,
I think it comes back to the bottom line I was talking about. I am sure every dealer has a bottom line they won't cross, the bottom line has to be somewhere correct? Why the bottom line is where it is only the dealer knows.
That $400.00 you are talking about is below that line even on the 8k tub. There was no way I was going to get my Vista for $7999. I knew they'd let me walk, right Vinny?
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Bodguy,
I agree with you. Good post. I went through pretty much the same thing as you but I didn't say it so eloquently!
Netnutty
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That is just more padding for the dealers pocket! Why give it to him?
It is really upsetting for me to get prices that vary by 1000's, not 100's but 1000's, for the same spa!!!
Who wants to be brave enough to tell me cost out of the factory door? I guess no one! I realize dealers have costs and want to make a profit. But why keep it secret? In a way, there telling us by not doing so we are going to scr*w you on price! Tubs do not cost $8k!
Oh wow! I did not mean to open this can!
D/C
What gets me are the ones who are within say $400 or $500 on a $8000 or so purchse, and won't budge.
Is that extra $400 really a deal buster?
Is it just the satisfaction of knowing that you got the upper hand? Me, I'd rather be soaking now, then sit around dickering over a couple hundred bucks.
Brewman
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What gets me are the ones who are within say $400 or $500 on a $8000 or so purchse, and won't budge.
It takes two to tango and if there is a gap its because BOTH sides won't budge so you can't question why one side alone won't move. The buyer has the option to say "no thanks, that's too much" and move on. Even if the customer really desires that particular spa they have to feel comfortable they are getting a fair deal. The dealer has the option to decide they need a certain margin and that's as low as they'll go. There is a point where the dealer will decide they're better off with no deal than to take the customers final offer just to move the product.
Not all dealers are alike and it can be seen when two dealers selling the same spa brand can be vastly different to deal with. At the same time dealers know that not all customers are alike. I've seen people buy a top of the line spa and you get to their house and it’s a dump and you wonder how they even bought the spa (or rather why they didn't use the money to fix their shack). Then you go to a mansion and they bought an entry-level spa and act like they had to take a 2nd out to finance it and complain they paid too much.
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dealer "best price"/"bottom line" is the best kept secret in the spa purchase relationship.
Hot tubs are a leisure product marketed for discretionary income. There is no price regulation in the spa industry and won't be for a long time if ever. Dealers can set any price they want - it's a free market and consumers need to get over it if they want to be in the club.
After shopping, the purchase process can be summarized as...
...set your budget, educate yourself as to what others are paying, set your best price and buy the tub you want that works for you from the dealer that you want to support
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... opt to go to a Costco/HomeDepot/"Big Box" store and purchase for the price on the tag.
Done
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There are several Sundance dealers on this forum. And their identity as to what store/state/etc they work is not known to us. The beauty of this forum. So --- what dealer wants to step forward and tell us their cost from the factory for a cameo/optima?
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Dazed, it seems like the club may not be for you; you should consider purchasing from a BigBox store - you just ain't "getting over it"...
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If you want to find out the actually out-the-door cost from the factory for an Optima/Cameo...may I suggest you pony up the $200,000 to $500,000 (just guessing here, so forgive me fellow business owners/dealers) in capital and resources and become an official Sundance Dealer (provided that you met all the requirements and Sundance would actually grant you a license to sell their product)...that way you will (may) eventually find the mirage of "true dealer profit" to satisfy your unquenchable thirst for it.
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I've been doing my homework and wet testing, etc. for 2 or 3 weeks now and have made my choice. Going back to the dealer in a week or so to negotiate and hopefully buy the thing. I've seen the "sticker" prices, but have never even asked what the "real" price will be. I'm expecting the negotiation will be about as much fun as buying a car, and I expect it to take up to a couple of hours, with at least one trip out the front door required.
I did a google search on the mfr and model of what I plan to buy, and to my surprise I got a hit/link to another forum that had posts from 3 others who had purchased that exact spa within the past month, with one of them who bought from the same dealer that I am using. Each was within $100. None of the posts listed what options/accessories they got (one just said "with alot of stuff" whatever that means). The price paid was 70% of the "sticker" price on the spa when I did my last test yesterday.
Hope this info doesn't upset any of the dealers.
Like many, I got severe sticker shock the first dealer I went to. Just keep in mind that there is a LOT of negotiation room in that sticker price.
Good Luck!
Txwillie
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Okies Dazed and Confused, one of the main reasons I wrote this entire diatribe was to try to help you and others with price anxiety. I see it was futile in your case >:(
I really believe your are "needsaspa" under a new name, your last 2 posts are identical to his dealers cost rants from a few months ago. If you are not needsaspa then I apologize for the accusation.
Whether you are or are not....try to follow me here.
I honestly believe my dealers cost on the spa I bought was probably between $5000 to $6000. I honestly believe I paid a 35% to 45% markup. I REALLY believe this, and I am absolutely OK with that knowledge.
This guy owns or leases a building, either way he pays for it, insures it, pays his employess, pays for his trucks and fuel, pays for the insurance and upkeep on the vehicles, pays interest on the inventory sitting on his floor, pays shipping on the spas that he has on the floor and in the warehouse, pays for the electricity and water for those spas on the floor, pays for that free coverlifter, steps and chemicals, pays for advertising, pays a franchise fee, pays for the warehouse I know he has, pays in advance for the inventory consumables he has to keep in stock, on and on and on.
If he's a smaller dealership he has a lower volume in sales, therefore he may need to charge more to cover costs.
If he's a larger dealership, his overhead costs are higher, but he may make up for it in sales volume.
How do people like you expect these people to stay in business. The people who sell hotubs have no where near the volume or probably repeat business of a car dealership. I would imagine repeat customers for a hotspring dealer maybe once every 10 years. I know we've argued the point before, but Im telling ya the average size spa dealer HAS TO make at LEAST 35% profit on a tub or they will go out of business. Dang it all to hell I know I am right here, would one dealer PLEASE back me up on this.
If you GOTTA know what the real cost from the factory is divide the price you paid by 35%. Ill bet you a buck Im right + or - 10%
I asked Steve a few months ago when he was selling spas if he would sell me a Spa that cost HIM $5000 for $6500 (30%). He EMPHATICALLY stated NO!
If you cannot or refuse to comprehend what I am trying to tell you here , you will never own a tub IMHO.
And one last thing, If you are going to get hung up on $500 on an $8000.00 purchase, 6.25%, you probably cannot afford to be making that purchase to begin with or really don't have that strong of a desire to own this expensive type of "Liesure" product.
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I honestly believe you will find the mark-up is at 100%. I would say a $7000 tub actually has a dealer cost of around $3500. From my experience in car stereo, and other electronics, the markup ranged from 100-150%. I know for a fact that my spa dealer marks up all accessories at least 100%. He sold me a few extras, and upgrades at cost, and they were 50% of his asking price and less. I know his asking prices were competitive, because the only place I found cheaper was spadepot.com, and there price was in the ballpark.
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How do people like you expect these people to stay in business. The people who sell hotubs have no where near the volume or probably repeat business of a car dealership. I would imagine repeat customers for a hotspring dealer maybe once every 10 years. I know we've argued the point before, but Im telling ya the average size spa dealer HAS TO make at LEAST 35% profit on a tub or they will go out of business. Dang it all to hell I know I am right here, would one dealer PLEASE back me up on this.
Well said.
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I honestly believe you will find the mark-up is at 100%. I would say a $7000 tub actually has a dealer cost of around $3500. From my experience in car stereo, and other electronics, the markup ranged from 100-150%. I know for a fact that my spa dealer marks up all accessories at least 100%. He sold me a few extras, and upgrades at cost, and they were 50% of his asking price and less. I know his asking prices were competitive, because the only place I found cheaper was spadepot.com, and there price was in the ballpark.
You very well could be right, if the tub I bought cost the dealer $4000.00, I paid in excess of a 100% markup.
But even with that knowledge, through months of research on this board, I know I got a great price on a great tub :)
I just hope that with my posts people who really want a HS Vista or a similar tub can use the info I provided to get a good price, or even better one than I did!!
It's kinda like a family here you know :)
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Well said.
Thanx for confirming my theory Wetone!!!
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I honestly believe you will find the mark-up is at 100%. I would say a $7000 tub actually has a dealer cost of around $3500. From my experience in car stereo, and other electronics, the markup ranged from 100-150%.
There is enough compitition that this would not be possible.
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Okies Dazed and Confused, one of the main reasons I wrote this entire diatribe was to try to help you and others with price anxiety. I see it was futile in your case >:(
I know we've argued the point before, but Im telling ya the average size spa dealer HAS TO make at LEAST 35% profit on a tub or they will go out of business. Dang it all to hell I know I am right here, would one dealer PLEASE back me up on this.
If you GOTTA know what the real cost from the factory is divide the price you paid by 35%. Ill bet you a buck Im right + or - 10%
I asked Steve a few months ago when he was selling spas if he would sell me a Spa that cost HIM $5000 for $6500 (30%). He EMPHATICALLY stated NO!
If you cannot or refuse to comprehend what I am trying to tell you here , you will never own a tub IMHO.
bodguy has just posted one one clearest posts on this subject. As most of you know, I really try to help and be respectful of real shoppers with good questions here. As for dazed, my patience has long passed and I truly believe he's playing us all. Nobody could take this proccess and "play games" for this long. 140+ posts? Come on dazed... you're busted. :-X
I've had enough of dazed and I think it's time you took your crap elsewhere. Blunt, but we've been playing this game with you for far too long.
Demanding the cost is a sensless. Who the he11 are you to decide any one companies profit margin? Gimme a break... >:(
Itank (short for "in the tank" I assume) wrote: "I honestly believe you will find the mark-up is at 100%. I would say a $7000 tub actually has a dealer cost of around $3500."
Not even worth responding to.
What people need to remember is that industry is far too competitive to price themselves out in left field. (where dazed and Itank are playing catch I think) ;D
Companies selling under 35% margins are offering great pricing. Just understand that these people demanding 95% off sales are also the type that want service immediately when something goes wrong. If your dealer isn't there to service your spa because of his "great pricing", don't be shocked when he's not there to honor any sort of warranty!
Steve
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It is L Tank. L for Luke. I'm not crying, I ordered my Caldera 7/31/04. I don't know where you're talking about competition. In my area there are only 3 dealers that carry premium brands. Other than those guys I would have to travel over 100 miles,and that is not a local dealer. There's no way these guys around here could stay in business at 35% markup. They don't do enough business. I will believe it is 100% percent mark-up until someone has the balls to tell me what the mark-up is.
I'm happy with my purchase, the spa was worth what I was willing to pay. No more, No less. As long as people are willing to pay it, I don't care if mark-up is 500%.
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It is L Tank. L for Luke. I'm not crying, I ordered my Caldera 7/31/04. I don't know where you're talking about competition. In my area there are only 3 dealers that carry premium brands. Other than those guys I would have to travel over 100 miles,and that is not a local dealer. There's no way these guys around here could stay in business at 35% markup. They don't do enough business. I will believe it is 100% percent mark-up until someone has the balls to tell me what the mark-up is.
I'm happy with my purchase, the spa was worth what I was willing to pay. No more, No less. As long as people are willing to pay it, I don't care if mark-up is 500%.
Hey Luke, I don't think Steve was trying to be rude, I think I may have hit a nerve when I brought up Dazed and Confused.
Gotta remember that when I use the 35% markup figure, I am using a figure from a well known small business model. Whether it be 35%, 50% or 100% you acutally said it best, It doesn't matter if its 500%, You're happy!! People who insist that they should only pay $500 over cost on a $7000 item (7.1%) will lay awake in bed at night thinking how they were screwed even if they got that price on a 7.1% margin!!!
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What people need to remember is that industry is far too competitive to price themselves out in left field. (where dazed and Itank are playing catch I think) ;D
just a little bit further guys... the dealers are over the fence ;D ;D
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It is L Tank. L for Luke. I'm not crying, I ordered my Caldera 7/31/04. I don't know where you're talking about competition. In my area there are only 3 dealers that carry premium brands. Other than those guys I would have to travel over 100 miles,and that is not a local dealer. There's no way these guys around here could stay in business at 35% markup. They don't do enough business. I will believe it is 100% percent mark-up until someone has the balls to tell me what the mark-up is.
I'm happy with my purchase, the spa was worth what I was willing to pay. No more, No less. As long as people are willing to pay it, I don't care if mark-up is 500%.
I'm happy you enjoy your spa Luke and you feel you got good value. My point was that I have the balls and already told you that most dealers will sell at 35%+ markup. This will vary on a number of things (too many to mention) and yes, the high end ($10,000.00 +spas) will be more in most cases. You can chose to believe that or not. My job isn't to beat you over the head trying to do so.
I don't know of too many markets that have a manopoly on their market. If these same companies feel they do, most shoppers will travel for better value. No mystery there. Soon this company that feels that they have the God given right to rip people off, will no longer be in business.
Business people don't go through the hoops (and costs) of starting a business to sustain it for just a year or two. As a shopper, we all have the right to shop. As it's been mentioned before, if you don't like it, walk out. That company will soon get the idea and rethink the way they do business. We have all the power as consumers.
Thanks for keeping me in line bodguy. ;)
Steve
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I know the margins I have to maintain to keep my business open. I don't go below them or it ends up costing me money to work the deal. I know it sounds crazy, but the "margin" only becomes "profit" after ALL the bills are paid.
And many of those bills are paychecks to people who depend upon my businesses to keep a roof over their heads.
The biggest bills always go to the government of course, but don't get me started on that one.... >:(
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Oh come on Chas. Who really cares? Salaries, lease, heating, vehicles, shipping, insurance, interest rates, discounts, etc. It can't add up to THAT MUCH can it? ;D
Just give it away and make people like dazed happy. Where's the customer service? That's all they really want. They just want your cost. Let them decide how much your employees should make and I'm sure those other monthly bills can wait right? No prob.
??? ::) ;D
Profit? Like you need that... tight wad! ;)
Steve
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I know the margins I have to maintain to keep my business open. I don't go below them or it ends up costing me money to work the deal. I know it sounds crazy, but the "margin" only becomes "profit" after ALL the bills are paid.
And many of those bills are paychecks to people who depend upon my businesses to keep a roof over their heads.
The biggest bills always go to the government of course, but don't get me started on that one.... >:(
Easy on the government Chas....if it weren't for your tax dollars (and mine) I wouldn't get paid. (Im active duty military) and I wouldn't have my Vista being delivered on Wed ;D
Hey wait a minute, I pay roughly 25% in federal tax per year, that means I work every 5th year for free!!!!! Let see 24 years......dang it, Im working for free next year.
Boy that just bummed me out, now I feel like a Spa Dealer working on a 75% margin and I still have all those bills to pay with whats left.
And to top it all off Im gonna go broke next year with a zero margin!!!!!!!!!! >:(
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I paid $7100+tax for a Caldera Tahitian Utopia. That price included a $200(retail) cover valet, 48" storage steps w/handrail($269 retail, cover(? retail), and probably $100 worth of chemicals. Considering it will probably take the owner, and 2 guys at least 5 hours (counting driving), to set it up, I hope he has no more than $5000 in the spa.
If I were a dealer, I would probably start going up in price if someone kept badgering me. I think most dealers are good people trying to make a decent living at something they enjoy. Of the dealers I shopped, I only encountered one that really bothered me. They are my local Hotspring, and Sundance dealer. They are like those big car dealerships that continue to call you, and tell you our specials up this week, for $500 we can hold this price for you, have you made your decision yet? Blah, blah blah. I stopped by their store twice, and they were always having a BIG sale, This Week Only! They seem to think I was lucky they were around to sale me a spa. I want my dealer to make money, because I want him to be around 5-10 years from now, when I really need him.
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'You very well could be right, if the tub I bought cost the dealer $4000.00, I paid in excess of a 100% markup.
But even with that knowledge, through months of research on this board, I know I got a great price on a great tub'
How is paying 100% markup a great price on a spa??
As far as competition - there is none! That is, intrabrand competition. If you want HS you go to your local HS dealer. HE has the market. Hello, isnt that called a monopoly? Other HS dealers will not sell to you if you are out of their region. Again, protecting and creating a monopoly! Isnt about time someone with a law degree step in? Its time for this nonsense to end.
One problem with this forum is that there are too many dealers which of course promote the dealer and how their high prices are justified with future service, etc! Gag me! The dealer will service you regardless of what you paid. He is making his money on selling add ons, chems, SERVICE, etc. To think we are padding his pocket with more money on an inflated spa in addition to the profit on parts and service is sickening!
Oh well! I will find my Cameo with options at a justifiable price - some day. Some day my dealer will discover his conscious!
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Hey wait a minute, I pay roughly 25% in federal tax per year, that means I work every 5th year for free!!!!!
Do you work in the Accounting dep't?
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It I will believe it is 100% percent mark-up until someone has the balls to tell me what the mark-up is.
I'm happy with my purchase, the spa was worth what I was willing to pay. No more, No less. As long as people are willing to pay it, I don't care if mark-up is 500%.
Does Romans 8:28 mention having the "balls"......
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Hmmm let's see...I sell D/C a hot tub below my bottom line for whatever reason - possibly to shut him up.
I hope to create a repeat customer in the way of chemicals/accessories etc...
Plus, I hope that because he has taken so long to purchase, friends and family will view him as an astute shopper, and it will create some referrals for me.
And what does this get me?
1) The WORST type of "service" customer - Within the first two weeks I will receive a phone call to be told that because his water is cloudy the tub is broken and he expects someone out there YESTERDAY!!!! It doesn't matter if he hasn't added any bromine/chlorine in the last four days and had a big party 2 days ago. He spent $7500.00 on the hot tub!!!
2) Not only that, but I am charging more than Walmart/Costco/Home Depot for the same chemicals, and he expects a discount or he will take his business elseware. What do you mean there are different QUALITIES of chemicals???
3) The first thing D/C does is wave his bill of sale around to show what a good deal he got!!! Now if I want to make a sale, I have to lower my prices below the margins necessary to stay in business, and do without chemical/accessory sales entirely.
And the point to all this...
Tank you D/C for living far away; wanting a different brand; and therefore, not wasting my time when I have REAL, QUALIFIED, POTENTIAL customers in my store.
Wow, that felt great!
Joe
P.S. I consider typing this post time well spent ::)
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Does Romans 8:28 mention having the "balls"......
Ro 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
It doesn't mention balls, hot tub's, or dealers. Point?
By the way, no religious debate, it's about tubs, OK?
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bodguy, buddy, at 25% I hate to be the one to tell you, but you;re working every 4th year for free *gulp*
LISTEN UP FELLOW SPA DEALERS, this weekend, polish up your new Rolls Royces, we're meeting at the Malibu beach mansion for our monthly party. And yes, as always there will be the BIG name performers and pound after pound of imported caviar catered to us. If time permits we might even take our lear jets to Paris on Sunday for lunch......... I think the Queen of England can join us this time as well (remember last time we extended for a weeks shopping trip throughout Europe? The wife still reminds me with a sparkle of all the jewels she bought).
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How is paying 100% markup a great price on a spa??
Oh well! I will find my Cameo with options at a justifiable price - some day. Some day my dealer will discover his conscious![/qu
The great price is I haven't seen one sold cheaper on these boards. And if you can buy a spa in the lower price range on these boards then you've done your research and got a great deal
And I'm not saying I paid 100% markup, I said around 35%.
You've said in an earlier post you have a deal on the table for an Optima at $7900, and your trying to get em down to $7500. $7900 is a great price for that tub....buy it today....but buy it knowing your paid $7900 for a tub that cost the dealer about $5000.
BTW Know Im 100% sure you are Needsaspa
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bodguy, check your private messages please
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good post - I think it will reflect what many have gone thru. If I ever get within $400 of a price others here have paid I would buy. What bothers me is that I live in California and the prices I am being quoted by dealers - for spas manufactured in California, - are from $1500 to $2000 more - with similar packages - and sometimes the others have even had more more thrown into their deals. I have not bought yet because I would have buyers remorse immediately knowing I paid more for a California mfg'd spa than those on the east coast.
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Its time for this nonsense to end.
MY POINT EXACTLY ! Could we make it THIS POST?
Gag me!
I got $500.00 for the person that does. ;D
Steve
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ok....dazed and confused.............u need to get out of the communist society you live in and finally embrace capitalism!!!!! And for god sakes either buy your GD spa or start your own spa dealership so you will finally realize what it ACTUALLY costs to run a business. just b/c a dealer buys a spa for X amount of dollars doesn't mean that that is his TRUE cost. True cost takes into account ALL costs of running a business. But I guess that is one thing that will NEVER change with you, b/c you are better then everyone else who works hard for their money therefore you deserve extra special treatment/pricing. Well good luck getting your NEW cameo. Oh and have fun soaking in your NEIGHBORS tub, b/c by the looks of it you won't have one of your own for a very long time.
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Do you work in the Accounting dep't?
No, I'm currently the Government Furnished Equipment Coordinator and Combat Sytems Test Coordinator for the US Coast Guard's new 421 foot cutters, the WMSL, (Marine Security Cutter Large), that we are building in Pascagoula, MS. With the size of our budget I should be in accounting though (several billion dollar project) :)
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Hey needsaspa I mean, Dazedandconfused, Call Jerry at Spas Ect. in Bismarck N. D. He's just the kind of Sundance dealer you're looking for!
You'll more than likely get the deal and knowledge you so crave about spas. You can rent a trailor drive 1000+ miles to pick it up, haul it home, pay 2.00 at the gas pump.
After haggling with all the electricians in you tri-state area you'll find one to hook it up.
In the perfect world you'll never need service and you will be the king.
However in the real world you will have a service issue. Now you'll go back to all the Sundance dealers you've been hastling the last few months. The lucky ones will see you pulling up and punch out for lunch. The others will listen to your complaints.
Being the professionals they are, and knowing how persistant you are they will agree to service your spa.
You'll go on the service list and guess where on the list you'll be!
Spahappyl
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Poolboy? Do you mean to suggest that there is a difference between gross profit and net profit? A difference between profit margin and mark up?
Had to ask
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I know right???? Imagine that!!!! Companies have EXPENSES and BILLS, that have to be paid, wow, what a concept...................
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Wow!
This is a heated post! Lets forget the wholesale cost of the spa and break this down a bit more;
1. Freight on a spa shipped to a dealer can range anywhere from $100 to $500 and it seems to change every shipment.
2. A spa dolly trailer costs about $3000 and you seem to have to replace the lights, pins and handles once a month that adds about $200 a month to the cost when you figure labor.
3. The chemical kit that you "give away" with the spa cost anywhere from $50 to $150 depending on how weak the salesman was at the time.
4. The steps run about $50 to $150 with shipping dependant on which ones.
5. The coverlift that the salesman "threw in" without building value is between $100 and $200
6. The replacement panel that got damaged on delivery and had to be replaced was around $200 with the trip and labor costs.
7. The training for the guy "hanging out" at the customers house to give them a chemical seminar was priceless not to mention the hourly wage for him and the people in the store to answer the same questions over and over again that you paid someone to teach the customer already.
8. I couldn't even begin to tell you all of the costs the dealer has to "eat" when a cover is damaged and you have know idea how (could have come that way) but you take care of the customer.
Now add to that the overhead, the store rent, the advertising to get you into the store in the first place, the cost of buying and maintaining the vehicles. Oh and we haven't even begun to talk about the fact that spas are heavy and we pay workman’s comp now and then for people getting hurt.
I could go on and on but hopefully you get my drift. If a dealer is getting a 100% markup somewhere I would love to meet them, their incredible salespeople and my hero's. Their are a world of dealers out there that can't even break even with a 30% mark up after all of the additional expenses hit. (or should I say there were)
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good post - I think it will reflect what many have gone thru. If I ever get within $400 of a price others here have paid I would buy. What bothers me is that I live in California and the prices I am being quoted by dealers - for spas manufactured in California, - are from $1500 to $2000 more - with similar packages - and sometimes the others have even had more more thrown into their deals. I have not bought yet because I would have buyers remorse immediately knowing I paid more for a California mfg'd spa than those on the east coast.
What part of California are you from....The cost of doing business here just like the cost of living is much higher than most of the country....2000.00 is out of line....but in my search I have found the average cost difference paid for a spa is usually very close to 500.00....what spas are you looking at...
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Cenral Valley - Fresno - Visalia area. I have looked at a lot of different models, but now looking closely at Sundance Optima, HS Vanguard, and Jacuzzi J 365. Also liked a Dimension One model, but that one was really a lot higher. I am ready to purchase and will probably make an offer to buy the Vanguard or Optima at a stated price and see if I can make the deal. I am not in any hurry, so unless the price seems fair I will wait and keep looking - I can wait as I have a number of other things I can do now instead of making ready for a spa but ultimately will purchase something. . ..
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Just got done reading all the posts on here. My decision for purchasing was based on a couple of factors.
1. Price
2. Dealer
I was torn between the Optima and the Caldera Geneva. If my decision was based soley on price, then I would be the owner of the caldera and about $1000 richer. The reason I bought the Optima was that I was more comfortable with the Sundance dealer. He took more time to explain the tub to me and didnt negative sell his competition. On the other hand, the Caldera dealer talked negatively about all the other spas on the market. Being in sales myself, If you are trying to sell a product, talk about the benefits and features of your product instead of talking down the competition.
In the short time that I have owned my optima (1 week) I have been into the dealer a couple of times with questions and have walked out with chemicals free of charge.
Purchasing your tub is part of the process but afterwards it comes down to what type of customer service are you going to get from your dealer after the purchase.
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I have to respond to the fact that you have to pay extra for customer service ???
If someone buys into a spa franchise, they WILL have customer service! Its that simple! No customer service equals no buyers. I walk into a spa store (by the way, there not a lot of them) they will service me and I will buy profit loaded products and they will make money. My spa breaks, they will come to my house and fix it and make money via the manuf.
D/C
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Your "red" is showing D/C (Short for Darn Commie?)
Now you have a problem with profit?
I think you need to march into your employers personel office, and demand a huge paycut. After all, if your employer can lower all of the salaries of the company you work for, they can forgo their evil profit.
You truly have degraded yourself to troll status.
Brewman
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I have to respond to the fact that you have to pay extra for customer service ???
If someone buys into a spa franchise, they WILL have customer service! Its that simple! No customer service equals no buyers. I walk into a spa store (by the way, there not a lot of them) they will service me and I will buy profit loaded products and they will make money. My spa breaks, they will come to my house and fix it and make money via the manuf.
D/C
Food for thought:
If you blabber on for an hour or more in the showroom about how "EXPENSIVE" it is for the chemicals for your over-priced $7500.00 hot tub while potential customers are walking out after listening to you rant - The company LOSES money.
If someone services your hot tub and has to stay an additional two hours because you feel the need to complain about, well in your case everything - Again the company is LOSING money.