Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Buckeye on July 05, 2004, 03:03:31 pm
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Alright, my wife and I just wet tested a Sundance Optima, a Jacuzzi Premium J-365, and a Sundance Palermo (Bahia wasn't in yet to fill up).
Before I start let me tell you that we have never had a hot tub before, so we don't have anything to compare to. We were lucky enough to have all three of these tubs available from the same local dealer to give us a good fresh comparison. We are also plannig on wet testing a few similar tubs from other lines around town soon. As for now we're sorting this "family" of tubs
First we tried the Jacuzzi J-365. All of the seats were very comfortable to sit in for both of us. I'm about 6'1" and my wife is about 5'6". We liked the variation in jets/configurations among the seats and would probably use all of them alot. The footwell jets felt wonderful. My wife liked the calf jets, but with my long legs the jets hit me below the calf. If I layed my legs out, angled the jets up, and diverted for more pressure, I could feel it much better, but it wasn't as enjoyable as it was for her. The waterfall was nice but not necesary, as was the stereo for several hundred more dollars.
Second we tested the Sundance Optima. As Wisoki has told us many times, that there is going to be a difference in the power between the Jacuzzi and the Sundance even if the pumps are the same - he was spot on. The Optima was very powerful. In fact my wife faulted it for having too much power. Staying in the seats with the most jest was difficult at full power. When I was in that particular seat, I tried to reach over to one of the diverters and accidently got in front of the whilrpool jet. Let me tell you, I just about got my 190lb @ss blown right out of the seat. Although the tub seemed overpowering for ametures like us, I think after getting a better feel for the diverters, turning down some of the jets, and such, I would really enjoy this tub. My wife also thought that the tub was a little too deep for her, but I don't know if the water level was the reason or if it was the seats. At any rate she wasn't as comfortable as she was in the Jacuzzi. I didn't notice any problems. Even though I think this is a better tub once you play with the controls, I think that I would have to harness it by turning down the jets in order to enjoy it as well as I enjoyed the Jacuzzi's massage. I payed attention to the "no moving parts" jets that are featured with Sundance, but the swirling motion wasn't as pronounced as they were on the Jacuzzi's jets that perform thay type of effect. The air injector jets (14 small jets that let air in and don't push water - basically non-therapeutic) were nice, but I didn't see that they added much other than bubbles that floated up and the noise that this created. I felt the same way about the auxilary control. Very nice toys, but if I could take it off to save money I would. Don't get me wrong - the tub rocks, but the values compared to the costs just don't add up for us.
Third we tried out a Sweetwater Palermo. We would have liked to have tried a Bahia (no lounger) instead, but it wasn't in to try yet. I won't touch on the size being comfortable or not since the Palermo has a lounger in it - and we weren't comparing loungers. I can say the power was just not there in this tub. I fact when I diverted all of the power from one pump to one of the seats that had a few of the swirling jets (with the spinning part), one of them didn't seem to even want to spin! If I cupped my hand and moved it closed to the jet, the back pressure would cause it to spin so I know it wasn't stuck. Now, I know that when my back is up closed to the jet that would cause it to work, but I just had this weak feeling about the tub because of it. I tried to make sure something wasn't wrong with it, but I don't think there was... well besides me jumping out of the Sundance Optima and into this Sweetwater. The seats gave a massage, but... Oh yeay, one last thing on comfort. The headrest "comfort pillows" were the most comfortable out of the three tubs. The cost was less than the other two and would probably me a reliable tub, but I would feel shorted.
Although we are still looking closely at some other tubs and dealers, I would have to discard Sweetwater from my shortlist. As much as I like the idea of having more firepower than I need with owning the Sundance Optima, I probably need to let go of the idea and save $1000++. I'll agree that technically the Optima is the superior tub in the group, but the value-vs.-cost factor and the actual comfort just came up short. I must say that I was suprised with the Sweetwater, and may have to wet test a Bahia when one becomes available just to double-check them. After speaking with Wisoki in a recent email, we thought that the Sweetwater tubs would not have the issue of lacking power that he describes the Jacuzzi Premiums as having. If you're not familiar with this discussion you can find it in previous post.
I would like to know if anyone else has come to the same, or different conclusions, or if you have any other suggestions to consider. Please keep in mind that we have never owned a hot tub and someone put the Sweetwater Palermo on my deck as a gift - well I would surely enjoy it...
Thanks,
Buckeye
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Jacuzzi is very powerful,i just got out of mine.I was in the lounger for 20 mins and the other seat next to the water falls for another 20mins....I am 6ft 2 and have to reach the jets with my feet and at times have to hold on so i will not float outtt.Why would you want a Sweetwater?Its not that much cheaper then the Jacuzzi!Johnny Thunders :-/
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JohnnyThunders,
I looked at the Sweetwater just to compare. It's several hundred cheaper than the Jacuzzi. It was first shown to me as sort of budget version to the Sundance line.
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Among a few other brands I looked at Jacuzzi, Sundance and Sweetwater. Took Sweetwater off the list pretty quickly. Ended up with a Jacuzzi 370 (now 375). As compared to the Sundance, it had plenty of power, LED lights in the waterfalls, ABS pan, great filter cover and I saved almost $2000 (370 vs. Optima). My one comment on the power, as a new user all I wanted was that blast on my back, now as a experienced user, almost every day for 11 months, I do short term high power when the body needs it but most of my time is spent in a calmer relaxing mode (25 vs. 75% of the time).
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Yep its a budget spa made by Jacuzzi or sundance same company,the Jacuzzi J-315- J-345 are Sweetwaters too.when you go from the Jacuzzi J-355-J-385 they are Jacuzzi's don't let anyone tell you different.Johnny Thunders :o
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The 365 is a great spa. when the diverters are in the middle position the jets lack some power but 95% of the its probably going to be two or less in the tub, and as you observed the 365 has plenty of power with out blowing you out of the seat. Jaccuzi has also gotten rid of most of the 'moving parts' jets and replaced them with rifled inserts.
The warranties are the same, look at both of them. the 365 and the optima have the same capabilities in the LCD display, the jacuzzi has an abs pan, and the waterfall can be turned off. the sweetwater has a lesser warranty than both of the latter. The Jaccuzi is an excellent spa for the money. MHO
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Those Rifled Jets feels like Needles hitting the sore spots of the body.At times it feels good getting poked lol.Johnny Thunders
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I am so glad I found this site before making my spa decision. I've really learned a great deal and am a better informed buyer.
I've been wet testing several spas and Sundance was one of my first. Three of us felt the jet power was not as enjoyable as other spas we have tried although they seem like a great spa otherwise. We also tried Master Spa...felt great but too expensive for us, Hyrodropool...really felt great but hesitant about the company and not finding any info about them, Saratoga Spas, Jacuzzi, Hot Springs and Beachcomber.
I compared a Jacuzzi and Hotsprings Sovergn spa at the same store today. For some reason, I liked the jet positoning and seats better in the Hot Spring. Also I liked the way the neck and shoulder jets felt better...but that's me. I'm short, 5'2" so someone larger may prefer the Jacuzzi seats and jet positions better.
My other choice is the Beachcomber 720X. No 24/7 circ pump or ozonator, but everything about it sure felt terrific. I'm not sure how the Beachcomber compares overall to the others, or what to really base my decision on at this point.
I've come a long way to narrow things down to these 2 and am curious about how you came to narrowing down between Jacuzzi and Sundance?
Thanks!
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If Master Spa is too expensive, you could always try their Down East line.
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I've come a long way to narrow things down to these 2 and am curious about how you came to narrowing down between Jacuzzi and Sundance?
Ionheaven,
I spent a bunch of time trying to get familiar with who's who in the industry. If you search the forum you'll find a few versions of the top 5 or 6 manufacturers. From there I found their websites and did searches on them to see where me local dealers were. 2 or 3 of my top 6 list didn't have a local dealer. One listed someone who was around an hour away so that one was hard to consider. Once you make your rounds you'll realize that these dealers carry other lines too, so when that happened I would go back and try to find out what I could about them the forum. I had a great price on a tub that may have been a good choice but after emailing around a dozen owners that I found between this website and another forum or two I found mostly owners who had problems. Most still liked their spa and would recommend it, but I eventually dismissed it. One guy told me to call him and we spoke for about 45 minutes - great information from that guy. One of the manufacturers on my top 6 list had some great looking stuff and I was very comfortable with the dealership, but their warranty wasn't as good as either Jacuzzi or Sundance Warranty. So that's mostly how I got here.
Hope that helps!
Buckeye
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ditto...I wet tested all three with the similar results. My boyfriend loves powerful jets and I advised him when he is ready to look for a spa that the Sundance is for him, very powerfull..overkill for me. I did not care for the Sweetwater jets, they did not seem to provide the same quality massage as the Sundance jets. After wet testing nearly 10 spas, I just ordered the J385 , the jets seem to accomodate both of us and I like the layout and the features. Good luck with your decision!
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Jett you did right you wet tested before you bought anything...hope you be very happy with your spa :)JohnnyT
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:oI am looking at the same brands mentioned here but have not wet tested any yet. I really liked the baha from sweetwater, BUT after seeing how scratched up the outside was on our friend's baha, I thought I'd better stay away from this brand. I was told by another dealer that Sweetwater's outside material was not colored all the way thru and was made different from other brands. Can anyone comment on the quality of the sweetwater base finish? Does everyone with this brand have problems with the finish scratching easily and looking bad?
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when you walk into a Sundance Dealer and see the high prices on sundances you freak out a bit,then they are more then happy to show you their cheaper but good spas called sweetwater.Its a cheaper spa then sundance and Jacuzzi and you are still paying a price when you can have a Jacuzzi J355 and up for the same prices.The Jacuzzi's J-315 - J345 are Sweetwaters so go for the higher number models.look at other dealers to wet test but I don't think for the price for a jacuzzi you cannot go wrong.But checkout the others.JohnnyT
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We almost bought a J365, changed our minds 10 days from delivery and went with the Optima. I like to think I did get worthwhile features on my Optima that justify the price difference of $1500 between the J365 and Sundance. ($6500 otd to 7944 otd) Taking into consideration that the Optima is larger and holds 111 more gallons than the J365 we almost bought, its more like a dif of $1000 in price. These are things that we considered worthwhile:
1. I have an air blower that my entire family votes as one of their fave features for the feel of the jets (softer and slightly cooler) and for the sound effects, not found on the Jacuzzi.
2. I have adjustable air diverters with knobs, not just on/off push pad buttons found on Jacuzzi.
3. I have the microclean filtration system thats FDA compliant and approved by the National Sanitation Foundation (not sure if it keeps my water cleaner, but it sure makes me feel good and I do have clean water so far)
4. My footwell has 2 foot jets for each corner seat which comes in handy since I and everyone in my family has 2 feet each, this compared to 1 footjet per corner seat on the Jacuzzi.
5. I have 2 fantastic whirlpool jets, not found on Jacuzzi.
6. Even tho the pumps are rated the same between Jacuzzi and Sundance, after wet testing both tubs I can definitely say the Optima is much more powerful and all 4 seats plus the footwell can be used at once and be supplied with plenty of power, not so in the J365 my family was in.
7. I have stainless steel rings on my jets and stainless handles, not so on Jacuzzi.
8. Optima pillows are much larger and wrap around to allow you to lay different ways.
9. I have a secondary control panel, very convenient to change pumps from all seats.
I know some of these seem minor, and some may be features others do not care for or about, but these were things that sold us on the Optima over the J365. We also felt more confident in the Sundance dealership over the Jacuzzi. I'm sure we would have been happy with the J365 cuz any tub in my yard is gonna be fun, but we decided the features listed above justified the cost difference and after 1 wk of tubbing we remind ourselves every day that we made the right decision for us.
I'm not sure about JohnnyThunder's comment that the lower Jacuzzis are Sweetwaters and the higher Jacuzzis are Sundances. I found alot of differences between them. All 3 seem to be very high quality tubs, just sort thru the features to fit your needs and budget. But IMO, the Jacuzzis are Jacuzzis, the Sundances are Sundances and the Sweetwaters are Sweetwaters. JohnnyThunder implies that they are all basically the same with a dif label glued on. I disagree and so will anyone who wet tests and reads their manuals.
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What's with everybody and Sweetwater. So what if its not as perfect as the Optima. It's $2,000 less people. I have a Bahia and really like it. My husband can hardly sit in the therapy chair on full power. I don't know how much power a person needs. I thought a spa is supposed to be relaxing, not give a beating. The jacuzzi dealership in my area was absurdly overpriced. The Optima is a gorgeous tub, and yes very tempting, but face it , we can't all afford the best and frankly I can't say I would want to spend that much anyway, but that's me. The Bahia is a well made tub for the price. $5500 with everything, including upgraded Sundance micro-filter. And the turbo jet is Awesome! so there!!!
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Scout,
Glad you like your Sweetwater. I agree with you on not wanting a tub that is going to blow you out of the seats. However, I dismissed the Sweetwater because the particular tub I was in felt too weak to me. :'( As I mentioned at the beginning of the thread, one of the Sweetwater's jets didn't spin properly because there wasn't enough water power coming through. Something may have been wrong with that tub, but for another grand or so I wouldn't have to second guess myself. Sounds like your tub functions just fine.
Buckeye
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Okay I did sound defensive,didn't I? LOL I believe you tried a Palermo; right? I have heard Bahia is much better. Probably because the Palermo is quite a bit bigger and uses the same amount of power. I think the Bahia is better designed. I also had a sticky jet. We had some extras and changed it . Problem solved. It turns even on the lowest setting now. I do think they need to work on the larger spinning jets. They seem to have problems sticking. I think I read that some one had this problem on a Sundance as well. Any way thanks for your nice reply to my post.
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Well look at the contol board on the spa,its a sweetwater and look at the others they are sundance even when you look at the circuit board it says sundance on the higher numbers of the jacuzzi line.
1 sundance
2 jacuzzi
3 sweetwater
4 blueridge
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JT--so if the LCD are all the same, the tub is the same? I am just saying thats a dumb comment to keep repeating that half the Jacuzzis are Sweetwaters and half the Jacuzzis are Sundance. Like I said before, Jacuzzi-SW-SD all share some manufacturing points and parts but they are still Jacuzzis, Sweetwaters and Sundances. They are each good tubs in their own right. Let them be individuals!! (I'm a parent of twins, I know how important this is!)
If I take my Sundance board out and put it in a HomeDepot tub, does that now make the HDepot tub a Sundance?? If so, I might order a few parts and start selling hot tubs outta my garage!
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Amen, Calicoskies!!!
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The tubs may be individuals, but they all live in the same house and have the same parents. There are bound to be similairities. All you have to do is look at the address on any ofd the brochures to see they are made in the same plant.
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Read the manual abit then speak
the Controllers on the sundance and the higher jacuzzis come with a LED Controller and the lower jacuzzis and sweetwaters come with that lame LED controller with not many features.
The J315-J345 comes with a few Sweetwater features
the J-355-J385 come with a few of the sundance features......
So why would someone want to pay $6000 plus for a sweetwater when you can get a better spa with the Jacuzzi.
Not saying the sweetwater is a bad spa but for your money you can get a good spa with the upper Jacuzzi's. and a 5 year Warrannty
All the jacuzzi's are the same but there are a few differances.Jt
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Wow, this has gotten way too deep for me! But I think I have it all sorted out - Calicoskies needs to check the serial number on each of the twins, 'cause the one named tomahto might actually say tomato, and the one named tomato might say tomahto. . .that was it right?
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You can never be too sure lol
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I was trying to be lighthearted here, but I guess humor and sarcasm are lost in this thread.
I have read the manuals. I am just tired of hearing the Sweetwaters be put down saying that those people would have been smarter to buy a Jacuzzi. Everyone wet tests, reads and researches and makes a decision based on their wants and budget. Telling them that they should have gotten a Jacuzzi instead of a SW is not fair.
I liked the Sweetwaters, they werent for me, but neither was Jacuzzi. Btw, my dealer offered to give me the identical warranty on the SW to match Sundance, for no charge. He was also going to upgrade the filter to the Micro, no charge. That makes a pretty good tub for the buck IMO. If the wet test fits.
JT- Sundance Capri, Marin, Altamar, Cameo, Optima and Maxxus are LCD but the Caprio, Metro and Solo are LED, so whats your point there? I just dont get it.
And about the tubs being built in the same plants, well the Cadillac XLR and the Chevy Corvette are both made in the Bowling Green, KY plant...but what does that really mean? Just cuz the parent company is GM or Jacuzzi, doesnt mean that all their products are the same. I drive a Cadillac and I can tell ya, its not the same as my mom's Chevy Malibu.
My sons are not named Tomahto and Tomato, they are named Pete and Repeat or Dumb and Dumber, depending on my mood. And they dont have serial numbers, they have a height difference of 3/4" so we can tell them apart, so HA. :)
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I mean why should you have to upgrade the Filter system and the warrentty,Sweetwater should have that as standard.Only thing I am saying is that the lower end of the jacuzzi's have a few sweetwater parts and the upper part of the jacuzzis are sundance parts.....Now lets end this and enjoy our spas.......yea baby...Jt Lets take the needle and stick it in the vain to kill the pain lol.Jt
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Calico - I hope you did not think I was making fun of you or directing sarcasm your way. That was not my intent and if it came across as such - I offer a very humble appology.
I completely agree with your earlier comments. I assure you I was merely trying to add a little humor and lighten the mood (Mr. Thunder gets pretty intense over this "sundance/jacuzzi/sweetwater thing.")
So again, I appologize if anyone took offense. That said, Calico, you totally cracked me up with: "My sons are not named Tomahto and Tomato, they are named Pete and Repeat or Dumb and Dumber, depending on my mood. And they dont have serial numbers, they have a height difference of 3/4" so we can tell them apart, so HA." (I literally almost fell off the chair I laughed so hard. Thanks!)
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well when i was shopping the Sundances were overpriced and the guy had his sweetwaters higher then the Jacuzzis at the other dealer.And tell me that sundance bought jacuzzi.The sweetwater looked ok but for a cheaper price i got a Jacuzzi.I don't get annoyed just don't want people to think they are getting a bargin when they buy a sweetwater.Unless its under $5500 lol....this freaking wine screwing up my typing...........JohnnyT
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Thanks for the info - Me and the Mrs. will be wet testing those (J-365/Optima and the Bahia) will try to get the Emerald or Opal by Artesian. The only thing I can say is, "Boy, I wish these dealers were on my side of town!"
300 miles later. Sheesh!!!!!, and then have to do it again for the wet test. Yeah yeah, I know it will be worth it
I have to take back my post about dealer integrity, The Sundance and Jacuzzi dealers exceeded my expectations.
The Sundance dealer offered me a Bahia with cover,lifter,steps,LED lighting/CD ozone, start-up and approx 4 months of supplies, stereo, delivery and installed plus a 1 year price guarantee for approx $6,700
if I put a 10% dep within 3 weeks. (Taxes not included)
She was willing to offer me an Optima for $7,600 as above minus the stereo.
I could defer delivery till July of next year with no change in price. This really appeals to me as I'm not ready for it yet.
Any opinions,
r100rs
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Jt, we get it! You like your Jacuzzi! I honestly hope I enjoy my Bahia as much as you enjoy your tub . Happy Soaking!
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I am new today to this forum. Amazing source of help. We are looking to buy and looking closely at Sundance Optima and Jacuzzi J-365- like others here the Sundance dealer was higher than Jacuzzi, similarly equiped. But my concern is, after looking at the Reviews and seeing what others paid for their Optimas, that the local Sundance dealer is very high - quote of $8500 firm for the Optima with CD ozonator and led lights, cover and lift, steps and the usual chemical packages etc. while Jacuzzi dealer quotes $7350 comperably equiped. Both quotes include delivery and set up but not the GFI electrical breaker. Others have paid a good bit less for either one based on what I read here. Any ideas what I should be paying for either - ball park ? We wet tested the Optima and liked it, will be wet testing the 365 tomorrow. Thanks for any help you can provide. I would be quite vulnerable without this forum.
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Zacman,
I think both prices are a little high but probably not that far off if your prices include tax. I'm in Ohio and the prices I negotiated on both of these were both a little lower than yours. Granted, my first price wasn't the same as my purchase price. Where you're located plays a part in the pricing from what I've learned. This might just be me, but it seems like some of the best prices I've seen on these boards come from people that live in the Carolina's. It seems like the NY and NJ areas have higher prices. You might be able to print some examples that you find on the internet and show them to your dealer to see if they can work with you on the price. Check this forum, the reviews section, epinions, rhtubs forum, etc. The others will have more places to look than I will.
If your price includes tax you're not far off from my price. Another big factor beyond price is the dealer. Get one that you trust will take care of you if/when there is a problem. The salesman and the dealership I bought from was the one the gave my wife and I the best feeling of trust.
Good Luck,
Buckeye
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Thanks for response. I should have mentioned that the prices I quoted do not include taxes - with taxes the Optima comes to $9,137 and the J 365 at about $7,900. Also interesting is that I live in California where these spas are manufactured. I agree - I have seen some North Carolina posts with considerably lower prices. Given the great discrepencies, I think I will wait and negotiate or look at other options. I am not in a big hurry as I am in the midst of a number of landscaping and other projects. .
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I am not sure on prices on the Sundances and in New York and New Jersey area Jacuzzi are a bit high.The Jacuzzi was going for $6500 with delivery Chems steps in the Pa area.They paid someone $200 for delivey and maybe you canpick it up yourself and save another $200.........Jt :)
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For what it's worth, I paid $7100 for a j-370 back in November. I'm in Cincinnati......
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Thats a good price and i can see that you enjoy your winter nights in Cinn.............Jt ;)
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We just paid $7300.00--before taxes--for a J-375 yesterday in southern Indiana. They will be delivering free to central KY. Asking price was $7799.00 but they took off $500.00 and threw in the cover lifter--not included normally(cost $175.00) as well as cover and chemicals. Sick of looking so happy to have a dealer willing to at least work with us a little. I'm just so anxious to get it....
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Very very nice spa good luck with it :)Jt
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my local dealer is a Sundance and Jacuzzi dealer...yikes the prices were high!! yikes!! although we just walked in,like two looky Lou's
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Whats a Looky lou's????
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Just to add my 2 cents - I paid $5695 before NJ tax and $100 delivery for a J365 in June, included cover, ozonator & chemicals. Bought stairs & lifter online for alot less than the dealers charge for them. And I thought that was high - but after reading some posts on here and seeing what prices people are getting quoted, I guess it wasn't too bad. ::)
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Great price and i am sure you didnot get it from harrows.JohnnyT
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JT
Looky Lou= browsing!! ;D