Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: sudden on July 01, 2016, 06:17:38 pm
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Had a 2004 Sovereign which my daughter is now enjoying. Now that there's only my wife and I, I've looked at smaller tubs but I can't see getting a 2-3 person tub and since I really enjoyed the lounge seat in my original Sovereign, I'm looking at bigger tubs (5-6 persons) with lounge seat. I'm considering another Sovereign ($10,699), Bullfrog A7L ($11,599), Bullfrog R7L ($8999), and a Sundance Marin ($11,000) or Sundance Hamilton ($10,000). I can also go up to a 2014 Jacuzzi 470 floor model ($11,000).Haven't had a chance to wet test yet and haven't begun negotiating beyond initial prices which all All include cover, piston lifter, steps, delivery. Bullfrog promotes fewer holes, less plumbing and better insulation - should that be a factor in my decision? Both Hot Springs and Bullfrog use composite substructure, although Bullfrog has solid bottom and Hot Springs doesn't appear to be solid. While solid base should keep out moisture better, it will also keep it in if there's a leak. I like the idea of being able to choose my jets with the Bullfrog jet pak but I don't see myself necessarily switching them around. So is this system and how it's structured a beneficial feature or a gimmick? I like the design of the Sundance tubs, their Microstream filtration and EZ access panel but do I get more bang for my buck with Jacuzzi?
Is there anything to differentiate these tubs other than personal preference from sitting and wet testing? Also, if color isn't a deal breaker, is it worth focusing on floor models, what should I be concerned about in choosing one, and what should I expect in terms of saving for choosing a floor model vs. one that's wrapped or on its way to the dealer?
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I wouldn't let any manufacturers "gimmick" steer me. I'd find what was comfortable sitting in and dealing with.
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Wet test, wet test, wet test. They are all great ma ufacturers pick the one you like the best and focus in on that
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for a true apples to apples you may want to look at the Vanguard or Aria from Hot Spring which are both 2 pump tubs like the others on your list...my advice would be to go in and wet test the A7L or R7L if that is available...17 varieties of massage that you get to choose from, 90% less plumbing, less moving parts to fail and built in the USA...just go give it a try for yourself..spend a day wet testing and you'll know way more about you're personal likes/dislikes and you can narrow down your choices quickly
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This wouldn't be much help for most of the specific tubs you listed, but I posted long reviews/notes after wet testing several high-end models that seem to be in the range you're looking at. I ended up getting a Jacuzzi J-575. "Best" is always subjective, of course, but for me, it came down to liking Jacuzzi's jets better than anyone else's.
Here's the thread: http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/forum/index.php/topic,18911.0.html
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90% less plumbing, less moving parts to fail
BS
How many less moving parts? Which ones? Took you guys a long time to give up on the 90% less plumbing. That's non fact. 90% less than some unknown brand with who knows how many pumps and jets. If you don't count the plumbing inside the jet pacs.
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Here we go with tman and his irrational dismissal of Bullfrog as gimmcky, without even really knowing what he is talking about. I won't get sucked into it other than the say that there is no plumbing inside with the jetpaks. Your experience with Bullfrog is outdated. They are very different than they were when you interacted with them years ago. Also, don't get hung up on 90%. There is significantly less plumbing than a hot tub with a similar amount of jets. There are significantly less holes drilled in the shell. If you don't see the benefits to that, ok. Other people do.
All of that aside. It is the only hot tub in the world that allows the customer to decide exactly what jets they want and in what seat to put it. If they change their mind, no big deal. It's the only hot tub that will let you change the jets even after your purchase. Again, if you don't see the benefit to that, fine. A lot of people do, as evidenced by their huge growth from year to year. Bullfrog is really taking the industry by storm.
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Here we go with tman and his irrational dismissal of Bullfrog as gimmcky, without even really knowing what he is talking about. I won't get sucked into it other than the say that there is no plumbing inside with the jetpaks. Your experience with Bullfrog is outdated. They are very different than they were when you interacted with them years ago. Also, don't get hung up on 90%. There is significantly less plumbing than a hot tub with a similar amount of jets. There are significantly less holes drilled in the shell. If you don't see the benefits to that, ok. Other people do.
All of that aside. It is the only hot tub in the world that allows the customer to decide exactly what jets they want and in what seat to put it. If they change their mind, no big deal. It's the only hot tub that will let you change the jets even after your purchase. Again, if you don't see the benefit to that, fine. A lot of people do, as evidenced by their huge growth from year to year. Bullfrog is really taking the industry by storm.
Plumbing moves water. If there's no plumbing in a jet pac how does it move water? Nothing on the other question huh Sam? How many and which moving parts does it have that is less than a typical tub? The only reason I brought up the 90% less plumbing thing is because BF keeps doing it to deceive people. Now they have added to their pitch "less moving parts" Which ones?
Get real BF sales people.
And also the quantity of plumbing has absolutely NOTHING to do with hydrotherapy feel.
Who's irrational? And I never called it gimmicky. The OP did. Read a little closer before you blow on the only truth on the subject.
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Tman I have a jet pack that had a problem coming back. I will rip open the back and show you all the plumbing, that's not there. BF replaced no questions asked and they don't want it back.
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Tman I have a jet pack that had a problem coming back. I will rip open the back and show you all the plumbing, that's not there. BF replaced no questions asked and they don't want it back.
If water travels through a space it is plumbing. Just because it's not a piece of pipe does not make it not plumbing. Shame on you for the deceit.
All those plumbing manifolds and diverters, I recommend any potential purchaser listen closely to their choices.
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Tman I have a jet pack that had a problem coming back. I will rip open the back and show you all the plumbing, that's not there. BF replaced no questions asked and they don't want it back.
If water travels through a space it is plumbing. Just because it's not a piece of pipe does not make it not plumbing. Shame on you for the deceit.
All those plumbing manifolds and diverters, I recommend any potential purchaser listen closely to their choices.
You know better than that and what it is, all those manifolds and divertors? Really, you think they have conventional manifolds and divertors like in a HS or Jacuzzi? I thought you might actually like to see it, but it's not worth my time to do it now since you know all about it and what it looks like.
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Tman I have a jet pack that had a problem coming back. I will rip open the back and show you all the plumbing, that's not there. BF replaced no questions asked and they don't want it back.
If water travels through a space it is plumbing. Just because it's not a piece of pipe does not make it not plumbing. Shame on you for the deceit.
All those plumbing manifolds and diverters, I recommend any potential purchaser listen closely to their choices.
You know better than that and what it is, all those manifolds and divertors? Really, you think they have conventional manifolds and divertors like in a HS or Jacuzzi? I thought you might actually like to see it, but it's not worth my time to do it now since you know all about it and what it looks like.
It's easy with this google thing to see what it looks like. Yes, a manifold splits the flow of water from one big path to many smaller paths. That is 100% what the inside of a jet pac does. Manifold, just like any other tub. Just closer to your ears.
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You are flat wrong about this. It's not a manifold just like any other hot tub. It's a patented and unique design. The connections are done with a sonic weld rather than hand glued. It is a different system that a lot people believe is better.
There is significantly less plumbing in a Bullfrog Spa, plain and simple. Less plumbing absolutely does have an effect on the system. All of this is fact. I'm not trying to argue and fight about it, it's just that you always say something when Bullfrog is brought up. You don't believe in the benefits of their system, but quite a few people do. I personally know hundreds of people who have had other spas and now have Bullfrog. They pretty much unanimously think it's a better system. Referrals from these people are driving significant growth. I see it every single day.
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So, after all the BF BS pro and con, which one...Hot Spring, Bullfrog, Sundance, Jacuzzi.
Bullfrog may be growing. Hot Spring #1 selling brand.
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So, after all the BF BS pro and con, which one...Hot Spring, Bullfrog, Sundance, Jacuzzi.
Bullfrog may be growing. Hot Spring #1 selling brand.
#1 selling brand, with 4 different series of spa's 5 if you count Free-flow under the HS brand might as well throw caldera in there as well, which they probably do and always have. Bullfrog has 2 lines and I believe out sold HS in the last 2 years and counting.
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You are flat wrong about this. It's not a manifold just like any other hot tub. It's a patented and unique design. The connections are done with a sonic weld rather than hand glued. It is a different system that a lot people believe is better.
There is significantly less plumbing in a Bullfrog Spa, plain and simple. Less plumbing absolutely does have an effect on the system. All of this is fact. I'm not trying to argue and fight about it, it's just that you always say something when Bullfrog is brought up. You don't believe in the benefits of their system, but quite a few people do. I personally know hundreds of people who have had other spas and now have Bullfrog. They pretty much unanimously think it's a better system. Referrals from these people are driving significant growth. I see it every single day.
Here's the deal Sam and you should know this already. IF a BF salesman brings up a BS sales pitch that has absolutely nothing to do with the making the performance better. but state it as such, I am going to call you on it. Everyone here knows that I stay out of threads I know nothing about and interject where I do or to call BS. LESS PLUMBING MEANS NOTHING. Why sell it as 90% less plumbing when that's a lie? One of you guys stated that in this thread!! Less moving parts? What kind of cockomany thing is this?
When a pump pushes water to a place where it is split into smaller flows and continues to different places it is a MANIFOLD. Go ahead and call it a........ tadaaaaa "JetPac" but it's a manifold if you take the sales pitch out. Go ahead and say you connect the jets different but that doesn't mean, tadaaaaa "better" But it does mean different. A lot of tubs have the same thing, a diverter that can concentrate water flow to different seats through a manifold. BF does it differently, but not better. Drink less koolaid.
Now lets move on to the as stated by someone here that's "in the know" "less moving parts" I'd like to know which ones?
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So, after all the BF BS pro and con, which one...Hot Spring, Bullfrog, Sundance, Jacuzzi.
Bullfrog may be growing. Hot Spring #1 selling brand.
#1 selling brand, with 4 different series of spa's 5 if you count Free-flow under the HS brand might as well throw caldera in there as well, which they probably do and always have. Bullfrog has 2 lines and I believe out sold HS in the last 2 years and counting.
Bullfrog may be a growing brand but its hard to believe the Bullfrog A, R and X trio of brands that a Bullfrog dealer carries has gotten to the point of outselling the Hot Springs, Limelight, Hot Spot trio that a Hot Springs dealer sells just based on the size of their dealer networks. I'm not sure how any of this can be proven since numbers aren't given in this industry and of course many will point to the fact that the number of spas a manufacturer makes doesn't necessarily equate to how good their product is (see past performance of Thermospas, Cal, Master ... for proof of that).
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I must say, and this is just a oberservation, but Bullfrog is brought up on this forum way more now than it was even 2-3 years ago. I remember they would be mentioned once in a while, but never like this. I remember that guy named swell tub was looking at them. He even went to the factory where they were made, but he ultimately bought a Jacuzzi. I know a lot has changed with Bullfrog since then though, and it appears to be working. They have a huge presence here now. Even Jacuzzi Jim is Bullfrog Jim now! ;). I have no dog in the fight as we really don't have a local dealer in our area (over 80 miles away). But, I can tell they are definitely a major player in the game these days.
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When a pump pushes water to a place where it is split into smaller flows and continues to different places it is a MANIFOLD.
By definition you are correct. By design, you sound like a bullheaded idiot. A tin can with some holes in it could be called a manifold...
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When a pump pushes water to a place where it is split into smaller flows and continues to different places it is a MANIFOLD.
By definition you are correct. By design, you sound like a bullheaded idiot. A tin can with some holes in it could be called a manifold...
Yep but somehow BF has made it a jet pac and now all of a sudden it's not a manifold next to your ear. Like I said any potential buyers need to take note of any extra noise when you put a tin can with holes in it next to your ears.
And as long as you started throwing insults you sound like a brainwashed cult of idiots that know nothing about plumbing except what a manufacturer told you or a salesman convinced you was correct and then you made your purchase decision because of it. Like sheep.
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All I wanna know is did you get a chance to wet test the A7L/R7L or any other tubs? 8)
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All I wanna know is did you get a chance to wet test the A7L/R7L or any other tubs? 8)
Right on!!! 90% less plumbing, jet packs, motto massage none of it means anything if you aren't comfortable in the tub. All the brands you listed are reputable
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Had the opportunity to wet test a 2016 Jacuzzi J-365, a 2014 Jacuzzi J-480, a 2015 Sundance Optima, and a 2016 Bullfrog A7. We went in anticipating that we were going to go with Bullfrog, but the seating wasn't as comfortable as the other tubs and felt that the Bullfrog finished in 4th place for us. We were most comfortable in the Jacuzzis and felt that the foot dome of the J-480 was unbelievable.
Although I liked the J-480 and the lounge seat, the dealer was also closing out a 2014 J-470 floor model that had never been filled with full warranty and we chose that for a couple of reasons. First, the J-480 was $2,200 higher than the J-470 because it had a stereo which we didn't want or need and we preferred the color of the J-470. We got the J-470 for $10,600 including the steps, cover, chemicals, a CoverMate 3 lifter, spa handrail, delivery and set-up. I think we got a pretty good deal and more tub for our money than some of the others we were considering.
Our experience proves that you have to wet test. Otherwise, you may be happy with a good tub but not the great tub that's out there for you.
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Had the opportunity to wet test a 2016 Jacuzzi J-365, a 2014 Jacuzzi J-480, a 2015 Sundance Optima, and a 2016 Bullfrog A7. We went in anticipating that we were going to go with Bullfrog, but the seating wasn't as comfortable as the other tubs and felt that the Bullfrog finished in 4th place for us. We were most comfortable in the Jacuzzis and felt that the foot dome of the J-480 was unbelievable.
Although I liked the J-480 and the lounge seat, the dealer was also closing out a 2014 J-470 floor model that had never been filled with full warranty and we chose that for a couple of reasons. First, the J-480 was $2,200 higher than the J-470 because it had a stereo which we didn't want or need and we preferred the color of the J-470. We got the J-470 for $10,600 including the steps, cover, chemicals, a CoverMate 3 lifter, spa handrail, delivery and set-up. I think we got a pretty good deal and more tub for our money than some of the others we were considering.
Our experience proves that you have to wet test. Otherwise, you may be happy with a good tub but not the great tub that's out there for you.
Congrats! Great choice. Thank you for sharing your experience. Other potential buyers need to hear from actual customers to balance out the industry guy stuff.
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Had the opportunity to wet test a 2016 Jacuzzi J-365, a 2014 Jacuzzi J-480, a 2015 Sundance Optima, and a 2016 Bullfrog A7. We went in anticipating that we were going to go with Bullfrog, but the seating wasn't as comfortable as the other tubs and felt that the Bullfrog finished in 4th place for us. We were most comfortable in the Jacuzzis and felt that the foot dome of the J-480 was unbelievable.
Although I liked the J-480 and the lounge seat, the dealer was also closing out a 2014 J-470 floor model that had never been filled with full warranty and we chose that for a couple of reasons. First, the J-480 was $2,200 higher than the J-470 because it had a stereo which we didn't want or need and we preferred the color of the J-470. We got the J-470 for $10,600 including the steps, cover, chemicals, a CoverMate 3 lifter, spa handrail, delivery and set-up. I think we got a pretty good deal and more tub for our money than some of the others we were considering.
Our experience proves that you have to wet test. Otherwise, you may be happy with a good tub but not the great tub that's out there for you.
Congrats on your new spa! You really did you homework! Thanks for sharing your reviews of your wet tests.
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This is a good example of doing research and thinking about what is important in a tub for you, and that that, is way more important than any sales jargon to try and convince you one design/gimmick is better than another. Whatever the, "gimmick" for lack of a better word, sales job is to tell you why they think theirs is better. But that is a recipe for embellishment and a concealed carry license to embellish is issued. Asking other/competing dealers to say why theirs is better is an open easy target for another round of embellishment by licensed carriers. BUYERS BEWARE. Sales be careful when you run across a skilled/educated purchaser.
All buyers should do this first to take out any skewed data on sales or popularity. But this will likely never happen for 50% or more of buyers. Tainted sales data. Shame on you HOT TUB INDUSTRY. But good job. A nice luxury item that will likely not fade much over the next some ott years. Stay in the game, build a tub that is reasonably energy efficient, comfortable with many molds and design/performance options, that lasts for 15-20 years. People will buy them and a ton will be easy sales. But more and more of us will have skill and education when we purchase anything. Especially as the value increases.
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Congratulations, sudden! Sounds like you got a great tub at a great price. You mentioned you had the opportunity to wet test a J-480. How was your experience with the J-480? J-480 is a "finalist" tub, along with J-375 and Sundance Maxxus, but I'm having a hard time deciding and haven't been able to wet test a J-480. I'm curious what you liked and what you did not like about the J-480. In particular, how was the lounger? Do you feel the J-480 lounger would be comfortable for someone who is 6'0" tall? Any insight you can share about your impressions of the J-480 are very much appreciated. Thanks a million! Enjoy that hot tub!!
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I must say, and this is just a oberservation, but Bullfrog is brought up on this forum way more now than it was even 2-3 years ago. I remember they would be mentioned once in a while, but never like this. I remember that guy named swell tub was looking at them. He even went to the factory where they were made, but he ultimately bought a Jacuzzi. I know a lot has changed with Bullfrog since then though, and it appears to be working. They have a huge presence here now. Even Jacuzzi Jim is Bullfrog Jim now! ;). I have no dog in the fight as we really don't have a local dealer in our area (over 80 miles away). But, I can tell they are definitely a major player in the game these days.
WB are you still with Arctic? Or was it Blue Falls?
They had/have a good thing going also, Solid product. Embellished a bit sometimes like the others but a solid tub. They still sell them in Minnesota so........crappy brands don't last here. (Compliment)
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I must say, and this is just a oberservation, but Bullfrog is brought up on this forum way more now than it was even 2-3 years ago. I remember they would be mentioned once in a while, but never like this. I remember that guy named swell tub was looking at them. He even went to the factory where they were made, but he ultimately bought a Jacuzzi. I know a lot has changed with Bullfrog since then though, and it appears to be working. They have a huge presence here now. Even Jacuzzi Jim is Bullfrog Jim now! ;). I have no dog in the fight as we really don't have a local dealer in our area (over 80 miles away). But, I can tell they are definitely a major player in the game these days.
WB are you still with Arctic? Or was it Blue Falls?
They had/have a good thing going also, Solid product. Embellished a bit sometimes like the others but a solid tub. They still sell them in Minnesota so........crappy brands don't last here. (Compliment)
Yep, still selling Arctic & Coyote Spas, which are made by Blue Falls manufacturing. We have been selling Arctic Spas since early 2000's, and I started in 2002. We've had good luck with them. Thanks for the compliment! ;)
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Congratulations, sudden! Sounds like you got a great tub at a great price. You mentioned you had the opportunity to wet test a J-480. How was your experience with the J-480? J-480 is a "finalist" tub, along with J-375 and Sundance Maxxus, but I'm having a hard time deciding and haven't been able to wet test a J-480. I'm curious what you liked and what you did not like about the J-480. In particular, how was the lounger? Do you feel the J-480 lounger would be comfortable for someone who is 6'0" tall? Any insight you can share about your impressions of the J-480 are very much appreciated. Thanks a million! Enjoy that hot tub!!
The J-480 was a great tub. We were sold on the foot dome and all of the seats were comfortable with powerful jets. I had a lounger in my prior tub (Hot Springs Sovereign) and was planning on getting another. But, I could justify a $2K difference between the two floor models just to get the lounger. I'm only 5'8" and felt just as comfortable in one of the corner seats with the foot dome. In my view, the Jacuzzi 400 series tubs were superior to the 300 series, especially since the floor model prices were essentially the same as the price for a wrapped 300 series tub. Although I tested the Sundance Optima rather than the Maxxus, I think they have the same foot dome and I much preferred the Jacuzzi to the Sundance
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Thought I would chime in here. I did a wet test on an Artic Spa, Sundance, Bullfrog (and another brand I forget which, but it is the type that has the motor outside, under the stairs).
I went with the bullfrog R6, and I was very hesitant about the "gimmicks" some people on these boards say it has. 3 years later I have to say:
-the jetpacks aren't really gimmicks, it is very awesome to switch the seats once a year or so to change the way your hot tub feels. If I like a new position or seat, I move my jetpack there, easy and awesome.
-it doesnt get dirty behind the jetpack like people say
-lastly since you can buy jetpacks cheap used, or online, its actally a pretty neat system. I have two extra jetpacks I bought for 100$ each. Now if a pack ever breaks I have an extra, also the remaining plumbing in the tub is simple if that ever breaks, its basically just a 2 inch abs pipe that goes to a jetpack/manifold(but I havent had any problems yet).
I dont know that I would pay extra for Bullfrog, but at the same price I would say the jetpack features pull me in that direction if I ever had to buy again.
To choose a hot tub, I would wet test and look at price and go with a good dealer. But I thought I would defend the bullfrog which I am happy with.
Also I would strongly suggest buying used if money is a factor. If you have any mechanical ability hot tubs are super easy to fix/maintain and they are a lot cheaper used. Salesman like to make it sound like buying used is a tricky situation, but if you can wet test a used hot tub and it doesn't leak, there isn't really much else that can go wrong, and you can change a pump, heater or control panel for peanuts compared to the price of a new tub. (Just make sure you never buy one with a crack in the tub).
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Thought I would chime in here. I did a wet test on an Artic Spa, Sundance, Bullfrog (and another brand I forget which, but it is the type that has the motor outside, under the stairs).
I went with the bullfrog R6, and I was very hesitant about the "gimmicks" some people on these boards say it has. 3 years later I have to say:
-the jetpacks aren't really gimmicks, it is very awesome to switch the seats once a year or so to change the way your hot tub feels. If I like a new position or seat, I move my jetpack there, easy and awesome.
-it doesnt get dirty behind the jetpack like people say
-lastly since you can buy jetpacks cheap used, or online, its actally a pretty neat system. I have two extra jetpacks I bought for 100$ each. Now if a pack ever breaks I have an extra, also the remaining plumbing in the tub is simple if that ever breaks, its basically just a 2 inch abs pipe that goes to a jetpack/manifold(but I havent had any problems yet).
I dont know that I would pay extra for Bullfrog, but at the same price I would say the jetpack features pull me in that direction if I ever had to buy again.
To choose a hot tub, I would wet test and look at price and go with a good dealer. But I thought I would defend the bullfrog which I am happy with.
Also I would strongly suggest buying used if money is a factor. If you have any mechanical ability hot tubs are super easy to fix/maintain and they are a lot cheaper used. Salesman like to make it sound like buying used is a tricky situation, but if you can wet test a used hot tub and it doesn't leak, there isn't really much else that can go wrong, and you can change a pump, heater or control panel for peanuts compared to the price of a new tub. (Just make sure you never buy one with a crack in the tub).
Thanks for sharing your experience. Fyi, it sounds like you have the old style Bullfrog. The current JetPaks do not have any "plumbing" on the JetPak. I put it in quotes because you can argue that it is plumbing because water moves through it. I'm just saying plumbing as in the traditional schedule 40 pvc sense.
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Thanks for sharing your experience. Fyi, it sounds like you have the old style Bullfrog. The current JetPaks do not have any "plumbing" on the JetPak. I put it in quotes because you can argue that it is plumbing because water moves through it. I'm just saying plumbing as in the traditional schedule 40 pvc sense.
Is a shower head plumbing? Is a water heater plumbing? Is the pump plumbing? Is the heater plumbing? Is a toilet plumbing? There's no argument.
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Thanks for sharing your experience. Fyi, it sounds like you have the old style Bullfrog. The current JetPaks do not have any "plumbing" on the JetPak. I put it in quotes because you can argue that it is plumbing because water moves through it. I'm just saying plumbing as in the traditional schedule 40 pvc sense.
Is a shower head plumbing? Is a water heater plumbing? Is the pump plumbing? Is the heater plumbing? Is a toilet plumbing? There's no argument.
Maybe to a plumber it's plumbing. To 99.99% of the world it's a shower head, a hot water tank and a toilet, no argument. ;)
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Thanks for sharing your experience. Fyi, it sounds like you have the old style Bullfrog. The current JetPaks do not have any "plumbing" on the JetPak. I put it in quotes because you can argue that it is plumbing because water moves through it. I'm just saying plumbing as in the traditional schedule 40 pvc sense.
Is a shower head plumbing? Is a water heater plumbing? Is the pump plumbing? Is the heater plumbing? Is a toilet plumbing? There's no argument.
Maybe to a plumber it's plumbing. To 99.99% of the world it's a shower head, a hot water tank and a toilet, no argument. ;)
That's why we get paid so much. 99.99% of you don't know any better.
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Thanks for sharing your experience. Fyi, it sounds like you have the old style Bullfrog. The current JetPaks do not have any "plumbing" on the JetPak. I put it in quotes because you can argue that it is plumbing because water moves through it. I'm just saying plumbing as in the traditional schedule 40 pvc sense.
Is a shower head plumbing? Is a water heater plumbing? Is the pump plumbing? Is the heater plumbing? Is a toilet plumbing? There's no argument.
Maybe to a plumber it's plumbing. To 99.99% of the world it's a shower head, a hot water tank and a toilet, no argument. ;)
That's why we get paid so much. 99.99% of you don't know any better.
You in a plumbers union?
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Not any more, management, desk job. Maintain my license though, for now. Likely retire in November and start looking for other ways to stay busy. Mow grass, plow snow.
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Not sure if it is or isnt plumbing. (Not sure why it matters either) What I meant was that the plumbing IN the hot tub is simple, some simple pipes to fix if you ever need to. If you have an extra jet pack or two, it all works like lego.