Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: delt31 on May 16, 2016, 10:06:34 am
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Building a new deck and want to buy a hot tub. Never owned one before. Looking for a solid middle of the road 4/5 seater. Not looking to go over the top but don't want the plug and play. Thoughts?
Also - for ones you buy online not through a dealer - how does it actually get installed? Any info on what's involved with getting this thing going would be great.
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First build your deck with the largest tub you may ever sit on it, because chances are down the road you will upgrade and go bigger. Mine is a 6 seat tub and weighs about 6000# without the 6 people. My rule of thumb is add 2 more seats than you ever think you will have people in it. ours is a big 6 seater and it would be tight with 6 people but is wonderful for 4 adults.
I bought my tub from a dealer and it included install on the deck and they attached the cover lifter. I built my deck and wired the tub myself. A lot of tubs come with the GFIC load center that has to be in eye shot of the tub but 5 or more feet from the tub by code. I added a 50a breaker in the basement and ran the power to the GFIC and on to the tub all to code but I have some experience doing such. If you don’t you will have to hire it done. Make sure it is done correctly by someone that knows what they are doing. The GFIC has to be working correctly as you don’t want 240v in the water if the heater goes. The job isn’t complicated and tubs are wired different from the load center to the tub. Mine has a 20a and a 30a breaker in the panel. That’s so if the heater fails the tub can run in survival mode pumping water around slowly in the winter till help comes. Some don’t have that feature.
Don’t try and move it yourself to save money unless you own a construction company and have equipment. they are heavy empty mine was 800# and awkward to move. Do leave a side of your deck open if you can. I have a 8’ section of rail I designed to come out and when the guys saw that they couldn’t believe it as the plan was to tip it and go up the steps before they saw they could back up and slide it off.
Think about where on the deck it will be and the views from the main seats and where the steps to get in it will be. You want to step in on the flattest seat if you can.
You get what you pay for. Some tubs are social and some are therapeutic and are fine also for social but not as much the other way. The better tubs will last longer and cost less to operate and be better to repair when they do have a problem. Example ours is filled with a dense packed insulation that you can dig out by hand put it in bags fix a leak and pack it back in. sprayed in foam is not as easy to find or fix a leak. Better tubs have enough power to heat the water and run the pumps at the same time. Some of the lesser priced tubs make compromises in this.
Lastly do something we didn’t do if you can and that is wet test the tub. We didn’t and we got lucky and did sit in it dry a bunch but it was much better with water in it.
Hope this helps.
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This is very helpful – thanks!
We’ll prob never need more than 4 in their so prob 5-6 should be fine. How much should I expect to pay to get a decent 5 man tub installed and working? This means everything – tub cost, install, etc as I have no experience to do this myself. As for the deck it will be in the right corner so along the railing.
Any recommendations on what tub btw? This will literally be nothing but social so anything else is icing on the cake. Looking for good experience – not top of the line but not super low ball.
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8-16 grand, Who's in your area?
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I started out by finding all the brands sold in my area and then I posted on here. People told me which ones were reliable and then I went and checked them out in person. In the showroom, I had a preference and was pretty sure I knew which one we were going to buy, but we wet tested and ultimately decided on a different hot tub. So make sure to wet test them. We actually wet tested the tub we bought twice, we found that all the stores were pretty accommodating with wet tests.
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thanks everyone. I checked around and here are the makers:
Artesian
Mira
South Seas Spas
Island Spas
Artic Spas
Shoreline Spas
Master Spas
Sundance
Juccazi
Viking
Bullfrog
Coast Spas
Dream maker
Any clear winners there? Might be leaning towards master spa (twilight) and artesian but that's based on poolandspa rating.
Looking to get an all in cost of 8k (although ideally I would like for the hot tub to be inside the new deck, prob a cost more on the deck side). Regardless, plan to go to a dealer today although they all offer diff makers (never seen so much variety yet no one sells them all) so any advice on which makers would be best for that price point would be helpful!
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This is very helpful – thanks!
We’ll prob never need more than 4 in their so prob 5-6 should be fine. How much should I expect to pay to get a decent 5 man tub installed and working? This means everything – tub cost, install, etc as I have no experience to do this myself. As for the deck it will be in the right corner so along the railing.
Any recommendations on what tub btw? This will literally be nothing but social so anything else is icing on the cake. Looking for good experience – not top of the line but not super low ball.
Welcome to the forum. I see you have figured out what Marketing people call a 5-6 person tub is comfortable for 4 people.
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As an aside: I can help with any Artesian Spas/South Seas Spas questions. As a professional, you have some very good options to choose from in your area.
Pertaining to your question: Half the equation is always the local dealer: Are they reputable, do they have decent reviews, have they been in business a while, have they carried their brand(s) awhile, etc. Do not forget to factor that in your decision.
Decide if you want a lounge or all seats, pick a price point you'd like to stick to and try the tubs out dry. Once you've got it narrowed down to a few brands/models, then wet test to see if you like the jet action.
Remember- Bells and whistles are nice but you're not buying a tub for lights, radio, fountains, etc. You're buying it for how it feels. Make that the highest priority. Everything else is a distant second.
Filter systems and ozone are nice assistants to your water chemistry. Nothing more. Yes- They are great to have but they are never going to clear up green water. The user is always going to have to monitor water chemistry and make adjustments.
Many have already given or will give great advice. Check this thread and others on this forum for similar queries and you'll start to see the same themes popping up.
I hope this helps. Good luck moving forward.
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The above post is a great reply and I totally agree about the bells and whistles. Our Caldera Geneva had a lot of things we wanted in a tub all rolled into one package in a way that suited our wants. Some of the things I really loved or thought I would be disappointments others I called bells and whistles I know love. One disappointment was the out of the water neck jets in the corner seat. I thought oh boy that’s what I need. they don’t seem to do much of anything and hardly use them. One thing I thought was overkill was the second simplified control panel in the tub. We use it 10 times as much as the main control. I thought we would love the waterfall feature and never turn it on as it just makes noise mostly and in the tub I want to relax. It’s fun for kids or to show off but that’s about it. I thought the lighting was overkill but we both really love changing the mood with different lighting colors. Most of the time it is the default blue but the emerald green is relaxing and the red really changes the feel. Some of the modes I didn’t think we would use like the whirlpool mode that just moves the water around the tub in a circle is perfect for sitting and talking. Then there are the air jets with the blower. Thought that was old school and wouldn’t get used much and come to find out that type massage is a totally different feeling than the hard pounding jets and is a great way to cool down after the jets. Our tub has one seat with hand and wrist jets, didn’t think I needed them and now I couldn’t have a tub without them. Ours has two pumps one is 2 speed and one single speed. I actually didn’t think the low speed would ever be used now I wish both pumps were dual speed as I much like the softer jets and she likes the harder jets. So on that side of the tub I balance them with the diverter instead.
Seams as time goes on the novelty stuff wears off the quickest. We have outside sound system and hardly turn that on also.
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A few other options if you find the store option to be a little high in terms of price.
1) You might consider buying a tub off of a local vendor that does not maintain a showroom floor, just a warehouse. But you will not be buying one of the many excellent brands you suggest this way. You would have to do your research and be comfortable with an off-name spa. But this type of deal is not inherently better than the big brands and, in many cases, oftentimes worse. The dealers like this will claim it's the same spa but without paying for the showroom overhead and sales staff. Some people win out this way, but I would imagine many others are worse off.
2) The used route is another way to go and would not necessarily mean anymore hassle for you than just buying from a dealer. There are companies that can move your spa and handle the electrical hookups in the same day on the same invoice. You would have to find a tub you like (make sure it has heated water and that everything works) and then work with the movers to get it moved. I thought long and hard about moving it myself but in the end I realized it wasn't worth the risk or hassle of calling in favors from all my friends and neighbors. I paid to have it moved but did do the electrical myself. I wouldn't touch an older spa (as in 5+ years) unless they were practically giving it away, and then I'd still think real hard about it. You can get a premium spa for 25-40% off retail price. See my post in the "Pics of my Hot Tub" forum under the thread 2013 Sundance Cameo for how I got mine.
But I was sorely tempted just to pull the trigger and buy a top of the line spa from a showroom floor. The experience of getting it home and installed would have entailed much less stress than the route I got.
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thanks for all the advice guys. I am visiting another place tonight but went to three places today and liked the following:
Captiva (Artesian) - $7800
Twilight Series 7.25 - $7900
Twilight Series 67.25 - $7100
Prices are out the door (including tax).
I feel like the Captiva is a little high based on some others posts, although that was back in 2006. How do those prices look and more importantly, does anyone recommend one over the other (TS 7.25 vs Captiva)?
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Depends on the model of Captiva. If it is the Elite (with DirectFlow and a full non-prorated 5 year warranty on parts AND labor) I'd take it in a second.
The Island line by Artesian is great. I am biased as I sell them but I sought them out and dropped a brand my company carried for over 20 years b/c I just like what Artesian has to offer.
As I do not sell the other brands you just mentioned I'll leave it to others to speak about. But if you get a change to have the DirectFlow feature I'd jump on that. The warranty is big too.
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I'll need to check but I don't believe it's the elite.
Just came back from my last stop and I was really impressed with the Jacuzzi 245 as it was really comfortable. Best of all 6k out the door (after taxes). Any concerns I should have with the 245 b/c it's 1900 less than the others and seems like a great choice.
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trying to decide if I should keep it with the classic (245) or the updated 345. Are they really that diff?
Also lounge chair option - would like to get it but worried about comfort when 4 plus are in the tub. Would that person just have their legs on the other across the way? Worth it?
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Id go for comfort of the jets, jet placement, and comfort of the actual tub layout as your priority first. Then I'd identify who is going to be in the tub 90% of the tub and buy for that audience. Typically, once the novelty wears off its usually just 2 people in the tub. If you feel like you'll entertain with much frequency, then go right ahead and get the larger unit. But if you will rarely have more than, say, 3 people, get the smaller one.
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thanks we've decided to include the lounge chair.
Remaining question is if the jump from 235 to the more modern 335 is really worth it. Anyone have any input before I wet test.
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345 probably worth the upgrade. Style. Jetting. Filtration. All superior. (I don't sell Jacuzzi)
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I would agree that smaller is better. More jsets does not mean more enjoyment. Bigger means more cost to heat. I rarely had more than myself and my wife in the tub at once. Friends were not interested, and the kids were definitely not interested in getting in with the parents...and you can forget all about those hot tub ads showing sexy scantily clad girls in your tub ;)
Please do yourself a big favor and buy from a reputable dealer who can let you wet test the exact or at least similar model. Once its installed, it most likely can not be returned.
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After a few weeks of research I went with the 235 (Jacuzzi). Went with Jacuzzi b/c it felt the best and at the end of the day - they create the thing. Quality really did it for me. Lounger wasn't always in the cards but when I realized the majority of time it will be me and maybe my wife I thought why not. If we have more over, it's prob for boozing anyway so people will just be excited to be in a hot tub (similar to how I was before I thought about buying one and realizing there were all these choices). Excited to get it.
That being said - I have never been exposed to this market before and I have to say it's one of the biggest rackets out there. Being forced to only buy Jacuzzi brand at one vendor (next one is purposely X miles away) gives no power to the consumer and is ripe for salesman to take advantage of others. Sorry for the rant but jesus the hot tub market seems to be the wild west. Thanks to this forum for pointing me in the right direction. Market needs to be put into check though.
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congrats on owning a new hot tub
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delt31-
I can understand your frustration with the process: One brand is inevitably tied to the dealer. And if the dealer isn't your cup of tea but the brand is, you're in a tight situation.
However, this industry is very small. Yes: You will find dealers that are looking to take advantage of the lack of education of the consumer. But that can be said of any industry. And if you are going to spend $5K or more for any item, it truly is up to the consumer to make sure you are spending it wisely, no?
If there was more demand for the product, there would be more familiarity of the product, better educated consumers, and more dealer options to find the same brands. Better quality dealers would survive and the lessor dealers would go under. But that is not, and has not been, the case in this industry.
I am fortunate to be working at the #1 pool store in my market but that wasn't given to us. We as a company work very hard to achieve and maintain that status. Thus, I appreciate a brand that stays loyal to me and allows me to carry their product and nobody else within said market.
The consumer/dealer relationship is symbiotic, but so is the manufacturer/dealer relationship: I represent their product well on the sales level and they reward me by not allowing anyone else to carry their product. *OR* I am heads and shoulders above the rest of the dealers in my market and am so valuable that only the best manufacturers will want me to carry their products and I get to choose accordingly.
There are pros and cons to everything. But I feel that though you had to brush up against some "cons" (pun intended!), you seemed to have chosen the right spa for you and your needs with a dealer you trust. All it took was some homework and due diligence.
I very much enjoy and encourage a healthy discussion among reasonable people and this forum tends to provide both. Thus your "rant" as you put it is not that at all- It helps remind me that the customer will always need guidance in finding what is best for them. I sell directly against the product you purchased, and you chose said product over the brand I sell. So this is a learning experience for me too, as I got to glean some intel on the competition and continued to learn the needs of the consumer all while not actually being a part of the process. I feel that everyone won in this situation.
Thank you for indulging me. Good luck moving forward with your purchase and happy hottubbing!
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Might be leaning towards master spa (twilight) and artesian but that's based on poolandspa rating.
FYI, the poolandspa rating thing is total bullshit. It was created by Master Spas. They were smart enough to not make themselves the only high rating. Some of the highly rated brands are there are actually garbage. Honestly, Master Spas is middle of the road at best. They have the cheapest, crappiest cabinet I have seen in our industry. They are not insulated worth a damn and will be expensive to heat. The overall fit and finish is not good at all. They also use deceptive sales tactics.
While we are on the subject, consumer's digest best buy awards are also bunk. They are tricking people into thinking that they are credible by combining parts of 2 reputable names. Consumer reports and reader's digest. This aware is payed for. The company is a total award scam. It's surprising which reputable companies paid for these awards too.
Sorry for the off topic rant. Dishonest sales tactics are a pet peeve of mine. People fall for this stuff every day.