Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: bud16415 on April 21, 2016, 07:24:31 am
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I have been reading all I can on the @ease smartchlor system as I have a Caldera Tub that came set up for bromine with the frog cartridges. The bromine system was not without its problems for me and from another thread I see the smartchlor has some similarities to bromine as it builds a bank. As it was I got the bromine system down after a few months and it was fairly manageable and then I find out I’m allergic to bromine, all the classic symptoms and not a problem for anyone else using the tub. I switched the tub over to dichlor using the daily teaspoon method and leaving the mineral cartridge in. it has been super easy to maintain and I dose the tub right after we use it at night and the water has been perfect reading fine during the day if anyone uses it and by the time I get home the levels are very low but still not depleted and then we start the cycle over. The dose I give it is based around how much use it got that day our tub is a Geneva and normal dose is about a tablespoon. Less to none if it wasn’t used that day and a little more if it had heavy usage. With non-chlorine shock as required based around taking a look at the water when I first open the cover and a slightly different smell when we first lift the cover. All the numbers are staying good water is very refreshing and about the only other thing to be added is some PH up if it starts dipping.
I had a 6 month supply of bromine and my dealer offered to let me trade it out for dichlor and he has been waiting to get the @ease in and wanted me to try it. He told me to keep using the blue mineral cartridges I had with it. I am hesitant to switch from the dichlor as it is really working good and I remember all the issues I got with the bromine bank and the cartridges not dispensing uniformly as they got used up. Plus it is kind of a minor thing but I think the cost of doing the teaspoon method is way less and is really not much work.
The one problem I have is what to do when we go away for a few days to a couple weeks. I hate to ask a neighbor to come and toss a little in every other day and of course offer the tub for a soak as long as they are over. What I’m thinking of doing is just use the @ease when I’m going to be away.
Will there be any issues with sticking the cartridge in set on 4 for a few days to a few weeks to add some sanitizer when we are away and when I get back pull it out let it drain and save it for next time?
What are others doing when they go away? I have a friend that converted his tub to salt and has a saltron mini and he is trying to talk me into that. He says when he goes away he turns his time down to half the time it is normally set to run. Other friends have someone come and look after the tub.
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1. Have a friend toss some sanitizer in while you are away
2. Toss in an @ease floater or other floating device with 1 or 2 tablets in it and set it to a lower setting
3. Salt Systems simply require you to turn down the associated "output number" to release less Bromine or Chlorine (depending on what type of system you have)
4. If you are going to be gone for less than a week you could always turn down the temperature on the spa (bacteria grows quicker in warm/hot warm) and spike your Chlorine/Bromine level to a 8-10ppm and let it come down naturally while you are away
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Thanks for the input. I didn’t know you could buy the @ease chlorine in tablet form. I just assumed it was granular inside the cartridge.
I could just set the cartridge on a low number and plug it into the system rather than getting a frog floater.
Turning down the temp I would do if gone for more than a couple days. Ideally it is nice to be able to jump right in once you get home. I would rather not load it up heavy hoping it would time out about right. A small dose daily is more to my liking.
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You're either going to want to use the @ease floater all the time or not at all: When the cartridges dry out they're either spent or they create big problems.
You're kinda in an either/or scenario. The @ease is still chlorine. It is just a different type. Its way closer to what you are doing now vs the bromine, as bromine and chlorine are not compatible. And you're having reactions to bromine, but that will not be the case with @ease.
I am not advocating one over the other: It is your spa and I don't have a dog in this fight. But drying out the cartridges really messes up the flow (on the DCDMH aka chlorine cartridge) and can outright render the cartridge spent (on the mineral cartridge).
Additionally- The mineral cartridge, tho similar, is not the same as the Spa Frog cartridge. The actual active ingredient and composition of the product is chemically different from what the Spa Frog mineral cartridge is. Thus, you really should get both a new mineral cartridge and a new DCDMH cartridge. But they work the same as the Spa Frog in that the blue cartridge lasts 4 months and the silver cartridge lasts one month.
There are no tablets. Additionally, it is wholly unwise to use chlorine tablets in any form in a hot tub.
To recap: The current way you are doing things is economical, easy, and working. But it leaves you in a bind with long-term absences. @ease is great long-term but you are unfamiliar with it, and it will cost more. The only person who can answer what is best for you is you. Thus- Consider all angles and the answer will be self-apparent as to what is best for you personally.
I hope this helps. Good luck moving forward.
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Thanks a lot you answered a good deal of my concerns. It is funny my dealer didn’t mention the deference in the mineral cartridges. I will have to see if he will swap me out for the two I have for new ones.
I should give the new system a go for a couple months and see what I think and a good time to try it out would be a couple weeks before I go on vacation. If it seems to be holding good just go for it. with maybe closing the cartridge up one click when away.
I have searched around for automatic dispensers and there are even a few DIY models out there that use liquid. I’m a bit of an amateur inventor with a few patents maybe I should design a dichlor measured dispenser. Might be a market for one.
Is there a problem switching ether way between dichlor and @ease?
Also if I were to use the wrong minerals with @ease would the chlorine bank not release?
I have never quite understood the whole mineral thing some say they don’t use them and see no reason and the dealer seems to say they helped the bromine work.
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"Is there a problem switching ether way between dichlor and @ease?" --No. They are both chlorine. However, your mineral cartridge is meant to last 4 months and you are encouraged to change your water every 4 months. So it messes with timing.
"Also if I were to use the wrong minerals with @ease would the chlorine bank not release?" --No. Its not the best but its not like your water will go bad. Its more that the @ease chlorine, DCDMH, is completely new. It was tested for 6 years and it is totally unique. The mineral cartridge was modified to work best with the chemistry of the DCDMH in @ease.
"I have never quite understood the whole mineral thing some say they don’t use them and see no reason and the dealer seems to say they helped the bromine work." --The mineral cartridge, whether it be on a Nature II cartridge on a swimming pool or a Spa Frog on a hot tub, is designed to lessen the need for the harsher chemical (chlorine or bromine) as the mineral (primary active ingredient: silver) will also sanitize the water. W/o getting too scientific, the way I explain it is that the mineral is a "passive" sanitizer (keeping the water clean when you are not in it) and the chlorine or bromine or whatever is the active sanitizer (keeping the water clean when you get in and introduce sweat, dead skin cells, lotions, etc into the water).
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You can go for 3-4-5 maybe more days pretty easy by raising the CL level to say 10-15 maybe 20 PPM before you leave and allow an hour of off gassing min. Then turn the temp down a bit and close it up. 2 weeks is different, you have to have a visitor a couple, three times. Get a friend to come over and use the tub then heavy dose when they leave. Measured doses in pill bottles works good here. And allow them 1 guest......LOL If the water gets sluggish, drain half.
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Thanks everyone great input.
I have dosed it up good 10-20 PPM and took off for a week and most of the time it works fine. I did have an occasion I might have not loaded it enough or stayed away too long and came home to the tub skunked. We are kind of new to the neighborhood and do have one neighbor we could ask that would be more than happy to help us out and premeasured in a pill bottle is a great suggestion. Family members that I would really trust are about an hour away so that wouldn’t work.
Ok here is a crazy idea I had last night. I have taken apart both the Mineral and Spa Frog cartridges there is even a video on line showing how it’s done. It is fairly easy as just a couple small snaps hold the lid on and once you figure out how to trim the tab a little the tops go on and off easy.
So. I take the cap off my @ease cartridge that’s good for a month pour out the contents and store them air tight. If I’m going away for a week I dump a forth of them in the cartridge 2 weeks half the contents etc.
Doing that would let me use my dichlor as I do now daily and allow me to go away for a week 4 times a year with just buying one cartridge. If I did have someone that wanted to come use the tub when I was gone I wouldn’t have to worry about them getting in with a high level. If the dispensing works good there is no reason when I get back home I couldn’t expect to test the water and jump right in.
I guess I will just use up the minerals cartridges I have then for now also.
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Thought I would try an experiment. I opened the @ease cartridge and poured it out it holds just about 1 cup of the DCDMH chlorine. I poured one quarter back in the cartridge. I tested the tub and the numbers were all perfect and I plugged the cartridge back in set on setting 3.
I will watch it daily for a week and see what happens with normal usage. If it reads low I will bump it up to setting 4. if it seems high I will lower it to setting 2.
If I can get a week or more out of it I might have my solution for going away for a week without worries.
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Rock and roll.....
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Rock and roll.....
:)
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Well I tried out my idea of opening the cartridge and using a quarter of the contents for an alternate source of sanitizing when I’m away for a week or so and it has been a week and it seemed to work ok. Just like when I had the frog bromine cartridge setting the dispense rate is an iffy deal. I tried setting 3 because I knew we wouldn’t be using the tub much last week when I tried this and that didn’t seem to dispense much at all so I opened it to 5 and it worked better. I think if I go away for a week I will add ¼ of the DCDMH chlorine and set the thing wide open to 6. I would rather come home to it a bit high than not enough.
Just messing around with this for a week again really makes me happy for the daily dose method with the dichlor and watching the CYA and PH method. I almost never have to touch the PH and it is so simple to drain the tub down 8 inches and refill once or twice between water changes to keep the CYA in line (water is cheap).
I think everyone eventually figures out what method works for them and my only problem was leaving the tub for a week or two and now I have a solution for that.
If anyone tries this based on my recommendation here opening the cartridge is no big deal just jam a thin screwdriver in one of the locking tabs and break it out. Use plyers to twist off the little plastic nubs. I would highly suggest you do this outside in a well ventilated location. There really isn’t any odor but you might get a little dust off the chlorine just like you would with any granular product and you don’t want to breath that in. I poured mine off into an empty dichlor container that I clearly labeled what it was. Same way with pouring a weekly dose back in use normal common sense when around chemicals. When I get home from vacation I will pull it out and take a look inside and if it isn’t all used up just put it back in and finish it up.
I’m pretty happy right now with the plan I have and the only thing I would consider ever trying now would possibly switching to salt and a chlorine generator that you hang in the tub. But I can’t see the point in going there at this time.
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good stuff here. just a short note for bromine users on this topic -- with an ozone generator of sufficient output, one can do pretty well with just leaving bromide salts in the water and shocking before you leave town. i've gone two weeks with this method -- my plan consisted of
1. you get a small amount of bromine conversion just from the ozone, if sufficient bromide salts are present.
2. when you shock to 20ppm or so FC equivalent, (1) above produces a very nice, slow decay of sanitizer. I've measured less than 20% in my spa, and when the levels get really low, the decay rate turns very asymptotic because ozone generator will do a pretty good job of keeping up with "no load". of course, if you get some contaminant in there (like a spider or bee or dust from a wind storm...) then it won't keep up..
3. if you dose with a small amount of ahh-some, this will also help the sanitizer demand. yes I've tried it. that stuff has been tested to kill biofilms outright -- though not as a replacement for CL by any means, but it has a verified kill rate.
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good stuff here. just a short note for bromine users on this topic -- with an ozone generator of sufficient output, one can do pretty well with just leaving bromide salts in the water and shocking before you leave town. i've gone two weeks with this method -- my plan consisted of
1. you get a small amount of bromine conversion just from the ozone, if sufficient bromide salts are present.
2. when you shock to 20ppm or so FC equivalent, (1) above produces a very nice, slow decay of sanitizer. I've measured less than 20% in my spa, and when the levels get really low, the decay rate turns very asymptotic because ozone generator will do a pretty good job of keeping up with "no load". of course, if you get some contaminant in there (like a spider or bee or dust from a wind storm...) then it won't keep up..
3. if you dose with a small amount of ahh-some, this will also help the sanitizer demand. yes I've tried it. that stuff has been tested to kill biofilms outright -- though not as a replacement for CL by any means, but it has a verified kill rate.
When we were still running bromine that’s pretty much what I did relying on the bromine bank to take us thru a week or two without attention. Never tried the Ahh-Some product though.
That may be the plus to bromine but along with being allergic to it that same plus was a negative with normal maintaining of the tub and after shocking getting those high readings.
I know a lot of people just add the starter bromine after a water change to set a level and then let the tablets do their thing and shock when needed and never seem to have a problem. Maybe being new to it I watched to closely and could never keep a smooth level to the sanitizer like I can with the dichlor now.
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yea i've run dichlor then bleach too and yes its really a matter of preference. Glad to see you're dialed in with dichlor. out of curiosity are you switching to bleach to keep CYA levels down? no argument that CL will decay faster than Br esp. when ozone is in use. ozone eats CL. I've slain the bromine shock monster as well -- ironically its a problem only for well maintained spas that don't need to be shocked... you end up goosing it too much and then it can be DAYS before things calm down enough to get in! if you your spa is well maintained (I even use the serum stuff that ahh-some is selling now. let me tell you it works) then you just learn not to shock very high when you leave, and when you get back you have like .5ppm or some just barely measurable amount. you'd be surprised at the spa mfgs and retailers that do not understand this.
and yes to the starter routine as well, for those of us running bromine. i don't like floaters or tabs -- just put the required amount of salts in there to begin with, and then use bleach for the oxidizer. pretty cheap -- no expensive metal cartridges either! this way the bromine spa becomes just like a CL spa in terms of adding sanitizer.
after having discovered ahh-some frankly things are just so much easier. for a variety of reasons, sanitizer level can go to zero or a spa was shipped with contaminants, whatever and bingo you've got bad guys. and I'm not making this up, ahh-some is the real deal it will release stuff you never knew was in there --- and I've proven this on a well maintained spa as well, after I got my manufacturer-installed biofilms under control!
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yea i've run dichlor then bleach too and yes its really a matter of preference. Glad to see you're dialed in with dichlor. out of curiosity are you switching to bleach to keep CYA levels down? no argument that CL will decay faster than Br esp. when ozone is in use. ozone eats CL. I've slain the bromine shock monster as well -- ironically its a problem only for well maintained spas that don't need to be shocked... you end up goosing it too much and then it can be DAYS before things calm down enough to get in! if you your spa is well maintained (I even use the serum stuff that ahh-some is selling now. let me tell you it works) then you just learn not to shock very high when you leave, and when you get back you have like .5ppm or some just barely measurable amount. you'd be surprised at the spa mfgs and retailers that do not understand this.
and yes to the starter routine as well, for those of us running bromine. i don't like floaters or tabs -- just put the required amount of salts in there to begin with, and then use bleach for the oxidizer. pretty cheap -- no expensive metal cartridges either! this way the bromine spa becomes just like a CL spa in terms of adding sanitizer.
after having discovered ahh-some frankly things are just so much easier. for a variety of reasons, sanitizer level can go to zero or a spa was shipped with contaminants, whatever and bingo you've got bad guys. and I'm not making this up, ahh-some is the real deal it will release stuff you never knew was in there --- and I've proven this on a well maintained spa as well, after I got my manufacturer-installed biofilms under control!
I’m taking a little different take on CYA control and doing it with water alone. The solution to pollution is dilution method, lol. When my CYA hits 100 I drain off about 8” of water and refill. I have my drain plumbed right into my waste water line and I have both hot and cold water right next to the tub. If I’m going to be using the tub right away I can add in hot water if not cold and let the tub heat it. My hot water source is 40 gallons so I could easily add as much as 60 gallons if I wanted to. I can do the water exchange in 10 –15 minutes. It is a nice way to do it in the winter when it is too cold out to mess with a total drain and fill. Stretches the water out longer so in the end I figure it is about the same amount of water used per year.
One other trick I have been using that ties in with this. When I clean the tub weekly I have a 2” pool hose with a 3’ pvc pipe added to the end. I stick it in the tub fill it with water and use it as a siphon to suck up any sand or stuff that might be sitting in the foot well that the filter wont get. That drops the water an inch or so and gives a little extra water exchange and is a easy cheap way to make a tub sweeper.
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nice system you got there, and the constant water changes have other benefits as well besides CYA accumulation. no substitute for clean water thats for sure. You could even use straight bleach as well, target 50pmm CYA and do even better. Ive put in a dedicated, valved drain line that empties into a french drain, and wished for a dedicated hot water supply line... For those of us with portable spas and no convenient hot water supply nearby, the "dichlor then switch to bleach" method for CL spas, and pure bleach for bromine spas works really well to extend the drain interval just from standpoint of CYA moderating sanitizer strength. I get an additional boost from using the periodic serum watercare maintenance treatments as well.
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nice system you got there, and the constant water changes have other benefits as well besides CYA accumulation. no substitute for clean water thats for sure. You could even use straight bleach as well, target 50pmm CYA and do even better. Ive put in a dedicated, valved drain line that empties into a french drain, and wished for a dedicated hot water supply line... For those of us with portable spas and no convenient hot water supply nearby, the "dichlor then switch to bleach" method for CL spas, and pure bleach for bromine spas works really well to extend the drain interval just from standpoint of CYA moderating sanitizer strength. I get an additional boost from using the periodic serum watercare maintenance treatments as well.
When I put water to the outside tub area on the deck I connected to both my hot and cold supply line inside the house thru a mixer valve I can set for temp inside the house. I mounted the hose bib about 6 foot off the deck out of kids reach and put a quick connect fitting on there for the hose. I also added a quick connect to a shower head I can pop on for an outdoor shower. I leave the mixer set normally to lukewarm for the shower. If I need to fill the tub I use cold and for a part fill I often use straight hot. Hot I also find cleans the filter a lot quicker for some reason. We live on the great lakes and get temps as low as -30 in the winter. The hot water is a blessing when it comes to getting ice off the cover or the deck. Little hot water and it shovels right off. One thing I made was a short hose about 10 foot long. A must for winter use it’s long enough to reach the whole deck and easy to get all the water out when done. Nothing worse than a 50 foot hose coiled up in a snow bank.
People are amazed we have a deck shower and it was only about 50 bucks more than a cold water line would have been.
We pay for our water and also sewer. And I asked about a discount for filling a tub. They do it for pools but you have to use 1000 gallons or more to get a discount. I figure I’m paying full price for the water why make a mess of the yard dumping it so I send it back thru the sewer line. They said no problem. So that’s a nice feature having a quick drain setup and easy fill.
I haven’t tried the serum or equivalent products yet as of today the tub is one year old.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY Hot Tub.